Support NeoGAF

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Is it because Sony have been pulling this stuff for 15 years?

Sips tea while playing God of War

 

[down 2 orth]

I legit thought a couple of the screenshots for Halo Infinite were from last gen Halo games. Microsoft is in a seriously bad position right now.

 

[Manstructiclops]

Lol, see you in a year in the invitable downgrade threads.

 

[Yoboman]

remember this:

"gameplay" for PS3, that isn't even possible on PS4. Ridiculous. Sony Event this year will be the same for most games. Downgrade is real.

Downgrade is real

 

[Redlight]

As for Horizon, unless Guerrila changed their MO from Horizon Zero Dawn, those were gamplay shots with cinematic camera angles.

If you add cinematic camera angles it's no longer gameplay. Gameplay is untouched footage from the player's POV exactly as the game will be experienced by the player, including any HUD elements etc.

 

[A Most Virtuous Cat]

I actually liked the gameplay?

It was fast and frantic and fun to watch. I haven't played a Halo in a long time so I have no idea how bad they've gotten but I think guys are overeating.

The memes are hilarious though.

Yea, I agree. Guys do be overeating sometimes... Lay off the chips guys!

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

If you add cinematic camera angles it's no longer gameplay. Gameplay is untouched footage from the player's POV exactly as the game will be experienced by the player, including any HUD elements etc.

No i'm pretty sure if the footage captured is of someone playing the game, then it's still gameplay, regardless of whether you've manipulated the camera or turned off the HUD

 

[Dodkrake]

If you add cinematic camera angles it's no longer gameplay. Gameplay is untouched footage from the player's POV exactly as the game will be experienced by the player, including any HUD elements etc.

Are you for real? If the in engine trailer looks the same as gameplay, then it's representative of the quality of the game.

 

[Vroadstar]

Are you for real? If the in engine trailer looks the same as gameplay, then it's representative of the quality of the game.

Are you even surprised? he is pulling an all-nighter because of that debacle of a showcase

 

[Dodkrake]

Are you even surprised? he is pulling an all-nighter because of that debacle of a showcase

that FUD ain't gonna sell itself

 

[bitbydeath]

Well at least you've gone from 'this is gameplay' to 'it might be, you can't prove it isn't'.

That's a definite improvement

I'm leaving it open since devs haven't outright said it.

But what we do know:

1. It was captured directly from PS5.

2. It's all in-engine.

3. HZD never featured uncontrollable action scenes.

4. A controllable camera was a feature in the first game.

5. There was no major differences from uncontrollable scenes to gameplay in HZD.

 

[Snake29]

Lol, see you in a year in the invitable downgrade threads.

Yeah sure, just focus on Xbox, because so far they can't really compete in the graphical department.

 

[MadViking]

At this point I am really disappointed with Xbox. Will they also downgrade HB 2, Fable and other games just like they downgraded Halo, compared to the 2018 trailer? I'm sick of these false promises and fake smiles.

 

[FranXico]

Kyle Bosman gave his two cents

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

I saw the footage of those two games, and while they look nice, it still feels like diminishing returns is rearing its eventual, ugly head. Looking at the Digital Foundry analysis, for example, it's cool that reflections and shadows further out are higher quality, but it feels incremental rather than a radical new direction.

I think what I am looking for is, what new types of gameplay will be available on these new consoles, because I am completely bored of the open world maps with the same missions over and over.

I think we are hitting the classic "old games looked worse than you remember" wall again. Basically, your imagination fills in the blanks for the graphics in the previous generation, and if you go back and replay them again you would really they look much worse than next gen.
How many people genuinely believed some PS4 game "looked like a PS3 title", only to have real PS3 games shown to be much worse when they actually compared them?
And it is telling that we have actual PS5 footage being mistaken for cutscences in this thread. That is exactly what it means for a generational leap.

On the other hand, if you want a new way to play, have a shot at PSVR. I myself am waiting for PSVR2 before jumping in.

 

[JonnyMP3]

I'm leaving it open since devs haven't outright said it.

