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WWE Network |OT| $9.99 PPVs, that's gonna put some butts in the seats
- Thread starter Kaladin
- Start date
fuq i can't believe i use to like this gimmick. wtf was wrong with me.
Evening Musuko
Black Korea
That is hilarious. I can picture Vince laughing his ass off in the back while watching the match.
Cena's gimmick was good at the time but nobody should pretend it wasn't partially ironic love. When he was a heel the faves used to laugh at him, like when Spanky dropped some sick ass rhymes all over him (Brian Hebner on beatbox). Cena was the Zack Ryder of his day, it's why Zack had to die before he became too big.
Mr. Enigma
Member
Rikishi & Too Cool were over as FUCK in 2000. Think about it. They stopped a Royal Rumble to do their dance gimmick in MADISON SQUARE GARDEN. And the MSG fans went apeshit for it and didn't crap on it.
Anyone who tries to say they weren't over as hell is living in quite a fantasy land.
Anyone who tries to say they weren't over as hell is living in quite a fantasy land.
I think really only the worst of the smark crowd hates the Worm.
Semi-related, Scotty being bald now is WEIRD. I approve of the Stoney 2 Coldy jokes though.
plagiarize
Banned
Are you suggesting that was the biggest pop that night? Did Too Cool even hold the belts for an entire month? Did Too Cool's popularity remain once Rikishi left? Maybe you all use Too Cool and Too Cool and Rikishi interchangeably, but I don't, and obviously Rikishi tragically isn't around any more.
Anyway, we're losing sight of what I was originally trying to say. If you want me to call them 'has beens' instead of 'never was' I think that's a disservice to the other tag teams of that era that are no longer what they were, but having a young talent that the company is trying to build lie down for that long after a bulldog delivered by a 40 year old who has been a joke for over a decade... it's just stupid, even if he eventually counters the chop drop and even if that move used to get a giant pop for a few months back in 2000.
If it makes me a smark to not like overly theatrical build ups, then I guess I'm a smark.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Nobody was arguing wrestling ability. Just that people loved them. Just because you think it's stupid that they were extremely over doesn't mean that they never were.
And of course Rikishi was part of Too Cool. Google it and he's in almost every picture. At this point you're just moving goalposts.
It's all good dude. Pro wrestling is a thousand different people watching for a thousand different reasons. I like the goofy shit to an extent, but I can see why it wouldn't appeal.
HarryDemeanor
Member
Watching Fall Brawl '97. They dubbed in Break Down the Walls for Jericho's entrance.
plagiarize
Banned
I think it's stupid to suggest they were as over as anyone else in 2000, given the popularity of tag wrestling in the 2000s. That's it. If we make a list of 'most over tag teams in the year 2000' and we order it from 'most over' down, are you suggesting any list that doesn't have Too Cool at the top is stupid?
2000 was when Edge and Christian were in their five second pose days. They were absolutely more over than Too Cool. Notably so. The Dudley's were putting people through tables left right and center. The Hardy Boys were at the height of their fame and abilities.
2000 was the year of the legendary TLC match at Summerslam. That legendary three way fued between The Dudleys, The Hardys and E+C ran through most of 2000.
And you think believing that Too Cool weren't as over with the audiences makes me a smark? I think believing otherwise means you're forgetting what tag wrestling was back in 2000.
Too Cool is a tag team consisting of Scotty 2 Hotty and Grand Master Sexay which originally existed in said form (names and gimmick) in the WWE for a little over a year as part of the main roster. During some of that year, they were allied with Rikishi. They were billed as Too Cool when appearing without him and as Too Cool and Rikishi when appearing with him.
Rikishi was not involved in the match at NXT last night, for obvious tragic reasons. The match I was commenting on. The match I described as featuring a 'never was' tag team. A term I would never have used in relation to Rikishi, had he been involved.
Edit: And I just realized that Rikishi isn't dead. Something I'm actually very happy to be have been wrong about.
