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[Barrage]

it makes me happy because they'll die eventually and aj and bryan could go to japan to work strong style

When you say "die" here, are you referring to Bryan?

 

[Uno Venova]

SD actually went up in viewers lol

SD being good would make me happier if they actually cared about the show like Raw, meaning, actually putting new exciting wrestlers on the show instead of dumping everyone on Raw.

 

[hamchan]

Pretty embarrassing 2 weeks before Wrestlemania.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I was watching SD last night and wondering why the fuck they are pairing up Cena/Miz in another WM again? It irks me too much that AJ is just going to roll out and beat up Shane instead of putting him in a meaningful feud leading up to WM. Orton vs Styles would've been a hell of a main event.

Almost none of the WM matchups make any fucking sense.

What are the matchups?

 

[Paracelsus]

Punk: Yeah, well. So he goes 'you vs. Brock, SummerSlam.' And I went 'great, who's going over?' And he goes 'well, Brock.' And I went 'great! Who's going to be at work on Monday?' And there's just silence on the end of the phone and he goes 'well, I mean, you.' And I went 'why?' I said 'do I get my rematch at the next PPV?' He goes 'uh, no.' I said 'when is Brock coming back?' He said 'Probably the Royal Rumble.' And I went 'fucking hell.' So I've gotta put over The Rock and he goes away, I've gotta put over 'Taker and he goes away, and now I'm putting over Brock and he goes away. My stock is dropping rapidly in the eyes of the casual viewer, who is who they care about. So if I'm to maintain my main event status, I'm not going to be able to do it by producing excellent matches on house shows and TV all the time. I've... I now know that the business model has changed and me barking about that it's changed isn't going to do anything about it. I now go 'well, fuck it, I want to be that guy.'

Punk: So Hunter goes 'you know, Punk, you were in the best match at WrestleMania last year and that was the main event.' And I was like 'I'm not fucking stupid. The main event is the last match. You can push it to people who buy the PPV there's four main events; there's one main event. There's always been one main event, and I deserved it. I still deserve it. And now Daniel Bryan deserves it. And you think you're just going to give it to Batista and Randy?' And I made this argument, I was like 'when you look at the roster, how many active members of the roster have been in a WrestleMania main event? How do you expect anybody to get fucking better? AHL hockey players have to play with NHL hockey players in order to get better. I needed the experience of a main event at WrestleMania with somebody who is equal or better than me so I could learn so I could further become an asset to the fucking product. So I could draw more instead of always being told 'well, you're not a draw.' 'How do you know? Why don't you give me a fucking shot?' And anytime they did give me a fucking shot, I knocked it out of the fucking park, ran, caught the ball myself and then shoved it down their fucking throats to remind them, yes, I am all that, and then some, and more. And you fuckers... what it boiled down to was that it was just an old, out-of-touch man's decision. 'No, this is going to be the greatest main event of all time.' And then they wound up changing it. And I'm so fucking stoked that Daniel Bryan got his main event. Now they can never take that away from him, ever. Whether they want to make fun of him or what not. But Hunter told me I was in the main event because I wrestled the Undertaker and I said 'tell me that I got paid the same amount of money as you, Brock, Cena, Rock, or whoever. ' And, once again, he had nothing to say. He didn't say anything. And I was just like 'right on, all right. I'm fucking out of here.' And Vince, with tears in his eyes, fucking stood up and I stuck my hand out and he went in for a fucking hug. And it was a reluctant, you know, like I just kind of patted him on the back a little bit. And I looked at Hunter and he stuck his hand out and I shook his hand, and I said 'good bye.' And I walked out.

Scary how it gets more relevant by the year. They either book long-term plans for the wrong guy (Roman) or they bury their weekly world champions just so that the casual audience can pop a "has been" boner during Wrestlemania. They don't realize that once you have done that (strip the weekly champion off the belt before WM) once, you basically destroyed them because you told people they are not the draws they have to care for.

The only good thing in terms of booking they did/are going to do is give the belt to Wyatt (after two years packed full of burials, but nonetheless) and turn Roman heel after he kills Taker.

 

[Anth0ny]

What are the matchups?