But what we do know:

1. It was captured directly from PS5.

2. It's all in-engine.

3. HZD never featured uncontrollable action scenes.

4. A controllable camera was a feature in the first game.

5. There was no major differences from uncontrollable scenes to gameplay in HZD.

There's no point in arguing with the damage control that's being spread right now.
Logic isn't a friend to them.
A graphical downgrade is all they can hope for now, despite 7 years worth of PS4 games looking more or less exactly like their trailers as proof that Sony studios are talented as hell.

 

[sonyfifa]

I don't write long threads.

So for me to sit here and post something even this long means I'm dead serious about this

XBOX forced this show. Games were not fully ready to show and they were writing all sorts of checks their ass couldn't cash.

Yes I'm referring to Halo Infinite mainly. The game was just not ready to be shown and they did it anyway. They felt the pressure, and they banked on the power of suggestion to shroud this mediocre showing.

Eagle Eyed tweets show the pop-in...the bad textures, the simply passable gameplay. There was nothing exciting happening in the trailer. The grappling hook was a black line from Chief's hand to whatever object or enemy he was grabbing. Where's the fuckin hook?

I came away from this reveal feeling betrayed...feeling like my intelligence was being mocked. I don't know what decisions brought us to this point, but I am very worried about the state of gaming in general. Sony's show was not great. Xbox's show was not great. Maybe my expectations are really high, but this is supposed to be showing off Next Gen games. I think I'm entitled to the expectation that I will see SOMETHING mindblowing. Neither show hit that bar.

Sony was smarter to not show gameplay at this point and right now, I'm pretty confident we aren't going to see anything definitive any time soon. Sony was smarter to be very matter of fact about their presentation. They didn't build up expectations. They just said, here's the date, hope to see you there. So after Sony's show, though it was also just "okay" it didn't sting as bad.

I respect Phil, but he can't be saying crap like he has this whole time then have an "okay" showing with like 1 or 2 instances of gameplay. I suppose I'm a victim of my own enthusiasm.

I don't even know if this warrants a thread, but I think Xbox hopefuls need to keep it real. Sony fans should recognize the calculus behind this. Regardless, everything I said and the title preceding stands.

its like sony knows what cards microsoft is holding. is ninja sony real ?

 

[Kev Kev]

Agreed


All the pop-in, the bad textures, the warthog doesn't even kick up dust when it drives on grass and gravel. The game is NOT READY it needs to be delayed

just take a breath dude, the game is going to be fine.

i doubt they are going to delay it. theylll just have to do the best they can and make it up after release. if the game comes out shit and unplayable then people wont buy it and hopefully 343 will learn from and make i right with post release updates and content. if they dont, then oh fucking well! its nothing to get "dead serious" about. there are so many good games out there.

whats your bottom-line? is it that you dont want them to release a bad halo game for their sake as a developer or you dont want them to release a bad halo game for your own enjoyments sake? because either way you go with that, its not worth getting upset about (not rhetorical, im genuinely curious how you feel.., in fact none of this post is meant to come across as hostile. im just trying to understand your point while making mine)

here my bottomline: halo isnt as unbelievably massive as it used to be. fps games in general arent as popular. the gaming landscape and gamer's tastes is changing. and thats ok!

halo 4 and 5 didnt over perform (i think they were good games, and they probably made a lot of money, but people had a lot of criticism for them, and they certainly werent on par with halo 2 and 3 as far as popularity) and 343/microsoft kind of realizes its time to move on from the idea that halo is going to be this video game super power that it used to be. so its making infinite to be the last halo game for a long long time. theyre going to build on this "platform"over the next generation and put money into other games and technologies. as such, they probably arent allocating a lot of resources to 343i right now, which is why the trailer wasnt this gangbusters, mega, over the top, mind blowing graphical phenomenon.

and all of that is fine. the world isnt coming to and end, were all just evolving and so is 343i and halo.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

just take a breath dude, the game is going to be fine.

i doubt they are going to delay it. theylll just have to do the best they can and make it up after release. if the game comes out shit and unplayable then people wont buy it and hopefully 343 will learn from and make i right with post release updates and content. if they dont, then oh fucking well! its nothing to get "dead serious" about. there are so many good games out there.