JPeeples83
Member
The network has easily been worth the $10 already, just for comedic screens so far.
OBSERVE THIS, BROTHER!
OBSERVE THIS, BROTHER!
Serpentine
Banned
Rikishi is alive bruh
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I don't think it's stupid. People loved that team a lot. Just because they weren't getting title shots doesn't mean people didn't love the gimmick. People flipped a shit every time the Worm happened.
And like I said, Rikishi was considered part of Too Cool. Just because it didn't start with him doesn't mean he was never a part of it. Even the Wikipedia page says that it was a tag team and occasionally a faction because of the addition of Rikishi.
plagiarize
Banned
Yeah, I saw and edited, and have never been happier to be flat out wrong.
dream
Member
I think there's a crucial distinction between being over and being a draw, and Too Cool is a great example of that. They got massive pops, people spelled out worm, and their dance got a great reaction, but they were never guys anyone would pay to see.
In that regard, Too Cool is really an early version of Daniel Bryan.
In that regard, Too Cool is really an early version of Daniel Bryan.
plagiarize
Banned
Too Cool and Rikish was the name of that faction. What did they call the tag team that was Scotty 2 Hotty and Rikishi that wrestled a few years later? They called it Scotty 2 Hotty and Rikishi:
http://www.wwe.com/classics/titlehistory/wwetag/330120
What did they call it whenever Scotty 2 Hotty, Grand Master Sexay and Rikishi appeared together? Too Cool and Rikishi.
http://www.wwe.com/shows/raw/2014-01-06/too-cool-rikishi-3mb-photos
I could get you a million examples.
Wall o' quotes/replies coming off the top rope:
Came to post this.
Watched it last night. That show alone is worth my $10.
This. And I was genuinely excited whenever he'd hit the mic. His performance was solid and unique each week, even though his freshness lent to all of that.
Not to say I'm completely bored with him these days. I don't mind his Superface status, and he's still fairly entertaining. But like most, I don't agree with his "of all-time" status, ala winning world titles left and right. His era, for me, will be very forgettable in terms of that.
I concur with this.
No...just, no. He looked like he just crawled out of a nuclear reactor. BC looked pretty good.
And that match was a trainwreck. No pace. No real good spots. Just a semi-squash of two guys that deserved a little better for helping out the card.
That ep was fantastic. Brought back so many great (and horrible) memories. As well as they shared some awesome stuff I didn't know. Keep these coming, please!!!
You have zero recollection of this time, my friend...
yup.
Even though their work wasn't great, they were absurdly over for it. They were nothing but spot monkeys...but it worked hard.
Relax. No need to toss this sort of stuff into the mix. We're disagreeing and trying to prove otherwise. The material is a bit subjective, but I agree with the others in saying that they were a hotter tag team ticket than the Dudleys, E&C and the Hardys; with the Hardys being their closest competition.
Excellent points.
Came to post this.
Watched it last night. That show alone is worth my $10.
This. And I was genuinely excited whenever he'd hit the mic. His performance was solid and unique each week, even though his freshness lent to all of that.
Not to say I'm completely bored with him these days. I don't mind his Superface status, and he's still fairly entertaining. But like most, I don't agree with his "of all-time" status, ala winning world titles left and right. His era, for me, will be very forgettable in terms of that.
I concur with this.
No...just, no. He looked like he just crawled out of a nuclear reactor. BC looked pretty good.
And that match was a trainwreck. No pace. No real good spots. Just a semi-squash of two guys that deserved a little better for helping out the card.
That ep was fantastic. Brought back so many great (and horrible) memories. As well as they shared some awesome stuff I didn't know. Keep these coming, please!!!
You have zero recollection of this time, my friend...
yup.
Even though their work wasn't great, they were absurdly over for it. They were nothing but spot monkeys...but it worked hard.
Relax. No need to toss this sort of stuff into the mix. We're disagreeing and trying to prove otherwise. The material is a bit subjective, but I agree with the others in saying that they were a hotter tag team ticket than the Dudleys, E&C and the Hardys; with the Hardys being their closest competition.
