Support NeoGAF

[shira]

Why is it that all these Muslim buildings and designs look pure evil to me? is it just because I've been raised an white american and the media has conditioned me to see middle eastern design as evil, or is there something wrong with me on a aesthetic level, or do Muslims share this view as well?

Do you have Tetris issues?

 

[Ydahs]

Alright so tell me this, how much idolatry is actually happening?

And erasing history is not a good thing from any perspective, including a religious one.

Hey I'm not disagreeing with you, just stating facts. What that said though, I wouldn't be surprised if people were treating those places as holy and sacred.

Why do they have to knock down the 1000 year old building to build a new one? Is there no more room anywhere?

Those old mosques are in the way of the expansion of the Prophet's mosque (1400 year old mosque in Medina, hundreds of kms away from the Kabbah). Since the Prophet's mosque is among the holiest in Islam, it gets precedence I guess. Also, it needs to fit all those people attending during the annual pilgrimage so expansion is pretty much required. This will take its capacity from one million to 1.6 million.

 

[Mael]

What's really sad is that the Saudis in that thread love it.

I alluded to this development in the other thread about the clock.


both of them, absolutely fucking hideous and completely at odds with the environs.

PLaying devil's advocate here :
Well you know the Eiffel tower isn't exactly a supremely beautiful building either, heck ask Maupassant how much he liked it...

 

[Ken Masters]

So that is what comes right next to Kaba.

WTF

Some serious Final Fantasy shit in the head of that architect. I will not comment on actual development, that one is beyond words.

Good thread about this lunacy at Skyscrapercity.

That's some sci fi shit right there

 

[Log4Girlz]

The current destructions are set to be 3 buildings close to the current Masjid an-Nabawi in Medina: Independent article.

As an aside, I'd love to visit sometime. I was looking at photos of the interior of the mosque a while back and it's beautiful.

Interesting. Almost seems they are itching to blow up whatever they can get away with.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Aks the Papacy how that worked out in Europe

Hey at least we got some spectacular religious buildings out of it. Better than some supremely tacky megahotel towering over the holiest site in Islam.

 

[Dennis]

I'm no friend of religion, but how is it that we just know that no Muslims are getting mad about this? What's our evidence that there isn't a storm coming? I'm sore over the depictions of Muhammad thing too (I participated in Draw Muhammad Day, even), but much like pundits repeat that Muslims are "silent" about anti-terrorism (they are very loud about it), how do we know there around Muslims just boiling over this? Wasn't the destruction of almost countless previous sites the subject of much ire and violence in the past?

Because there are no riots?

Riots are usually a good indication when muslims have been greatly offended.

 

[RustyNails]

Holy shit, money and religion go hand in hand in 2012


Vatican 2.0, seems like its all about displaying power and wealth now

His first picture is Mecca, and second picture is Medina, some 300 miles away.

There is so much bullshit in this thread.

 

[Gareth Bale]

Dumbass makes cartoons: Go batshit insane

Bulldoze his grave instead.....

Bit of a silly way to start the discussion don't you think?

"Concerns are growing that the expansion of Masjid an-Nabawi will come at the price of three of the world’s oldest mosques nearby, which hold the tombs of Prophet Mohammed and two of his closest companions, Abu Bakr and Umar."

Is this bit even correct? By that I mean are they really considering knocking down those three mosques?

 

[Dead Man]

Those old mosques are in the way of the expansion of the Prophet's mosque (1400 year old mosque in Medina, hundreds of kms away from the Kabbah). Since the Prophet's mosque is among the holiest in Islam, it gets precedence I guess. Also, it needs to fit all those people attending during the annual pilgrimage so expansion is pretty much required. This will take its capacity from one million to 1.6 million.

So why does everyone need to be in the same building? I don't understand. What is the capacity of the buildings they are demolishing? Why can't they be incorporated into the exansion as it seems the original mosque of the prophet was? And if a particular mosque is holier than any other, doesn't that fly in the face of their extreme anti-idolatry? Sorry to bombard you with questions.

Hey at least we got some spectacular religious buildings out of it. Better than some supremely tacky megahotel towering over the holiest site in Islam.

In 500 years that megahotel will be considered a spectacular historical building :/

 

[Nesotenso]

Has this news spread, though? I don't think those newspaper reactions happened the very day it was published, did they?

Because preserving historical sites is not high on the agenda for many I guess. And the reason being given is to expand to the capacity of Masjid al- Nabawi to 1.6 million worshippers.

