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Wrasslin' Thread 20XX |OT| New Age WrestleGAF
- Thread starter Bullet Club
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Bullet Club
Banned
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Jut give Moose that damn title already
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Bullet Club
Banned
Bullet Club
Banned
Soodanim
Member
I’ve never seen anything like that before.
Except the end. I’ve grown to hate that spot, to the point where it retroactively ruins Taker doing it in an old clip from the Invasion period.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Corny hated this one. Shocker. To be fair he has some points.
The funny thing is at one point Corny kind of liked Darby. Guess that's over.
NickFire
Member
I'm genuinely perplexed by the live crowd last night at Raw. Is it just people cheering for anyone after no live shows for so long? Or is this reflective of the majority of the remaining audience? And yeah, I'm referring to cheering for Goldberg getting the title shot at SS.
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I am too. The last I saw of Goldberg he can barely do his moves anymore. Although I can't tell if the fans like it or not. I mean they used to cheer in the 80s when Verne or Bruno would come back even though they didn't have it anymore. (Although to be fair they were still more athletic than 99% of the crowd.)
Dthomp
Member
i fully believe reactions were just people haven’t gone to shows in so long. Goldberg should have been boo’d out of the arena, Cena getting a bigger pop then any other time he’s ever been on tv. People pretending they give two shits about budget cosplay hurricane Nikki.
i was so confused, cause if I looked and watched last night on mute I’d think this was just another shit Raw, but crowd reaction was like it was Mania. But hey at least we got Keith Lee back
and immediately looks like a scrubI think they would have been better off if Hardy was the one to answer Lashley.(Leading to the Goldberg stuff.) Also they could have done an angle where Joe comes out at the beginning of the Kross match and unleashes Lee on Kross.(And he could do commentary while Lee and Kross are fighting.)i fully believe reactions were just people haven’t gone to shows in so long. Goldberg should have been boo’d out of the arena, Cena getting a bigger pop then any other time he’s ever been on tv. People pretending they give two shits about budget cosplay hurricane Nikki.
i was so confused, cause if I looked and watched last night on mute I’d think this was just another shit Raw, but crowd reaction was like it was Mania. But hey at least we got Keith Lee back
Dthomp
Member
I had completely forgot about the nonsense of having their NXT champion lose to Jeff Hardy who has only won like 40% of his matches this year. Blows my mind, great way to debut Kross....
NickFire
Member
Oh yeah I forgot about that doozy. Talk about absurd booking. I don't watch NXT, so what I leaned about its current product last night = their champ is so pathetic he loses to Jeff Hardy on his Raw debut. Its one thing for Keith Lee to lose to the Raw champ, but to have an actual champ lose to Jeff Hardy in their debut is just so bad I assume he is about to drop his belt and be fired.
Sorry that I reminded everybody
Didn't he lose in under 2 minutes or something? Hell, I expect Jeff to be gone after his contract is up so why have him slay the dragon? (You could have done a whole program of Keith Lee upping it a notch and coming back for Kross, especially after Joe scouted him for the task and gave him pointers. It was such a missed opportunity.)
Soodanim
Member
Yet another match where he would have been happy with a finish but then they drag it out. I don’t watch AEW, but if the finish was as he says then they jumped the shark in favour of weird shit
It's pretty much as Corny described. I mean Darby hit the stairs in the ring so hard they bent a little so that looked brutal. The skateboard shot didn't look that good but that drop onto the coffin while it looked good also looked super dangerous. (I mean if Darby was a little off he comes down on the edge of the casket and probably breaks a bunch of bones. He instead landed on top of Page which couldn't have been fun.) Corny is kind of big about not putting yourself in a wheelchair. (Of course seeing the shape Dynamite ended up in or the shape Foley and Angle are in I mostly agree with him on that.)
Dthomp
Member
I didn't follow Darby before AEW, but just the last year of bumps that are completely unnecessary (outside of it's all he's good for), no way he has a long career there. Jeff Hardy is a great example of a guy that pushed it too hard with some of the bumps, but at least most were held back for PPVs or major angles. Allen putting himself in danger is a weekly thing. Maybe it's the only way he knows how to get a reaction, but look at his partner Sting who never took anything dangerous and wrestled beyond safe and was over his whole career. I guess he needs the hardcore gimmick because he can't keep up with Jungle Boy who is the young smaller guy that should be pushed to the moon.