whats your bottom-line? is it that you dont want them to release a bad halo game for their sake as a developer or you dont want them to release a bad halo game for your own enjoyments sake? because either way you go with that, its not worth getting upset about

here my bottomline: halo isnt as unbelievably massive as it used to be. fps games in general arent as popular. the gaming landscape and gamer's tastes is changing. and thats ok!

halo 4 and 5 didnt over perform (i think they were good games, and they probably made a lot of money, but people had a lot of criticism for them, and they certainly werent on par with halo 2 and 3 as far as popularity) and 343/microsoft kind of realizes its time to move on from the idea that halo is going to be this video game super power that it used to be. so its making infinite to be the last halo game for a long long time. theyre going to build on this "platform"over the next generation and put money into other games and technologies. as such, they probably arent allocating a lot of resources to 343i right now, which is why the trailer wasnt this gangbusters, mega, over the top, mind blowing graphical phenomenon.

and all of that is fine. the world isnt coming to and end, were all just evolving and so is 343i and halo.

343i can evolve. But Halo can't guarantee to survive. For that matter, Xbox as a console might not survive.

The question has to be asked; is this the best Xbox has to offer in 2020? Is this trajectory where they are going?

Further, is this an accident, or is this because of intentional decisions Xbox Division had made? Is this what it means to be reliant on Gamepass? Is it what it means to make crossgen titles?

 

[Hunnybun]

The PS5 can run cutscenes and cinematics. Doesn't mean a damn thing. HZFW clearly wasn't gameplay. Don't care if they can deliver or not. It straight up wasn't.

And of course Hellblade 2 will look nothing like the trailer lol.

It's worth noting that Horizon ZD's gameplay looks better than its cutscenses.

Now I realise that the cutscenes will be using technically better graphics, but I mean that the gameplay just LOOKS nicer. I assume because the camera is further away and so doesn't show up the blemishes as much.

So it's possible that Horizon 2 in game will actually look better than what we've seen.

 

[Kev Kev]

343i can evolve. But Halo can't guarantee to survive. For that matter, Xbox as a console might not survive.

The question has to be asked; is this the best Xbox has to offer in 2020? Is this trajectory where they are going?

Further, is this an accident, or is this because of intentional decisions Xbox Division had made? Is this what it means to be reliant on Gamepass? Is it what it means to make crossgen titles?

xbox is going to survive. no question there. will the win out in popularity over sony and nintendo? who know, we'll have to wait and see on that one

is halo going to survive? yes, but halo isnt as big as it used to be and 343i/microsoft recognizes that. being that this is the end of the second trilogy, its a great time to try something new, and give up on the idea of making halo what it used to be nearly 15 years ago. gamers today are much younger than the average age here on gaf. they are into games like fornite and... fortnite lol (i dunno any other games that are popular right now). if they want to make as much money as the can while trying to stay relevant and survive, then they have to change. making halo this new "platform" is there answer.

will it work? fuck i dunno we'll have to wait and see. but i think its not that they were underprepared, its that they arent putting as much time and money into bc they arnet trying ot make it a powerhouse like it used to be. they are making it something that they can continue to work on over this next generation, so it appears a little rough at the moment. the new gamers coming up dont look at fps's the way we do (as far as classic 4v4 slayer and halo style approach to arena competition). 343i is just evolving and i wish the best for them.

 

[Nickolaidas]

you DO know that this isn't the gameplay, right? This is a cutscene lol

This is the gameplay:


looks very downgraded.



At least MS showed true gameplay and not some rendered stuff. The Downgrades will be real.

We all know that Sony is notorious for these ridiculous E3 videos, just look at this:

Best. Shitpost. Ever.

 

[Hunnybun]

Why? Becuse they didn't show Spider-Man gameplay? If they did they would've been roasted for it being 30 FPS no matter what. The biggest difference between the shows is that Sony didn't show gameplay for their launch game.

