Xbox forced it. No apologies, no excuses. Sony was smarter about their reveal.

just take a breath dude, the game is going to be fine.

i doubt they are going to delay it. theylll just have to do the best they can and make it up after release. if the game comes out shit and unplayable then people wont buy it and hopefully 343 will learn from and make i right with post release updates and content. if they dont, then oh fucking well! its nothing to get "dead serious" about. there are so many good games out there.

whats your bottom-line? is it that you dont want them to release a bad halo game for their sake as a developer or you dont want them to release a bad halo game for your own enjoyments sake? because either way you go with that, its not worth getting upset about (not rhetorical, im genuinely curious how you feel.., in fact none of this post is meant to come across as hostile. im just trying to understand your point while making mine)

here my bottomline: halo isnt as unbelievably massive as it used to be. fps games in general arent as popular. the gaming landscape and gamer's tastes is changing. and thats ok!

halo 4 and 5 didnt over perform (i think they were good games, and they probably made a lot of money, but people had a lot of criticism for them, and they certainly werent on par with halo 2 and 3 as far as popularity) and 343/microsoft kind of realizes its time to move on from the idea that halo is going to be this video game super power that it used to be. so its making infinite to be the last halo game for a long long time. theyre going to build on this "platform"over the next generation and put money into other games and technologies. as such, they probably arent allocating a lot of resources to 343i right now, which is why the trailer wasnt this gangbusters, mega, over the top, mind blowing graphical phenomenon.

and all of that is fine. the world isnt coming to and end, were all just evolving and so is 343i and halo.
Fuck them as a developer. I'm looking at this strictly as a consumer. I want Halo to be awesome. I want it to feel next gen. I could say that I feel the same way about Sony's exclusives. The only thing is, Sony hasn't botched on their delivery of these conferences because they are still largely mum on what exactly they are offering. So all I'm left with is largely speculation. I mean this in terms of showing true gameplay. Let Horizon 2 look like a PS4 game. I'mma be just as pissed. You don't talk up your console and "We believe in generations" and then shovel some reprocessed hot garbage on your show. That's the bottom line. Phil talked a good game and I expected much better than what we got. I don't root for plastic boxes. I love games period.
 
LOL I'm sorry but this gen I've not heard much of them from any Xbox fan at all, I've seen Hellblade in action and it has some good character visuals, but just because a CGI rendered trailer which 'in-engine, in-game' nonsense attached to it doesn't mean that was gameplay. I still can't believe they haven't shown any actual gameplay even though it was announced in 2019 🤦🏽‍♂️

Anything MS say at this point going forward has to be taken with a pinch of salt, check out the e3 demo for halo infinite and compare it to the abysmal showing of yesterday.

As for the bolded apart equaling or surpassing ND, I highly doubt this, let's actually see gameplay from Hellblade 2 before we can even hold them in the same sentence.

That's because Ninja Theory were literally only acquired about a year or two ago xD. I'd argue Hellblade has fantastic character visuals and background/environmental visuals, too. One thing worth keeping in mind is the size of the team on that game (and their budget) was VERY small, only about $10 million or so for the budget IIRC which is comparable to Shenmue III's budget for example.

So in that context, they had a team of I think 12 people on the project, with that small a budget, and produced something that looked THAT good, speaks a lot to their level of talent. That's why I say if you gave them a bigger AAA-level budget and more team members on that type of game, they could easily rival Naughty Dog especially, again, considering Naughty Dog have been bleeding talent if the reporting from guys like Schreir is true.

I do think in terms of gameplay they would also surpass Naughty Dog if given those accommodations because, just my personal opinion, Naughty Dog doesn't really have the "best" gameplay or game mechanics. In fact, they never have. Their games have by and large still been very fun and good, but they've never excelled in any given field of gameplay that a competitor wasn't doing better IMHO. Naughty Dog's field of expertise especially these days has been more in terms of character animation, environmental detail and story writing (which depending on who you ask their latest game completely dropped the ball on).

As for lack of gameplay for Hellblade 2, well it's barely been six months since the announcement. UC4 got announced in 2014, it took well over a year before we got actual gameplay on that one, wasn't a problem then. Nothing about Hellblade 2's time table so far is questionable in terms of getting a playable state going.
 
That's because Ninja Theory were literally only acquired about a year or two ago xD. I'd argue Hellblade has fantastic character visuals and background/environmental visuals, too. One thing worth keeping in mind is the size of the team on that game (and their budget) was VERY small, only about $10 million or so for the budget IIRC which is comparable to Shenmue III's budget for example.

