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[kirblar]

The "bodybuilder" era is over. The wrestlers they have now have bodybuilder physiques, but they train Olympic lifts and Crossfit for explosiveness, agility, and viable strength rather than just training to look good like the Hogan era. Pro wrestling matches are athletic as fuck right now.

There's a hugely noticeable difference between the physiques of the WWE guys and guys in TNA/LU as well. People wonder what happened to Chris Harris that caused him to blow up years back- I think we can take a very good guess.

The guys in WWE now look like real people/athletes, it's almost closer to the '70s look.

 

[funkystudent]

John Cena needs to go heel.

John Cena needs to go away.

If he becomes a dominant heel that wont change anything. He will still be a giant roadblock that all talent run up against and are never allowed pass.


Just look at his US champ run. Dude can put on great matches for sure but its come at the cost of everyone he has ever faced while holding the belt.

 

[Paracelsus]

Wtf is this shit

Don't act like this hasn't ever happened before.

 

[acrid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhBaREV0zVw

what could have been

one hour later the angle was ruined

Oh my God yes. For me, this was the night wrestling died. I couldn't believe how awesome the promo Heyman cut was, and how amazing the angle was going to be. I think my blood truly began to boil when it turned into a McMahonfest. This was the dawning of my true hatred for Stephanie.

 

[LiquidSolid]

TV has been in a golden age for about 10 years now. Shows like Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, and Game of Thrones have been seen by everyone and their mom, and people have come to expect a higher standard in regards to character building, intriguing interactions between characters, suspense, and payoffs.

Meanwhile WWE uses nonunion writers, that says it all about the pool of talent they're pulling from. They need more backstage or even pre taped segments. They need more factions, tournaments, intrigue, and some actual comedy. Pay the money for some real writers, Vince.

If they can't do that, I think their only other option is just go completely over the top with it. Max out the absurdity levels, make it fun again.

That's just what the WWE needs, more talking segments.

While they're at it, they should fire all those non-union actors they've got and pay the money for some real actors.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Need make it more violent and stop reusing the same wrestlers all the time. When you see the matches from the past, why you want to rewatch the same matches for the 5th time as well as the actual fight not being as dramatic anymore.

 

[Nerdkiller]

Need make it more violent and stop reusing the same wrestlers all the time. When you see the matches from the past, why you want to rewatch the same matches for the 5th time as well as the actual fight not being as dramatic anymore.

Ohhh, no no, we just need more of these guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3njPLuqeJiw

 

[abundant]

Need make it more violent and stop reusing the same wrestlers all the time. When you see the matches from the past, why you want to rewatch the same matches for the 5th time as well as the actual fight not being as dramatic anymore.

They don't need need to make it more violent. NXT is still good to great, and the level of violence you find there is the same you'd find in the WWE. This notion the going PG is one of the main reason for why the WWE is bad right now needs to end.

 

[Paracelsus]

They don't need violence, they need to fire all writers and hire ones that are able to make writing for at least the six-eight main event world title contenders cohesive and perfectly smooth.

There have been better years, but the closest you could use to describe it would be WWF throughout the year 2000, that's how you work your way through a mess of a season, despite the Big Slow fiasco and the McMahon family sticking their face everywhere.

It all comes to what Paul Heyman said time and time again:

- Who are these guys?
- Why are they fighting?
- Why should I care?

WWE has been failing at this since Bryan went down.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Oh my God yes. For me, this was the night wrestling died. I couldn't believe how awesome the promo Heyman cut was, and how amazing the angle was going to be. I think my blood truly began to boil when it turned into a McMahonfest. This was the dawning of my true hatred for Stephanie.

'When it turned into a McMahon fest.'

So wrestling died before Wrestlemania X7 for you, right? Because the Invasion angle was ALWAYS a McMahon fest. The last Nitro ever ended with a Shane-Vince segment no less. It's not like they swerved us with WCW vs WWF being McMahon heavy at the last moment, it always was.

 

[shanafan]

I think a 3 hour show is too long. I liked Raw better when it was just 2 hours.

I still watch the product (26 years going strong), and like the roster overall, but maybe it's time to just do 2 hours again.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

It all comes to what Paul Heyman said time and time again:

- Who are these guys?
- Why are they fighting?
- Why should I care?

