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[ZywyPL]

The link i send it to you will fix the input lag you are talking about.

With Orion tech, input lag shouldn't be a big deal like it is now.

I think that might even be the number one reason MS bought Bethesda in the first place.

 

[Marty-McFly]

Pretty sure that Switch was sitting on his cabinet before Nintendo officially told him they didn't want Gamepass on Switch.

 

[Hendrick's]

Apple is the same. 30% tax. Apple banned the GamePass app from offering game streaming because they saw it as a competition to their Apple Arcade. The new Xbox app also cannot buy games from the store anymore on iOS or Android (the old one could). So they had to use Safari to do the streaming.

People who only use iPhones have no idea how much worse Apple is purposefully making their experience using apps with outside marketplaces.

 

[reksveks]

People who only use iPhones have no idea how much worse Apple is purposefully making their experience using apps with outside marketplaces.

Waiting to see what Reed Hastings and Netflix do once they include games. I hope they have the balls to stand up to Apple here.

 

[Chukhopops]

The digital ratio is very similar as well. Xbox having 20% of sales isn't very healthy, so it's obvious that a factor like Gamepass is depressing sales, as the userbase is being trained to wait for any game on gamepass.

Gamepass is GREAT PR and an excellent deal for people that like older games, middling filler and MS's first party games, but the numbers are the reality: 2:1 next gen console sales, 80% of third party sales, Gamepass losing hundreds of millions.

How would GP even lose hundreds of millions if it’s only middling filler and older games? Make up your mind, is it too good or too bad?

 

[elliot5]

I think that might even be the number one reason MS bought Bethesda in the first place.

No, it was for the studio talent and most importantly the IP that came with it.

Orion isn't proven out outside of a demo with DOOM Eternal from back in 2018 (?). It would have been much cheaper to poach Google employees or acquire some streaming startup than to drop $7B for Orion as the top priority.

 

[reksveks]

The digital ratio is very similar as well.

Link for those stats? Preferably globally and not for a single title

 

[Hezekiah]

Now I wouldn't. However, what if Gamepass offered every AAA title from every publisher from day one, and with the guarantee the games would never leave the service?

You telling me you wouldn't pay £70pm for that service? For the cost of a single game, you're getting monthly access to every single game whenever and wherever you want.

That would literally never happen.

They're trying to extract more money out of you, not less lol.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Looks like Xbox doesn't understand something very basic; that the format of the hardware device determines what kind of games would be popular on it.

It doesn't matter how many phones does Xbox app run on, the types of games that a phone gamer likes would still be designed for phones. And phone gamers are already spoiled for choice when it comes to completely free gaming experiences.

Look, Nintendo tried to tap into the smartphone market, and despite making money they have given up. You don't make it in that space just because you put in the Xbox app. But good luck to you for trying. It is a VERY competitive space with very few winners.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Seriously, if Gamepass in it’s full form comes to PS5 and even the Switch in any way, why buy an XBOX? Sony or Nintendo exclusives, third party exclusives, Japanese games and Xbox exclusives all on one single device. Yeah, I know Microsoft make most of their money off of software and more devices equates to more money especially to offset Gamepass and development costs, but imo staying in hardware seems like a waste of time, money and resources.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

Seriously, if Gamepass in it’s full form comes to PS5 and even the Switch in any way, why buy an XBOX? Sony or Nintendo exclusives, third party exclusives, Japanese games and Xbox exclusives all on one single device. Yeah, I know Microsoft make most of their money off of software and more devices equates to more money especially to offset Gamepass and development costs, but imo staying in hardware seems like a waste of time, money and resources.

It's the chicken and egg problem. The less people own consoles, the less Xbox get paid 30% for third party games, the less Xbox benefit from making and selling hardware.

Now, this happened with Sega, and they went Third Party. In this case Xbox say "no, we will not go third party, we will just become a digital console". Whether being a digital console would actual work, no one knows; As i kept reminding people, the android phone space is crowded and not some untapped source of revenue.

 

[kingfey]

Looks like Xbox doesn't understand something very basic; that the format of the hardware device determines what kind of games would be popular on it.