WWE Universal Title Match:
-Brock Lesnar vs. Bill Goldberg (c)

WWE Title Match:
-Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyatt (c)

Fatal 4 Way for the Raw Women’s Title:
-Nia Jax vs. Sasha Banks vs. Charlotte Flair vs. Bayley (c)

WWE United States Title Match:
-Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jericho (c)

WWE Intercontinental Title Match:
-Baron Corbin vs. Dean Ambrose (c)

Triple Threat for the Raw Tag Team Titles:
-Enzo Amore & Big Cass vs. Sheamus & Cesaro vs. Luke Gallows & Karl Anderson (c’s)

Smackdown Women’s Title Match:
-Mickie James vs. Carmella vs. Natalya vs. Becky Lynch vs. Alexa Bliss (c) vs TBA

WWE Cruiserweight Title Match:
-Austin Aries vs. Neville (c)

Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal:
-Mojo Rawley, Apollo Crews, Big Show, Curt Hawkins and others TBA

-Roman Reigns vs. The Undertaker

-John Cena and Nikki Bella vs. The Miz and Maryse

-Shane McMahon vs. AJ Styles

-Triple H vs Seth Rollins

The event will be hosted by Kofi Kingston, Xavier Woods and Big E – The New Day.

 

[Tom Nook]

WWE Universal Title Match:
-Brock Lesnar vs. Bill Goldberg (c)

WWE Title Match:
-Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyatt (c)

Fatal 4 Way for the Raw Women’s Title:
-Nia Jax vs. Sasha Banks vs. Charlotte Flair vs. Bayley (c)

WWE United States Title Match:
-Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jericho (c)

WWE Intercontinental Title Match:
-Baron Corbin vs. Dean Ambrose (c)

Triple Threat for the Raw Tag Team Titles:
-Enzo Amore & Big Cass vs. Sheamus & Cesaro vs. Luke Gallows & Karl Anderson (c’s)

Smackdown Women’s Title Match:
-Mickie James vs. Carmella vs. Natalya vs. Becky Lynch vs. Alexa Bliss (c) vs TBA

WWE Cruiserweight Title Match:
-Austin Aries vs. Neville (c)

Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal:
-Mojo Rawley, Apollo Crews, Big Show, Curt Hawkins and others TBA

-Roman Reigns vs. The Undertaker

-John Cena and Nikki Bella vs. The Miz and Maryse

-Shane McMahon vs. AJ Styles

-Triple H vs Seth Rollins

The event will be hosted by Kofi Kingston, Xavier Woods and Big E – The New Day.

A casual viewer will look at this card and said "This is too much.... "

 

[Sheroking]

A casual viewer will look at this card and said "This is too much.... "

Casual viewers look at the top of the card and then stop.

Just like MMA and Boxing tbh. No casual fan gives a shit about the undercard.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Casual viewers look at the top of the card and then stop.

Just like MMA and Boxing tbh. No casual fan gives a shit about the undercard.

The problem is that WWE advertises like half the damned card as "the Main Event."

 

[Paracelsus]

The problem is that WWE advertises like half the damned card as "the Main Event."

Punk: So Hunter goes 'you know, Punk, you were in the best match at WrestleMania last year and that was the main event.' And I was like 'I'm not fucking stupid. The main event is the last match. You can push it to people who buy the PPV there's four main events; there's one main event. There's always been one main event

.

 

[Sheroking]

The problem is that WWE advertises like half the damned card as "the Main Event."

Well.. like three matches. The titles and Taker usually. There's almost always one they promote more than any other.

This year it's the "hey casuals! Goldberg and Lesnar!" show. Which I know thrills smarks everywhere.

 

[Kaiterra]

Where is Goldberg's son on the card?

 

[Anth0ny]

Well.. like three matches. The titles and Taker usually. There's almost always one they promote more than any other.

This year it's the "hey casuals! Goldberg and Lesnar!" show. Which I know thrills smarks everywhere.

the titles and taker.

and john cena.

and shane o mac

and THE GAME-UH.

 

[Sheroking]

the titles and taker.

and john cena.

and shane o mac

and THE GAME-UH.

