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[Zoidberg Jesus]

I agree that 3 hour RAWs are too much. They should have Vince come out and say "Look, straight-up, from now on, nothing important is going to happen from 8 to 9pm on RAW. There will be wrestling, but it will be glorified dark matches that don't progress story lines or change title holders. If you want to watch a buttload of wrestling, we start at 8pm. Otherwise, be sure to tune in at 9 for all the good stuff!" I wonder if something like that would be possible under the current contract.

Spoiler

I'm joking, btw.

 

[Sephzilla]

The "Raw being 3 hours" thing is killing them on two fronts. First, it's three hours. Every Raw is as long as a PPV. Secondly, it's clearly obvious that they aren't even trying to properly fill in the 3 hours of air time. You always get these promos/segments that are WWE.com exclusive that would be fucking amazing for live TV and instead Raw gets multiple recaps of something that happened 15 minutes ago plus a 25 minute long Authority opening to the show.

 

[DeathyBoy]

I love how Vince always talks about wrestlers needing to "grab the brass ring" then when a guy does that and manages to get extremely popular on his own (Zack Ryder, Daniel Bryan), they get buried for not being the guy the WWE wants to push (since they are only capable of having one popular guy at a time)

Everyone brings up Ryder. It makes my brain hurt. Ryder was a one-note gimmick that peaked when he beat Ziggler. The chase was the story, and once he had the gold he'd have fizzled out within a month. And yet the WWE still put him into the Kane-Cena feud. Was the feud good? No. But Ryder was the worst part of it, so amateurishly fucking horrendous that he made Cena look like Olivier in comparison.

It's what separates guys like Bryan/Punk from the Ryder's and Zigglers - you give Bryan shit, and he gets it over. You give Ryder shit, and he covers the arena in shit covered shit and then cries on Twitter about it. There's a reason Ryder beat Ziggler, and they still treated Ziggler like a bigger star.

And no, Bryan wasn't buried. He'd be WWE champ now if he wasn't so injury prone. Hard to blame WWE for that.

 

[UberTag]

Is it me or the matches are going on for way too long? The guys are full of energy for about 2 minutes and then its 20 minutes of them looking at the ceiling,, suddenly recovering, pulling a crazy move, being countered, and both dudes are back on the floor for more fake agony. It never ends and it's not epic at all when it happens 5 matches in a row.

I largely blame the fact that they feel every match must have a commercial break now. Whereas during RAW's peak years that would almost never happen except during the main event.

 

[Sephzilla]

Everyone brings up Ryder. It makes my brain hurt. Ryder was a one-note gimmick that peaked when he beat Ziggler. The chase was the story, and once he had the gold he'd have fizzled out within a month. And yet the WWE still put him into the Kane-Cena feud. Was the feud good? No. But Ryder was the worst part of it, so amateurishly fucking horrendous that he made Cena look like Olivier in comparison.

It's what separates guys like Bryan/Punk from the Ryder's and Zigglers - you give Bryan shit, and he gets it over. You give Ryder shit, and he covers the arena in shit covered shit and then cries on Twitter about it. There's a reason Ryder beat Ziggler, and they still treated Ziggler like a bigger star.

And no, Bryan wasn't buried. He'd be WWE champ now if he wasn't so injury prone. Hard to blame WWE for that.

You're seriously saying Zack Ryder was the worst part of a feud that gave us Kane doing his worst Emperor Palpatine and Cena acting like this?

Ryder was not the issue with that feud.

 

[DeathyBoy]

You're seriously saying Zack Ryder was the worst part of a feud that gave us Kane doing his worst Emperor Palpatine and Cena acting like this?

Ryder was not the issue with that feud.

 

[Mookie1515]

Bring back blood and steel chairs.

Attitude Era 2.0. Let the PG era die the lame death it deserves.