It doesn't matter how many phones does Xbox app run on, the types of games that a phone gamer likes would still be designed for phones. And phone gamers are already spoiled for choice when it comes to completely free gaming experiences.

Look, Nintendo tried to tap into the smartphone market, and despite making money they have given up. You don't make it in that space just because you put in the Xbox app. But good luck to you for trying. It is a VERY competitive space with very few winners.

You would be making sense, if xbox was like sony.

Xbox has 1 system. Cloud saves. This makes playing your games anywhere much more sense. Unlike Sony, which seems to have problems with Ps4/Ps5 saves.

1 game can be played on different devices, and still play where you left it.

My little brother can play his Minecraft on his tablet, then play it on my xbox. In game purchases are tied to the 1 account you have.

Here is simple break down chart.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

You would be making sense, if xbox was like sony.

Xbox has 1 system. Cloud saves. This makes playing your games anywhere much more sense. Unlike Sony, which seems to have problems with Ps4/Ps5 saves.

1 game can be played on different devices, and still play where you left it.

My little brother can play his Minecraft on his tablet, then play it on my xbox. In game purchases are tied to the 1 account you have.

Here is simple break down chart.

You are completely missing my point.
How the hardware is used determine what kind of games are popular on it.

You are just saying you can run console games on a phone, you haven't explained why someone who play only on phones would be interested in a console game. Further, you actually expect such a person to pay monthy fees when they could already play endless numbers of free games?

You were talking about your brother, who is ALREADY a console gamer, playing on his phone. But that is a completely different beast to telling a phone gamer to buy console games. And that is where Xbox has the wrong idea. Phone gamers are not starving for content, and definitely not hungry to pay for game subscriptions. Good luck convincing them.

 

[Bulletbrain]

You are completely missing my point.
How the hardware is used determine what kind of games are popular on it.

You are just saying you can run console games on a phone, you haven't explained why someone who play only on phones would be interested in a console game. Further, you actually expect such a person to pay monthy fees when they could already play endless numbers of free games?

You were talking about your brother, who is ALREADY a console gamer, playing on his phone. But that is a completely different beast to telling a phone gamer to buy console games. And that is where Xbox has the wrong idea. Phone gamers are not starving for content, and definitely not hungry to pay for game subscriptions. Good luck convincing them.

I would assume MS did plenty of market research beforehand and found there is a potential market that indeed are currently mobile exclusive players, but willing to pay more for XBOX branded games. Any corporation would do enough prep work before launching a strategy. Personally, I see MS trying to compete on value this gen (XSS, gamepass) so if they can hit a price point that is appealing to mobile players, there should be an opening to penetrate the market rather easily.

 

[Magic Carpet]

People who only use iPhones have no idea how much worse Apple is purposefully making their experience using apps with outside marketplaces.

I'm one of these and I have very much noticed it.
I have bought every iphone from the very first all the way to the Iphone 8 Plus. BUT It's almost 4 years since I bought a new phone. The Iphone 8 was the height of mobile tech.
Mobile tech has not budged a single inch in my mind.
Apple have no choice but to hold onto their 'service' side of things.
I've seen the rumors for the 2021 iphone offerings and it's kind of Meh,. I'm going to hold onto my old iphone for a 5th year.
Weird that 5 years of mobile tech and still nothing really new worth shelling out 1000 bucks.
I will be behind in all the services that are on offer and eventually I'm probly going to crack my screen and shop for something new.
Apple.... I really don't want to give up on the iphone but I am not sticking around if the tech isn't going anywhere and you just prevent me from accessing services.

 

[Agent X]

Phone gamers are not starving for content, and definitely not hungry to pay for game subscriptions.

True. Of the people that I know that play games on mobile phones, most of them rarely pay for games or add-on content. They're usually content to put up with a few ads if it means they can continue playing for free.

If someone happens to have a craving for a mobile game subscription service, Apple Arcade and Google Play Pass already exist for that purpose. Both of those services are relatively inexpensive, and the games they offer are tailored towards mobile phone hardware, with screen size and touch/tilt inputs in mind.

