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[viveks86]

Tagging this as a rumor as there is no official confirmation, but we have our very own insiders clarifying a key aspect:

Magnus will be used for both Xbox Console and "Xbox" PC but only the Console has BC

"Xbox PC" is just branding for a gaming focused PC (i.e because Magnus CPU is actually quite weak vs average desktop/laptop CPUs).

They wont just port Xbox games to PC, licensing nightmare

The other way around (e.g supporting PC Steam/GOG/etc games on Xbox) shouldn't really have any legal issues and even on a technical level shouldn't be too hard since it can be run inside a VM.

The big issue with 3rd party store support is the business model, since without the guaranteed 30% cut on every game they need to sell HW at a profit. That combined with Magnus being a fairly large APU could mean the XSX 2 might be twice the price of the PS6 or thereabouts.

This is a contradiction to Lisa Su and Sarah Bond's earlier announcements:

Moving forward, AMD will go beyond building custom chips for Xbox consoles to designing a full roadmap of gaming-optimized chips. Combining the power of Ryzen and Radeon for consoles, handhelds, PCs, and the cloud. And we're doing it all with backwards compatibility, so gamers can access their favorite titles across platforms, delivering on a promise to both gamers and developers.

This comes with a giant caveat that they have allegedly decided to gloss over in their presentations. The games should be "play anywhere" titles, which is a fraction of current gen titles and an even smaller (if any) set of legacy titles. It's their utopian vision of the future. One that we would only partially see in the next 2-3 years. Will they ever realize this vision with no caveats? Only time will tell.

So that brings us to the title. WTF is actually the difference between the next Xbox Console and the Xbox PC. Turns out, it's quite a lot. I'm trying to take a crack at it as it's all speculative territory, so bear with me if you disagree and feel free to challenge it with your own version:

	Xbox console	Xbox PC
SoC	Magnus	Magnus
Built by	Microsoft	OEM
Number of variants	1	1+
Power consumption	Low-Medium	Depends on variant
OS	Custom Windows	Windows
What UI will I see after boot up	Xbox UI	Windows
Will it play PC games	Yes. From predetermined PC storefronts seamlessly launched from Xbox UI	Yes. Any PC game from anywhere
Will it play current gen console games	Yes	Only play anywhere titles (and other games via unofficial 3rd party emulators)
Will it play BC console games	Yes	No
Will it play GTA 6 before PC launch	Yes	No
What version of GTA 6 will it play	Series X until R* releases a specific update	None until PC launch
Will MP be free	No, except f2p games. Gamepass core needed	Yes
If I only own a console game that is not on play anywhere, what version can I play	Console	None
If I only own the PC version of game not on play anywhere, what version can I play	PC	PC
If it is a play anywhere title, what version can I play	Console default, but may be with option to run PC version	PC
Can I manually edit files within a console game	No	No
Can I manually edit files or mod a PC game via dlls and other unofficial methods	No	Yes
Will there be an option to get to the regular PC environment so I can mess around and change all "No" to Yes	Ummm… No?	N/A. It's already a PC
Can I run excel on it	No? But should be possible via edge browser	Yes
Can I run PC VR games on it	No?	Yes
Will it support any peripheral attachments?	Only certified Xbox and Windows plug and play	Yes
Can I install a VPN on it	No	Yes
Do I need to update GPU drivers separate from automatic system updates	No	Yes
Do I have unrestricted access to porn	May be via browser, but only in free countries	Yes, but only in free countries
Is the UK a free country	See above	See above
Can you say "it's just a prebuilt PC" so I can sleep PCfully	It's just a prebuilt PC	It's literally just a prebuilt PC!
Can you whisper it in my ear softly, one more time	It's just a prebuilt PC	It's literally just a prebuilt PC!

 

[DavidGzz]

Console and PC games with no driver upkeep or compatibility issues sounds pretty nice for console only gamers. I really want to see and control the UI for myself.