- Brock Lesnar vs. Big Show
- Big Show is bored
- ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Dazzler]

can't wait to see who we get in the six man tag main event tonight

 

[IDKAboutThat]

There's an easy fix here. Let competent writers plan an interesting story arc. Why haven't they just done that? Everyone would love wrestling again and everything would be just like it used to be.

can't wait to see who we get in the six man tag main event tonight

At a guess, whoever wasn't doing anything.

 

[Lashley]

Yeah its been awful for a while

I think I last enjoyed WWE when Edge was on Smackdown and they had the La Familia angle.

Need much better writers, they have Heyman ffs, use him. He made Smackdown better than RAW for a long time and was sacked for it.

 

[Zombie James]

Here's a tip: show good wrestling. I've been down on the in-ring product for years and every time I take a chance on watching a big match it's gotten worse.

 

[The Albatross]

3 hours is ridiculous. Condense it to 2 hours, maybe even 90 minutes, and make it a GOOD 90 minutes. Move the stuff that isn't great to Smackdown, which lets you use more of your card. If you want to make more use of your talent, do those prime time WWE Network only shows like they did this week which were well received.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

There's an easy fix here. Let competent writers plan an interesting story arc. Why haven't they just done that? Everyone would love wrestling again and everything would be just like it used to be.

A) no it wouldn't be
B)they dislike long term planning that isn't based on wrestle mania. Every Raw is essentially designed to tell you the exact same thing because in their mind, long term stuff isn't beginner friendly.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I feel like the gimmicks and storylines lately are even cornier than the early '90s secondary occupation era, with evil clowns, evil garbage men, and evil dentists.

 

[Violence Jack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhBaREV0zVw

what could have been

one hour later the angle was ruined

I was in attendance that night, and many of us lost our fucking minds when RVD got in the ring. I thought this would continue the Attitude Era. Then they turned it into The Alliance with Stone Cold leading the way, and it just got stupid.

 

[arevin01]

Casual fans don't like guys like Seth or that wannabe soldier Cena. We want entertainers like Rock and Stone Cold. CM Punk was decent until he quit.

 

[Sephzilla]

Casual fans don't like guys like Seth or that wannabe soldier Cena. We want entertainers like Rock and Stone Cold. CM Punk was decent until he quit.

Part of the problem is WWE has basically fumbled the ball massively with the last two big stars that managed to breakout at all into crossover appeal. After the pipe bomb promo CM Punk became the hottest thing in professional wrestling since Austin and Rock left, and WWE responded by giving him the belt and then dropping it in favor to feud with .... Kevin Nash and HHH!?

Fast forward in time a little, Daniel Bryan is approaching "over as fuck" levels. They have him beat John Cena clean at SummerSlam, and then have him drop the belt immediately to Orton and proceed to slowly try to write him out of the story and try passing on the Yes chant to various people (including Big Show). Then when they finally realize they screwed up and write Bryan into WrestleMania 30, they take away all of the appeal his character initially had and write him as the most boring babyface possible.

Another fumble I'd probably add to the list is not pulling the trigger on a Cena heel turn during or immediately after loss to The Rock at Wrestlemania 28. In short, it's hard to find entertainers on the main program anymore because WWE constantly fucks everything up.

 

[joeposh]

Meanwhile WWE uses nonunion writers, that says it all about the pool of talent they're pulling from. They need more backstage or even pre taped segments. They need more factions, tournaments, intrigue, and some actual comedy. Pay the money for some real writers, Vince.

I have no faith in WWE being able to do this correctly. It's not just the writing either, it's the production. Compare a Lucha Underground backstage segment with something on RAW -- it's atrocious.

Here's the formula: contrived run-in, leads to a conversation or confrontation... always feels flat and poorly delivered -- no twist or surprise elements Ends with flared nostrils and an awkwardly prolonged stare down in which both parties seem about as likely to make out as they are to fight.

It's laughable and embarrassing to watch.

One thing the WWE used to do VERY well was keep talents in separate lanes and use backstage segments to play off history or tease brewing feuds. They were able to do that because they protected interactions. Now everyone has been in a 6 man tag together in the past few months and they lob tweets back and forth to create a "buzz".

It's symptomatic of the general lack of creativity and long term vision within the company right now.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Recent noteworthy title changes on WWE television...