So in that context, they had a team of I think 12 people on the project, with that small a budget, and produced something that looked THAT good, speaks a lot to their level of talent. That's why I say if you gave them a bigger AAA-level budget and more team members on that type of game, they could easily rival Naughty Dog especially, again, considering Naughty Dog have been bleeding talent if the reporting from guys like Schreir is true.

I do think in terms of gameplay they would also surpass Naughty Dog if given those accommodations because, just my personal opinion, Naughty Dog doesn't really have the "best" gameplay or game mechanics. In fact, they never have. Their games have by and large still been very fun and good, but they've never excelled in any given field of gameplay that a competitor wasn't doing better IMHO. Naughty Dog's field of expertise especially these days has been more in terms of character animation, environmental detail and story writing (which depending on who you ask their latest game completely dropped the ball on).

As for lack of gameplay for Hellblade 2, well it's barely been six months since the announcement. UC4 got announced in 2014, it took well over a year before we got actual gameplay on that one, wasn't a problem then. Nothing about Hellblade 2's time table so far is questionable in terms of getting a playable state going.
This. And you know why I'm not trippin on HellBlade 2? Because they didn't go talkin this shit up and then release some months old build of gameplay. Like what is Microsoft thinking?

At least say that's it's an older build of the game. It's like ordering the steak after you see a picture from the menu...lookin all hot n juicy n shit...then the waitress comes back with your "food" and dumps the damn thing on your table with half the poor thing bleeding out the side and the mashed potatoes cold as ice. Then she's got the nerve to say "Bon appetit"

I will Van Damme spinning scissor kick you in the forehead if you don't put that steak back on the grill.
 
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Sony and Microsoft conference we're both trash in my opinion. Neither one showed anything

Honestly I'm going to rewatch Sonys show this evening. When I first saw it I was disappointed, not knowing what true disappointment was until MS show. Maybe rewatching it will make me want to buy at least one of the so-called next gen systems, but I doubt it. Maybe I'll go back to PC gaming. Then again, Windows 10... uargh.
 
OP framed the thread as being disappointed in the XBOX showcase, but then he spoke more about his disappointments in the Sony Showcase....Hmmmmm :unsure:.....Also OP, Sony showed lots of gameplay running on PS5, which clearly contradicts your take on that....Pretty much all the games shown was gameplay. Kena, Returnal, Pragmata, Destruction All Stars, Sackboy, Astro, GT7, Spiderman, Ratchet, Stray...and many others...like Little Devil Inside, Demon Souls Remake, deathloop etc...Sony's show was way ahead of this one in ushering us into the next generation, which makes me curious if you actually watched the Sony showcase to begin with, since you didn't know they showed gameplay? Or did the graphics on the gameplay just look that good.?

Yet, I think your take on XBOX here is a common one, not something out of leftfield or something unique to you, many of us are saying the same thing. It's what we've been seeing coming out of XBOX for a long time now actually...The only way Phil starts getting respect from gamers and not salesmen is if he starts delivering through his MS studios team...Start getting those high meta, popular games which millions upon millions love.
 
OP framed the thread as being disappointed in the XBOX showcase, but then he spoke more about his disappointments in the Sony Showcase....Hmmmmm :unsure:.....Also OP, Sony showed lots of gameplay running on PS5, which clearly contradicts your take on that....Pretty much all the games shown was gameplay. Kena, Returnal, Pragmata, Destruction All Stars, Sackboy, Astro, GT7, Spiderman, Ratchet, Stray...and many others...like Little Devil Inside, Demon Souls Remake, deathloop etc...Sony's show was way ahead of this one in ushering us into the next generation, which makes me curious if you actually watched the Sony showcase to begin with, since you didn't know they showed gameplay? Or did the graphics on the gameplay just look that good.?

Yet, I think your take on XBOX here is a common one, not something out of leftfield or something unique to you, many of us are saying the same thing. It's what we've been seeing coming out of XBOX for a long time now actually...The only way Phil starts getting respect from gamers and not salesmen is if he starts delivering through his MS studios team...Start getting those high meta, popular games which millions upon millions love.
I was disappointed in both, but Sony didn't hype up expectations. What's so hard to understand about this? Sony showed Ratchet and clank gameplay and what...Kena? Don't even start to tell me Spiderman and Horizon were gameplay. Because it wasn't
 
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Regardless of which camp you sit in, you can't honestly watch that showcase and tell me you're ready to drop $500+ games on XSX. How can Halo Infinite, their flagship title, the franchise that made Xbox, look and play worse than games from 2013? Regardless of the developer, it's not a good look at all.

