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[genjiZERO]

Didn't you go to Israel semi-recently? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Yes, I went there the Christmas before last. My girlfriend's brother is a foreign aid worker in Gaza. I didn't go to Gaza, but spent a fair amount of time in the West Bank and the occupied parts of East Jerusalem. I think that's why I'm staring to become too emotional about the whole thing.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Yes, I went there the Christmas before last. My girlfriend's brother is a foreign aid worker in Gaza. I didn't go to Gaza, but spent a fair amount of time in the West Bank and the occupied parts of East Jerusalem. I think that's why I'm staring to become too emotional about the whole thing.

I know a gazan who came a few yards from being blown up in the most recent war, a palestinian in nabulus who can't travel anywhere without being harassed at check points and Israelis who live in fear of rockets and being called to war where they have a high chance of being killed.

It sucks

 

[thespot84]

Yes, I went there the Christmas before last. My girlfriend's brother is a foreign aid worker in Gaza. I didn't go to Gaza, but spent a fair amount of time in the West Bank and the occupied parts of East Jerusalem. I think that's why I'm staring to become too emotional about the whole thing.

Props to you for checking yourself, but be sure to realize what it was you'd fallen prey to. Hatred is and always will be a lever. A lever that provides those in power with a means of keeping it, or those who want it a means to achieve it. The logical leap from Israeli policy is bad to zionism is bad to jews are bad, while obviously flawed, is a relatively short leap, and is easily co-opted by those using it to support a narrative.

This is not to trivialize any of the injustices happening in the middle east, only to showcase how our perspectives are often shaped, often without our consent, by the narratives espoused by those in power or seeking it.

I know it's possible to turn small atrocities into blind hatred because I see it as a Jew, among fellow Jews. While your logic was flawed, there is a chance that that Jewish girl you might have dated would hold similar prejudices against Palestinians as the antisemites hold against Jews. I see it as a natural human tactic to dehumanize the other, since it is such a convenient tool to justify bad deeds.

I see antisemitism on the rise, and while the conflict in the middle east may contribute to it, I think it's helpful to examine the narratives that are produced by both sides and the effect they have on us. To me, the fact that those who preach hate against Jews already have thousands of years of material to use is telling.

 

[Toxi]

Some politicians around the world deny that what is happening in Europe is anti-Semitism. It is, they say, merely a reaction to the actions of the state of Israel, to the continuing conflict with the Palestinians. But the policies of the state of Israel are not made in kosher supermarkets in Paris or in Jewish cultural institutions in Brussels and Mumbai. The targets in these cities were not Israeli. They were Jewish.

Yep.

Anti-semitism will not stop with Israel's atrocities, because hate does not care about cause and effect. Hate is irrational and finds justifications for itself. Just look at scientific racism that contributed to the Holocaust.

 

[orochi91]

one state? they're will be issues with integration which will reflect badly on any jewish majority

The problem of anti-semtism goes far beyond the Israel conflict. That should clearly be solved but this idea it will cause peace and the end of a millenias long hatred people are mistaken.

Even with the antisemtism rise being cause by Israel's actions it doesn't flow from that to hating a person for being Jewish.

Integration would be a good idea; painful, but a step Israelis will have to take if they are sincere with making peace with the Palestinians.

Naturally, antisemitism will never completely go away, but dealing with the Palestinian crisis in a tactful manner will win them some much needed PR among EU and the ME.

And unfortunately, some Jewish folks abroad with no ties to Israel will always face potential backlash over the actions of Israel, since Israel is the face of Judaism.

It's akin to Muslims being attacked over some mystical notion that they act as one under the monolith that is Islam.

 

[thespot84]

Yep.

Anti-semitism will not stop with Israel's atrocities, because hate does not care about cause and effect. Hate is irrational and finds justifications for itself.

I think hate is perfectly rational, actually. Evolution provides us with the recipe, specifically biochemical responses to our environment, in social dynamics, that promote trust for the in groups and promotes distrust for the out groups.

Leverage those naturally occurring tendencies with the more complex dynamics of power and hate is the logical conclusion, not the irrational one. Any peaceful society lives in spite of hate, not apart from it.

Examining the driving forces behind hate provide us with better insights to forge better social norms and policies to quell it further. Hate is a symptom. To call it self-justifying is tautological, rather we should be more interested in its root causes, and not get distracted by the minor sea changes stemming from current events.

