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WWE Network |OT| $9.99 PPVs, that's gonna put some butts in the seats

C

CartridgeBlower

Member
What was Bischoff's claim to fame before the NWO? Was he just the head WCW booker? Was he considered good? Because being a casual wrestling fan I was always surprised how quickly they got rid of him for Russo, especially after WCW's success during 96-97.
 
K

kirblar

Member
CartridgeBlower said:
What was Bischoff's claim to fame before the NWO? Was he just the head WCW booker? Was he considered any good? Because I'm always surprised how they got rid of him for Russo, it seemed kind of quick at least to give him the axe after all their success.
Click to expand...
Bischoff basically had the NWO idea and nothing else, and ran it into the ground until it stopped working.

Russo was a guy who really, really needed an editor.
 
S

strobogo

Banned
geomon said:
I've learned a lot from the network. For instance, I was watching the MSG show from 03/17/75 and I realized that not only did Hulk Hogan steal from Superstar Billy Graham, he also aped Ivan Putski with the hand to the ear and then point at the crowd thing.
Click to expand...

Hulk stole EVERYTHING from Billy Graham. Like, everything. From promo style to look to specific verbal ticks (Superstar said brother all the time) to move set. I think he ended up stealing even more once he went Hollywood, with the blonde mustache/dark beard combo, tie dyed tights and boots. Dusty Rhodes also took a lot from Superstar, who both took a lot from Muhammad Ali, who took a lot from Gorgeous George.


And in a similar manner, Ric Flair whole sale copied Buddy Rogers, who took most of his act directly from Gorgeous George as well. You look at all the people who Hogan and Flair inspired (and who was inspired by HBK) and it really is a pretty straight line back to Gorgeous George.
 
C

CartridgeBlower

Member
kirblar said:
Bischoff basically had the NWO idea and nothing else, and ran it into the ground until it stopped working.

Russo was a guy who really, really needed an editor.
Click to expand...

So Bischoff was essentially a one-trick pony? He never had any followup ideas?

And Russo was a guy with lots of ideas, just no filter to keep the bad ones out?
 
K

kirblar

Member
CartridgeBlower said:
So Bischoff was essentially a one-trick pony? He never had any followup ideas?

And Russo was a guy with lots of ideas, just no filter to keep the bad ones out?
Click to expand...
I *think* the NWO thing was a Japanese angle he re-used, if memory serves. So more like... no original ideas.

Russo never really had the success he had in WWE anywhere else, despite multiple attempts. And the WWE product got better after he left (and Chris Kreski took over), leading into the absurdly good run it had from late '99 to the Angle-HHH match (which marked the start of Steph's run as creative head.)
 
S

strobogo

Banned
Bischoff kind of lucked into his role as VP at WCW. He had been an announcer for WCW and did some booking for dying AWA and got the promotion because he was young, good looking, and had a yuppie attitude that was more what Turner was looking for instead of businessmen and wrestling people. Before the NWO, his biggest moves were getting Hogan and friends into WCW and starting Nitro. He was never really the head writer in the sense that Vince has never been the head writer for WWE. Kevin Sullivan was really the main booker/writer during the peak NWO stuff.

NWO idea was stolen from an angle going on in New Japan Pro Wrestling (which had a working relationship with WCW). He was removed in 1999 because ratings were tanking, buy rates were dropping, and he couldn't come up with anything new besides "Let's reform the NWO" and "Let's bring back Hulkamania". So they brought Russo in, since Russo was the head writer during WWE's biggest period, only they didn't have anyone like Vince McMahon to keep him in check. So they got rid of him in 3 months, then brought Bischoff back, then brought Russo back and their big plan was to...form a giant heel group that is trying to take over the company.
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Bischoff was also according to most around WCW in 1999 an absentee leader spending more time trying to cash in on his success with the company and find a hollywood job and living large on Turner's dime than putting any attention into the product. Perhaps he knew that giving all those giant egos huge guaranteed money and creative control and allowing them to fill the halls with their cronies also getting far beyond their normal pay scale wasn't the best idea.

Plus there's just so many other little bits of oversight that really cost them over the years. Plane tickets for everyone on the roster even if they weren't booked for any shows in the region, signing tons of people who never appeared on the show, all those 1999 music acts and b tier celebrities. It wasn't inmates running that asylum, it was no one.
 
L

Liu Kang Baking A Pie

Member
Just watch the Smackdown intro where it shows all the talent that show had at the beginning of the Brock/Angle Iron Man episode. What a fucking roster.