DKehoe
Member
I actually think he's pretty good without the stunt stuff. He moves really well. I wish he didn't rely on the hardcore spots so much. He's been a big draw for them so doesn't need to be putting himself in danger all the time.
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Dthomp
Member
Fair enough, I think for me there is way too much of the hardcore crap in AEW. I'm sure Khan loved him some ECW in the day, and probably likes offering something for every wrestling fan....but maybe it's just cause I'm not a teen anymore, that shit doesn't do it for me. Give me a chair shot here and there, an occasional table spot and cage matches for grudges but for me there just isn't a place on a real wrestling promotion for that crap. They have to have it cause Moxley is completely useless without it along with Darby, although if he can actually go, I don't see why they don't push for him to just be the same edgy character without the dumb spots. AEW has some of the best in ring talent (Well WWE would if they let them), no reason for gimmick crap, lets just enjoy good storytelling and matches.
I mean their World Champion, and should be cornerstone of their roster is perpetually hurt based on reports and instead of getting rest he's out there putting on hardcore matches with trash like Sami Callihan for 1200 viewers, you don't have to prove anything Kenny, get back to 6 star classics and stop swimming with the gutter trash.
Fox Mulder
Member
Kross has been booked like a monster beating everyone his whole time in NXT and had a big entrance and his hot wife. They called him up to Raw and did none of that. It’s hilarious how awful this company is.
Dthomp
Member
Yeah he was undefeated for a year and a half, stripped him of his wife, but kept the weird music with him just slowly walking, and then jobbed in 2 minutes to a lower midcarder....
DKehoe
Member
Yeh, I'm with you on that. I think some hardcore stuff to climax a feud can be good. But when people are just doing it to do it then it just detracts from everything else.
Omega seems to have this thing where he wants to prove he can do every style. But hardcore is the least interesting style of all to me. I'd rather see him stick to what he does best.
Dthomp
Member
Are you guys sure you're not Cornette fans? You guys really sound like him
I actually agree with some of his thoughts, but that's likely due to being 40 and growing up with older wrestling. My issue is his stupid fucking persona he clings too, it makes him look like an idiot, but it keeps the neckbeard crowd that likes him so he'll always have an audience no matter how many companies he got ran out of for being unoriginal or FAR behind the times. Like if you could take his ideas and some of his takes and just remove the insane hate boner he has for AEW you'd have a respectable voice, but those likely don't pay the bills like being a shock jock equivalent.
Soodanim
Member
(I know that wasn’t aimed at me but I’ll respond anyway)Are you guys sure you're not Cornette fans? You guys really sound like him
I grew up watching Austin and Rock when I could from the few times I managed to record the odd PPV when it aired on free UK TV (I remember watching Backlash and the tape running out before the end). I used to watch videos with my friend we played the PS1/2 games religiously and followed as best we could.
After that era ended I stopped watching, but I tried to watch a few times over the years. There weren’t any characters anymore, no one that stood out. No one had promos that did anything from what I saw. Everything is an obvious downgrade, and especially WWE is over clean with not even chair shots but more camera cuts that I could keep count of. Cena is the only that has grown on me over the years from that era.
AEW appears, and has these promises. A chance at doing things differently. “Sounds interesting, I’ll have a look when I can.” Definitely no big stars, all very samey lightweight jobber looking guys. See Orange Cassidy mentioned on Reddit as over, look for clips. Laugh at the stupidity, then realise that’s the gimmick. The whole time. In “Sports based wrestling” or whatever they called it.
Watch old clips to wash away the shit new stuff, then see shoot interviews. Eventually find Russo, then learn of the war with some guy named Jim Cornette. Watch his side of the argument. Watch a bit more, then find podcast clips. Start listening to the podcast.
For me the podcast is what they’ve had other people write and say it is: they explain all the things that used to make it good from a behind the curtain perspective that are now lost. The psychology of the matches, how they do promos and storylines etc. I like that perspective on anything anyway, but applying it to ongoing product for direct comparison especially interesting for me. Then you add in all of the history and stories and it makes for a great listen. Even little stories like how Paul Heyman taught him that if you exchanged a plane ticket that was bought for you enough times it would push the method of purchase off the receipt/whatever, and they would refund to any old card so you could refund the expensive flight, take a cheap flight, and pocket the difference
I think what gets overlooked by people who don’t listen is that he gives praise when it’s warranted. He might have a high bar, but having seen clips of the era he’s from and worked in (the Flair documentary I posted about a page or two back, for example) you can see that they’re worlds apart. There are matches he likes, and there are matches he likes until they go too far. There are matches that he dislikes, and there are matches him and Brian disagree on. People say there’s an AEW hate boner, but they currently watch NXT too and give that just as much criticism. It’s more noticeable for AEW not only because they claimed it was going to be the opposite, but also because you have Kenny Omega who from his old school, insider point of view is a wrestling school dropout who doesn’t respect the business and (reportedly) displays the tell tale signs of people who didn’t go to wrestling school to do it properly, like happy feet (hence Twinkletoes). Or Jericho, who was once a top guy but is now past and it just pushing his not very good band at every opportunity. It’s easier to notice that stuff.