If God of War, or Uncharted looked like that - can you imagine the scenes across the gaming community? It's just not acceptable.

Microsoft just simply doesn't understand the gaming market, they've been in it for 20 years, but they just don't get what people want.
 
Regardless of which camp you sit in, you can't honestly watch that showcase and tell me you're ready to drop $500+ games on XSX. How can Halo Infinite, their flagship title, the franchise that made Xbox, look and play worse than games from 2013? Regardless of the developer, it's not a good look at all.

If God of War, or Uncharted looked like that - can you imagine the scenes across the gaming community? It's just not acceptable.

Microsoft just simply doesn't understand the gaming market, they've been in it for 20 years, but they just don't get what people want.
You're right. I'm starting to doubt next gen altogether. At least for a day one purchase. I think Microsoft get a lot right. In the games department I think they are still trying to find their way. That, on it's own, is okay. I do appreciate them building up their studios and offering great value in their services. This was a bad call though. There's no other way to slice it.
 
I see the new defense mechanism for Xbox fans. "Well, in retrospect, Sony's showing was trash, too."

Get over it, MS overhyped yet another conference/show, and you bought into it, yet again, hook, line, and sinker.

And don't forget, everything Sony showed was running on a PS5, even if it was just in-game cutscenes. The PS5 was rendering it. Not the case for MS. And with it being just a few months from release, that is troubling. Seems to me that the rumors of MS being behind are true. Just look at how last gen Halo looked. Yikes.
 
As gamer in my late 30's I've been looking forward to this next generation of gaming consoles and not paying attention to the fanboys on either side (as I've purchased every gaming console since the NES). I was surprised how overwhelmingly unimpressed I was with the Xbox Game Showcase. I'd probably feel different if Microsoft hasn't been pushing that the biggest change this generation is graphic fidelity, and then showed a bunch of games that looked like they were running on a Xbox360. Maybe it's because I just finished TLOU2 and now playing God of War (as I've been neglecting my PS4 this generation and decided to finish my backlog of games). There was not a single game that looked like next gen in the Xbox Series X Showcase.

Also "Tell Me Why" was one of the cringyest game trailer I've ever seen. The stiff character models would look right at home on Gamecube.

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I see the new defense mechanism for Xbox fans. "Well, in retrospect, Sony's showing was trash, too."

Get over it, MS overhyped yet another conference/show, and you bought into it, yet again, hook, line, and sinker.

And don't forget, everything Sony showed was running on a PS5, even if it was just in-game cutscenes. The PS5 was rendering it. Not the case for MS. And with it being just a few months from release, that is troubling. Seems to me that the rumors of MS being behind are true. Just look at how last gen Halo looked. Yikes.
I never said Sony's show was trash. I said it wasn't great. Meaning, it did not meet my expectations. My expectations is that I see some gameplay of something that feels next gen. Sony did not deliver that to me. I got some pretty trailers, some 3rd party stuff, but nothing that screams "Next Gen has arrived". It's the same thing with Microsoft.

For the last fuckin time, I'm not a "Microsoft fan" and this is not a defense mechanism. It's my opinion about what mainly what I saw in yesterday's conference and my apprehension about next gen..period.
 
Surprise surprise. Now that the Xbox showcase wasn't what it was hyped up to be, the new line of attack is to say that the Sony showcase was exactly the same. Spoiler alert: It was not. Everything shown at the Sony event was running on a ps5, unlike the xbox event where most of it was either running on PC, or a straight up CGI trailer, not even in engine. On top of that even the cinematic style trailers that were shown during ps5 event, were much longer and given the pedigree of Sony's studios we know we can expect similar visuals in actual gameplay viewpoints. Xbox has no such good will and doesn't deserve it from us at this point. Additionally Sony showed games that would release within the first year window, with maybe one or two that might stretch to 2022. It was clear in Xbox's showcase that many of the games are 2-4 years away at a minimum. Everwild they don't even no what the gameplay will be yet. State of Decay 3 is in early pre production. Hellblade 2, very early in development. Avowed, probably early pre production. Fable, who knows if they've even really started, plus it might be an MMO? Forza, looks like it's a few years away.

Anyone seriously comparing the two events and coming with the conclusion that they were similar is clearly just trying to downplay Xbox's misfire of an event. I didn't even mention Halo because there was no need to. The rest of the event was proof enough.
 