 

[kingfey]

You are completely missing my point.
How the hardware is used determine what kind of games are popular on it.

You are just saying you can run console games on a phone, you haven't explained why someone who play only on phones would be interested in a console game. Further, you actually expect such a person to pay monthy fees when they could already play endless numbers of free games?

You were talking about your brother, who is ALREADY a console gamer, playing on his phone. But that is a completely different beast to telling a phone gamer to buy console games. And that is where Xbox has the wrong idea. Phone gamers are not starving for content, and definitely not hungry to pay for game subscriptions. Good luck convincing them.

Xcloud. This is phones use to run xbox games. Xcloud uses XSX.

Mobile gamers like games like gtav. Having halo run on mobile is a great for them. They will get their fps thirsty playing on their phone. Indie game? There are tons xcloud indie games. Sports games? Forza 5 is available on xcloud. Fighting games? Ms adds them to xcloud on a yearly rotation. KI is on xcloud forever. These type of games, can be played on their phone.

He plays on his tablet all the time. And the times he uses my Xbox, he connects it to his tablet. I have to change the user account so he can play it.

You dont buy console games. You pay 15$, to have a console like experience. This much better investment, since they can cancel it anytime they want to. They won't waste $300-$500 on consoles.

 

[Agent X]

Fighting games? Ms adds them to xcloud on a yearly rotation. KI is on xcloud forever. These type of games, can be played on their phone.

Ever try playing a fighting game on a mobile phone? It's already a tricky enough task, especially with touch controls.

Now, imagine playing a fighting game with touch controls on a streaming service.

You think anyone really wants to pay $15 a month for that?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Ever try playing a fighting game on a mobile phone? It's already a tricky enough task, especially with touch controls.

Now, imagine playing a fighting game with touch controls on a streaming service.

You think anyone really wants to pay $15 a month for that?

People are signing up for $15/mth to only play streaming fighting games?

They typical gamer on GAF is going to be a hardcore player itching for the latest console and games. The typical mobile/streamer gamer (cellphone, tablet or Switch) isn't caring about millisecond timing or even having access to the latest games. Yet mobile gaming revenue (smartphone stuff) is bigger than console and PC software sales combined.

If streaming games is that bad, nobody would bother playing portable on their phone.

 

[Agent X]

The typical mobile/streamer gamer (cellphone, tablet or Switch) isn't caring about millisecond timing or even having access to the latest games.

The typical mobile gamer already has a plethora of fighting games to choose from for cheap or free, and (regardless of whether he cares or not) won't have to deal with the added input lag that is inherent to streaming.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

The typical mobile gamer already has a plethora of fighting games to choose from for cheap or free, and (regardless of whether he cares or not) won't have to deal with the added input lag that is inherent to streaming.

THANK YOU!
I don't know why so many Xbox users don't understand that the phone gamer community are NOT starving for games, and that the hardest part of selling them games is to ask them to pay money.

Phone gamers are entirely resistant to paying money up-front. This is simply how their market had trained them to behave. Sure, they will throw money at lootboxes all day, but asking them to pay subscription is exactly what goes wrong. And phone gamers are not dying of thirst from a lack of games to choose from. Xbox isn't going to be some kind of messiah, showing up to feed the famished.

 

[Azurro]

Xcloud. This is phones use to run xbox games. Xcloud uses XSX.

Mobile gamers like games like gtav. Having halo run on mobile is a great for them. They will get their fps thirsty playing on their phone. Indie game? There are tons xcloud indie games. Sports games? Forza 5 is available on xcloud. Fighting games? Ms adds them to xcloud on a yearly rotation. KI is on xcloud forever. These type of games, can be played on their phone.

He plays on his tablet all the time. And the times he uses my Xbox, he connects it to his tablet. I have to change the user account so he can play it.

You dont buy console games. You pay 15$, to have a console like experience. This much better investment, since they can cancel it anytime they want to. They won't waste $300-$500 on consoles.

You don't understand the market you are talking about, simply because you like the brand and want to eat up the PR.

Time and again it's been told to you, there tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of mobile games out there. Content is not an issue.