- WWE Championship - has not changed hands on television since the impromptu tournament held on RAW on July 25th, 2011 after CM Punk won the belt at Money in the Bank 2011 (one of the last great non-Mania PPVs) and took off with it. Rey Mysterio won the tournament and then immediately jobbed to Cena to make the tournament look like trash. The title has since been redesigned twice and merged into the WWE World Heavyweight Championship.

- World Heavyweight Championship (retired) - last changed hands during the RAW After WrestleMania when Ziggler cashed in his briefcase on Del Rio after he defeated Swagger and Zeb in a 2-on-1 handicap match and they laid him out afterwards. Del Rio himself had won the title during a Smackdown taping earlier that same year in January after defeating The Big Show in a Last Man Standing match two weeks before the Rumble.

- WWE Intercontinental Championship - actually changed hands on TV earlier this year when Bad News Barrett won his 5th meaningless Intercontinental championship in front of a terrible (surprise surprise) Corpus Christi crowd after defeating Dolph Ziggler in a "2 out of 3 falls" match during the first RAW of 2015. He would then trade wins with Sin Cara in an already forgotten feud and then fail to pin or submit anyone else during his reign except for one match on RAW against Damien Mizdow thanks to interference from The Miz.

- WWE United States Championship - last changed hands on RAW in May 2014 during a battle royal of all things even though the championship had not been vacated and was still largely carried around as prop jewelry and never defended by Dean Ambrose for close to a year. This was during The Authority's post-Extreme Rules feud with The Shield which eventually led to Evolution coming back together. (Oh, and not that it matters, but Sheamus won the battle royal.)

- WWE Tag Team Championship - the Usos won both of their tag championships on Monday Night RAW during 2014; the first ended the 5-week joke reign of The New Age Outlaws and the second ended the 5-week joke reign of Miz & Mizdow. How exciting!

- WWE Divas Championship - AJ Lee and Paige were playing hot potato with the belt post-Mania during the spring of 2014 and each won the belt on RAW; Paige's victory on the RAW After WrestleMania ended AJ Lee's infamous record for longest reign as Divas champ that the WWE went out of their way to erase with Nikki Bella earlier this year.

If this is true, what he hell has Vince been smoking?

 

[Gaffy Goober]

I think the biggest problem nowadays is the fact that the WWE themselves forgot their own slogan :

"Anything can happen in the WWE."

Nowadays nothing happens in the WWE.

 

[Uno Venova]

One thing the WWE used to do VERY well was keep talents in separate lanes and use backstage segments to play off history or tease brewing feuds. They were able to do that because they protected interactions. Now everyone has been in a 6 man tag together in the past few months and they lob tweets back and forth to create a "buzz".

It's symptomatic of the general lack of creativity and long term vision within the company right now.

This is one of my biggest problems, one night of randomly checking Raw and I see Sasha vs Paige in a singles match, shit like that should never happen with no buildup on a Raw, even NXT gets this.

 

[Bluekaveli]

Yeah its been awful for a while

I think I last enjoyed WWE when Edge was on Smackdown and they had the La Familia angle.

Need much better writers, they have Heyman ffs, use him. He made Smackdown better than RAW for a long time and was sacked for it.

That was my shit. Chavito was ECW champion. Edge was WHC. Zack Ryder and what's his face were Tag Team Champions. Vickie was the 2nd most over heel. Please stop taking me back to high school 😢. I might have to pull the vhs out

 

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

John Cena needs to go away.

If he becomes a dominant heel that wont change anything. He will still be a giant roadblock that all talent run up against and are never allowed pass.


Just look at his US champ run. Dude can put on great matches for sure but its come at the cost of everyone he has ever faced while holding the belt.

Agreed.

It's not a surprised where the ratings are. The lack of talent or inadequate use of it has dug them into a hole.

You know it's bad when they rely on a part timer to hold the top title on the show from Summerslam all the way to Wrestlemania. There was no guarantee that you would see the WWE champion on the show every week. Since when was the last time that has happened?

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

I wish the deal to move Smackdown to USA included Raw going back to two hours. =\

If this is true, what he hell has Vince been smoking?