I think you're confusing building a match for the card with marketing something as the main event.

The Cena/Miz thing is not being promoted much. Neither is Shane/AJ really. I think you have to go back to Hunter/Taker 3 or maybe Hunter/Lesnar to find a HHH match that's gotten that kind of marketing push, excepting maybe Wrestlemania 30 which had more to do with Bryan getting to the main event than HHH.

This year it's basically just Lesnar/Goldberg in the marketing.

 

[Toki767]

I think you're confusing building a match for the card with marketing something as the main event.

The Cena/Miz thing is not being promoted much. Neither is Shane/AJ really. I think you have to go back to Hunter/Taker 3 or maybe Hunter/Lesnar to find a HHH match that's gotten that kind of marketing push, excepting maybe Wrestlemania 30 which had more to do with Bryan getting to the main event than HHH.

Orton/Wyatt is barely being promoted either.

The most promotion is going towards Lesnar/Goldberg and Undertaker/Reigns.

Everything else is basically stuff you don't need to care about.

 

[moffattron9000]

Well.. like three matches. The titles and Taker usually. There's almost always one they promote more than any other.

This year it's the "hey casuals! Goldberg and Lesnar!" show. Which I know thrills smarks everywhere.

I've come to terms with it. WrestleMania is a nostalgia fuelled party for gen-X'ers that want to relive their youth. SummerSlam is the show for core fans that are there week in and week out.

I may not like it, but I've still got New Japan.

 

[NoRéN]

WWE Universal Title Match:
-Brock Lesnar vs. Bill Goldberg (c)

WWE Title Match:
-Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyatt (c)

Fatal 4 Way for the Raw Women’s Title:
-Nia Jax vs. Sasha Banks vs. Charlotte Flair vs. Bayley (c)

WWE United States Title Match:
-Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jericho (c)

WWE Intercontinental Title Match:
-Baron Corbin vs. Dean Ambrose (c)

Triple Threat for the Raw Tag Team Titles:
-Enzo Amore & Big Cass vs. Sheamus & Cesaro vs. Luke Gallows & Karl Anderson (c’s)

Smackdown Women’s Title Match:
-Mickie James vs. Carmella vs. Natalya vs. Becky Lynch vs. Alexa Bliss (c) vs TBA

WWE Cruiserweight Title Match:
-Austin Aries vs. Neville (c)

Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal:
-Mojo Rawley, Apollo Crews, Big Show, Curt Hawkins and others TBA

-Roman Reigns vs. The Undertaker

-John Cena and Nikki Bella vs. The Miz and Maryse

-Shane McMahon vs. AJ Styles

-Triple H vs Seth Rollins

The event will be hosted by Kofi Kingston, Xavier Woods and Big E – The New Day.

Positive - new day not "wrestling"

Negative - new day trying too hard to be funny

 

[Striker]

Apparently it's a "record low for a show that was not up against a major sports event and did not air on a holiday". Still significant, but not an overall low.

Still, this is down 350k viewers from same time last year, for a 10% drop, and down 860k viewers from the same time two years ago, for a 22% drop.

NFL and NCAA basketball have posted record highs in the past few years while WWE's continues to drop. I mean it has been dropping since 2001 but in the past couple years it has been a sharp decline. Lowest since prior to the Monday Night Wars.

Still you will see folks justify it with Youtube clips or illegal streams when you can easily do those for any sporting events.

It just isn't good.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

WWE Universal Title Match:
-Brock Lesnar vs. Bill Goldberg (c)

WWE Title Match:
-Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyatt (c)

Fatal 4 Way for the Raw Women’s Title:
-Nia Jax vs. Sasha Banks vs. Charlotte Flair vs. Bayley (c)

WWE United States Title Match:
-Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jericho (c)

WWE Intercontinental Title Match:
-Baron Corbin vs. Dean Ambrose (c)

Triple Threat for the Raw Tag Team Titles:
-Enzo Amore & Big Cass vs. Sheamus & Cesaro vs. Luke Gallows & Karl Anderson (c’s)

Smackdown Women’s Title Match:
-Mickie James vs. Carmella vs. Natalya vs. Becky Lynch vs. Alexa Bliss (c) vs TBA

WWE Cruiserweight Title Match:
-Austin Aries vs. Neville (c)

Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal:
-Mojo Rawley, Apollo Crews, Big Show, Curt Hawkins and others TBA

-Roman Reigns vs. The Undertaker

-John Cena and Nikki Bella vs. The Miz and Maryse

-Shane McMahon vs. AJ Styles

-Triple H vs Seth Rollins

The event will be hosted by Kofi Kingston, Xavier Woods and Big E – The New Day.