 

[Dacvak]

"Can you say "it's just a prebuilt PC" so I can sleep PCfully"

 

[March Climber]

The Xbox Console will (allegedly) have direct backwards compatibility with this list:

Xbox Backward Compatible Games | Xbox

Discover the library of Xbox backward compatible games.

www.xbox.com

 

[viveks86]

Console and PC games with no driver upkeep or compatibility issues sounds pretty nice for console only gamers.

Yeah the console version has a clear value proposition and differentiator. I'm not sure of the consumer benefit for the Xbox PC versus any other PC anymore. Sounds like a desktop version of Surface laptops and… that's about it really.

 

[bitbydeath]

I think it's still unanswered/unclear if the console will play console games outside of BC/Series titles.

Ie. Not have games directly made for it and instead run all new titles through the PC mode.

 

[adamsapple]

Xbox PC is just the rebrand for the Windows Store PC versions of games.

 

[nial]

Great thread.
I don't get what's the point of this new twist around the console, it's basically the exact same deal as it's always been, just that you will be able to play your games from other, third-party storefronts, which no doubt will massively up the price as Microsoft isn't guaranteed to ever see software sales revenue through each console sold? Surely Xbox fans don't want this?
And that's not getting to the weird marketing mess of having around some third-party manufactured OEMs carrying the same console brand. At the very least, the ROG Xbox Ally isn't directly competing with an actual Microsoft-manufactured gaming handheld (as it got canned).

 

[viveks86]

I think it's still unanswered/unclear if the console will play console games outside of BC/Series titles.

It's an Xbox console. Why would that be unclear? Seems trivially true that it would play next gen console games as well. Or are you wondering if publishers would even release anything for Xbox console and just put everything out as a PC game instead?

GTA 6 would not run on it at launch then. And I don't see MS dropping the ball with something that big.

And both HeisenbergFX4 and K KeplerL2 have mentioned before that the console is to be seen as a traditional console, as far as licensing is concerned at least.

All based on insider info, of course. So I can't be 100% on it. May be someone would weigh in.

 

[DavidGzz]

I think it's still unanswered/unclear if the console will play console games outside of BC/Series titles.

Ie. Not have games directly made for it and instead run all new titles through the PC mode.

That would be a huge blunder if it wasn't because it would mean you can only play GTA 6 through streaming. MS can't make that mistake. It would be their worst one yet lol

Edit: oops, didn't read Viveks post above.

 

[nial]

GTA 6 would not run on it at launch then. And I don't see MS dropping the ball with something that big.

That would be a huge blunder if it wasn't because it would mean you can only play GTA 6 through streaming. MS can't make that mistake. It would be their worst one yet lol

Edit: oops, didn't read Viveks post above.

It would still run it through Series X BC, though.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Xbox PC - Windows
Xbox Console - stripped down windows

 

[bitbydeath]

It's an Xbox console. Why would that be unclear? Seems trivially true that it would play next gen console games as well. Or are you wondering if publishers would even release anything for Xbox console and just put everything out as a PC game instead?

GTA 6 would not run on it at launch then. And I don't see MS dropping the ball with something that big.

And both HeisenbergFX4 and K KeplerL2 have mentioned before that the console is to be seen as a traditional console, as far as licensing is concerned at least.

All based on insider info, of course. So I can't be 100% on it. May be someone would weigh in.

GTA6 would run through BC.
I'm not sure on the benefits for creating two versions of a game when they would both run on the same device. Extra work, adds confusion to the consumer, and goes against the idea of transition by extending the need for BC.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Great thread.
I don't get what's the point of this new twist around the console, it's basically the exact same deal as it's always been, just that you will be able to play your games from other, third-party storefronts, which no doubt will massively up the price as Microsoft isn't guaranteed to ever see software sales revenue through each console sold? Surely Xbox fans don't want this?
And that's not getting to the weird marketing mess of having around some third-party manufactured OEMs carrying the same console brand. At the very least, the ROG Xbox Ally isn't directly competing with an actual Microsoft-manufactured gaming handheld (as it got canned).