Vince is now a 70 year old man and I wouldn't be surprised if he's been going senile over the last decade or so. It's weird how people seem to get punished or have nothing do with them if they break out without the company's backing. Dean Ambrose was arguably the most over member of the Shield yet ever since the group's break up he's been turned into a joke or at best Roman Reign's "little buddy" even though he's actually taller than him. Someone gets hot and it seems like the company does whatever it can to kill their heat if their name isn't Cena. But that's Vince, he's always tried to ride one horse until it broke down and really lucked out in the late 90s with all the guys they had who become big but since then it really hasn't happened. It's weird and everyone since then has pretty much been hand picked instead of it happening organically with the exception maybe being Cena. Not to mention how easily Vince will get board with someone or when things do happen organically they do something to stamp themselves on it and run it into the ground.

He really shouldn't be in creative control anymore, it seems he's trying to do a show that entertains him just as he's always seemed to be hung up on guys with a certain look. Then there's Kevin Dunn who they really need to desperately force into retirement so someone new can come on and freshen up their beyond stale presentation.

Oh and yeah, wins don't matter and psychology is borderline non-existent. As good as Bayley/Sasha was everyone involved with the main roster should be embarrassed that NXT shows them up watching NXT and then seeing the same performers called up and fizzle out just highlights how poor creative on the main roster is and it isn't a time issue it's a shitty direction issue.

 

[Vestal]

Here's a tip: show good wrestling. I've been down on the in-ring product for years and every time I take a chance on watching a big match it's gotten worse.

The athleticism is there, its just the ring psychology is no were to be found in a 1000 mile radius.

Shit thats wrong with the actual in-ring product:

1. Spot-fest
2. Excessive setup of spots.
3. Finisher spam
4. Tag team matches with no actual use of Tag Team ring generalship.
5. Devaluation of moves to were they mean nothing when done.
6. No-selling moves(Frog-Splash, DDT, Superplex)
7. Overuse of novelty moves(aka Ambrose Rope thing)

 

[UberTag]

One thing the WWE used to do VERY well was keep talents in separate lanes and use backstage segments to play off history or tease brewing feuds. They were able to do that because they protected interactions. Now everyone has been in a 6 man tag together in the past few months and they lob tweets back and forth to create a "buzz".

It's symptomatic of the general lack of creativity and long term vision within the company right now.

I love how, instead of letting feuds develop organically between the talent - not that they ever lead anywhere apart from trading wins back and forth or building someone up to job to Cena or Brock (but that's a different issue) - but instead of having them cut promos back and forth against each other, they have Michael Cole "read us their tweets" or, essentially, tell us their story to explain their motivations as they're laid out from Steph's army of two dozen soap opera writers.

Most of the talent isn't trusted on the mic - unless they're speaking in riddles like the Wyatts or quoting nursery rhymes like Roman Reigns was earlier this year. Cole might as well be doing voiceover for a silent movie and all of the performers might as well be the Vaudevillains for as much as they get to talk and get over their characters. At least The New Day finally had some of their slack eased after about 4-5 months of them spinning their wheels listlessly, because - surprise surprise - they've gotten themselves over as a result.

And, of course, when they actually have some sort of a heated feud, they proceed to build a match full of rest holds because "that makes sense".

Vince is now a 70 year old man and I wouldn't be surprised if he's been going senile over the last decade or so.

Senile AND blind. Don't forget that he's blind. That Vince... always good for a laugh.

 

[Rockandrollclown]

The athleticism is there, its just the ring psychology is no were to be found in a 1000 mile radius.

This is it for me completely. Most of the wrestlers today are doing cooler moves than the attitude era guys, but I largely don't give a shit. WWE overthinks it I think. There's nothing wrong with just having 2 people who both want to be the best on a collision course. Or two people who just hate each other. Oh, and bring back managers. A lot of the talent now is awful on the mic, its not terribly difficult to cover that deficiency.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Are you talkin' Dean? Cuz Dean has problemos, but his elbow drop is pretty good. Much better than Punk's ever was.

I was referring to Punk. The so called 'best in the world' doing that shit was laughable. And I guarantee you it pissed Vince off too, but Punk's 'I don't give a fuck' attitude meant he did it anyway.

 

[Sephzilla]

The athleticism is there, its just the ring psychology is no were to be found in a 1000 mile radius.