I also didn't remember how they have always booked Brock as a "special attraction" so you know his appearances usually meant some real shit was going down. Heyman knows his characters. Brock throws the ring steps at Steph who ducks out of the way. It's nuts.
 
S

strobogo

Banned
Man God said:
Bischoff was also according to most around WCW in 1999 an absentee leader spending more time trying to cash in on his success with the company and find a hollywood job and living large on Turner's dime than putting any attention into the product. Perhaps he knew that giving all those giant egos huge guaranteed money and creative control and allowing them to fill the halls with their cronies also getting far beyond their normal pay scale wasn't the best idea.

Plus there's just so many other little bits of oversight that really cost them over the years. Plane tickets for everyone on the roster even if they weren't booked for any shows in the region, signing tons of people who never appeared on the show, all those 1999 music acts and b tier celebrities. It wasn't inmates running that asylum, it was no one.
Click to expand...

He was sent home for a lot of 1999, getting paid to stay away.
 
R

Ric Flair

Banned
Man God said:
Bischoff was also according to most around WCW in 1999 an absentee leader spending more time trying to cash in on his success with the company and find a hollywood job and living large on Turner's dime than putting any attention into the product. Perhaps he knew that giving all those giant egos huge guaranteed money and creative control and allowing them to fill the halls with their cronies also getting far beyond their normal pay scale wasn't the best idea.

Plus there's just so many other little bits of oversight that really cost them over the years. Plane tickets for everyone on the roster even if they weren't booked for any shows in the region, signing tons of people who never appeared on the show, all those 1999 music acts and b tier celebrities. It wasn't inmates running that asylum, it was no one.
Click to expand...

Hearing some of the things ex-WCW wrestlers have to say about the company at that time really makes you scratch your head as to how they stayed afloat so long. Case in Point: Chris Jericho receiving an empty Fed-Ex box in the mail from Turner offices.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Ric Flair said:
Hearing some of the things ex-WCW wrestlers have to say about the company at that time really makes you scratch your head as to how they stayed afloat so long. Case in Point: Chris Jericho receiving an empty Fed-Ex box in the mail from Turner offices.
Click to expand...
Knowing the WWF/WCW history has made the Marvel/DC situation make so much more sense. It's an almost 1:1 analogue, except Marvel didn't fall apart after becoming successful. (at least, not yet.)
 
S

strobogo

Banned
WCW stayed open as long as it did 100% because Ted Turner wouldn't allow it to go under. There was also some wacky accounting going on with the company as to how it related to the over all Turner corporation. As soon as Ted Turner was out of power, WCW went on the selling block. It should have been closed down well before the NWO considering they had never made a profit until I think 1995 or 1996.
 
R

Rapstah

Member
It's weird how the version of the Jeff Hardy/RVD InVasion match they play between programs is censored so no WWF logos show but the actual InVasion PPV they have up isn't censored. Did they start making the bumper content in 2011?
 
M

Mr. Enigma

Member
CartridgeBlower said:
What was Bischoff's claim to fame before the NWO? Was he just the head WCW booker? Was he considered good? Because being a casual wrestling fan I was always surprised how quickly they got rid of him for Russo, especially after WCW's success during 96-97.
Click to expand...

Bischoff took over WCW at the end of 1993. His first big moves were to bring in former WWF people like Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Jim Duggan, Mean Gene Okerlund, Bobby Heenan, The Nasty Boys, Earthquake, Big Bossman, Haku, and even Repo Man.
 
I

Into

Member
The ideas that sorta worked from Bischoff were ideas that were copied from the nWo aka stables, he had the Ravens Flock, LWO, Wolfpac and many more, he seemed very fond of stables.

He turned WCW into almost gang warfare, groups fighting groups, run ins, DQs etc. He had no real appreciation for the idea of this being a sport, or rather pseudo sport. Its why good wrestlers never thrived under him, he wanted TV characters for his gang warfare show.
 
T

Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!

Member
Rapstah said:
It's pretty even until April 1996: then Raw basically beats Nitro for two months, and then WCW beats WWF from July '96 to April '97. Bash at the Beach was in July.

Basing this off this site which could obviously be bullshit.
Click to expand...

Well, if you count everything from the debut of Nitro to the show before BATB, Nitro won 22 times, Raw won 17, there was one tie, and four shows ran unopposed. It's not exactly the drubbing they gave them for two years after the NWO, but they still clearly won more times. Not bad for a company who was clearly inferior to the WWF in the early 90s.
 