Excellent points.
Serpentine
Banned
He's looking more and more like his dad, and looking like Jerry Lawler is never good
lol agreed...
plagiarize
Banned
I guess this gets to the crux of it. I'd say that means they weren't as over with audiences as the other tag teams people were paying to see, but I can see why people would argue differently.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
And don't forget the New Age Outlaws, the Two-man Power Trip, Rock and Sock Connection and the APA were around that time as well. That's not even mentioning the Hollys, Mideon and Viscera, X-pac and Kane, Kientai, the Right to Censor, the J.O.B. Squad, the Brothers of Destruction, Godfather and Val Venis, T and A (Test and Albert) etc. etc..
It was crazy-strong at the time. Not all of these teams were more over than Too Cool, but some were. It was a very competitive time, and I remember Too Cool being very over with some crowds, and not in others. But I might be remembering it wrong.
The Fronde
Member
I can see that
plagiarize
Banned
I haven't forgotten those other teams, but Too Cool were certainly more over than your 'that's not even mentioning' list. Thanks for having my back somewhat though. Again, I'm not saying Too Cool weren't over, I know they were.
It was E+C, The Dudleys and The Hardys that made that division a draw for a few brief years around that time. 2000/2001 was the height of that. I'll always see those guys as being on a higher tier than other popular teams of the time I guess.
You still don't have one of your tag champs lie down for that long after a bulldog from Scotty 2 Hotty when trying to build them up as a legitimate talent in front of a whole bunch of first time viewers. You just don't.
Spider from Mars
tap that thorax
I think it's 2
DyslexicAlucard
Member
Since he countered, isn't the implication that he was playing possum? In that case, it really wouldn't matter how long he stayed down.
Also, the Brothers of Destruction were way more over than Too Cool. Truthfact.
Edit: Also, whoever said Rikishi is separate from Too Cool (it may have been you) is correct. He was always billed as an additional team member, not a part of Too Cool. He was very closely related, yes. But he was never a part of the team in earnest.
Oh no, Gene is out of a job...
1-900-909-9900!!!!!!!
Dude you are wasting such good gif opportunity. You could have created 20gb gif of that very scene on your television using gifcam!
Oh no, Gene is out of a job...
1-900-909-9900!!!!!!!
Ross Report is still active. Suck it Mean Gene!
JR got dem scoops
plagiarize
Banned
While we're on the subject of stupid finishers 
I hate the 619 as well although I think Rey is still a great talent even if he's quite a few years past his best. I hate how many times in his matches guys end up hung up in those ropes seemingly through pure chance. When Rey trips them into the ropes... that's fine, but anytime anyone is feuding with Rey, they suddenly start slipping on banana peels into the perfect position for the 619.
I don't mind colourful characters. I don't only like people with good in ring work. What I don't like as a viewer, is stuff that breaks my suspension of disbelief. Not much does. I've been following wrestling a long time, but for me, those stupid 619 set ups, or those moments where people just stop moving for ridiculous periods of time, are as harmful to my enjoyment of the product as a wrestler flopping after a punch that came nowhere near them.
I hate the 619 as well although I think Rey is still a great talent even if he's quite a few years past his best. I hate how many times in his matches guys end up hung up in those ropes seemingly through pure chance. When Rey trips them into the ropes... that's fine, but anytime anyone is feuding with Rey, they suddenly start slipping on banana peels into the perfect position for the 619.I don't mind colourful characters. I don't only like people with good in ring work. What I don't like as a viewer, is stuff that breaks my suspension of disbelief. Not much does. I've been following wrestling a long time, but for me, those stupid 619 set ups, or those moments where people just stop moving for ridiculous periods of time, are as harmful to my enjoyment of the product as a wrestler flopping after a punch that came nowhere near them.