 

[UberTag]

Everyone brings up Ryder. It makes my brain hurt. Ryder was a one-note gimmick that peaked when he beat Ziggler. The chase was the story, and once he had the gold he'd have fizzled out within a month. And yet the WWE still put him into the Kane-Cena feud. Was the feud good? No. But Ryder was the worst part of it, so amateurishly fucking horrendous that he made Cena look like Olivier in comparison.

 

[Violence Jack]

Needs more moments like this. One of the greatest and unexpected Raw moments ever, and the crowd exploded.

https://youtu.be/lMFyeoVmqcg?t=8m20s

 

[klonere]

Ah fuck it I'll just post it here as well.

- 3 hours is too long

- The sports part of sports entertainment is broken, as wins and losses, the fundamental element that makes sports compelling to watch, mean nothing. There is no point in even discussing the quality or style of the wrestling without first addressing this.

- The entertainment part of sports entertainment is broken as the writers and head creative figure have crafted a show that has no relation to the pop culture that surrounds the show and that should fuel it.

- The writing staff have definitively proven that they cannot write for several basic character archetypes such as: females, good guys, bad guys, returning stars etc.

- Insistence on exposing performers weaknesses and general overexposure of talent. Seth Rollins is given more TV time than The Rock or Austin had, even in relative terms to the length of the shows. Other performers are forced into situations where they are going to look bad compared to others, for no good reason, see Charlotte as a recent example.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Attitude Era 2.0. Let the PG era die the lame death it deserves.

That would draw even worse ratings.

 

[Breraa]

Eve Torres.

The reason I started watching WWE again. She is drop dead gorgeous!

 

[funkystudent]

The 3 hour show probably isnt going anywhere but it could be fixed somewhat if WWE put more effort into its lower card titles and divisions.

IC and US titles go back in fort between relevant and completely forgotten about. Same with the tag team division.

WCW Cruiserweight division is a great example of a division that was its own thing and could exist on its own. Heck even TNA does a better example keeping its lower titles always in active storylines.

Attitude Era 2.0. Let the PG era die the lame death it deserves.

Compelling TV has no age rating. WWE has had moments of greatness since the PG turn that their shitty creative team can never keep going long before ruining. (CM Punk, Brock, Some goofy Taker stuff, New Day, D Bryan's mania run)

 

[Liquidsnake]

Its simple people.

The 3rd graders who support John Cena are getting older, and they don't care anymore, and the WWE abandoned every other age group. I don't even know why I watch anymore.

NXT is 100 fold better. I feel so bad for those who get called up to the main roster, because they go from somebody to nobody.

Horrible writing, Every RAW is the same, They go to commercial in the middle of every match. I don't even recognize this genre anymore. They have gone so far off base with what it was built on its crazy.

Going public made everyone a lot of money, but it also killed everything. Vince is smart, he will be to the day he dies, but man his creative team is so bad.

 

[x Power Pad Death Stomp x]

Everyone brings up Ryder because he did what Vince claims to want: he took his zero screen time and stupid gimmick and got himself over HUGE.

I was at Raw in Boston during the height of it all, the crowd literally chanted for him all night. When they had the off tv dark match to send the fans home happy, the crowd chanted so much for Ryder that CM Punk went and got him out of the back in street clothes to hit his finisher and actually send the people home happy

Ryder wasn't ever going to be main eventing Mania, but he did what they claim they want and they did him dirty. When they were done he was buried and then wwe modeled their you tube channel after his work.

If after a guy does that he still can't get a fair shake or at least a place on the card, why on earth would you bother to get invested again?

 

[joeposh]

The best part about the current slump is the "break in case of emergency" Money in the Bank holder is... Sheamus.

There's zero anticipation behind that. Best case scenario is it becomes a running gag until Sheamus ultimately gets squashed.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Everyone brings up Ryder because he did what Vince claims to want: he took his zero screen time and stupid gimmick and got himself over HUGE.