I think that Xbox software sales have fallen due to gamepass. MS dont really care where rhe software sales come from. If its steam, ps5 with a sprinkle of xbox store.

They sell gamepass subs to xbox users and every future game from ms will be play anywhere.

So, it's doesn't matter where you buy the game because they get their cut anyway and they get gamepass sub revenue.

A user thats bought from xbox and loves xbox to a fanboy level will continue to buy games on the xbox store. Plus its microsofts incentive to make the xbox store work. Deep sales etc.

Basically, everyone likes the idea because its not a walled garden anymore and you have more choice. More stores to buy from and also more games you can play on your device ( if it runs your steam library)

Make sense?

 

[viveks86]

Great thread.
I don't get what's the point of this new twist around the console, it's basically the exact same deal as it's always been, just that you will be able to play your games from other, third-party storefronts, which no doubt will massively up the price as Microsoft isn't guaranteed to ever see software sales revenue through each console sold? Surely Xbox fans don't want this?
And that's not getting to the weird marketing mess of having around some third-party manufactured OEMs carrying the same console brand. At the very least, the ROG Xbox Ally isn't directly competing with an actual Microsoft-manufactured gaming handheld (as it got canned).

Seems like MS' take on steam machines. Except they get to hold on to the "do it all" console version while the rest are playing around with good ol prebuilt PCs and sales channel leverage.

It's… a strategy. The console seems consumer friendly as I'm sure there is a market for a one stop shop device. But like you said, brings up several business challenges and lost opportunity costs that they have to reckon with. The PC though… no idea

 

[viveks86]

GTA6 would run through BC.
I'm not sure on the benefits for creating two versions of a game when they would both run on the same device. Extra work, adds confusion to the consumer, and goes against the idea of transition by extending the need for BC.

Good point… did not think of that possibility. For now I'm going to assume this isn't the route they would take. It seems wildly disruptive to their existing business model.

nial What happens to their MP revenue? GamePass core? 3rd party revenue share? All of that will become obsolete. It would be a hardware business with no new software revenue to recognize. I.e Disruptive.

But… it's certainly valid speculation

 

[nial]

I think that Xbox software sales have fallen due to gamepass. MS dont really care where rhe software sales come from. If its steam, ps5 with a sprinkle of xbox store.

They sell gamepass subs to xbox users and every future game from ms will be play anywhere.

So, it's doesn't matter where you buy the game because they get their cut anyway and they get gamepass sub revenue.

A user thats bought from xbox and loves xbox to a fanboy level will continue to buy games on the xbox store. Plus its microsofts incentive to make the xbox store work. Deep sales etc.

Basically, everyone likes the idea because its not a walled garden anymore and you have more choice. More stores to buy from and also more games you can play on your device ( if it runs your steam library)

Make sense?

The issue is that allowing those storefronts is detrimental to their core Game Pass business, starting with, well, the Core option needed for online multiplayer. For example, people looking to buy COD 2027 will have the option of the Xbox Next version requiring a Core sub to play online, or the Steam one with free multiplayer.
The strategy itself just seems aimless, and if the entire goal is to keep their hardcore fanbase of 25M people still investing into the ecosystem, well, this kinda goes against that. A normal Series X successor would have been a much better idea at that point.

 

[Dr.D00p]

Microsoft is basically paying AMD for a very powerful next gen APU that they will then offer to OEMs like ASUS to make custom Pc's that will look like a traditional console which will sit under your TV with XBox branding and will boot directly to Gamespass and other gaming storefronts like Steam.

I dont know the economics of it all but presumably Microsofts bankrolling of the custom APU means it will be more powerful and cheaper than anything you could build yourself for the same price.

The interesting thing is that supposedly the CPU & GPU parts of the APU are now seperate. So in theory, Microsoft could release iterative upgrades of the APU every few years with either a more powerful CPU or GPU rather than a whole new chipset every 7yrs like we have today.