Fuck this is going to be like 7 hours long isnt it

 

[Menome]

Fuck this is going to be like 7 hours long isnt it

Only if no matches overrun.

 

[Y2Kev]

Lol they couldn't even get the new day into a match?

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Only if no matches overrun.

And the Rock keeps his flamethrower segment to under a half hour

 

[Menome]

Lol they couldn't even get the new day into a match?

They haven't managed that on RAW for over a month now.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

They haven't managed that on RAW for over a month now.

Xavier did have a triple threat match recently.

 

[Aiii]

Xavier did have a triple threat match recently.

He got pinned pretty hard though. Not sure he can recover from that.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Lol they couldn't even get the new day into a match?

They're going to be with Hogan, that's a much bigger spot brother

 

[Plinko]

WWE Universal Title Match:
-Brock Lesnar vs. Bill Goldberg (c)

WWE Title Match:
-Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyatt (c)

Fatal 4 Way for the Raw Women’s Title:
-Nia Jax vs. Sasha Banks vs. Charlotte Flair vs. Bayley (c)

WWE United States Title Match:
-Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jericho (c)

WWE Intercontinental Title Match:
-Baron Corbin vs. Dean Ambrose (c)

Triple Threat for the Raw Tag Team Titles:
-Enzo Amore & Big Cass vs. Sheamus & Cesaro vs. Luke Gallows & Karl Anderson (c’s)

Smackdown Women’s Title Match:
-Mickie James vs. Carmella vs. Natalya vs. Becky Lynch vs. Alexa Bliss (c) vs TBA

WWE Cruiserweight Title Match:
-Austin Aries vs. Neville (c)

Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal:
-Mojo Rawley, Apollo Crews, Big Show, Curt Hawkins and others TBA

-Roman Reigns vs. The Undertaker

-John Cena and Nikki Bella vs. The Miz and Maryse

-Shane McMahon vs. AJ Styles

-Triple H vs Seth Rollins

The event will be hosted by Kofi Kingston, Xavier Woods and Big E – The New Day.

I'm genuinely stunned they made a card as bad as this.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

WWE Universal Title Match:
-Brock Lesnar vs. Bill Goldberg (c)

WWE Title Match:
-Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyatt (c)

Fatal 4 Way for the Raw Women’s Title:
-Nia Jax vs. Sasha Banks vs. Charlotte Flair vs. Bayley (c)

WWE United States Title Match:
-Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jericho (c)

WWE Intercontinental Title Match:
-Baron Corbin vs. Dean Ambrose (c)

Triple Threat for the Raw Tag Team Titles:
-Enzo Amore & Big Cass vs. Sheamus & Cesaro vs. Luke Gallows & Karl Anderson (c’s)

Smackdown Women’s Title Match:
-Mickie James vs. Carmella vs. Natalya vs. Becky Lynch vs. Alexa Bliss (c) vs TBA

WWE Cruiserweight Title Match:
-Austin Aries vs. Neville (c)

Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal:
-Mojo Rawley, Apollo Crews, Big Show, Curt Hawkins and others TBA

-Roman Reigns vs. The Undertaker

-John Cena and Nikki Bella vs. The Miz and Maryse

-Shane McMahon vs. AJ Styles

-Triple H vs Seth Rollins

The event will be hosted by Kofi Kingston, Xavier Woods and Big E – The New Day.

AJ Styles is fighting Shane.

Haha. What the hell.

At least make him fight the Undertaker and win.

 

[Aiii]

They're going to be with Hogan, that's a much bigger spot brother

Xavier does have things in common with Hogan that are sure to get over well with that Mania crowd. It's true.

 

[Sou Da]

Xavier did have a triple threat match recently.

