Well, let's see how everything will be next week if there is any truth to the directorship timings. At least the main event was awesome.
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WWE Raw drops to lowest TV rating in 18 years
- Thread starter RBH
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scorcher59
Member
Izzat true that vince changes shit on the fly hours before going live? If so... GAT DAMN!
The Faceless Master
Member
heard he changes stuff on the fly once the show has already started. like calling new finishes to a match to the ref during the match.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
WCW used to not even have the show planned as the fireworks were going off.
He was changing match finishes for WrestleMania this year 2 hours before the show started.
scorcher59
Member
Wow, that's fucked up! Id guess one of those would be the AJ v Jericho match...
that said... bookies knew every outcome for wm32 over a week in advance and nothing changed.
which is... mind boggling. zack ryder wasnt even in the IC event until 2 weeks ago when he replaced an injured neville. so thats months of "build up" for the IC belt, that is scrapped at the last minute and given to someone who isnt even wrestling on the main roster and who wasnt even in the build up. WHO THEN LOST THE BELT THE NEXT NIGHT.
or the shane vs taker match. weeks of build up. will shane get control? will taker retire? will vince disown him? somehow shane lost BUT STILL GAINED CONTROL THE NEXT NIGHT. thats the stupidest shit of all time. whats the fucking point?? thats the best storyline you can come up with?
which is... mind boggling. zack ryder wasnt even in the IC event until 2 weeks ago when he replaced an injured neville. so thats months of "build up" for the IC belt, that is scrapped at the last minute and given to someone who isnt even wrestling on the main roster and who wasnt even in the build up. WHO THEN LOST THE BELT THE NEXT NIGHT.
or the shane vs taker match. weeks of build up. will shane get control? will taker retire? will vince disown him? somehow shane lost BUT STILL GAINED CONTROL THE NEXT NIGHT. thats the stupidest shit of all time. whats the fucking point?? thats the best storyline you can come up with?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
WWE will always be WWE.
This isn't like you're on season 3 of a show, and you're starting to see bad habits develop. We've known WWE to do things like this for at least TWENTY YEARS.
Everyone: Just stop watching.
Discotheque
Banned
He gained control for only one night
I think they should continue the storyline tho
I think they should continue the storyline tho
This is bullshit. Hyperbole of the highest order.
Fans have been complaining for months that the product is stale and predictable. Zack Ryder goes ahead and wins the IC ladder match in a shock result, and the next night on Raw a fresh storyline revolving around the belt is born. Yes, he lost. But that's fine. He got his Wrestlemania moment, which is amazing. But now he's on the main roster, involved in a meaningful feud that has the fans' attention. He's an actor that's just been bumped into relevancy. He's also banging Emma. The dude wins. Just enjoy the ride.
And regarding Shane, it was blatantly obvious that him "running Raw" is a short-term deal. Probably a one-night thing based on the atmosphere created by the post-mania Raw crowd. Vince sold it perfectly, the crowd ate it up, and we got a sweet main event out of it. Don't worry. Steph will be back squawking at you for 20 minutes next week.
I believe I heard Dave Meltzer say that on The LAW after Mania.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Vince made the decision to end the Undertaker's streak a few hours before WM 30 started. It's not like he hasnt made some major on the fly decisions.
Last year the decision to have Rollins cash in during Reigns/Lesnar was decided not long before Mania started.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Vince is just going with his gut. The same gut that built this business and gave you all your wrasslin memories you ungrateful fucks.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I didn't.
j'accuse!
its not the results i'm complaining about. its the way its told. they've had months to tell this story. but in the space of a fortnight theyve called up a mid-card nxt tag team hype bro as an injury replacement, given him the belt, and then made him lose it the next night to someone who he hasnt even been feuding with.
theres just a million ways to tell that result better. same with the hiac match. surely having shane win. taker 'retire'. and vince/steph fuming. is more compelling than... "alright shane-o. disregard every horrible thing ive said the past month or so. every stipulation. every outcome. every thing i said about you, your mother, and the crowd. you want raw? here it is!"