 

[nial]

nial What happens to their MP revenue? GamePass core? 3rd party revenue share? All of that will become obsolete. It would be a hardware business with no new software revenue to recognize. I.e Disruptive.

But… it's certainly valid speculation

Funny that you added this to your post at the exact same time I posted mine touching on the same subject of Game Pass Core. Yep, I don't quite get what Microsoft actually wants out of this.

 

[DenchDeckard]

The issue is that allowing those storefronts is detrimental to their core Game Pass business, starting with, well, the Core option needed for online multiplayer. For example, people looking to buy COD 2027 will have the option of the Xbox Next version requiring a Core sub to play online, or the Steam one with free multiplayer.
The strategy itself just seems aimless, and if the entire goal is to keep their hardcore fanbase of 25M people still investing into the ecosystem, well, this kinda goes against that. A normal Series X successor would have been a much better idea at that point.

Not at all. Xbox dont care about xbox core anymore. When was the last time you even heard it discussed?

They want to drive gamepass subs.

You could easily counter your point with. Why would a world that has been trained to consume all content through shitty streaming and subscription based models decide to buy cod when they get cod plus forza horizon 6. Grounded 2 and every other Microsoft game included in their gamepass sub.

You gotta change how you think about this.

 

[viveks86]

The issue is that allowing those storefronts is detrimental to their core Game Pass business, starting with, well, the Core option needed for online multiplayer. For example, people looking to buy COD 2027 will have the option of the Xbox Next version requiring a Core sub to play online, or the Steam one with free multiplayer.
The strategy itself just seems aimless, and if the entire goal is to keep their hardcore fanbase of 25M people still investing into the ecosystem, well, this kinda goes against that. A normal Series X successor would have been a much better idea at that point.

adamsapple how would you counter this? I need mah big gun to figure this out

 

[DenchDeckard]

adamsapple how would you counter this? I need mah big gun to figure this out

See my post above

 

[viveks86]

See my post above

Yeah just read it and still digesting it. Sorry for my bias towards adamsapple . I have a lifetime sub to his OnlyFans.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Yeah just read it and still digesting it. Sorry for my bias towards adamsapple . I have a lifetime sub to his OnlyFans.

Hey no problem at all im the same. I sub for his feet pics.

 

[viveks86]

Not at all. Xbox dont care about xbox core anymore. When was the last time you even heard it discussed?

Isn't Xbox core like… 2 billion of their "near" 5 billion gamepass revenue?

 

[nial]

Not at all. Xbox dont care about xbox core anymore. When was the last time you even heard it discussed?

They want to drive gamepass subs.

You could easily counter your point with. Why would a world that has been trained to consume all content through shitty streaming and subscription based models decide to buy cod when they get cod plus forza horizon 6. Grounded 2 and every other Microsoft game included in their gamepass sub.

You gotta change how you think about this.

Are you sure? I wouldn't certainly rule out it from being a big part of their annual revenue.
The thing is that people still buying software on Xbox isn't (yet) a negligible amount. Let's try with Battlefield 7 instead, why would you buy the Xbox Next version when the Steam one has free online multiplayer? Allowing these storefronts will bring the issue, as I previously mentioned, of Microsoft not being guaranteed of ever seeing continuous revenue after each hardware purchase, which will lead to them selling these things for a profit, making stuff worse for absolutely everyone.
Again, launching a normal Series successor would have been much better to accomplish the exact same goal. Why the hell would you even allow third-party storefronts if what you want is for people to pay attention to your own services instead? It's ridiculous.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Isn't Xbox core like… 2 billion of their "near" 5 billion gamepass revenue?

It probably is but its not a KPI that MS are as interested in.

I could right a huge post on this but ill put it simply because I want to use a platform that buys games.

All in all. The end user wins. Which is good for us. More options.

Say the ps5 introduced steam as a platform. There's 75 mill ps5s who are full of users that buy games.