No, the biggest difference between the shows was that Sony had a load of stuff that looked next generation while Xbox had next to nothing.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

will it work? fuck i dunno we'll have to wait and see. but i think its not that they were underprepared, its that they arent putting as much time and money into bc they arnet trying ot make it a powerhouse like it used to be. they are making it something that they can continue to work on over this next generation, so it appears a little rough at the moment. the new gamers coming up dont look at fps's the way we do (as far as classic 4v4 slayer and halo style approach to arena competition). 343i is just evolving and i wish the best for them.

Are you suggesting they are going to pull a No Man's Sky or Final Fantasy XIV?
I wish them luck, but such redemption arcs are rare in gaming for a reason. It requires a talented director and massive funding support from the IP owners. And if they could have pulled it off they would have done this already.

 

[Redlight]

Are you for real? If the in engine trailer looks the same as gameplay, then it's representative of the quality of the game.

'If'.

Unless they show you what the player sees as they play, then it's not actual gameplay, it's in-engine. I could use cinematic camera angles to make buttering a piece of toast look interesting.

It's hard for me to believe that anyone with experience of video games hasn't been bitten on the arse by this particular trick a time or two.

 

[Redlight]

No i'm pretty sure if the footage captured is of someone playing the game, then it's still gameplay, regardless of whether you've manipulated the camera or turned off the HUD

That's clearly, and completely, untrue. If it's different than the experience that the player will have then it's not gameplay, it's marketing.

 

[Kev Kev]

Are you suggesting they are going to pull a No Man's Sky or Final Fantasy XIV?
I wish them luck, but such redemption arcs are rare in gaming for a reason. It requires a talented director and massive funding support from the IP owners. And if they could have pulled it off they would have done this already.

mmmmm not necessarily exactly like that, but kind of i suppose.

let me ask you this: would it make sense for them to try and make halo 6 the same way they made halo 4 and 5? considering all the criticism they took for 4 and 5, seems like trying to do it again would just be like beating a dead horse and ultimately making a mistake, no?

so this change to a "platform" is (possibly) meant to cut down on bloated dev cycles, and release something new and different, but still feels like halo while catering to an evolving gaming landscape.

theyve proven they cant reinvent or revive the classic halo game... i mean, what developer could do that? and if those developers are out there, why havent they done that yet? i think its bc gamers tastes and age are changing (lol, those two things are likely directly influencing each other) and 343i knows they have to take a new approach instead of trying to do what they did with 4 and 5. that, and i imagine microsoft is not willing to throw unlimited moneys at them for their video games seeing as their last two releases have taken a lot of heat and criticism

as such, the trailer isnt a graphical power bomb. it was never meant to be with this new approach they are taking.

 

[GHG]

So all that people have left is to hope the PS5 games fall short of their respective trailers?

Pathetic.

If only you demanded better from Microsoft with the same amount of energy and enthusiasm.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

That's clearly, and completely, untrue. If it's different than the experience that the player will have then it's not gameplay, it's marketing.

Do I really bring out the dictionary for you? Do we really need to go there?

 

[Dodkrake]

'If'.

Unless they show you what the player sees as they play, then it's not actual gameplay, it's in-engine. I could use cinematic camera angles to make buttering a piece of toast look interesting.

It's hard for me to believe that anyone with experience of video games hasn't been bitten on the arse by this particular trick a time or two.

Enjoy.

 

[Kev Kev]

So all that people have left is to hope the PS5 games fall short of their respective trailers?

Pathetic.

If only you demanded better from Microsoft with the same amount of energy and enthusiasm.

why is it a competition? what do you personally get out of one of these companies "winning"?

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

why is it a competition? what do you personally get out of one of these companies "winning"?

Because Xbox accuse Playstation of being "anti-consumer", and pretended Xbox are actually friends with their customers. All because they couldn't release next gen games on time and needed an excuse. The ground has been laid for the accuser to become the accused. You don't get to play innocent when Xbox started the latest hostilities first.

 

[Kev Kev]

Because Xbox accuse Playstation of being "anti-consumer", and pretended Xbox are actually friends with their customers. All because they couldn't release next gen games on time and needed an excuse. The ground has been laid for the accuser to become the accused. You don't get to play innocent when Xbox started the latest hostilities first.

so youre just here for the console war. got it. i will see my way out

 

[GHG]

why is it a competition? what do you personally get out of one of these companies "winning"?