He got pinned pretty hard though. Not sure he can recover from that.

Is this on the Network?🤔

 

[Aiii]

Is this on the Network?��

The prequel is on WWE's YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oexUnvUmTnQ

 

[Couleurs]

I'm genuinely stunned they made a card as bad as this.

I'm not; except for 30 which was good for the most part, Wrestlemania has been really bad for years now. Just like the Rumble, they've managed to consistently fuck up their biggest shows because the company is completely inept.

Though I did get suckered after Omega/Okada happened and Meltzer talked about inside sources saying the WWE was trying to set up a match to top that at Mania. Get all excited then the Rumble happens and you realize nothing will ever change.

 

[Woetyler]

 

[kiguel182]

Punks comments were true then and are true now.

Making Goldberg v Lesnar for the main event is a shame and tells everyone that those two dudes are better than everyone else. And they barely show up.

Pushing Reigns when a lot of people didn't care for him is/was dumb but this main event takes the cake for short sided decisions.

 

[Sou Da]

The prequel is on WWE's YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oexUnvUmTnQ

"Well, this is familiar"

Jesus.

 

[Ravager61]

TBH as a straight card, I don't think it looks that bad. Granted, I haven't watched a Raw or Smackdown in probably 6 months though so I haven't been exposed to their terrible story lines that lead up to the matches.

AJ vs Shane is a fucking travesty though.

 

[Striker]

AJ got popular elsewhere too late. He could've wrestled Angle, Benoit, Jericho when he wasn't 40+, Guerrero and Michaels. WWE weren't interested then because, well, they had leftover AE guys and Cena and Batista getting pushes.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

AJ got popular elsewhere too late. He could've wrestled Angle, Benoit, Jericho when he wasn't 40+, Guerrero and Michaels. WWE weren't interested then because, well, they had leftover AE guys and Cena and Batista getting pushes.

I've always heard that John Laurinaitis was the reason why most of the good indy guys (besides CM Punk and Bryan) didn't get a shot during that era.

 

[Ronin Ray]

Positive - new day not "wrestling"

Negative - new day trying too hard to be funny

I would take any member of the New Day wrestling over Shane and so many other on this card .

The real travesty though is no Samoa Joe and nakamura, on the card .
Asuka vs Charlotte would also be money

 

[geomon]

Lol they couldn't even get the new day into a match?

They have no idea what to do with The New Day. They can't break them up because they can literally put human shit into a cereal box and sell a million units. They can't have them fighting for the championship again because we've seen that shit already and once you've beaten everyone on the roster, what else is there to do?

So they're basically just merch movers right now. They throw them out there every week, whether they're wrestling or not (mostly not), just to tell the audience, "Hey, buy the merch!"

 

[Autumn Wind]

I've always heard that John Laurinaitis was the reason why most of the good indy guys (besides CM Punk and Bryan) didn't get a shot during that era.

On one hand, you think badly of a guy could have brought these guys in early. On the other, you think of a guy who (in the case of AJ) won his first NWA World Title only with the help of Vince Russo and had him as his manager. It would have been tough to shake that stigma.

 

[31GhostsIV]

WWE Universal Title Match:
-Brock Lesnar vs. Bill Goldberg (c)

WWE Title Match:
-Randy Orton vs. Bray Wyatt (c)

Fatal 4 Way for the Raw Women’s Title:
-Nia Jax vs. Sasha Banks vs. Charlotte Flair vs. Bayley (c)

WWE United States Title Match:
-Kevin Owens vs. Chris Jericho (c)

WWE Intercontinental Title Match:
-Baron Corbin vs. Dean Ambrose (c)

Triple Threat for the Raw Tag Team Titles:
-Enzo Amore & Big Cass vs. Sheamus & Cesaro vs. Luke Gallows & Karl Anderson (c’s)

Smackdown Women’s Title Match:
-Mickie James vs. Carmella vs. Natalya vs. Becky Lynch vs. Alexa Bliss (c) vs TBA

WWE Cruiserweight Title Match:
-Austin Aries vs. Neville (c)

Andre the Giant Memorial Battle Royal:
-Mojo Rawley, Apollo Crews, Big Show, Curt Hawkins and others TBA

-Roman Reigns vs. The Undertaker

-John Cena and Nikki Bella vs. The Miz and Maryse

-Shane McMahon vs. AJ Styles

-Triple H vs Seth Rollins

The event will be hosted by Kofi Kingston, Xavier Woods and Big E – The New Day.