They are used to buying games on the playstation store and thats where their catalogue is. They are invested in the platform. They will probably continue to buy games from the playstation store as that is where all their purchases are. They might dabble with steam and buy the odd game thats cheaper than the ps store but its probably not going to be a huge dent to their direct store sales as the majority of the users have never used steam and dont intend to.

Now you could slowly erode purchases but 90 percent of people stick to one store and only buy the odd but of content from other places if the deal is good enough.

It probably won't affect sales too much and if it did it would only be down to how bad the store is vs steam. So its on the company to do better to drive sales. Deeper discounts and a good service etc.

Its really just a win win for us.

 

[viveks86]

Microsoft is basically paying AMD for a very powerful next gen APU that they will then offer to OEMs like ASUS to make custom Pc's that will look like a traditional console which will sit under your TV with XBox branding and will boot directly to Gamespass and other gaming storefronts like Steam.

I don't believe this is how the launch timeframe is playing out. The one under the TV is being controlled by MS, while the OEM(s) get to put the Xbox label on their prebuilt PCs that run on the same SoC. As to form factor, you may be right that they too may look like consoles. But I doubt MS would want that as it would confuse and potentially cannibalize their own console sales. The insiders are confident there is one console coming straight from Microsoft and that would be the "Xbox Console with BC". At launch at least.

The rest of your speculation seems inline with what has leaked so far.

 

[viveks86]

It probably is but its not a KPI that MS are as interested in.

I could right a huge post on this but ill put it simply because I want to use a platform that buys games.

All in all. The end user wins. Which is good for us. More options.

Say the ps5 introduced steam as a platform. There's 75 mill ps5s who are full of users that buy games.

They are used to buying games on the playstation store and thats where their catalogue is. They are invested in the platform. They will probably continue to buy games from the playstation store as that is where all their purchases are. They might dabble with steam and buy the odd game thats cheaper than the ps store but its probably not going to be a huge dent to their direct store sales as the majority of the users have never used steam and dont intend to.

Now you could slowly erode purchases but 90 percent of people stick to one store and only buy the odd but of content from other places if the deal is good enough.

It probably won't affect sales too much and if it did it would only be down to how bad the store is vs steam. So its on the company to do better to drive sales. Deeper discounts and a good service etc.

Its really just a win win for us.

Yeah I see the end user win. I'm not convinced this would benefit Xbox's revenue though. If they don't make big numbers, this would be their swan song.

Xbox PC - Windows
Xbox Console - stripped down windows

 

[DenchDeckard]

Yeah I see the end user win. I'm not convinced this would benefit Xbox's revenue though. If they don't make big numbers, this would be their swan song.

Big numbers in what? It doesn't seem like they are driven by software sales on their own platform anymore so thats not a metric they will be looking at but more alternative revenue streams. They are selling boatloads of copies of games on steam and ps5.

So they have gone from selling on one store on console to selling on 3 platforms very well ( steam, ps5 and switch)

That's increasing their tam to a level they could never achieve with one store.

Then they have gamepass on top. This new business model for xbox will be the healthiest they've had for generations. Because its a no brainer.

Software sales are flying...Just not on their own stores and the baseline is now set. They can push for growth in various ways.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Nothing to be confused about really.

Stripped down Windows means purely gaming system. With BC to Xbox console games.

Full Windows means Magnus will be a target for devs to optimise to. It will perform well despite being a console chip.

 

[bitbydeath]

Isn't Xbox core like… 2 billion of their "near" 5 billion gamepass revenue?

GamePass PC is almost the same cost as Core, they could transfer them.

 

[viveks86]

Nothing to be confused about really.

Stripped down Windows means purely gaming system. With BC to Xbox console games.

Full Windows means Magnus will be a target for devs to optimise to. It will perform well despite being a console chip.