I definitely agree with a lot of what he says, like overdoing the finishers. That is the video game bullshit we used to do. No KOs, infinite finishers everywhere. It’s not just finishers, there’s a lack of selling across the board and it contributes to a lack of consistency. It goes back to why it used to be better. It’s the little things that add up. If people took a Stone Cold Stunner then immediately got up and carried on then it would kill it.
I recently saw this picture on Reddit. Are the guys on top actually AEW wrestlers or is it a joke? If they are, no wonder Corny says they don’t look like men. I don’t watch WWE either but I know which ones look like wrestling stars and which ones don’t.
Dthomp
Member
(I know that wasn’t aimed at me but I’ll respond anyway)
I grew up watching Austin and Rock when I could from the few times I managed to record the odd PPV when it aired on free UK TV (I remember watching Backlash and the tape running out before the end). I used to watch videos with my friend we played the PS1/2 games religiously and followed as best we could.
After that era ended I stopped watching, but I tried to watch a few times over the years. There weren’t any characters anymore, no one that stood out. No one had promos that did anything from what I saw. Everything is an obvious downgrade, and especially WWE is over clean with not even chair shots but more camera cuts that I could keep count of. Cena is the only that has grown on me over the years from that era.
AEW appears, and has these promises. A chance at doing things differently. “Sounds interesting, I’ll have a look when I can.” Definitely no big stars, all very samey lightweight jobber looking guys. See Orange Cassidy mentioned on Reddit as over, look for clips. Laugh at the stupidity, then realise that’s the gimmick. The whole time. In “Sports based wrestling” or whatever they called it.
Watch old clips to wash away the shit new stuff, then see shoot interviews. Eventually find Russo, then learn of the war with some guy named Jim Cornette. Watch his side of the argument. Watch a bit more, then find podcast clips. Start listening to the podcast.
For me the podcast is what they’ve had other people write and say it is: they explain all the things that used to make it good from a behind the curtain perspective that are now lost. The psychology of the matches, how they do promos and storylines etc. I like that perspective on anything anyway, but applying it to ongoing product for direct comparison especially interesting for me. Then you add in all of the history and stories and it makes for a great listen. Even little stories like how Paul Heyman taught him that if you exchanged a plane ticket that was bought for you enough times it would push the method of purchase off the receipt/whatever, and they would refund to any old card so you could refund the expensive flight, take a cheap flight, and pocket the difference
I think what gets overlooked by people who don’t listen is that he gives praise when it’s warranted. He might have a high bar, but having seen clips of the era he’s from and worked in (the Flair documentary I posted about a page or two back, for example) you can see that they’re worlds apart. There are matches he likes, and there are matches he likes until they go too far. There are matches that he dislikes, and there are matches him and Brian disagree on. People say there’s an AEW hate boner, but they currently watch NXT too and give that just as much criticism. It’s more noticeable for AEW not only because they claimed it was going to be the opposite, but also because you have Kenny Omega who from his old school, insider point of view is a wrestling school dropout who doesn’t respect the business and (reportedly) displays the tell tale signs of people who didn’t go to wrestling school to do it properly, like happy feet (hence Twinkletoes). Or Jericho, who was once a top guy but is now past and it just pushing his not very good band at every opportunity. It’s easier to notice that stuff.
I definitely agree with a lot of what he says, like overdoing the finishers. That is the video game bullshit we used to do. No KOs, infinite finishers everywhere. It’s not just finishers, there’s a lack of selling across the board and it contributes to a lack of consistency. It goes back to why it used to be better. It’s the little things that add up. If people took a Stone Cold Stunner then immediately got up and carried on then it would kill it.