Not having seen them before, I have no idea if that's the sort of thing they do, but the way the commentators put them over didn't make it sound like they were a sneaky team, more of a 'roll right over people' team. If I was meant to get that from the match, then they either needed to better sell it in the ring, or have the commentators at least float the possibility. I don't know if they could really afford a loss right now, but put Cody and Goldust in that match instead, and I think your tag champs would come out of it looking impressive, which a win over Too Cool didn't do. You put someone in with Too Cool in this day and age, and unless they outright demolish them, you aren't doing that team any favors. IMHO.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Agreed. Anybody who says Too Cool wasn't over either A) wasn't actively watching at the point or B) one of the same people who say Goldberg wasn't as over as Brock Lesnar.
I just saw that pic elsewhere, I didn't take it. Trust me, I'm getting ready to go gif crazy as soon as I get a chance to really sit down with this thing, haha.
plagiarize
Banned
Again, I'm not saying they weren't over. I'm saying they weren't AS over as E+C, The Dudleys and The Hardys were that year.
And I'm also saying Rikishi was much more over than Too Cool ever were. That's why he got separate billing. Hence me pointing out that contrary to what some people think, Rikishi was never part of Too Cool, just allied with them for a time, and billed as such during it (and as recently as last month).
Goldberg was definitely hella over at his peak. And I was actively watching in 2000. I was even staying up late to watch the PPVs live in the UK.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
While we're on the subject of stupid finishers
I don't mind colourful characters. I don't only like people with good in ring work. What I don't like as a viewer, is stuff that breaks my suspension of disbelief. Not much does. I've been following wrestling a long time, but for me, those stupid 619 set ups, or those moments where people just stop moving for ridiculous periods of time, are as harmful to my enjoyment of the product as a wrestler flopping after a punch that came nowhere near them.
Not having seen them before, I have no idea if that's the sort of thing they do, but the way the commentators put them over didn't make it sound like they were a sneaky team, more of a 'roll right over people' team. If I was meant to get that from the match, then they either needed to better sell it in the ring, or have the commentators at least float the possibility. I don't know if they could really afford a loss right now, but put Cody and Goldust in that match instead, and I think your tag champs would come out of it looking impressive, which a win over Too Cool didn't do. You put someone in with Too Cool in this day and age, and unless they outright demolish them, you aren't doing that team any favors. IMHO.
On a related note, it's the same reason I hate a large build-up of moves before a finisher, with Cena's Five Moves of Doom being the perfect example. Why does his opponent swing at him every time in order to set up the backbody drop? Even people who rarely punch do it, and it's annoying.
plagiarize
Banned
for my wife its whenever people ridiculously telegraph a back body drop after whipping someone into the ropes. That doesn't bother me personally.
A couple are up. I'm sure the rest will get added in time. I hope they do new ones. Without Michael Hayes.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
Also annoying is when someone is setting up a "surprise" or something, like hitting a person with a chair from behind, the entire audience is losing their shit aaaaaaand... no reaction from the one about to get hit. Like, really, they aren't going to wonder what's up?
Serpentine
Banned
i wish they didn't have finishes available on their own that spoil matches. it's not a big deal, but i like not knowing.
Trying to watch RR 1999, but Boss Man/Road Dogg is terrible
Trying to watch RR 1999, but Boss Man/Road Dogg is terrible
Metal_slime
Banned
This is the most anyone has debated the merits of Too Cool in like 14 years.
Host Samurai
Member
While we're on the subject of stupid finishers
I don't mind colourful characters. I don't only like people with good in ring work. What I don't like as a viewer, is stuff that breaks my suspension of disbelief. Not much does. I've been following wrestling a long time, but for me, those stupid 619 set ups, or those moments where people just stop moving for ridiculous periods of time, are as harmful to my enjoyment of the product as a wrestler flopping after a punch that came nowhere near them.
.
QFT
I feel like thats how most of the current roster is. You can call spots from miles away because most of the current talent have awful ring IQ. They may be more athletic than the guys in the 80's but their ring IQ is as dumb as Eugene
While we're on the subject of stupid finishers
Cmon, son!