 

[akira28]

"The Jew must live as they are, but not be allowed to prosper."

Or something like that. The tough love understanding for being the chosen of God but also the killers of our lord and saviour, etc etc. Like a standing policy since the early ages, back when they were still trying to decide if they should convert all the Jews, or kill them.

They decided on neither.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

The thing that always bothers me about criticism of Israel is they always get framed in ancient antisemetic tropes.

For instance, I deplore the more indiscriminate bombing campaigns of Israel in the Gaza and Lebanon conflict but this criticism is often mixed with old blood libel type rumors with it being described as the intentional killing of children when just decrying the lack of clear targeting ends up killing many innocent children and should be condemned.

The strong US-Israel relationship is something to criticize but its so often turned into the "jews running the world" conspiracy and dual loyalty accusations thrown at Jews

The horrible settler policy is turned into a plot of the jews to greedly and secretly steal land through nefarious ends (shyster tropes) rather than as a straightforward occupation and annexation of a foreign territory which is worthy of condemnation on its own.

The everyday sliding of legitment complaints into the clothes of old school antisemtism does no service to those trying to end the occupation and I think contribute to this problem in Europe.

Its not like these issues can't be debated without these tropes, go to any jewish group and you'll hear arguments that don't slip into these even while discussing the same issues.

But to often when these concerns are raised they concerns are brushed aside and the non-intentionally malicious but still antisemetic comments come out. People just don't care that they're repeating centuries old stereotypes and think any mention of them is an attempt to silence the discussion or justification for actions which its usually not.

 

[Crash Station]

Yes, I went there the Christmas before last. My girlfriend's brother is a foreign aid worker in Gaza. I didn't go to Gaza, but spent a fair amount of time in the West Bank and the occupied parts of East Jerusalem. I think that's why I'm staring to become too emotional about the whole thing.

Understandable. Though I'm sure you can also understand how prejudices like that can gradually grow into something more. Even with entertainment, you could say stuff like "I don't know if I could play The Last of Us because it was created by an Israeli" or "I don't know if I could watch a movie with Natalie Portman", etc.

It also of course goes both ways. "I don't know if I could date a Muslim woman because of the whole ISIS thing". Plenty of irrational hatred to go around, even when that hatred is acknowledged as such.

 

[dude]

In the Middle East it will. There was not antisemitism in the ME prior to the existence of Israel. The hatred became much stronger because of Israeli policies. If a fair peace between Palestinians and Israelis happen tomorrow, then hatred towards the Jews, will be much, much less in the ME. In Europe that´s another story, because there was always discrimination against the Jews.

I am an anti occupation activist from Israel (Just so you know I'm not some crazy pro-Israeli trying to rebuke your theory), but this is no the whole story.
My family is Moroccan, and while things there were much better than, say, "holocaust", it wasn't all peaches. I mean, my family basically ran away from there with nothing (all their belongings were taken.) And that's without touching on what happened in Iraq and other countries (google "Farhud"). Antisemitism in the Middle east was better than the situation in Europe for sure, but it wasn't "non existent".
The only reason people don't know about the persecution of Arab Jews is that our history has not been documented or preserved. Even after arriving to Israel, there's still significant racism from Ashkenazi Jews towards Mizrahi and Sepheradi Jews.

Also, Yes - Israel is doing the worldwide Jewish community a great disservice, but I think it's wrong and dangerous to defend antisemitism as rooted in Israel's action. You can protest Israel without being antisemite, and hating "Jews" has nothing to do with hating the actions of the state of Israel. I think there's a real problem of tolerating antisemitism in this struggle, that must end. Israel does not equal Jewish or the other way around.

As much as people like to bash Israel (fairly, usually) it's sometimes clear a Jewish state should exist since anti-semitism seems to be a costant problem, at least to some extent, everywhere.

Israel is very racist towards many types of Jews. Anyone who is not an Orthodox Ashkenazi Jew is better off living in most other western countries than they do in Israel. Mizrahi and Jewish of arab descend do significantly less well in Israel than in the US and France for example (The Persian Jewish community is the most financially well off Jewish group in the US, but one of the least so in Israel.) Ethiopian Jews are suffering some significant Racism.Reform or Conservative Jews have many problems getting recognized as Jews by Israel. Even Haredi people are better off living in places like NY than in Israel.

