UberTag
Member
I'm over 30 and I'm not sure I give much of a shit about those guys any more.
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WWE Raw drops to lowest TV rating in 18 years
- Thread starter RBH
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Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Yep. I feel like this has been said by pretty much every fan for a decade now, but nothing's happening. It really is the exact same show in format and pacing as 15 years ago, but now featuring no edginess, momentum, or stakes. It's a dull variety show right now.
The Silver
Member
That's one of the big problems with WWE, they feel like they have to have a segment to cater to everyone from toddlers to grandmas.
They hide it under the world "family" but really they have no true clear target demographic, they try to appeal to everyone and end up appealing to no one.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Ric Flair is the greatest of all time. Show the man some respect.
By the way if NXT was on in its place, I bet you the ratings would be higher.
The problem is over the last decade they have let the product bleed out slowly. It all started with the horrific reign of John Cena.
UberTag
Member
Hey, Flair is the man. Nobody can take that away from him.
I just don't need to see his broken down 66-year-old carcass on Monday nights to regurgitate catchphrases and make Roman look strong.
At least variety shows have variety. RAW doesn't even offer that.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I absolutely believe the two main guys that the show is built around should take some blame. I do agree with your post otherwise, though.
Ninja Scooter
Member
No they wouldn't. NXT is niche as fuck. Non-wrestling fans aren't tuning into NXT. WWE needs to appeal to non-traditional wrestling fans to get back to anything resembling the ratings they had at their heights.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Like why would any person care about this MexAmerica storyline? It's not a real place. There's no indication it will ever be a real place. What is this? How do I get invested? Corny as fuck TV. It's nothing like the legit Canada vs US feud they accidentally stumbled on 20 years ago.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Fair enough. *crawls back in hole*
UberTag
Member
Non-traditional wrestling fans, eh? I know what will bring them in...
Nothing bigger than zombies right now.
It's Reyn Time!
Member
By this point I'm certain that Ric Flair convinced somebody that he was a wrestling legend some 45 years ago and nobody's been polite enough to tell him he's awful and just kinda gone with it. Back when I was first into wrestling, like 20-25 years ago, he was this forcedly excited but boring, frail guy who other wrestlers had to visibly be extra careful with, but when I'd say he was shit to watch someone older than me would pipe in with 'maybe, but he's a legend, show some respect'.
And now it's 2015 and it's really out of hand.
And now it's 2015 and it's really out of hand.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
He's the only 2x Hall of Famer in WWE. He's legit. Probably the best overall package of charisma and talent if you had to pick the best heel ever.
The Silver
Member
Can we really blame Rollins for how he's booked? Can we blame Reigns for how they sabotaged him leading up to and during the Rumble?
Yeah we can blame Roman for his mic skills, but then, a good company, a good booker would know how to hide that and highlight his strengths. They're so stubborn on forcing Reigns into a Cena mold that he damn near suffocates in it.(and he's still managing to build himself back up)
Stone Cold even talks about how bad he feels for the current guys because of how stifled creatively they are.
http://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/steve-austin-wwe-wrestlemania-brock-lesnar-interview-110215
"I was just at the pay-per-view Hell in a Cell and prior to that I was in Dallas at a Monday Night Raw and, man, the system is very constricted right now," explained Austin. "I feel for the guys in the system. I had a lot more creative freedom back in the day. These days, it's a very rigid system and it's very political. Because of the system that I was in, I could never comply to the current system. I ain't knocking it. I'm just saying I couldn't fly in that system with so many restrictions on me."
Liquidsnake
Banned
Dude what are you talking about?
The guy had the best decade run in the history of the business.
The dude carried territories on his back, promoters depended on him for their lives.
The guy held the world title 16 times during the most storied and important time in the history of the business.
Best promo key work PROMO man in the history of wrestling.
the guy had more 5 star matches than anyone in history. He wrestled 365 times a year.
Was durable, dependable, bankable. What are you talking about?
I don't think so. It's all on creative really.
As good as the show was, they're still suffering from the shitty booking decisions made in the past. If you've been watching RAW for the past few months, why give a shit about the main event when you know Reigns will be declared the winner and stand tall? Why else would you have reason to believe Rollins will win anything on RAW when his record is like 2-18? It's going to take more consecutive good booking before they actually undo the damage.
It's Reyn Time!
Member
And all of these accomplishments are utterly baffling to me. He has the ring presence and technical ability of a wet turnip while being as physically intimidating as your average doily.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
To be fair, I feel like if you started seeing Flair from WCW's prime and on, he's always just been a weird old man.
strikeselect
You like me, you really really like me!
I'm still amazed how they fucked up Sting's WWE run. What in the fucking fuck.
This company deserves to go to the graveyard.
This company deserves to go to the graveyard.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Im sorry, I get it. now.
I thought you were being serious.