Shit thats wrong with the actual in-ring product:

1. Spot-fest
2. Excessive setup of spots.
3. Finisher spam
4. Tag team matches with no actual use of Tag Team ring generalship.
5. Devaluation of moves to were they mean nothing when done.
6. No-selling moves(Frog-Splash, DDT, Superplex)
7. Overuse of novelty moves(aka Ambrose Rope thing)

You must love Dolph Ziggler then

/s

 

[DeathyBoy]

This is it for me completely. Most of the wrestlers today are doing cooler moves than the attitude era guys, but I largely don't give a shit. WWE overthinks it I think. There's nothing wrong with just having 2 people who both want to be the best on a collision course. Or two people who just hate each other. Oh, and bring back managers. A lot of the talent now is awful on the mic, its not terribly difficult to cover that deficiency.

I think people are overestimating the 'psychology' of the Attitude Era. Matches like Rock vs Taker at KOTR 99 had the wrestlers doing finishing moves within the first two minutes and then wrestling a normal match.

 

[Uno Venova]

I think people are overestimating the 'psychology' of the Attitude Era. Matches like Rock vs Taker at KOTR 99 had the wrestlers doing finishing moves within the first two minutes and then wrestling a normal match.

How many finishers did it take to get a pin in that match though, because it makes sense for a wrestler not to kick out from an early finisher, he's not tired enough.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Does the "in-ring wrestling" actually matter as much as people want to believe? That's one thing people keep bringing up but is the actual wrestling any worse now than it was in the 80s or 90s? You remember the great matches from those times but go back and watch some old PPVs and RAWs from those eras and it had as much garbage filler as we have today, if not more. I think the main problem is there is no mainstream, crossover success, which doesn't have a whole lot to do with the in-ring stuff. People ate up the WWF during the "Rock N Wrestling" era because Hulk Hogan was a larger than life personality, despite the fact that he was a horrible in ring wrestler. The Attitude Era was as much about the promos and vignettes as it was about the wrestling. The things people remember from that era were the NWO (who were like 2/3 made up of terrible wrestlers), the Rock (known for his promos) and the McMahon/Austin stuff (not like Vince was putting on 5 star matches). I don't know what the WWE needs to do to have that kind of crossover success again, or even if they can. I don't think the answer is to try and go "Attitude Era" again. What was cool to 16 year olds in 1998 is corny to 16 year olds in 2015. Having John Cena say bitch or having Paige come out in a bikini won't solve shit. Maybe they have found their lane and are just gonna stick to it.

 

[DeathyBoy]

How many finishers did it take to get a pin in that match though, because it makes sense for a wrestler not to kick out from an early finisher, he's not tired enough.

Well HHH interfered a lot and then Taker hit a Tombstone.

The psychology backfired at any rate, as the crowd was hyped for early finishers then got bored because the exciting opening couldn't be kept up and things went into 'punch and kick and counter with a punch and kick' mode. Taker really was not good in-ring for a LONG time after his feud with Michaels ended.

 

[Savitar]

These days RAW is basically done to please Vince, Triple H and Steph. Vince is no longer on camera but don't worry you still got Triple H and Steph to run people down, promote their interest and egos. Don't worry, good or bad doesn't matter to them, they can be both!

One of the things you see wrestlers talk about how wins don't matter anymore, yet as we've seen with Cena they definitely do. And not just talking merchandise sales.

 

[Paracelsus]

I was referring to Punk. The so called 'best in the world' doing that shit was laughable. And I guarantee you it pissed Vince off too, but Punk's 'I don't give a fuck' attitude meant he did it anyway.

Funny because Punk is arguably the only one whose psychology in the ring stood out to the people from the last good generation.

Does the "in-ring wrestling" actually matter as much as people want to believe? That's one thing people keep bringing up but is the actual wrestling any worse now than it was in the 80s or 90s? You remember the great matches from those times but go back and watch some old PPVs and RAWs from those eras and it had as much garbage filler as we have today, if not more. I think the main problem is there is no mainstream, crossover success, which doesn't have a whole lot to do with the in-ring stuff. People ate up the WWF during the "Rock N Wrestling" era because Hulk Hogan was a larger than life personality, despite the fact that he was a horrible in ring wrestler. The Attitude Era was as much about the promos and vignettes as it was about the wrestling. The things people remember from that era were the NWO (who were like 2/3 made up of terrible wrestlers), the Rock (known for his promos) and the McMahon/Austin stuff (not like Vince was putting on 5 star matches). I don't know what the WWE needs to do to have that kind of crossover success again, or even if they can. I don't think the answer is to try and go "Attitude Era" again. What was cool to 16 year olds in 1998 is corny to 16 year olds in 2015. Having John Cena say bitch or having Paige come out in a bikini won't solve shit. Maybe they have found their lane and are just gonna stick to it.