I was at Raw in Boston during the height of it all, the crowd literally chanted for him all night. When they had the off tv dark match to send the fans home happy, the crowd chanted so much for Ryder that CM Punk went and got him out of the back in street clothes to hit his finisher and actually send the people home happy

Ryder wasn't ever going to be main eventing Mania, but he did what they claim they want and they did him dirty. When they were done he was buried and then wwe modeled heir you tube channel after his work.

If after a guy does that he still can't get a fair shake or at least a place on the card, why on earth would you bother to get invested again?

His gimmick probably went as far as it could go. WWE is not opposed to letting guys get their own shine. It's the same thing with Cesaro and the shit people give Vince about hte "Brass Ring" thing. Cesaro is a fantastic wrestler. He's fit as fuck. But his personality is a zero. It's like years later and he's still doing that lame "fist pump" move and...that's it. The counter is New Day. 3 guys saddled with a shit gimmick and they ran with it, made it their own, and got over as fuck. Maybe Cesaro doesn't have that in him, that's not his fault, not everyone is charismatic in the same way, but that probably also means that he is what he is, a solid mid-carder. Not everyone with a little hype is going to end up main eventing PPVs.

 

[Toki767]

The Ryder stuff isn't even the half of it. Vince doesn't want to give anyone credit for not being his creation/idea.

All the WCW guys from the buyout pretty much flopped with the exception of Booker T. And even then, they gave him that King Booker gimmick before putting a top title on him.

Even the early days of the Raw/Smackdown brand split. Vince's idea was to make Raw and Smackdown compete with each other with Raw always being the "A" show, but when Heyman was in charge of writing Smackdown, Smackdown was miles better than Raw and Heyman kept getting into fights with Vince and Stephanie and was then demoted and removed from being in charge of Smackdown.

The entire WWE corporate structure has sucked for years now. Fans have just started realizing it on TV the past few years and it's just now catching up with them in the ratings.

 

[DeathyBoy]

The Ryder stuff isn't even the half of it. Vince doesn't want to give anyone credit for not being his creation/idea.

All the WCW guys from the buyout pretty much flopped with the exception of Booker T. And even then, they gave him that King Booker gimmick before putting a top title on him.

Even the early days of the Raw/Smackdown brand split. Vince's idea was to make Raw and Smackdown compete with each other with Raw always being the "A" show, but when Heyman was in charge of writing Smackdown, Smackdown was miles better than Raw and Heyman kept getting into fights with Vince and Stephanie and was then demoted and removed from being in charge of Smackdown.

The entire WWE corporate structure has sucked for years now. Fans have just started realizing it on TV the past few years and it's just now catching up with them in the ratings.

In Vince's defense, King Booker was a thousand times more suited for a top run than Booker T. That entire summer with King Booker and Finlay/Regal as his knights was some great fucking television.

 

[Savitar]

Vince McMahon was responsible for all of the creative at Saturday night's live WWE Network special from Madison Square Garden.

With all the talk of Triple H taking over things backstage, Vince is still very much the man in charge and all ideas or decisions still go through him. PWInsider notes that lately when new ideas are brought up, the response is something along the lines of "we'll have to check with Vince" or "see if Vince likes it."

As the WWE TV ratings slip, Vince is apparently micro-managing creative and overseeing all aspects of the company more than usual.

 

[Plinko]

LOL at those using the "It's the PG era!" as the reason for the ratings plummeting.

Please. The reason that "Attitude era" was good had NOTHING to do with sexual content/violence/profanity and everything to do with competent writing, meaningful feuds, and strong and supported tag team/midcard divisions.

Get rid of Kevin Dunn.

 

[Dazzler]

I absolutely loathe how often they go to commercials during matches

how are you supposed to give a shit about the in-ring product when it's not even important enough to broadcast uninterrupted

 

[DeathyBoy]

LOL at those using the "It's the PG era!" as the reason for the ratings plummeting.

Please. The reason that era was good had NOTHING to do with sexual content/violence/profanity and everything to do with competent writing, meaningful feuds, and strong and supported tag team/midcard divisions.

Get rid of Kevin Dunn.