 

[womfalcs3]

It is not immoral or religiously forbidden to be financially wealthy or try to make money legitimately (i.e., without violating the moral code or others' rights). One can still be modest while spending and making tons of money.

The purpose of these large expansions around the holy cities is to be able to accommodate more religious visitors. In the past, the infrastructure and capacity would not have held 4 million people; it did this year. The plan is to make it possible to hold 5 million religious visitors at once in the near future.

This requires construction and redesign. This requires great expenditure to build up the mass transportation, the prayer areas of the Masjids, and hotels.

I agree that the clock tower in Makkah is not fitting for the city, but the other projects have good intentions.

There are so many people in the world who would love to go for Hajj but can't due to the lack of capacity in these cities.

 

[Nesotenso]

Bit of a silly way to start the discussion don't you think?

"Concerns are growing that the expansion of Masjid an-Nabawi will come at the price of three of the world’s oldest mosques nearby, which hold the tombs of Prophet Mohammed and two of his closest companions, Abu Bakr and Umar."

Is this bit even correct?

no

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Bit of a silly way to start the discussion don't you think?

"Concerns are growing that the expansion of Masjid an-Nabawi will come at the price of three of the world’s oldest mosques nearby, which hold the tombs of Prophet Mohammed and two of his closest companions, Abu Bakr and Umar."

Is this bit even correct?

I don't think so. The tomb of the Prophet is already inside the Masjid an-Nabawi (as are the other two, I believe), whereas I'm reading that as saying they're in the buildings set for destruction.

 

[F#A#Oo]

OK, so Muslims can desecrate their religious icons, but when non-Muslims do it? Sacrelige!

Well yeah. That's generally how things work.

Take for example Romney who said Italy is going the way of Greece. Italians have been saying it for years but as soon as a non-Italian says it, it gets front page coverage and it is suddenly frowned upon to concur with such views as a foreigner.

A white person cannot call a black person a nigger. A non-muslim can't call a muslim a terrorist in jest but if a fellow muslim says it, it's fine.

My wife is black but if you say our kids are bounties she'll rip you a new one but coming from me or family? She'll laugh.

 

[RustyNails]

Bit of a silly way to start the discussion don't you think?

"Concerns are growing that the expansion of Masjid an-Nabawi will come at the price of three of the world’s oldest mosques nearby, which hold the tombs of Prophet Mohammed and two of his closest companions, Abu Bakr and Umar."

Is this bit even correct?

It's not. Prophet Muhammad, Abu Bakr and Umar's tombs are directly under the green dome of Masjid Nabwi in Medina part of the mosque itself.

That is directly under this

 

[Log4Girlz]

Well yeah. That's generally how things work.

Take for example Romney who said Italy is going the way of Greece. Italians have been saying it for years but as soon as a non-Italian says it, it gets front page coverage.

A white person cannot call a black person a nigger. A non-muslim can't call a muslim a terrorist in jest but if a fellow muslim says it, it's fine.

My wife is black but if you say our kids are bounties she'll rip you a new one but coming from me or family? She'll laugh.

What...is a bountie?

 

[seanoff]

PLaying devil's advocate here :
Well you know the Eiffel tower isn't exactly a supremely beautiful building either, heck ask Maupassant how much he liked it...

the Eiffel tower isn't in the forecourt of Notre Dame or Sacre Coeur just FYI. or St Peter's Square in Vatican City.

these buildings are like building the entire LV strip around St Peter's Square, but with worse architecture.

 

[Nesotenso]

Well yeah. That's generally how things work.

Take for example Romney who said Italy is going the way of Greece. Italians have been saying it for years but as soon as a non-Italian says it, it gets front page coverage.

A white person cannot call a black person a nigger. A non-muslim can't call a muslim a terrorist in jest but if a fellow muslim says it, it's fine.

My wife is black but if you say our kids are bounties she'll rip you a new one but coming from me or family? She'll laugh.

I don't think anyone is desecrating the Prophet here. Not showing reverence for history ? Yes.

 

[Dead Man]

What...is a bountie?

I have never heard it in that context, but I think it might be a reference to:

 

[RustyNails]

Well yeah. That's generally how things work.

Take for example Romney who said Italy is going the way of Greece. Italians have been saying it for years but as soon as a non-Italian says it, it gets front page coverage and it is suddenly frowned upon to concur with such views as a foreigner.

A white person cannot call a black person a nigger. A non-muslim can't call a muslim a terrorist in jest but if a fellow muslim says it, it's fine.

My wife is black but if you say our kids are bounties she'll rip you a new one but coming from me or family? She'll laugh.