Liquidsnake
Banned
I am sure AJ styles getting jobbed out was one fo them, and it makes sense now, they gave him a world title shot the next night.
Awesome booking.
It's the Al Davis Syndrome. You take a guy that has succeeded doing things his way for so long they don't know how to take outside input well. So when it starts going bad they just double down on what they know.
The problem is the last time Vince/WWE was in a rough spot, the monday night wars, there was credible competition and it forced Vince's hand to do things differently. Now we don't have that so he will double down on what he's always done force feeding us a babyface to the THE GUY at the expense of everything else.
The Shane stuff is a one-night only thing. A final farewell celebration of Shane and his awesomeness. Let it go. It was a bit of fun. The whole angle was just a last-minute reserve for an injured Cena anyway. It's a shame about the result, but it is what it is. It was never gonna go in the direction we wanted.
I appreciate what you're saying about Zack, but it's just a storyline. They haven't had months, cos up until mania, KO was IC champ. They didn't just reward Ryder with the belt at Mania, they rewarded him with a meaningful storyline. KO is gonna go feud with Zayn (which doesn't require the belt for heat), meanwhile the Miz and Ryder get to feud over the belt. It's new, it's meaningful and it's interesting. No-one's been screwed. It's progress.
Then I don't know where the fuck. Maybe I misheard.
dude. they made new day job to league of nations ONLY so they could be 'rescued' by stone cold. who ended up turning on them anyways. and then they gave the belt back the next night.
"how can we make our extremely popular tag team champs look strong?"
"what if we make them lose."
"i love it already. go on..."
"then we have stone cold save them."
"yes! people love stone cold..."
"then we have stone cold beat them up."
"perfect! nothing says strong and popular like getting beaten, saved, and then beaten again."
The match at Mania wasn't for the belts and wasn't clean and they got their win back the next night. It served its purpose for the legends spot.
Now that the LoN is down a Barrett they can restart the feud.
As people have said there were a millions ways to do that and make everyone look good. Also New day shouldn't have lost to the league of jobbers.
Take a moment to think about this. Sit back, and think of the workers today that were around 15-20 years ago. HHH, Kane, Big Show, Jericho, Undertaker, and I'm sure more I'm not thinking of. These aren't exactly bit players either, many were in the most high profile matches on the biggest show of the year.
No think back to when you first became a fan. Although I've watched it all my life, I became a hardcore fan in 1993, so I'll use that year for this line of thinking in my example. How many people were working near the top of the card in 1993 that were on the top in, say, 1973 or 1978. Not that hell of a lot to be honest. Sure there were a few, but not too many and certainly not many main eventing the biggest shows of the year.
Do this with just 10 years back - say now to 2006 and compare that with your personal example (again, mine is 1993 back to 1983. You see how much the roster changed between the 80s to the 90s? That's part of the problem. Nothing hardly has changed in the last decade, and it's pretty gross when you think about it.
I just don't get why they are having such a problem moving forward and creating true new stars. There have been very, very few true top guys created in the last decade or so. I'm talking actual long term names, that they treat like top stars consistently. It just almost never happens anymore.
No think back to when you first became a fan. Although I've watched it all my life, I became a hardcore fan in 1993, so I'll use that year for this line of thinking in my example. How many people were working near the top of the card in 1993 that were on the top in, say, 1973 or 1978. Not that hell of a lot to be honest. Sure there were a few, but not too many and certainly not many main eventing the biggest shows of the year.
Do this with just 10 years back - say now to 2006 and compare that with your personal example (again, mine is 1993 back to 1983. You see how much the roster changed between the 80s to the 90s? That's part of the problem. Nothing hardly has changed in the last decade, and it's pretty gross when you think about it.
I just don't get why they are having such a problem moving forward and creating true new stars. There have been very, very few true top guys created in the last decade or so. I'm talking actual long term names, that they treat like top stars consistently. It just almost never happens anymore.