R

Ric Flair

Banned
Into said:
The ideas that sorta worked from Bischoff were ideas that were copied from the nWo aka stables, he had the Ravens Flock, LWO, Wolfpac and many more, he seemed very fond of stables.

He turned WCW into almost gang warfare, groups fighting groups, run ins, DQs etc. He had no real appreciation for the idea of this being a sport, or rather pseudo sport. Its why good wrestlers never thrived under him, he wanted TV characters for his gang warfare show.
Click to expand...

It was a pretty well executed concept (at least in the beginning) though, you have to give him that. Even if he was a one-trick pony, he was a pretty damn good one
 
S

strobogo

Banned
Into said:
The ideas that sorta worked from Bischoff were ideas that were copied from the nWo aka stables, he had the Ravens Flock, LWO, Wolfpac and many more, he seemed very fond of stables.

He turned WCW into almost gang warfare, groups fighting groups, run ins, DQs etc. He had no real appreciation for the idea of this being a sport, or rather pseudo sport. Its why good wrestlers never thrived under him, he wanted TV characters for his gang warfare show.
Click to expand...

I don't think he intended for that to happen, but since the big stable had been working for them, it seemed reasonable to have other ones. The Flock was an established thing with Raven in ECW and came along with him. The Wolfpac and LWO both came in 1998 and were dead by 1999. The LWO was a joke group anyway. WCW had traditionally had at least one dominant stable at any given time from 1986 on.

Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! said:
Well, if you count everything from the debut of Nitro to the show before BATB, Nitro won 22 times, Raw won 17, there was one tie, and four shows ran unopposed. It's not exactly the drubbing they gave them for two years after the NWO, but they still clearly won more times. Not bad for a company who was clearly inferior to the WWF in the early 90s.
Click to expand...

Early 90s WCW blew early 90s WWF away in the ring. It can't even be argued unless you've never seen that era of WCW and go based on how it looks. Both companies had some really shitty guys and gimmicks during that time frame, but WCW was so much better in the ring from 1991-1993 and into 1994. It all went to shit once Hogan and friends came in until the cruiserweights took off, and then WCW also had a 2-3 year stretch of having better in ring action.
 
E

elektrixx

Banned
Vee_One said:
So, has it been determined if this is easy to get in Australia?
Click to expand...

It's mostly unplayable for me. The live video has never worked. Some older 4:3 video loads for about three seconds and never finishes buffering. Newer 16:9 broadcasts are usually fine, but sometimes it refuses to stay at a watchable quality.

Random stuff works is what I'm saying. I've never been able to watch ECW or Legends Of Wrestling.
 
T

Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!

Member
strobogo said:
Early 90s WCW blew early 90s WWF away in the ring. It can't even be argued unless you've never seen that era of WCW and go based on how it looks. Both companies had some really shitty guys and gimmicks during that time frame, but WCW was so much better in the ring from 1991-1993 and into 1994. It all went to shit once Hogan and friends came in until the cruiserweights took off, and then WCW also had a 2-3 year stretch of having better in ring action.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean in ring, I should have been more clear. Early 90s WCW wasn't supposed to be in the WWFs league popularity wise so for them to beat the WWF 22 of their first 17 times before Bash at the Beach head to head is quite the accomplishment.
 
R

Ric Flair

Banned
Also, didn't Bischoff come up with the Goldberg character? As much as people shit on him today, back in the day he was pretty fucking massive
 
S

strobogo

Banned
krae_man said:
Are there any documentaries on there yet? I started a free trial and there doesn't seem to be a documentary category.
Click to expand...

So far, Rock, Austin, and Bret vs Shawn documentaries are up. I think an NWO one as well or will be soon. They're under Originals: Beyond The Ring.
 
R

Rapstah

Member
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! said:
I didn't mean in ring, I should have been more clear. Early 90s WCW wasn't supposed to be in the WWFs league popularity wise so for them to beat the WWF 22 of their first 17 times before Bash at the Beach head to head is quite the accomplishment.
Click to expand...

This is a fair point. It's not like the NWO got WCW's viewers from 0 to millions.
 
tekumseh

tekumseh

a mass of phermones, hormones and adrenaline just waiting to explode
It's still incredible to realize that there were weeks when wrestling was drawing nearly an 11 rating combined. Just amazing...
 
R

Ric Flair

Banned
Rapstah said:
This is a fair point. It's not like the NWO got WCW's viewers from 0 to millions.
Click to expand...