 

[cripterion]

You do realize Mao Zedong literally starved or killed almost 40 million Chinese to death during the cultural revolution right? Or Joseph Station eradicating nearly 10-20 million people through mass executions, purges, lifetime gulag sentences, starvation. The Indonesian invasion of East Timor roughly killed almost 45% of the total population of the nation.

And if you think Nazi Germany rule was bad, the North Korean regime that is still alive to this day, makes them look like amateurs by comparison. North Korea's regime has ruled with an iron fist for almost 60+ years now. Hundreds of thousands killed, hundreds of thousands sentenced to generational punishment. Which means their kids, their grandkids will also be sentenced to a life of hard labor in a similar concentration camp because of something they might have down decades back. They're revered as God's because of their total control over their people, people who are brainwashed into oblivion. Unless your military, you're basically starving to death.

Human suffering is universal, there is no, oh my god, this is the worst, or these people have had it worst. You'll look on it with what you can relate to. Where would you rank something like the Partition of India, where literally overnight, you had a mass migration of 15 million people, forced to pack up and move across country lines? Within days almost 200,000 to 700,000 people killed each other in violence or fighting.

Great post. I agree.

 

[Crash Station]

Looks like a soldiers got stabbed outside a Jewish community center in Nice. Don't think the soldiers were Jewish, but I think this counts as anti-semitic intent.

Seems to be becoming a regular occurrence in France, which I imagine is the same for violence against Muslims

 

[AtomnayaKlubnika]

You do realize Mao Zedong literally starved or killed almost 40 million Chinese to death during the cultural revolution right? Or Joseph Station eradicating nearly 10-20 million people through mass executions, purges, lifetime gulag sentences, starvation. The Indonesian invasion of East Timor roughly killed almost 45% of the total population of the nation.

And if you think Nazi Germany rule was bad, the North Korean regime that is still alive to this day, makes them look like amateurs by comparison. North Korea's regime has ruled with an iron fist for almost 60+ years now. Hundreds of thousands killed, hundreds of thousands sentenced to generational punishment. Which means their kids, their grandkids will also be sentenced to a life of hard labor in a similar concentration camp because of something they might have down decades back. They're revered as God's because of their total control over their people, people who are brainwashed into oblivion. Unless your military, you're basically starving to death.

Human suffering is universal, there is no, oh my god, this is the worst, or these people have had it worst. You'll look on it with what you can relate to. Where would you rank something like the Partition of India, where literally overnight, you had a mass migration of 15 million people, forced to pack up and move across country lines? Within days almost 200,000 to 700,000 people killed each other in violence or fighting.

We are talking about genocide here, wich is the intentional and systematic extermination of a specific kind of people.
The Holocaust is a highpoint because it was the first time in history that a massive genocide was carried out with an undeniabled will and with such an atrocious effectiveness.
Anti-semitism is a specific case in history because it has been present for very long (from the fall of Jerusalem in the antiquity?), greatly theorized in the late XIXe and debut XXe and commonly shared by most people in Europe.
Some people get pissed when we "always talk about it", but let's not forget that too much have forgotten, too much have denied and still deny this suffering.

 

[Crash Station]

Also Relevant

One quote:

“I know there are plenty of people who simply want to live a peaceful coexistence,” said Honey. “But there is so much anti‑Semitism in Britain, and it’s coming from all sides. Our local Jewish schools look like prison camps. They’re surrounded by wire fences. There are guards on patrol, some with dogs. On Saturdays, you see police walking the street with members of the CST. I don’t want to sit at home panicking when my husband goes to the synagogue. I just want to live in peace.”

Don't know how reliable this site is, just saw it linked on Facebook from a British friend. Sucks if it's on the rise there too as I believe that's one of the least anti-semitic countries.

 

[antonz]

Islamic immigration has brought with it its share of anti-Semitism as seen in the Nordic countries where Jewish populations have begun being terrorized or even driven out of areas by incoming immigrants.

Anti-Semitism among Europeans also grows when you have countries like Russia actively funding and assisting the growth of Political and non Political Groups that have those beliefs.

Its a dangerous trend all around