I recently saw this picture on Reddit. Are the guys on top actually AEW wrestlers or is it a joke? If they are, no wonder Corny says they don’t look like men. I don’t watch WWE either but I know which ones look like wrestling stars and which ones don’t.
Too be fair, this version of The Young Bucks (Pictured with Kenny Omega) Are supposed to be beyond arrogant douches who dress and do this shit to annoy the fans. They are easily one of the top 3 tag teams in the world. Kenny is kind of in the same boat at least when he shows up on AEW TV, trying to be annoying and unlikable, because anything less and he'll be cheered, he's too good in the ring. Every complaint Corny has about Omega was shit from over 10-15? years ago when Kenny was getting into the business and his early indy days when he did whatever stupid shit that would get him booked and over. There's a reason he was IWGP champion at a time where the belt rarely ever changed hands.
I will say with comparing the pictures, that is exactly why WWE gets more grief then AEW. TYB and Omega regularly sneak by with wins by every cheatery way possible...after making the other guys look like absolute stars. Like Edge said recently about him and Angle together, the goal was both guys/teams coming out looking good. Where with Roman and the Usos, they rarely get anything close to a beatdown, cheat and then stand tall in the ring (More so Roman). Nobody that has feuded with Roman for the title during this run comes out of the feud looking good, they get built up, fed to him, and then go right back to not mattering, it's a terrible booking strategy and a big reason our 2nd biggest WWE PPV will be headlined by a nothing feud from nowhere with Cena/Roman (Cause Cena don't need to earn it), and Goldberg/Lashley (Also...how does Berg get this?). AEW is lining up it's next PPV to be headlined by a 1yr built storyline with Hangman and Kenny...and honestly, got no clue who's coming out of that one (That's good booking).
As far as your Stars point, we will never see a time again where guys are sustainably as over as the Rock and SCSA. Becky Lynch is god damn close, but WWE tends to screw up with women so bad, and the only other 2 that were that level of over were Daniel Bryan (That they tried to kill his momentum at every point) and Rusev (Cause he wasn't supposed to be over....). I'm not an OC fan, but I get why people cheer him, why wife thinks the whole lazy character is funny, and I'd take him any day over Santino or some of the comedy guys WWE has suffered us with. I'm hoping that at the AEW PPV we get Bryan Danielson or CM PUnk just to hear what a pop sounds like today.
DKehoe
Member
Nah, Cornette is pretty dull these days. It's a pity because he's a funny guy who has a great knowledge of wrestling history but he's locked himself into this gimmick.Are you guys sure you're not Cornette fans? You guys really sound like him
Cornette's thing before, back when he'd go off on one about TNA or whatever, would be breaking down why something doesn't work. And he'd provide a pretty good perspective and explain details you might not have picked up on. But his hatred of guys like Omega and the Young Bucks (or at least his need to play up to that perception for the sake of the audience he's cultivated) means he's ranting about how something's not working when it clearly is. AEW is selling out arenas, drawing good ratings and signing improved TV deals. So all he's really doing is telling a bunch of people what they want to hear. He can not like those guys, it's totally fine for that to be his personal opinion. But he acts like they're "killing the business" when they clearly aren't. A lot of those people just talk about wanting wrestling to be realistic, but it's not like they're talking about wanting UWFi or something like that, they really just want wrestling to be like the 80s or 90s stuff they grew up on. But if you look back at those times there are people saying the exact kind of stuff that's now being said: that it's unrealistic, it's killing the business, people are just gymnasts instead of tough guys. It's all a cycle that's been going on for more than a century.
Here's Farmer Burns in 1914 essentially calling the wrestlers of that period spot monkeys
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Ludicrous Display
Neo Member
Cornette is still good value when it comes to coining nicknames or a turn of phrase, and occasionally he breaks down a big match well, but I had to stop listening to clips of his rants a while back. You'll hear him constantly bang on about how women shouldn't use weapons, how dare Becky Lynch get pregnant, wrestling had more women fans back in his day because they all wanted to fuck the wrestlers etc etc. It's painful listening to that shite.
His co-host doesn't help, Brian I believe he's called, he comes across as a rather unlikeable chap who agrees with Cornette 99% of the time.
His co-host doesn't help, Brian I believe he's called, he comes across as a rather unlikeable chap who agrees with Cornette 99% of the time.