They didn't lose clean, the team consists of multiple former champions, and New Day is over enough that it doesn't matter, and the belts weren't on the line.
New Day/LoN was the perfect match to put the Legends spot with.
I think part of the reason is they used to have to. Guys left. Part of the reason WWF at the time had to create new stars is because all their main ones left. Thats not happening anymore because they have no where else to go.
To uses Vince's own terms there is no brass ring for new guys to reach for, because all the rings are firmly on the hands of established guys they refuse to use to put over new talent.
With hindsight, I can now agree. Seeing as the plan was to write out Barrett, it makes sense. It's a shame New Day lost, but it really doesn't matter.
The Legends stuff was fine.
This is also true.
"hey... remember how good wrestling used to be? well.. here. they. come!"
legends should be used to put over talent. not come out and stunner BOTH sides. or do a 25 minute promo with flamethrowers and cheerleaders, rock bottom someone in 6 seconds, then disappear for a year.
just my opinions of course.
legends should be used to put over talent. not come out and stunner BOTH sides. or do a 25 minute promo with flamethrowers and cheerleaders, rock bottom someone in 6 seconds, then disappear for a year.
just my opinions of course.
It's Wrestlemania. That's exactly what they should be doing.
I don't know if you've been paying attention, but that's what Stone Cold does. He doesn't have an allegiance. He just stunners people.
New Day weren't harmed in any way by that segment. In fact, Woods's reaction on Raw was absolutely perfect.
explain having the wyatts job to the rock then?
a few weeks ago they were teasing a feud with brock. a few months ago they were kidnapping motherfuckers left and right. a few years ago they were going toe to toe with cena. now theyre losing the rock in 6 seconds.
mate, youre doing mental moonsaults to explain all this shit. its terrible. and the ratings show it.
a few weeks ago they were teasing a feud with brock. a few months ago they were kidnapping motherfuckers left and right. a few years ago they were going toe to toe with cena. now theyre losing the rock in 6 seconds.
mate, youre doing mental moonsaults to explain all this shit. its terrible. and the ratings show it.
This I agree with. I love The Rock but I'm tired of his spots. Have him return to get beat down to build heat on someone, instead of having him come back to embarrass current superstars. The Michaels/Foley/Austin spot... its Mania, they are always going to do this kind of spot, I've just gotten used to it.
Meh. The Wyatts are in a rut. They weren't even booked to appear at Mania, and The Rock personally requested that he worked with them. It's a shame Rowan suffered the 6-second pin, but Rocky actually spent more time putting them over than he did fighting them.
If you look at Mania as a full-stop, and the Raw-after-mania as a new start, you can put a line under jobber-sucky Wyatts who achieved nothing, and just look forward to an apparent face run, where they can actually win some feuds.
Of course, come back to me in a few months when it all goes tits up, but it's looking good from where I'm sitting.
I'm not doing any moonsaults. I'm just easier to please than those who are determined to tear the product apart for whatever reason. Mania was far from perfect, but it was fun. And Raw-after-mania indicated some decent steps in the right direction for pretty much everyone.
Bray's hurt, Harper is hurt, Rowan is meh and Strowman is so green he pisses grass.
I think it probably came down to "we need someone for the Rock to beat up, what heels do we have?" "The Wyatts aren't schedule for anything" "BOOK IT DAMMIT!"
According to Meltzer, it was The Rock's idea.
I totally buy that, I think it was the same deal when he came back and did a segment with Rusev.
I really feel like if Rock could get time away from Hollywood and come back for a feud with Bray Wyatt and put him over, it wouldn't matter that Bray has been jobber to the stars for the past 2 years.
I agree. And I don't think it's ever his intention to bury any young talent. On the contrary, hanging with the Rock is a serious career move.
If you're in a match with The Rock at Wrestlemania, you're winning at life.
Does anyone seriously think when that idea was put to Rowan backstage he thought "No way man. I'd rather not be on the show". Insanity.