Eh, I'm not so sure. I believe history belongs to everyone. I am thankful to the Almighty that Egypt was not under Saudi rule. Otherwise, the whole Giza plateau would've been bombed to high hell.

 

[shinobi602]

Bit of a silly way to start the discussion don't you think?

"Concerns are growing that the expansion of Masjid an-Nabawi will come at the price of three of the world’s oldest mosques nearby, which hold the tombs of Prophet Mohammed and two of his closest companions, Abu Bakr and Umar."

Is this bit even correct? By that I mean are they really considering knocking down those three mosques?

I'm not sure as the Independent is stating the same thing. It wouldn't surprise as they turned the Prophet's wife's house into public toilets. And the graves of his own daughter and family went from this:

To this:

 

[F#A#Oo]

What...is a bountie?

Chocolate bar with coconut centre.

 

[MarshMellow96]

So what happens to the Muslims who can't afford to complete the Hajj?

 

[Dennis]

Fuck you guys now I want a Bounty.

 

[Nesotenso]

So what happens to the Muslims who can't afford to complete the Hajj?

as far as I know it is not obligatory if you can't financially afford it or physically endure it.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Fuck you guys now I want a Bounty.

They're disgusting.

 

[Mael]

the Eiffel tower isn't in the forecourt of Notre Dame or Sacre Coeur just FYI. or St Peter's Square in Vatican City.

these buildings are like building the entire LV strip around St Peter's Square, but with worse architecture.

Well I could argue about the Haussman renovations that basically destroyed half of the town so that the cannon could go in the street so that the parisian wouldn't revolt so much...
But yeah I said I was playing devil's advocate....not a good one.

And seriously what they're doing is hilariously bad, like they're literally destroying their heirlom so that no one make a shrine or something.

 

[RustyNails]

They're disgusting.

....I thought we were friends, cheezmo.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

....I thought we were friends, cheezmo.

I don't like coconut

 

[Log4Girlz]

I too hate coconut. In the US the racist term would be calling someone an Oreo.

 

[Nesotenso]

They're disgusting.

never liked it myself.

 

[F#A#Oo]

I don't think anyone is desecrating the Prophet here. Not showing reverence for history ? Yes.

Well more in reference to if a non-muslim got rid of the graves choas would occur but since it's muslims it's okay.

There has been people saying muslims don't know about this but they do know as this sort of stuff is not new and has been happening for centuries.

 

[Ydahs]

Has this news spread, though? I don't think those newspaper reactions happened the very day it was published, did they?

I'm just going with intuition here, this seems like such a blatantly awful thing to do in several ways, even if the GRAVE OF THEIR PROPHET wasn't being razed, there's also the issue of replacing 1000 year old historical sites with expensive hotels. Do the Saudis really have that much sway?

There won't be protests or rage in that form. Many aren't happy with the decision, but they understand that religiously they hold no ground here. It's a very different issue than that of the comics. Also, these 1000 year old mosques are being demolished to expand a 1400 year old mosque, not to build hotels.

So why does everyone need to be in the same building? I don't understand. What is the capacity of the buildings they are demolishing? Why can't they be incorporated into the exansion as it seems the original mosque of the prophet was? And if a particular mosque is holier than any other, doesn't that fly in the face of their extreme anti-idolatry? Sorry to bombard you with questions.

It's not that everyone needs to be in it, it's that they want to. It's the second mosque built in history and holds a lot of historical significance so naturally people want to be there. Not sure why they don't incorporate those other mosques into the expansion. I'd love to do some more research for you but I can't seem to find an article that actually has their names listed :/

Regarding your last question, people don't worship mosques, they worship figures. They may worship or 'pray' to the grave of the Prophet and his companions. That's what the Saudis fear. Islam regards many places as holy but no man, woman or child is meant to be worshipped or idolized.

edit: oh wow, bounty! Forgot they existed.

 

[Zapages]

I'm not sure as the Independent is stating the same thing. It wouldn't surprise as they turned the Prophet's wife's house into public toilets. And the graves of his own daughter and family went from this:

To this:

the old buildings look so awesome... Really sad. :-(

 

[Clydefrog]

welp

2012 is real

 

[Dead Man]

There won't be protests or rage in that form. Many aren't happy with the decision, but they understand that religiously they hold no ground here. It's a very different issue than that of the comics. Also, these 1000 year old mosques are being demolished to expand a 1400 year old mosque, not to build hotels.