On the Sing note, his run has been the biggest slap in the face I have ever seen. Brought him in to bury him, and make him look like a fool. Awesome job Vince. Way to destroy a man who buit a rep for thirty years, and Vince killed it in a matter of weeks. Now I understand why comanies f up things like WCW getting Brett, they had no idea what to do with him.
WWE had no idea what to do with Sting, except job him out to everyone.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Bringing in Sting is part of the problem in the first place.
Yeah, during WCW's prime he was disgusted with the company and doing the bare minimum in a lot of cases. Of course he could half-ass it and still do a better job than most people who were at the top of the WCW card at the time.
...And was still one of the hottest acts in WCW.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Yes!
WWE right now is where TNA's always been, and why TNA sucks: lots of old dudes in the main event scene, literally no momentum for anyone on the show who aren't those old top guys.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
you must have never watched a soap opera
What? Ric Flair bumped like a fucking boss. He was taking massive bumps off the tops of ladders well into his 50s!
UberTag
Member
Two matches. Two defeats. One career-ending injury.
WCW got more out of Bret Hart before they wrecked him and they did an atrocious job with Bret Hart.
Your first mistake was having any expectations to begin with.
Corpsepyre
Banned
Not the least bit surprised. Couldn't watch even 10 mins of the new product, and I followed every single event till 2007. Fuck new WWE.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Sting's heyday was 25 years ago. Just imagine if, during the height of the attitude era in the late 90s, the WWE brought back Harley Race or Dusty Rhodes to co-main event PPVs or challenge for the title, would any of you given a shit? Because that's what Sting is today.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Creative is the main reason, yes, but let's not pretend that guys haven't overcome terrible booking in the past to draw fans.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
You're forgetting he won in a random meaningless 6-man tag
This is what happens when you go through the motions for almost every Monday for the past 2 years. Why should anyone want to tune into RAW? Wrestling as a whole isn't all that big today, so you only compound the existing downward trend with your subbornly lackluster programming that never changes.
Past two weeks have been better, for sure. There are actual storylines and progression. But there's definitely been no significant change to the overall way WWE presents RAW to help turn the tides. That's still the same. They are just now putting at least a bit of effort into their 3 hour weekly show, as opposed to half hazardedly throwing meaningless shit at the wall, and counting on the fans finding something good under the steaming pile.
The bright side is that WWE is finally accepting the fact they need to treat some of their new current roster like actual stars, instead of everyone just being in one big mid-card where no one ever gets over unless by some freak accident.
Past two weeks have been better, for sure. There are actual storylines and progression. But there's definitely been no significant change to the overall way WWE presents RAW to help turn the tides. That's still the same. They are just now putting at least a bit of effort into their 3 hour weekly show, as opposed to half hazardedly throwing meaningless shit at the wall, and counting on the fans finding something good under the steaming pile.
The bright side is that WWE is finally accepting the fact they need to treat some of their new current roster like actual stars, instead of everyone just being in one big mid-card where no one ever gets over unless by some freak accident.
I've watched more than enough soap operas. Even the worst one had more compelling storylines than anything I've seen on WWE whenever I tuned in during the past few years. They're cheesy, they're over-the-top, the acting and dialogue sucks, but it works. I'm dead serious. WWE wishes it was as good as your standard soap opera.
Christopher
Member
Disagreed
Sting was HUGE in the 90s and him gracing a WWE ring was big news the sting taker match and build up with their gimmicks woulda been huge
Paracelsus
Member
Bringing BIG NAME in the smark era is backfire fodder.
BIG NAME is back? Guess he is to put BOOED OUT THE BUILDING over
Oh, speaking of issues, since we're talking ratings:
The last time a heel kept the belt for so long was JBL in 2004, a kind of a sabbatical low-ppv buyrates year for Smackdown. You could argue Punk did keep it for 7 months after the heel turn, but he was the face given how crappy the faces were.
JBL also was built this way
Let's throw a bunch of big names at him, even all of them together, so he can beat them all by cheating or luck, go over and get heat, so that the next big thing pins him and people will end up loving him
Basically what they expect from Reigns. Problem is, Rollins can barely talk, Reigns probably couldn't talk even if he turned heel. People need a relatable face and a relatable heel, we have neither fighting for the world title. Edge vs Cena? Kids and adults were in for a treat, right now we're all in for a big pile of *cue cena pointing the mic at the crowd*
BIG NAME is back? Guess he is to put BOOED OUT THE BUILDING over
Oh, speaking of issues, since we're talking ratings:
The last time a heel kept the belt for so long was JBL in 2004, a kind of a sabbatical low-ppv buyrates year for Smackdown. You could argue Punk did keep it for 7 months after the heel turn, but he was the face given how crappy the faces were.