It doesn't, and it never did, otherwise Edge wouldn't be cherished as much as he did and Christian would have the titles Edge got, same goes for Benoit (Angle got all them titles because he was the ultimate in-ring worker, perfect as goofy talented medalist, wrestling machine, anything, he just could talk, whereas Benoit really couldn't). Take the criticism about Punk for example: Bryan is the better wrestler? Sure. Bryan was nothing on the mic, nothing, as barebones as it comes, good delivery but nothing groundbreaking. His feud leading to the world title was a good underdog story but overall quite unremarkable. Punk? He could miss a few words here and there, but the content and the delivery was just fine.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

At this point Cena has been the face of the company longer than Hogan but with ten (maybe a hundred) times the exposure and people were sick of Hogan's shtick by 1992 and hell, he was getting stale a couple years prior to that.

Does the "in-ring wrestling" actually matter as much as people want to believe? That's one thing people keep bringing up but is the actual wrestling any worse now than it was in the 80s or 90s? You remember the great matches from those times but go back and watch some old PPVs and RAWs from those eras and it had as much garbage filler as we have today, if not more. I think the main problem is there is no mainstream, crossover success, which doesn't have a whole lot to do with the in-ring stuff. People ate up the WWF during the "Rock N Wrestling" era because Hulk Hogan was a larger than life personality, despite the fact that he was a horrible in ring wrestler. The Attitude Era was as much about the promos and vignettes as it was about the wrestling. The things people remember from that era were the NWO (who were like 2/3 made up of terrible wrestlers), the Rock (known for his promos) and the McMahon/Austin stuff (not like Vince was putting on 5 star matches). I don't know what the WWE needs to do to have that kind of crossover success again, or even if they can. I don't think the answer is to try and go "Attitude Era" again. What was cool to 16 year olds in 1998 is corny to 16 year olds in 2015. Having John Cena say bitch or having Paige come out in a bikini won't solve shit. Maybe they have found their lane and are just gonna stick to it.

Hogan wrestled as needed but regardless of his talent he was still a good worker. Much of the in ring work of the Attitude era was pretty shit but it didn't matter so much because you had so much personality from the curtain jerkers to the main event just about everyone on the show felt like they mattered in some way and were given a platform to entertain. Now if you get over without the company's backing you seemingly get punished.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Does the "in-ring wrestling" actually matter as much as people want to believe? That's one thing people keep bringing up but is the actual wrestling any worse now than it was in the 80s or 90s? You remember the great matches from those times but go back and watch some old PPVs and RAWs from those eras and it had as much garbage filler as we have today, if not more. I think the main problem is there is no mainstream, crossover success, which doesn't have a whole lot to do with the in-ring stuff. People ate up the WWF during the "Rock N Wrestling" era because Hulk Hogan was a larger than life personality, despite the fact that he was a horrible in ring wrestler. The Attitude Era was as much about the promos and vignettes as it was about the wrestling. The things people remember from that era were the NWO (who were like 2/3 made up of terrible wrestlers), the Rock (known for his promos) and the McMahon/Austin stuff (not like Vince was putting on 5 star matches). I don't know what the WWE needs to do to have that kind of crossover success again, or even if they can. I don't think the answer is to try and go "Attitude Era" again. What was cool to 16 year olds in 1998 is corny to 16 year olds in 2015. Having John Cena say bitch or having Paige come out in a bikini won't solve shit. Maybe they have found their lane and are just gonna stick to it.

The Attitude Era was horrendously bad in terms of match quality. Guys like the NAO were mega over until the match started, and then fans tuned out. It wasn't until 2000 that the cards were first to last excellent. Prior to that you usually had a good main event, maybe one or two decent matches. WM X-7 was the absolute peak, a show full of excellent matches.

Nowadays you get solid cards down the line and, personally, in Rollins the most consistently good main event run in years. Yeah there's a bit too much flippy shit, but the dude is fucking balling at this wrestling lark. That cage match with Cena is the first time in ages I've genuinely gotten so into a match that I yelled 'stop him, Cena' at the TV. Rollins is such a slimy little douchebag that they're missing out on a trick if Reigns ends that title reign by beating the dogshit out of Rollins at Mania.

Whoever takes the belt from Rollins is going to get a monster pop.