Not to mention, the segment was great. That entrance, with the flamethrower and the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders, was Wrestlemania gold.
If you're in a match with The Rock at Wrestlemania, you're winning at life.
Does anyone seriously think when that idea was put to Rowan backstage he thought "No way man. I'd rather not be on the show". Insanity.
Not to mention, the segment was great. That entrance, with the flamethrower and the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders, was Wrestlemania gold.
Me too man. But it might well be.
honestly, if you check my post history, i feel like i'm definitely rooting for WWE. i love wrestling. i love WWE. i got a fucking sami zayn nickname/avatar ffs. but i'm going to call it how it is. if its good. like wm30, 31. i will say so. if its shit. i will say so. if its good (like the IC ladder match) i will say so. check my post history. honestly. i went from hypest dude of all time to, well, how you currently see me. there were a few decent matches. but nearly all of them had shit finishes and storytelling. and imo theres no denying the road to wrestlemania was fucking SHIT. but i kept thinking theyd turn it around for the main event. they had to. i had hope. but nope. they didnt. and people are tuning the fuck out.
thats the entire point of this thread right?
TarpitCarnivore
Member
Reigns getting the belt back makes sense. It's going to allow a lot more groundwork to be laid with current stars and returning (like Rollins) than HHH keeping it.
Just because AJ lost doesn't mean he "jobbed" (and same for others). He'll get plenty of other moments and I feel confident they have stuff planned given all the other signings.
Every guy that is loved by fans can't be steam rolling to a championship. Based on "smarks" Ambrose, Styles, Owens, New Day, Rollins, Cesaro, etc should all be champions at the same time.
Just because AJ lost doesn't mean he "jobbed" (and same for others). He'll get plenty of other moments and I feel confident they have stuff planned given all the other signings.
Every guy that is loved by fans can't be steam rolling to a championship. Based on "smarks" Ambrose, Styles, Owens, New Day, Rollins, Cesaro, etc should all be champions at the same time.
FeenixRising
Banned
New Day needs all the titles. Even the Women's Championship for Francesca II
Dudes got charisma out the ass. He's a born promoter. On J.R's podcast J.R and Cornette (i know but he spoke sense for once) said the wwe should move to make the promotion a face or atleast neutral.
Shane was the perfect guy to do it.
Oh, for sure. And I'll agree with you. The road to mania was tragic.
I'm the most hopelessly optimistic guy in the world. I was convinced Bryan was gonna be a surprise entrant in this year's Rumble. I mean, there was no way they were gonna let Roman vs HHH be the main event at Mania, right?
But for every odd result at mania, there was justification on Raw. I understand why Shane had to lose, I understand why LoN won. I even get why Jericho won. My only hangup about Mania is Flair's interference in the triple threat and the lack of time given to Ambrose/Lesnar.
I'm not just gonna be one of those angry fans for the sake of it. Everything considered, this was a great weekend for WWE fans, and wresting in general. A good time was had, and as far as I can see, no-one's career has suffered in the process.
Raw has had a hard time in the ratings lately, and Wrestlemania weekend wasn't gonna solve that in one fell swoop. What's important is the future and the show's potential, and as far as I can tell, with AJ Styles as No. 1 contender, a stacked tag division, a meaningful IC feud, a boatload of talent in the mid card, the Women's division etc. there's plenty to look forward to.
The Authority still being in charge is the big question mark over that fact, but I'll wait until we see them again before commenting on that.
I could get behind this.
I absolutely agree. The man is a hero.
But I'm pretty sure he has other commitments, and he was only brought in temporarily in order to cover for Cena. If I'm wrong, that's awesome. But I think the result would have been different on Sunday if that were the case. I think his goodbye at the start of Raw this week was genuine. And it was perfect.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I wonder if Austin, The Rock, Foley, HBK, HHH etc. would've gotten over as big as they did in the 90s if they got "the rub" from legends every year the way we do these days.
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