JBL also was built this way
Let's throw a bunch of big names at him, even all of them together, so he can beat them all by cheating or luck, go over and get heat, so that the next big thing pins him and people will end up loving him
Basically what they expect from Reigns. Problem is, Rollins can barely talk, Reigns probably couldn't talk even if he turned heel. People need a relatable face and a relatable heel, we have neither fighting for the world title. Edge vs Cena? Kids and adults were in for a treat, right now we're all in for a big pile of *cue cena pointing the mic at the crowd*
The Silver
Member
In the modern era? Who? There hasn't been a mega star since Cena.
They managed to ruin CM Punk and he had all the stars aligned for him. Bryan had one of biggest fan revolts ever seen and even then he was never ever actually going to have the company behind him. This company is its own worst enemy.
UberTag
Member
For some added perspective, we thought Bob Backlund was old and out of touch when he feuded with Bret Hart for the title back in 1994. He was 45.
Sting is 11 years older than that.
This seems to be something they're doing begrudgingly that they don't actually WANT to do but feel obligated to do because Cena decided to go on vacation. I maintain no delusions that they'll actually stick to this mindset once Cena returns and "part-timers get all of the Mania main events" season kicks off in January.
Jerm411
Member
With rating in the gutter, they should just really go all in and move up NXTers that are ready, phase out the status quo, and push the young talent to the moon...
Would it work? Probably not. But there is an off chance something sparks ala Rock/Austin.
You'll never know if you don't try....and that's exactly Vince's problem. He's too comfortable and surrounded by yes men.
The company in every fashion needs turned over and a radical facelift.
Would it work? Probably not. But there is an off chance something sparks ala Rock/Austin.
You'll never know if you don't try....and that's exactly Vince's problem. He's too comfortable and surrounded by yes men.
The company in every fashion needs turned over and a radical facelift.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Yeah that's a good comparison as I remember Bob Backlund seeming old as shit when WWE brought him back and he jobbed to Nash.
UberTag
Member
Melrose Place in its prime kicks current WWE's ass.
Then again, we shouldn't be surprised. Their creative team is staffed by people who couldn't hack it as soap opera writers.
That's right. Soap operas didn't want them because they sucked.
So they took the thankless WWE minion job as a fallback option.
They are already pushing the new guys. Roman, Rollins, Bray, Wyatt, Charlotte etc. are part of that group.
Moving up all of NXT would basically do nothing to RAW ratings.
New talent is in place now, but the product is going through some serious growing pains, during a time where people who still have cable subscriptions just aren't that into pro wrestling anymore. There's no magic cure for what's going on right now.
Cena overall this year has been far more positive for the company than the negative. Yes, the way he was booked for a decade was a prime example of the kind of things that caused WWE to turn really stale. But current Cena is pretty great overall IMO. Not too worried about him coming back.
WWE seems to actually want to get behind the new talent now which is a new development.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Wanting to and knowing how to are two different things
Jerm411
Member
I see what you're saying but Rollins is the worst booked champ in God knows how long...Bray Wyatt can't win a big match in any big program he's in and the one time he did it was because a child sang to John Cena. Charlotte is fine but her getting the big push over Sasha Banks is just them being tone deaf and going with a name.
The fact that the Undertaker and Kane are in the biggest matches in 2 consecutive PPVs in 2015 is astoningshly sad...and speaks volumes about the state the company is in.
The difference these last two weeks is that the action has been compelling.
I know the Reigns victories were pretty cynical and easy to predict, but the matches were good. Generally everything has seemed important, and the in-ring action has been high quality, with proper results and matches that go longer than a minute and a half.
To be honest, this less predictable approach, with a bit of faith in the talent and storyline's that are actually interesting, is enough to keep me enthusiastic about the product. If they keep it up, there's no reason the ratings won't uptick.
The talent is there. And they've shown sporadically that they know how to capitalise on it. It's just about keeping that momentum without nonsense politics and Vince getting in the fucking way.
If Survivor Series wasn't just two weeks away, I'd say that the build was good, and I'm looking forward to it. The two announced title matches will be borderline exciting!
I know the Reigns victories were pretty cynical and easy to predict, but the matches were good. Generally everything has seemed important, and the in-ring action has been high quality, with proper results and matches that go longer than a minute and a half.
To be honest, this less predictable approach, with a bit of faith in the talent and storyline's that are actually interesting, is enough to keep me enthusiastic about the product. If they keep it up, there's no reason the ratings won't uptick.
The talent is there. And they've shown sporadically that they know how to capitalise on it. It's just about keeping that momentum without nonsense politics and Vince getting in the fucking way.
If Survivor Series wasn't just two weeks away, I'd say that the build was good, and I'm looking forward to it. The two announced title matches will be borderline exciting!
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
Punk and Bryan absolutely are two that overcame bad booking to become hugely popular--even then in the midst of said bad booking that propelled them to the forefront of the company.
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