No confusion. As long as you read through the table in the OP, we seem to be on the same page. Your post made it look like you were just responding to the title, which was already answered in the OP. Hence my reaction

Yes, it is stripped down Windows versus full blown windows. There is a lot more nuance to it though, which I've tried to highlight from a feature, experience and licensing standpoint

 

[PlayStaytion]

It has many names. It's everywhere and nowhere.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

No confusion. As long as you read through the table in the OP, we seem to be on the same page. Your post made it look like you were just responding to the title, which was already answered in the OP. Hence my reaction

Yes, it is stripped down Windows versus full blown windows. There is a lot more nuance to it though, which I've tried to highlight from a feature, experience and licensing standpoint

Yeah, it sure is a heck lot of work.

Look at Xbox Rog Ally, even with a OS overhaul, its still missing a few features. Extremely fringe cases but its not 100%.

 

[PlayStaytion]

Technically, the Xbox PC has more little CPU cores and fewer GPU CUs.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Xbox Console is the Console we all know.

Xbox PC is nothing.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Xbox Console is the Console we all know.

Xbox PC is nothing.

Regular PC has a lot of Xbox branding in the OS.

One of my PC only friend says lets buy xbox whenever he wants to buy gamepass.

 

[viveks86]

Xbox Console is the Console we all know.

Is it though? Sounds like it can do much more via storefronts, which has several implications for users as well as MS.

 

[Team Andromeda]

For all the crap some people talk, I think it be much more like the OG Xbox - which really was a PC in a Box and the major difference being you'll only need to buy a game once and can play that on any widow based system

 

[odhiex]

The way I read this:

XBOX PC = It's a pre-built PC with Windows
XBOX Console = still a PC with Windows, but with more restrictive features + BC with XBOX console games.

It is confusing, but I think Microsoft would be careless. Everything can be an XBOX anyway.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Is it though? Sounds like it can do much more via storefronts, which has several implications for users as well as MS.

It may or may not. We haven't seen that in action yet.

As of now, Xbox console is simply an Xbox console like Xbox Series X|S with a closed storefront.

 

[Dr.D00p]

But I doubt MS would want that as it would confuse and potentially cannibalize their own console sales.

I dont think MS really care about how many consoles they themselves sell anymore...as long as they keep the Xbox brand alive with OEM made 'consoles' they will be happy with the revenue from software sales and gamepass subscriptions.

 

[PeteBull]

Imho by the time its relevant(aka gta6 launch) we will know already pretty well what next xbox is, we already got leaks about specs, so by may 2026(or few months later with inevitable gta6 delay) we will have plenty info, maybe even official one at that.
One thing for certain, ps6, next xbox and next gen specced pc will all be fairy expensive, so no matter what u gonna want(at this time really no point to own all 3 fortunately) u will wanna have some change saved up, nothing wrong to save now if u arent wealthy and can afford it right away

 

[Baemono]

But I doubt MS would want that as it would confuse and potentially cannibalize their own console sales.

They managed to make sure that it is less clear than ever what is actually an Xbox and you believe MS doesn't want to confuse people ?

 

[DenchDeckard]

They managed to make sure that it is less clear than ever what is actually an Xbox and you believe MS doesn't want to confuse people ?

Microsoft havent said anything. Its just typical internet confusion by people who want to be confused talking hypotheticals about leaks that they've seen. It happens for all tech. Look at Switch 2 and now the PS portable and this Xbox.

All MS has officially said is that they are making a new console, it will be their most powerful console yet (marketing speal) and that they are looking at how they move peoples content forward. The rest is pure speculation by us, and people like MLID.

 

[Baemono]

Microsoft havent said anything.

 

[GymWolf]

From their names i can guess that the xbox pc is gonna be like a steam machine.

The next xbox is gonna be a new console like series x.

 

[DenchDeckard]

What has this got to do with anything next gen hardware related?

Its literally marketing to show you can stream games on those things. Its a software push.

 

[Baemono]

What has this got to do with anything next gen hardware related?

Its literally marketing to show you can stream games on those things. Its a software push.

The post I was quoting was about Microsoft not wanting to confuse people about Xbox, and I said they already started confusing people on what is an Xbox, so it's not like they are shy regarding this