The userbase can't give two shits about console games on their phones, and getting them to pay for a subscription is just not something that they do.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

THANK YOU!
I don't know why so many Xbox users don't understand that the phone gamer community are NOT starving for games, and that the hardest part of selling them games is to ask them to pay money.

Phone gamers are entirely resistant to paying money up-front. This is simply how their market had trained them to behave. Sure, they will throw money at lootboxes all day, but asking them to pay subscription is exactly what goes wrong. And phone gamers are not dying of thirst from a lack of games to choose from. Xbox isn't going to be some kind of messiah, showing up to feed the famished.

You don't understand the market you are talking about, simply because you like the brand and want to eat up the PR.

Time and again it's been told to you, there tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of mobile games out there. Content is not an issue.

The userbase can't give two shits about console games on their phones, and getting them to pay for a subscription is just not something that they do.

And 20 years ago if someone said skip Blockbuster and pay a sub plan to stream old ass movies and TV shows, people would think you're nuts when you can pick and choose what you want to rent for $4 (including renting the latest movies and games) or watch reruns on TV.

And look where NF and Blockbuster are now. And NF still doesn't get all the content or latest movies. But when you got good value and having the app across a ton of devices it helps grow the user base. NF would be a fraction of what it is if it was limited to just PC streaming like the beginning. But add in tv apps, console apps, mobile apps etc.... and it grows. I would never do NF if it was still PC only because I watch my movies on a big TV.

I bet you guys have NF too (or a similar sub plan). Not all sub plans have the same content, but there's options.

Your views on Steam Deck must be it's going to be a total flop since that gadget is trying to allow PC quality games on a handheld. I've never heard anyone begging for that. But it's coming out.

 

[kingfey]

You don't understand the market you are talking about, simply because you like the brand and want to eat up the PR.

Time and again it's been told to you, there tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of mobile games out there. Content is not an issue.

The userbase can't give two shits about console games on their phones, and getting them to pay for a subscription is just not something that they do.

Its you who doesn't understand it.

I WAS A MOBILE USER BEFORE.

I used to play fps games, Mafia like gta3 game. Red dead redemption like game. Ff7 like games.

Xcloud would have been a major blessing for me, during that time.

Also, Mobile users would happily pay for 100$.

Summoners War breaches $2 billion in lifetime revenue

Com2uS' mobile monster-collecting title Summoners War: Sky Arena has broken $2 billion in lifetime revenue.

www.pocketgamer.biz

I played this game, since 2015. Cheapest pack is 30$.

Now tell me, how can mobile gamers not afford to pay for 15$, which they can get console games on their phone?

 

[MacReady13]

Yeah, that's the fallacy.

He thinks someone who plays Bejeweled once a week on his phone is the same as someone who plays console/PC games with deep systems and complex input devices.

The only way you can get to that 3 billion number is by including those very casual "gamers".

You don't just take someone who occasionally plays a free sudoku game on their phone and say « Hey, you want to pay us 15$ a month? You'll be able to play competitive Halo multiplayer by streaming on your phone! »

At the end of the day, the barrier for gaming isn't that big. 8 year old's can get a Switch on their birthday and jump in a game.

But you got to give it to Phil, the man's got to do what the man's got to do to keep his job.

You can count my parents into that as well. Both 65 years old and will occasionally play games on their phone/ipad but I can tell you right now, if they were asked to pay ANY amount of money to play games they would not pay a cent for it! And especially not for a 1st person shooter or racing game or whatever Xbox wants to release. Microsoft have their heads firmly up their asses if they think those 3 billion "gamers" will pay for their service... If you want to play games, you would buy games on mobile/PC/console. If you just want to have a flirt with games you have those shithouse mobile games and people are happy with that. If Phil thinks he can get some or even most of them to play Xbox games, he's fucking dreaming.

 

[Punished Miku]

Finally tried the cloud stuff on my phone. Played 6 different games and almost all worked nearly perfectly. Just used my Xbox controller with it no problem.