Hahaha, of course the Universal Title is the main event. You know, the belt they created mere months ago. And now they're going to put it on Brock I presume? So he can defend it once every six months again, like last time. Genius.

 

[Tom Nook]

Will Goldberg still be around after mania?

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Will Goldberg still be around after mania?

If they pay him he will.

As of yet they have not done so, so he is not expected post-mania as WM33 is the last of his contracted dates.

 

[Anth0ny]

Remember kids, Mania is basically a non canon shit show these days and most results are made meaningless either the next night on raw or the next ppv.


Nothing matters

 

[Tom Nook]

Remember kids, Mania is basically a non canon shit show these days and most results are made meaningless either the next night on raw or the next ppv.


Nothing matters

Sad.

Look at last year:

Zack won the IC belt, loses it the next night.

Shane lost against the Undertaker to lose control of RAW, only be GM of RAW couple of weeks later.

Charlotte won the inaugural WWE Women's Championship. If she wins, she will be a 5-time champion - only to lose it to Bayley the next night.

 

[yuraya]

They kind of rushed on the Owens/Jericho and Wyatt/Orton feuds. Should have let them marinate for another year or so. Maybe even longer. Would have had more impact I think.

Goldberg vs Lesnar and HHH vs Rollins are deserved matches tho. They've been hyping them up for 6+ months now.

AJ vs Shane is truly the worst thing about this Mania. Shane has no business being in back to back Mania matches let alone being in the same ring as Styles. They should have just done another Cena vs AJ match. The Rumble match was 5*.

If both Goldberg and Jericho leave after then RAW is gonna be the worst shit ever. Prepare for 3 hours of Roman and Strowman every Monday. Along with Steph bossing everyone around.

 

[jmdajr]

I'm not that cynical about Mania, but everyone should enjoy this.

 

[Anth0ny]

Sad.

Look at last year:

Zack won the IC belt, loses it the next night.

Shane lost against the Undertaker to lose control of RAW, only be GM of RAW couple of weeks later.

Charlotte won the inaugural WWE Women's Championship. If she wins, she will be a 5-time champion - only to lose it to Bayley the next night.

Keep going.

Styles pinned Jericho the next night after losing to Jericho at Mania.

League of Nations beat the New Day at Mania in a 6 man tag. League of Nations was never relevant and LOST to New Day the next night in an actual tag team title match.

Lesnar beat Ambrose clean, was never referred to again.


No one remembers the main event because it was after 6 hours of complete shit and everyone wanted to die.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Charlotte won the inaugural WWE Women's Championship. If she wins, she will be a 5-time champion - only to lose it to Bayley the next night.

These sorts of cynical complaints make it pretty clear when you guys are just belt or kayfabe prestige marks. :/ Who cares about this in particular? Why does it matter who has the belt when there are 20 of them? Why be cynical about your own hypothetical future booking?

Charlotte was my favorite wrestler in 2016, and none of her rapid title switches made any of her feuds or matches any less important or fun in my eyes.

Keep going.

Styles pinned Jericho the next night after losing to Jericho at Mania.

League of Nations beat the New Day at Mania in a 6 man tag. League of Nations was never relevant and LOST to New Day the next night in an actual tag team title match.

Lesnar beat Ambrose clean, was never referred to again.


No one remembers the main event because it was after 6 hours of complete shit and everyone wanted to die.

Last year's Wrestlemania was hot dog shit, but let's not forget nearly the entire card was reworked that winter because many top stars were out with injuries. This year is along the same lines. This is no excuse, of course, because we all know Vince is way out of touch, but I think it's important to remember this is a LIVE three-times-a-week-minimum television product with a lot of moving parts. Not every year is going to be a winner, and I wouldn't have wanted any of these things you're mentioning followed up on anyway.