WCW had a pretty strong following that vanished when it was bought out. I always wonder if Vince was surprised by that, if he expected his viewership to exponentially grow after purchasing WCW or if he simply wanted to put the axe to the competition
 
T

Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!

Member
Also, I don't think Bischoff was technically the booker (although I think he might have been when he came back the second time), I think his title was President of WCW. I think guys like Paul Orndorff, Terry Taylor, and Kevin Sullivan were the bookers back then, although Bischoff obviously had a say and deserves credit/blame. I think for instance Paul Orndorff was the one that came up with the NWO logo.
 
B

BobTheFork

Member
geomon said:
I've learned a lot from the network. For instance, I was watching the MSG show from 03/17/75 and I realized that not only did Hulk Hogan steal from Superstar Billy Graham, he also aped Ivan Putski with the hand to the ear and then point at the crowd thing.
Click to expand...
They even took his theme music from US Express, the Tag Team that was using it first.
 
G

geomon

Member
Ric Flair said:
WCW had a pretty strong following that vanished when it was bought out. I always wonder if Vince was surprised by that, if he expected his viewership to exponentially grow after purchasing WCW or if he simply wanted to put the axe to the competition
Click to expand...

Pretty sure, if I'm remembering correctly, Vince had wanted to put on WCW seperate shows, kind of like with how he did with ECW years later. Then Booker T vs. Buff Bagwell happened on RAW....yeah.
 
R

Rapstah

Member
BobTheFork said:
They even took his theme music from US Express, the Tag Team that was using it first.
Click to expand...

After Barry Windham left the WWF, yeah. It's probably more of a "we spent money on this fucking song" situation than it is Hulk Hogan menacingly walking into the US Express locker room, stealing their song, brother.
 
P

Pop-O-Matic

Banned
Rapstah said:
After Barry Windham left the WWF, yeah. It's probably more of a "we spent money on this fucking song" situation than it is Hulk Hogan menacingly walking into the US Express locker room, stealing their song, brother.
Click to expand...

They did make a song for Hulk himself, but apparently it didn't go over well so they just sold it to Bonnie Tyler.
 
C

Chamber

love on your sleeve
Being a Buff Bagwell mark is the most embarrassing part of my childhood.
idXDeUO4L3Ia9.png
 
C

cr_blah_blah

Member
He mentioned on a Miami sports talk show last week how he charges $500/hour and something like $20k for a weekend. And that he decides what happens during that time (sex up to him essentially), they just pay for his company, not activities. He also says being a gigalo was his wife's idea and it was an "accident".
 
T

The Bookerman

Member
Mr. Enigma said:
Bischoff took over WCW at the end of 1993. His first big moves were to bring in former WWF people like Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Jim Duggan, Mean Gene Okerlund, Bobby Heenan, The Nasty Boys, Earthquake, Big Bossman, Haku, and even Repo Man.
Click to expand...

- He asked Turner to go toe to toe with Monday Night Raw.

- He gave Raw's results on the air to make sure people wouldn't switch to raw.

- He tried to make his show the most unpredictable wrestling show on the air.
He tried to make it sound real(See Hall's invasion of Nitro).


That's some of the good stuff he did.
 
V

Vee_One

Member
elektrixx said:
It's mostly unplayable for me. The live video has never worked. Some older 4:3 video loads for about three seconds and never finishes buffering. Newer 16:9 broadcasts are usually fine, but sometimes it refuses to stay at a watchable quality.

Random stuff works is what I'm saying. I've never been able to watch ECW or Legends Of Wrestling.
Click to expand...

Bummer, that's a shame. Thanks
 
H

Host Samurai

Member
Watching Survivor Series 93 I noticed Warrior still being on the cover with Savage, Flair and Razor. They were that lazy to change it to perfect? Also why did Warrior leave so soon during his 2nd stint? After Summerslam 92 Warrior was the biggest flake. I was also so disappointed when he left because I idolized him when I was a kid
 
S

Singularity42

Member
Watching Mania 17 good lord those frosted tips on Cole look god awful.

Also I totally forgot about Right to Censor, what a botchfest of a match with APA and Taz
 
H

Host Samurai

Member
Havnt seen footage of Nailz since I was 7 years old. His promo at Survivor Series 93 was damn awesome. Very intense and believable

Everyone was great on the mic back than actually. Wrestling really was much better back than and this ain't the nostelgia talking. Just a much better product all around
 
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