It does feel like a gigantic leap in convenience and its basically a free add on for Gamepass. Im pretty dang impressed.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

You can count my parents into that as well. Both 65 years old and will occasionally play games on their phone/ipad but I can tell you right now, if they were asked to pay ANY amount of money to play games they would not pay a cent for it! And especially not for a 1st person shooter or racing game or whatever Xbox wants to release. Microsoft have their heads firmly up their asses if they think those 3 billion "gamers" will pay for their service... If you want to play games, you would buy games on mobile/PC/console. If you just want to have a flirt with games you have those shithouse mobile games and people are happy with that. If Phil thinks he can get some or even most of them to play Xbox games, he's fucking dreaming.

My parents are in their 80s and if you told them 20 years ago to pay $50+/mth + modem rental fee to have something called the internet to do emails and browse information on the net theyd tell you and me its a waste of money when they can pick up the phone to talk to you and check weather updates on tv.

Then they realized how good it is compared to calling people because you can do something called "email" and communicate to the whole family at once. And this comes from my parents who are two of the cheapest people you'll ever meet and they can barely use a PC. My dad calls my bros and I every once in a while to help him with the printer because he doesnt know what to do when it doesnt work and doesn't know you can google answers for it. Yet they still pay internet fees.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Wtf with these threads

 

[anothertech]

They wish it was on playstation and Nintendo lol

 

[MacReady13]

My parents are in their 80s and if you told them 20 years ago to pay $50+/mth + modem rental fee to have something called the internet to do emails and browse information on the net theyd tell you and me its a waste of money when they can pick up the phone to talk to you and check weather updates on tv.

Then they realized how good it is compared to calling people because you can do something called "email" and communicate to the whole family at once. And this comes from my parents who are two of the cheapest people you'll ever meet and they can barely use a PC. My dad calls my bros and I every once in a while to help him with the printer because he doesnt know what to do when it doesnt work and doesn't know you can google answers for it. Yet they still pay internet fees.

So do my parents. What the fuck does that have to do with my parents gaming like I do, and paying for something they have absolutely no interest in?

 

[DarkMage619]

And 20 years ago if someone said skip Blockbuster and pay a sub plan to stream old ass movies and TV shows, people would think you're nuts when you can pick and choose what you want to rent for $4 (including renting the latest movies and games) or watch reruns on TV.

And look where NF and Blockbuster are now. And NF still doesn't get all the content or latest movies. But when you got good value and having the app across a ton of devices it helps grow the user base. NF would be a fraction of what it is if it was limited to just PC streaming like the beginning. But add in tv apps, console apps, mobile apps etc.... and it grows. I would never do NF if it was still PC only because I watch my movies on a big TV.

I bet you guys have NF too (or a similar sub plan). Not all sub plans have the same content, but there's options.

Your views on Steam Deck must be it's going to be a total flop since that gadget is trying to allow PC quality games on a handheld. I've never heard anyone begging for that. But it's coming out.

MS has a tendency to be ahead of the curve when it comes to certain trends. There was a major uproar when the original Xbox came out without a modem and only had ethernet. They looked like geniuses afterwards but people still complained initially. Kinect was another one because now people talk to smart devices all the time.

As long as the streaming options are just that, an option, people still have the ability to purchase games traditionally and play games locally all the complaining is meaningless. If the market does make any substantial changes MS will be better suited to be prepared for those changes, if not MS still presents the option. It's a win-win.

 

[oagboghi2]

MS has a tendency to be ahead of the curve when it comes to certain trends. There was a major uproar when the original Xbox came out without a modem and only had ethernet. They looked like geniuses afterwards but people still complained initially. Kinect was another one because now people talk to smart devices all the time.

MS "being ahead of the curve" is doing shit that Sega and Sony did before.

Literally rewriting history for MS. Shameless

As long as the streaming options are just that, an option, people still have the ability to purchase games traditionally and play games locally all the complaining is meaningless. If the market does make any substantial changes MS will be better suited to be prepared for those changes, if not MS still presents the option. It's a win-win.

If MS is wrong, then they have pretty much given the retail market to Sony.

 

[Punished Miku]

If MS is wrong, then they have pretty much given the retail market to Sony.