There was a strong tag team division in The Attitude Era? Because I remember NAO versus Headbangers and Godwins vs LOD.

 

[Lothars]

Going public made everyone a lot of money, but it also killed everything. Vince is smart, he will be to the day he dies, but man his creative team is so bad.

Vince is the reason the product is also so bad.

He's killing his own product and he only has himself to blame for it.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

LOL at those using the "It's the PG era!" as the reason for the ratings plummeting.

Please. The reason that "Attitude era" was good had NOTHING to do with sexual content/violence/profanity and everything to do with competent writing, meaningful feuds, and strong and supported tag team/midcard divisions.

Get rid of Kevin Dunn.

The attitude era also benefited from both WCW and WWE blurring the line between work and shoot for probably the first time. People didn't know if guys getting fired was legit or not, or if a WCW guy was going to show up on RAW, or a WWE guy on Nitro. Hell when Hall and Nash first showed up on Nitro a lot of people legit thought they were still working for Vince. You can't recreate that, not in this social media era. The minute a guy is signed/fired it's all over Twitter.

 

[jmdajr]

I absolutely loathe how often they go to commercials during matches

how are you supposed to give a shit about the in-ring product when it's not even important enough to broadcast uninterrupted

WHAT IF THE MATCH ENDs DURING THE BREAK!

 

[Plinko]

There was a strong tag team division in The Attitude Era? Because I remember NAO versus Headbangers and Godwins vs LOD.

Seriously?

Dudley Boyz, APA, D-Lo/Godfather, Too Cool, Hardy Boyz, Edge and Christian...

The attitude era also benefited from both WCW and WWE blurring the line between work and shoot for probably the first time. People didn't know if guys getting fired was legit or not, or if a WCW guy was going to show up on RAW, or a WWE guy on Nitro. Hell when Hall and Nash first showed up on Nitro a lot of people legit thought they were still working for Vince. You can't recreate that, not in this social media era. The minute a guy is signed/fired it's all over Twitter.

Also very true. The mystery is gone--everyone knows everything immediately and no real big names are switching federations.

 

[BFIB]

The current product is so bad, I've been rewatching WWF from '95 to keep me entertained.

 

[AColdDay]

The "Raw being 3 hours" thing is killing them on two fronts. First, it's three hours. Every Raw is as long as a PPV. Secondly, it's clearly obvious that they aren't even trying to properly fill in the 3 hours of air time. You always get these promos/segments that are WWE.com exclusive that would be fucking amazing for live TV and instead Raw gets multiple recaps of something that happened 15 minutes ago plus a 25 minute long Authority opening to the show.

This is what bugs me, the WWE actually makes a lot of good content and then makes it all web-exclusive. Instead of getting things that are remotely entertaining or interesting, we get either garbage or filler (mostly garbage filler).

 

[NateDrake]

The creative team is terrible. The storylines are trash and nothing ever moves forward. RAW is on a rinse and repeat cycle.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Seriously?

Dudley Boyz, APA, D-Lo/Godfather, Hardy Boyz, Edge and Christian...

Ah, my bad. My mind always assumes the Attitude Era ends by early 2000, when Austin's gone and everyone starts wrestling again. Prior to that, the tag team division was garbage

 

[joelseph]

Purchase Lucha Underground season 1 rights and bring it to WWE Network.

Profit.

 

[Archaix]

There was a strong tag team division in The Attitude Era? Because I remember NAO versus Headbangers and Godwins vs LOD.

Those are four tag teams with distinct identities and styles, and all of them were involved in storylines that were centered around their characters (with the possible exception of the Outlaws, who were just those other guys who got put into DX because they had nowhere else to be). I hated the Attitude era in WWF, but the Godwins had Sunny taking advantage of their naivety, Legion Of Doom's drug problems, Headbangers feuding with other assholes who liked terrible music but the wrong kind of terrible music, and the Outlaws had throwing more talented wrestlers in dumpsters to get over and tagging along with HHH. I can still remember those stories that I barely paid attention to, almost 20 years later.