It's not that everyone needs to be in it, it's that they want to. It's the second mosque built in history and holds a lot of historical significance so naturally people want to be there. Not sure why they don't incorporate those other mosques into the expansion. I'd love to do some more research for you but I can't seem to find an article that actually has their names listed :/

Regarding your last question, people don't worship mosques, they worship figures. They may worship or 'pray' to the grave of the Prophet and his companions. That's what the Saudis fear. Islam regards many places as holy but no man, woman or child is meant to be worshipped or idolized.

edit: oh wow, bounty! Forgot they existed.

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

They're disgusting.

You are dead to me :/

 

[Zapages]

There won't be protests or rage in that form. Many aren't happy with the decision, but they understand that religiously they hold no ground here. It's a very different issue than that of the comics. Also, these 1000 year old mosques are being demolished to expand a 1400 year old mosque, not to build hotels.


It's not that everyone needs to be in it, it's that they want to. It's the second mosque built in history and holds a lot of historical significance so naturally people want to be there. Not sure why they don't incorporate those other mosques into the expansion. I'd love to do some more research for you but I can't seem to find an article that actually has their names listed :/

Regarding your last question, people don't worship mosques, they worship figures. They may worship or 'pray' to the grave of the Prophet and his companions. That's what the Saudis fear. Islam regards many places as holy but no man, woman or child is meant to be worshipped or idolized.

edit: oh wow, bounty! Forgot they existed.

That end part is true, but Islamic history is significant as well. That its why these sites should stay to teach future generations about Islam.

 

[Azih]

Because there are no riots?

Riots are usually a good indication when muslims have been greatly offended.

Riots are a good indication that the poor muslims of some areas have been riled up by their conservative imams on some issue, no more and no less. Those same conservative imams are for various reasons usually very Pro Saudi.

There are plenty of muslims *in this very thread* who are greatly offended by this.

Antipathy and disdain for Saudis is not exactly a rare emotion for a lot of Muslims.

Plus the Saudis have been doing this shit for decades now from way before they were 'expanding buildings to accommodate pilgrims'. They just search for excuses to tear down and destroy places that other sects respect. It's an angry, intolerant, and violent Wahhabi attitude and it's in a very real way erasing history.

 

[shinobi602]

Also:

A pamphlet published in 2007 by the Ministry of Islamic Affairs – and endorsed by the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Abdulaziz al Sheikh – called for the dome to be demolished and the graves of Mohamed, Abu Bakr and Umar to be flattened. Sheikh Ibn al-Uthaymeen, one of the 20th century’s most prolific Wahabi scholars, made similar demands.

 

[Raist]

Do you have Tetris issues?

... er, that's an orthodox cathedral?

 

[shinobi602]

That's what the Saudis fear. Islam regards many places as holy but no man, woman or child is meant to be worshipped or idolized.

I don't see how having a grave marker and a tomb is considered worshipping the person.

 

[Nesotenso]

Well more in reference to if a non-muslim got rid of the graves choas would occur but since it's muslims it's okay.

There has been people saying muslims don't know about this but they do know as this sort of stuff is not new and has been happening for centuries.

nobody seems to be getting rid of graves. And they are backwards anti blasphemy laws in some Muslim countries which won't protect you even if you are muslim. Being a muslim wouldn't protect you in some places if you made that youtube video.

I get the point you are trying to make. But the situation is different from the youtube and cartoon silliness.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

I'd love to do some more research for you but I can't seem to find an article that actually has their names listed :/

I believe one of them is Masjid Ghamama.

... er, that's an orthodox cathedral?

lmao

 

[Weapxn]

That picture looks like one of those undead buildings from WarCraft III.

 

[Pagusas]

???

Yeah that looks decent to me, though I dont find it overal pleasing. The spires/ordiments on top the towers look evil.

Things like this just all look like torture/death/hell to me:

I can appreciate them from a grand scale sense, but the style just does not work with me at all. The more I think about it, the more I seem to associate hell with dry/crowded places and designs. Luckily my opinion does not matter one bit in these things and I'm sure the people who build them/worship in them love them

 

[Nesotenso]

Funny thing some of the Domed Islamic structures were influence by Byzantine art and architecture

 

[GraveRobberX]

What...is a bountie?

Kosher/Halal (hehe) Almond Joy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounty_(chocolate_bar)

 

[phosphor112]

Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them.

I fucking want them off the face of this planet. I'd rather nuke the fuck out of them before they even get to touch his grave.

 

[Htown]

Oh look. Another thread about Islam religion where people barely read the thread and flip out over nothing while calling religious people hypocrites. Has it been 12 hours already?