Just like how everyone...
...stays down for the People's Elbow.
...stays down for the Big Legdrop.
...stops while in the grips of the chokeslam.
...charges with a clothesline vs <your choice of favorite wrestler> Moves of Doom.
It's all part of the package. Not trying to bust your balls or anything. I just find it challenging any part of the "suspend belief" part of wrestling and yet, still being supportive of other examples.
plagiarize
Banned
you've listed most of my least favorite finishers. The worm is arguably the most egregious example of the bunch, but I loathe them all. Give me something that can get hit out of nowhere OR can have a big build up when its earned... Not something that ALWAYS needs a big build up like the above. Personal tastes.
for the record, I love the Rock, hate Hogan, think people are overly hard on Cena when he works well with almost everyone, and think Taker gets the exact amount of credit he deserves. Heck I think that Kane is pretty good. Freezing in a chokeslam is the only one I would argue is different, because they usually play it as a moment of shock, and a moment of realizing you are in trouble, which I totally buy.
how many times after Scotty hits that bulldog or Cena lays out his opponent could a ref have done a ten count? Its just daft imho.
unlike other people I think its only an occasional problem, that only applies to a small amount of the roster.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
I can confirm that it works on at least two devices simultaneously and they can be completely different IP addresses miles apart.
It's not a last man standing match, why would the ref do that. Only usually happens in normal matches when some beast like Cesaro kicks the shit out of a jobber and is like "he's done, give him a count". Scotty 2 Hotty would never do that, not when there's dancing to be done.
A lot of these complaints are just things you notice when you watch a lot of wrestling. Don't get annoyed by it, lads. Embrace it. It's part of the silliness. 619, Worm, People's Elbow, whatever. Predictable heel turns where the guy getting attacked is the last to see it coming. Only thing that's a bit weird is when a wrestler jumps off the top rope and the other guy sticks his foot in the air to kick him because I have no idea what the other guy's trying to do.
JPeeples83
Member
Going through the '89 Great American Bash now since it's one of my first VHS tape buys and this thing brings about that same kind of excitement. I'm glad to say that as a kid, I never thought the Dudes were the least bit cool. The lighting is also near-ROH levels at the rampway, you can barely see a damn thing. They've got an NWA #1 WWF STINKS sign blurred, so I guess they haven't quite unblurred all of the archives. Watching Muta-Sting still gives me chills with Muta's intro. I just thought that was the coolest thing ever when I was 10, and it still rules. Jim Ross alternating between karate and judo chops is amusing. I wonder if Ronda will bust out any judo chops soon.
I love how Muta takes basic moves and makes them his own with little finger motions. That stood out for the sleeper, while the power drive elbow remains a classic. I'd forgotten just how agile Sting was, and he busted out those measured Hennig dropkicks. While I still hate the double pin finish, I do love how they spent so much time talking about it. I had no recollection of the finish getting a giant "bullshit" chant. Even in '89, Lex Luger looked 40. Steamboat's intro still rules, minus him dressing up the komodo dragon as a member of Demolition. I originally thought that the Freebirds jumped the shirt with the neon '90s...but nah, Hayes in bright gold kills them just as well. Dr. Death in Hogan gear is hilarious.
I love how Muta takes basic moves and makes them his own with little finger motions. That stood out for the sleeper, while the power drive elbow remains a classic. I'd forgotten just how agile Sting was, and he busted out those measured Hennig dropkicks. While I still hate the double pin finish, I do love how they spent so much time talking about it. I had no recollection of the finish getting a giant "bullshit" chant. Even in '89, Lex Luger looked 40. Steamboat's intro still rules, minus him dressing up the komodo dragon as a member of Demolition. I originally thought that the Freebirds jumped the shirt with the neon '90s...but nah, Hayes in bright gold kills them just as well. Dr. Death in Hogan gear is hilarious.