What was the last storyline involving the Usos that was based on their character? Matadors? Lucha Dragons? What are all of their characters, other than high flying tag team with some degree of facial coverings?

Even the New Day barely have anything beyond "misguided heels thinking they know what's best for everybody but are mostly just funny guys." They can be replaced by any other young team in their feud with the Dudleys and it would make just as much sense, even if it would be far less entertaining. But that thin and well-worn character premise puts them far above anything else in the WWE tag division for years. Because at least it's a premise.

 

[crimzonflame]

They need to somehow tell stories with wrestling in the background. Something like Breaking Bad or the first season of True Detective. Oh and they need plot twists.

 

[AColdDay]

There was a strong tag team division in The Attitude Era? Because I remember NAO versus Headbangers and Godwins vs LOD.

Dude, are you joking? E&C, Hardy Boyz, Dudleys, NOA made the Tag Team division incredible.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Eve Torres.

The reason I started watching WWE again. She is drop dead gorgeous!

Welcome back, #beefmode

 

[DeathyBoy]

Dude, are you joking? E&C, Hardy Boyz, Dudleys, NOA made the Tag Team division incredible.

NAO were a great tag team... until the bell rang. Their matches are... ugly.

 

[Barrage]

Seriously?

Dudley Boyz, APA, D-Lo/Godfather, Too Cool, Hardy Boyz, Edge and Christian...



Also very true. The mystery is gone--everyone knows everything immediately and no real big names are switching federations.

Yeah, this is a great point. The tag divison in 2000 was stronger than it's been maybe ever in the history of the promotion. Don't forget the New Age Outlaws were actually together during that year as well. That's about half a dozen teams over enough to be tag champs at any given time.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

NAO was terrible

Ratings are fine, it's TV that's dying

 

[Toki767]

NAO was terrible

Ratings are fine, it's TV that's dying

Is that why the NFL is setting record TV ratings? Because TV is dying?

 

[RPGCrazied]

I hope for a day we go back to the WWF/WCW days, but know those days are long gone. I use to be an avid watcher, but haven't watched any in a few years.

 

[abundant]

Is that why the NFL is setting record TV ratings? Because TV is dying?

He's not wrong. The NFL and a few select shows are still doing strong rating wise, but that's it. Take Fox for example, everything except Empire and NFL is lucky to reach a 2.0.

 

[UberTag]

Vince is the reason the product is also so bad.

He's killing his own product and he only has himself to blame for it.

Well, he did say he wanted to inject his product with a lethal poison and that he wanted to be the one to kill his own creation. Can't say we weren't warned.

 

[Toki767]

He's not wrong. The NFL and a few select shows are still doing strong rating wise, but that's it. Take Fox for example, everything except Empire and NFL is lucky to reach a 2.0.

Make a show worth seeing live and people will watch it live. That's all there is to it and Vince is simply failing at it.

 

[Sephzilla]

I hope for a day we go back to the WWF/WCW days, but know those days are long gone. I use to be an avid watcher, but haven't watched any in a few years.

WWF buying WCW ended up being the worst thing to happen to North American professional wrestling. WCW actually forced Vince to book smart and actually listen to what fans want.

He's not wrong. The NFL and a few select shows are still doing strong rating wise, but that's it. Take Fox for example, everything except Empire and NFL is lucky to reach a 2.0.

I think this is more telling of Fox's lineup of programming more than anything else

 

[Monocle]

Who is that??? This has been bothering me all day.

 

[Gumbie]

Who is that??? This has been bothering me all day.

Hulk Hogan as "Mr. America"

 

[Angry Grimace]

Hulk Hogan

I'm 99% sure it is not. He took a lie detector test.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Is that why the NFL is setting record TV ratings? Because TV is dying?

lots of idiots with TVs like the NFL

 

[TetraxShards]

Who is that??? This has been bothering me all day.

Mr. America, who unmasked but we never saw his face.

Also, someday they will tell us who the nWo's third man was.