Nothing... Unless it's AMD.

It's not about winning, it's about these companies putting their best feet forward. As long as Microsoft have people who continue to worship the ground they shit on and don't demand better from them (instead of constantly trying to find ways to attack the competition) then things will just continue on the same trajectory.

Making excuses for these companies benefits nobody.

 

[Kev Kev]

Nothing... Unless it's AMD.

It's not about winning, it's about these companies putting their best feet forward. As long as Microsoft have people who continue to worship the ground they shit on and don't demand better from them (instead of constantly trying to find ways to attack the competition) then things will just continue on the same trajectory.

Making excuses for these companies benefits nobody.

yeah but you said it yourself: you get nothing out of it. seems like a waste of energy to me. but have fun with that. and each side is attacking each other, pathetically. thats never going to change, so yes in that sense yes they will continue on the same trajectory.

also, im not making any excuses. i literally believe they are making a game that isnt a graphical powerhouse in exchange for a game that is fun and has longevity. i doubt we will see another mainline halo game (with MC and all that) until the next generation. no excuses for them, im just saying i think they are taking a different approach.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

yeah but you said it yourself: you get nothing out of it. seems like a waste of energy to me. but have fun with that. and each side is attacking each other, pathetically. thats never going to change, so yes in that sense yes they will continue on the same trajectory.

also, im not making any excuses. i literally believe they are making a game that isnt a graphical powerhouse in exchange for a game that is fun and has longevity. i doubt we will see another mainline halo game (with MC and all that) until the next generation. no excuses for them, im just saying i think they are taking a different approach.

I certainly got something out of it. Xbox decided to pull PC gaming into its marketing in the last few months, using PC to justify their infinite "scaling down". Nearly everything Xbox PR said about PC gaming was wrong. And they said it because they want to use PC gaming's good image to help sell their console. Despite not owning either hardware this gen, I am still gaming on PC. And I hate being lied to.

 

[Kev Kev]

I certainly got something out of it. Xbox decided to pull PC gaming into its marketing in the last few months, using PC to justify their infinite "scaling down". Nearly everything Xbox PR said about PC gaming was wrong. And they said it because they want to use PC gaming's good image to help sell their console. Despite not owning either hardware this gen, I am still gaming on PC. And I hate being lied to.

fight on brave console warrior (who doesnt even own an console )

lol jk man, i see what youre sayin but i guess we just disagree. i hope they can manage to right whatever wrong theyve done to you. im personally really looking forward to the change in gameplay, it sounds mega fun even if it isnt top notch visuals. graphics arent everything my dude

 

[mr.dilya]

That so-called event yesterday was embarassing.

The new Xbox bout to be like the Starbury sneakers to the PS5's Jordans.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

so youre just here for the console war. got it. i will see my way out

It's weird on the gaming side, Kev...

I had to learn as well...

 

[Kev Kev]

It's weird on the gaming side, Kev...

I had to learn as well...

yep, i think im starting to see that now lol, good looking out homie

 

[TheAmazingSpiderMan]

Ninja Theory are extremely talented when it comes to visuals, they've been so since PS3 days. I can actually see them equaling or surpassing Naughty Dog in that department next-gen especially if Naughty Dog continues to bleed talent.

LOL I'm sorry but this gen I've not heard much of them from any Xbox fan at all, I've seen Hellblade in action and it has some good character visuals, but just because a CGI rendered trailer which 'in-engine, in-game' nonsense attached to it doesn't mean that was gameplay. I still can't believe they haven't shown any actual gameplay even though it was announced in 2019

Anything MS say at this point going forward has to be taken with a pinch of salt, check out the e3 demo for halo infinite and compare it to the abysmal showing of yesterday.

As for the bolded apart equaling or surpassing ND, I highly doubt this, let's actually see gameplay from Hellblade 2 before we can even hold them in the same sentence.

 

[TheAmazingSpiderMan]

I mean, we know the Xbox Series X hardware is relatively powerful, in some ways even more so than the PS5. I wonder what the deal is. Maybe it's just 343i.