I think MS already did that last gen. Their only shot in my opinion was finding a new path that hasn't been taken yet. They would lose up against Sony if they did the exact same approach, similar to the same conclusion Nintendo arrived at when they launched the Wii.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

So do my parents. What the fuck does that have to do with my parents gaming like I do, and paying for something they have absolutely no interest in?

Because as the value of a service becomes evident, some people will pay up when they initially balked at it as a waste of money.

 

[MacReady13]

Because as the value of a service becomes evident, some people will pay up when they initially balked at it as a waste of money.

You aren't grasping what I'm saying- internet, streaming tv services etc are all services most people are happy to use and pay for in their every day lives. Playing games is a completely different thing altogether. Why would my parents pay to play a set of games they have zero interest in at all when they can play solitaire or some shit casino game on their ipad/iphone as they are watching netflix? They're still considered one of those 3 billion gamers, but my parents are NOT gamers like we are, and they never will be. And my parents are not the only people like this- i'd say the majority of those 3 billion "gamers" are similar, yet Phil, to justify his job cause he can't sell Xbox consoles now wants to pretend Xbox is a service and not a console anymore. Good luck with that Phil.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

You aren't grasping what I'm saying- internet, streaming tv services etc are all services most people are happy to use and pay for in their every day lives. Playing games is a completely different thing altogether. Why would my parents pay to play a set of games they have zero interest in at all when they can play solitaire or some shit casino game on their ipad/iphone as they are watching netflix? They're still considered one of those 3 billion gamers, but my parents are NOT gamers like we are, and they never will be. And my parents are not the only people like this- i'd say the majority of those 3 billion "gamers" are similar, yet Phil, to justify his job cause he can't sell Xbox consoles now wants to pretend Xbox is a service and not a console anymore. Good luck with that Phil.

Why would my parents sign up for the net for 20 years when all they do is send email to us once every two weeks? It's easier and cheaper to just call one of us (and ask that person to spread the word) and check the weather on a local news network?

Not every person signed up to Netflix uses it daily or even weekly. There were times I didnt even use it once all month.

 

[MacReady13]

Why would my parents sign up for the net for 20 years when all they do is send email to us once every two weeks? It's easier and cheaper to just call one of us (and ask that person to spread the word) and check the weather on a local news network?

Not every person signed up to Netflix uses it daily or even weekly. There were times I didnt even use it once all month.

You're not grasping what i'm saying- the internet is used for almost everything today! Why would people NOT have an internet connection at home when almost everything is connected to it?
As for netflix, most people don't watch free to air anymore so Netflix is their main alternative. Now I'm sure MOST people who own a TV would like to use it to watch movies and tv shows on it...
Yet gaming on your phone/ipad etc when you aren't a gamer and never WANT to be a gamer is a different story. And better yet, paying for something you will never ever use cause you are NOT interested in it is a completely different thing! My parents didn't grow up gaming with consoles or on PC like I did so it's not a part of their lives, but they grew up watching tv and have seen the internet intergrated into their every day lives so they want and need them! Gaming- they couldn't give a fuck about it. And like I said, they wouldn't be the minority of the 3 billion "gamers" Phil thinks he can convert to xbox game pass.

 

[DarkMage619]

MS "being ahead of the curve" is doing shit that Sega and Sony did before.

Literally rewriting history for MS. Shameless



If MS is wrong, then they have pretty much given the retail market to Sony.

Oh rewriting history you say? When did Sony or Sega sell a console with a built-in ethernet only connection on their console BEFORE Xbox dude?

MS continues to sell games at retail and digitally. The only thing they seceded was trying to compete on 'who will sell the most boxes' contest.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Oh rewriting history you say? When did Sony or Sega sell a console with a built-in ethernet only connection on their console BEFORE Xbox dude?

MS continues to sell games at retail and digitally. The only thing they seceded was trying to compete on 'who will sell the most boxes' contest.

Then why did MS launch more console boxes than exclusive games in the last 5 years??

Very convenient for them to keep changing the subject because they keep losing to both Sony and Nintendo

 

[dcmk7]

Then why did MS launch more console boxes than exclusive games in the last 5 years??