 

[joeposh]

Does the "in-ring wrestling" actually matter as much as people want to believe?

Nope, the biggest stars in the industry, Hogan and The Rock, have some of the most limited and predictable move sets. SCSA became a star around the time his in-ring work was dramatically limited by injury.

I love a well put together match, but modern wrestling has always been about the pomp and circumstance -- the spectacle and unexpected. From Hogan picking up Andre, to the Outsiders invading WCW, to the rise of hardcore and the high flying spots, people always are looking for something to make them suspend disbelief for a moment.

Purists will always obsess on the in-ring product, the same way that any sports fan will dissect the playbook and execution of their team -- but at the end of the day, what matters is how it feels. Brock Lesnar fights are electric because it FEELS like a big deal. You know many of the spots you're likely to see, but there's this overarching sense of intensity and spectacle that sets it apart from other matches on the card.

That's what the casual viewers care about, and that's largely who has left wrestling behind. The rest of us are still here, even if we're not exactly eager to admit it.

 

[Toki767]

At the end of the day, it's all Vince McMahon's fault.

All the writers just cater to him. He's the one who decides who gets to be in what storyline and everything.

He's just completely out of touch with the audience.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Funny because Punk is arguably the only one whose psychology in the ring stood out to the people from the last good generation.

Punk was always a better storyteller than flat out wrestler. His matches with Cena are sloppy as fuck at points, but it doesn't matter because the two of them had a natural chemistry and knew when to kick it up a notch.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Then with the women, NXT is doing what NXT does and put together a good video for the Bayley/Sasha ironman match but still it's kind of the same'ol way they've hyped these kinds of matches before, while on Twitter they're sharing things such as essays they wrote when they were 10,11,12 whatever and Sasha does pod casts talking about how people laughed at the idea of her being a wrestler. That should be a part of the hype but it's still light years beyond what's being done with women on the main roster or hell at this point the men too.

And then there's this hype video for Rousey/Holm which yeah we know how it'll probably end but this is a fantastic video selling their fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jSKMoXTvaQ


EDIT: In terms of athletic ability vs charisma/story telling ability I'd put Punk more in the Jake Roberts column even though Punk can't touch him there from a psychology standpoint. Jake's athletic ability was mostly shit but he made up for it.


The thing is WWE just seems to suck at getting things over without killing it by either over exposure or pushing it too fucking hard to where they're trying to ram it down the audience's throat while the announces lead along. Look at what they did with the while Fandango thing after he or at least his music got over after WrestleMania and how they handled that. The company has a ton of issues and really I don't know if putting Triple H and Stephanie in charge will fix it because there's a big sense of pettiness that comes not just from Vince but those two as well and injecting themselves into shit they don't belong in.

 

[Host Samurai]

The athleticism is there, its just the ring psychology is no were to be found in a 1000 mile radius.

Shit thats wrong with the actual in-ring product:

1. Spot-fest
2. Excessive setup of spots.
3. Finisher spam
4. Tag team matches with no actual use of Tag Team ring generalship.
5. Devaluation of moves to were they mean nothing when done.
6. No-selling moves(Frog-Splash, DDT, Superplex)
7. Overuse of novelty moves(aka Ambrose Rope thing)

These are my main issues with the in ring product.

Watch a random early 90's RAW and watch how much better the matches tell a story. Hell Doink and Mr Perfect for example was an amazing match.

 

[jmdajr]

I really hope this isn't because of his brother's inoperable brain cancer.

I'd rather it be because of Nikki and Dolph, haha.

That's not good man. Fuck cancer.

 

[Couleurs]

At the end of the day, it's all Vince McMahon's fault.

All the writers just cater to him. He's the one who decides who gets to be in what storyline and everything.

He's just completely out of touch with the audience.

I love how Vince always talks about wrestlers needing to "grab the brass ring" then when a guy does that and manages to get extremely popular on his own (Zack Ryder, Daniel Bryan), they get buried for not being the guy the WWE wants to push (since they are only capable of having one popular guy at a time)

 

[Magical Sound Shower]

Is it me or the matches are going on for way too long? The guys are full of energy for about 2 minutes and then its 20 minutes of them looking at the ceiling,, suddenly recovering, pulling a crazy move, being countered, and both dudes are back on the floor for more fake agony. It never ends and it's not epic at all when it happens 5 matches in a row.