They've pushed to 12TF way to hard, maybe they're finding it hard to balance the system or probably running into bottlenecks.

The idea to run it on the original Xbox one was probably the most dumbest idea, then we had all these 'tech know it alls' come out and say 'they can scale it just like they do for pc'

Clearly it looked rough most likely due to it having to be run with the Xbox one.

The game releases in holiday 2020 so no idea how they could improve it that much in the space of a few months, and it was also running on a pc with equivalent specs to the series X.

 

[eastwood333]

The issue is Sony has a lot of 1st party studios that are able to keep the games coming in a timely manner. MS just acquired many of these studios not that long ago. Their games simply are not ready to be shown. The lack of 1st party studios over the past several years is coming to roost now. The future looks bright. But the first couple of years are going to be very rough for XSX. Had Halo Infinite turned out better, XSX could have rode on the back of that game for a nice while.

 

[Nickolaidas]

They've pushed to 12TF way to hard, maybe they're finding it hard to balance the system or probably running into bottlenecks.

The idea to run it on the original Xbox one was probably the most dumbest idea, then we had all these 'tech know it alls' come out and say 'they can scale it just like they do for pc'

Clearly it looked rough most likely due to it having to be run with the Xbox one.

The game releases in holiday 2020 so no idea how they could improve it that much in the space of a few months, and it was also running on a pc with equivalent specs to the series X.

If you think about it, the PR of the most powerful console combined with the old-gen support for two years was the epitome of stupidity.

It's like: "Behold, here is Forga Silus, the most strong armed gladiator in the land! But in this fight, the combatants can only use kicks."

 

[Hunnybun]

The issue is Sony has a lot of 1st party studios that are able to keep the games coming in a timely manner. MS just acquired many of these studios not that long ago. Their games simply are not ready to be shown. The lack of 1st party studios over the past several years is coming to roost now. The future looks bright. But the first couple of years are going to be very rough for XSX. Had Halo Infinite turned out better, XSX could have rode on the back of that game for a nice while.

Yep it was painfully obvious that they just weren't ready.

Hellblade still years away, as are Fable and Avowed, and The Initiative's thing is probably even further off than those. I'm not sure what Turn 10's excuse is, though. That should've at least shown gameplay.

 

[M_A_C]

I came away from this reveal feeling betrayed...feeling like my intelligence was being mocked.

Wouldn't be a new Xbox Console reveal if you didn't feel that way!

 

[Freeman]

I respect Phil. He managed to hustle Xbox fans for years. He was responsible for MS's European studios during the worst days of Lionhead and Rare, general manager of Microsoft Studios during when they made their biggest mistakes (somehow lost Rare, relied on buying exclusives, pivoted to Kinect development), he defied all odds and took Mattrick's place watching everyone that was by his side during the Xbox One reveal fall.

Once he took over he canceled a bunch of games and lived of false promises ever since. He also is the only executive that fan the flames of consoles wars while at the same posing as the good guy. MS entire marketing is geared towards console wars, always comparing themselves to Sony and maintaining close ties to their most infamous warrior.

He realized it would take years to turn around their console business and decided to spin it into gamepass. Maybe it's going to work but I have my doubts.

 

[herzausstein1986]

The game releases this holiday season. How is it not ready to be shown?

Games get delayed all the time.

 

[Kerotan]

This whole build up felt rushed from MS. They've been talking next gen for way too long but the reason being they had nothing to talk about this gen.

Sony had a ton of quality games last year and this year so focused on them and left ps5 talk for as late as possible. Then they impressed with their ps5 reveal unlike xbox.

 

[kruis]

This whole build up felt rushed from MS. They've been talking next gen for way too long but the reason being they had nothing to talk about this gen.

Sony had a ton of quality games last year and this year so focused on them and left ps5 talk for as late as possible. Then they impressed with their ps5 reveal unlike xbox.

Quite a large number of the games MS presented last night have just started development (Avowed, State of Decay, Fable, Everwild, etc.). We will not see those games on store shelves until 2022 or later. Sony on the other hand has only showcased first party games that will be available this year or next year.