I will add this, Corny will stick with something when he's off way too long. I mean just to bring up a few he tried to defend that whole "Bianca is Painful small" and he really doesn't get the Miz. (Which is a classic bad guy. Plus the fact the guy is one of the best bridge ambassadors they've had in the past 20 years. Not sure of the exact term I can expand on that if anybody cares.) Oh one of the worst was somebody asked if Andre and Big Show were at the same time who'd be more important in wrestling history. He kept saying Andre's because he was first so another example of him having a blind spot for a classic guy. (The answer is pretty much Big Show because he was just as big, more athletic, had a personality and could speak English.)
Soodanim
Member
He's definitely a stubborn old geezer, there's no doubt about that. Stuck in his ways, for better or worse.
Andre vs Big Show is a weird question to me, because by default - like you say - Show has more going for him because things have moved on, but that's unfair to the older talent in so many cases. I never heard that question, but I can only assume Corny compared their careers and went off the impact each one had. Andre was the legend who was right at the top, the goliath for others to try and conquer. Hell, Big Show, formally known as The Giant after Andre, takes part in the Andre the Giant memorial Battle Royal. It's like putting Bruce Lee against MMA fighters of today. Sure, the new guys would win, but direct comparisons don't make much sense anyway because everyone is both a product of their time and those that came before them. Standing on the shoulders of giants, and all that. I might be wrong, but wasn't Andre a genuinely good worker before his growth got the better of him? Maybe that's part of it. I dunno.
What do you mean by bridge ambassadors?
I actually find that Brian is the one to keep Jim in check a lot of the time, it's only the rare occasion when even Jim says something to the effect of "I thought you were the nice one, today you're making me look good".
You all have much more insight than me on current product, so it's good to hear the other side of things sometimes.
Guys that can "bridge" to a regular audience, IE not wrestling fans. Put another way guys who can go on the talk show circuit like Conan or the Tonight show and connect with the audience and click. I've seen Miz and Big Show both on Conan and they were great at engaging with the audience and getting them into it, they just had the right personality for that. Mick and the Rock were also both good at that. A lot of the guys wrestling fans would like wouldn't be the guy to make that outreach. I'd expect if you sent someone like HHH it wouldn't work. I guess what I'm saying is even though back in the days wrestling fans loved Ric flair and Steamboat if you needed someone to play up say Wrestlemania you'd want someone like Hogan or Savage.
Ludicrous Display
Neo Member
The Miz does look like a frog though, he's spot on about that.
Very true. Miz is really good at the chicken shit heel role which I'm surprised he doesn't seem to get.(Since it is a classic.)
Bullet Club
Banned
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
It will be huge if he makes a comeback when AEW goes to Chicago.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
You would think WWE's competition with AEW would light a fire in them, but nope, they're still making stupid decisions creatively.
They're literally calling up NXT talent just to bury them on Raw. lol
Vince is killing his own product and RAW is just being used to make talent for AEW.
They're literally calling up NXT talent just to bury them on Raw. lol
Vince is killing his own product and RAW is just being used to make talent for AEW.
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NickFire
Member
He is a huge name who has been away on his own terms. Those are the great kind of former WWE signings. No disrespect to Miro though - he should never have been let go and AEW is lucky he was available.
To be blunt I honestly don't care since I was never a fan of his.(His fans ruined him for me.) That being said I realize how huge of a name he is in wrestling and that would be a HUGE get for AEW.
Dthomp
Member
Punk would be HUGE! for AEW. Even if it's only a 1-2 year deal. That is ALOT of eyes from the last WWE era to tune in and check it out. If at the PPV in Chicago the pop will be outstanding, now if they really want a moment they debut Punk at the PPV only to be cut off by Bryan Danielson and fans might die from yelling and excitement. Make it happen Tony!
Not to mention Punk returning anywhere opens the door slightly for his wife to return to wrestling
That would be mind blowing. Of course I could always make the crack that if some how WWE got them both signed up and coming out at SummerSlam I'd expect them to lose their return in a tag match to Lucha House Party or something.Punk would be HUGE! for AEW. Even if it's only a 1-2 year deal. That is ALOT of eyes from the last WWE era to tune in and check it out. If at the PPV in Chicago the pop will be outstanding, now if they really want a moment they debut Punk at the PPV only to be cut off by Bryan Danielson and fans might die from yelling and excitement. Make it happen Tony!
Not to mention Punk returning anywhere opens the door slightly for his wife to return to wrestling
Dthomp
Member
God damnit don’t go getting my hopes up…
Cool, but his name is Brian Danielson. The guy that did that tweet should call him that now.