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Can we get a fact checker in here, because i know this is not true.

I think all Sony first party games did have gameplay bits in the trailers, even Horizon Forbidden West, is suspected that the underwater scenes and the riding scenes were actual gameplay.

But not all games in the showcase had gameplay.
 
Surprise surprise. Now that the Xbox showcase wasn't what it was hyped up to be, the new line of attack is to say that the Sony showcase was exactly the same. Spoiler alert: It was not. Everything shown at the Sony event was running on a ps5, unlike the xbox event where most of it was either running on PC, or a straight up CGI trailer, not even in engine. On top of that even the cinematic style trailers that were shown during ps5 event, were much longer and given the pedigree of Sony's studios we know we can expect similar visuals in actual gameplay viewpoints. Xbox has no such good will and doesn't deserve it from us at this point. Additionally Sony showed games that would release within the first year window, with maybe one or two that might stretch to 2022. It was clear in Xbox's showcase that many of the games are 2-4 years away at a minimum. Everwild they don't even no what the gameplay will be yet. State of Decay 3 is in early pre production. Hellblade 2, very early in development. Avowed, probably early pre production. Fable, who knows if they've even really started, plus it might be an MMO? Forza, looks like it's a few years away.

Anyone seriously comparing the two events and coming with the conclusion that they were similar is clearly just trying to downplay Xbox's misfire of an event. I didn't even mention Halo because there was no need to. The rest of the event was proof enough.
Are you a Sony exec? Geesh!
 
I think all Sony first party games did have gameplay bits in the trailers, even Horizon Forbidden West, is suspected that the underwater scenes and the riding scenes were actual gameplay.

But not all games in the showcase had gameplay.
That's not gameplay. It may have used in-engine assets for the scene but stop trying to imply it was gameplay. You fans always give Sony the benefit of the doubt as if they can't do no wrong. Face it there show wasn't that great either.
 
Are you a Sony exec? Geesh!

Can you show me anything from any of the Microsoft games I listed? Even a screenshot of gameplay will do. I have enough money to own both consoles, but I'm not a fool. CGI trailers just don't cut it for me and it shouldn't do it for you either. Nothing wrong with holding company's accountable.
 
Can you show me anything from any of the Microsoft games I listed? Even a screenshot of gameplay will do. I have enough money to own both consoles, but I'm not a fool. CGI trailers just don't cut it for me and it shouldn't do it for you either. Nothing wrong with holding company's accountable.
Why is there so much doom and gloom for the Xbox after their showing but none for Sony after their event? R&C:Rift Apart was the only noteworthy in depth gameplay reveal. Spiderman MM, Horizon West, Demon Soul, and few others were trailers, yet Sony fans eat it up like it's the greatest thing ever. Microsoft has a similar showing yesterday and its suppose to the worst? Immature rationale on people part when it comes to this topic
 
That's not gameplay. It may have used in-engine assets for the scene but stop trying to imply it was gameplay. You fans always give Sony the benefit of the doubt as if they can't do no wrong. Face it there show wasn't that great either.

LOL, man! Whatever floats your boat. Their (not there) show was good enough for people to talk good things about it and be optimistic about the PS5, unlike the Xbox's TWO shows. The general opinions of Sony's show is that they did a great job! So, while you are entitled to your own opinion, just look at what the majority of the people think about them.
 
Why is there so much doom and gloom for the Xbox after their showing but none for Sony after their event? R&C:Rift Apart was the only noteworthy in depth gameplay reveal. Spiderman MM, Horizon West, Demon Soul, and few others were trailers, yet Sony fans eat it up like it's the greatest thing ever. Microsoft has a similar showing yesterday and its suppose to the worst? Immature rationale on people part when it comes to this topic

The expectations are different. Microsoft has constantly touted a power advantage that we will all see. They also hyped up this event to no end. CGI trailers would be fine if they didn't hype it up.
 
LOL, man! Whatever floats your boat. Their (not there) show was good enough for people to talk good things about it and be optimistic about the PS5, unlike the Xbox's TWO shows. The general opinions of Sony's show is that they did a great job! So, while you are entitled to your own opinion, just look at what the majority of the people think about them.
It's called fanboys. I'm partial which is the way to be, especially over plastic and electrical wires. Be honest with Sony the glass is always half full, Microsoft that glass is half empty. That's how fanboys think and don't really like having a decent talk with people like that because youd never get rational conversation out of a fanboy. I hope the PS5 is everything for you in life. 🤣🤣🤣
 
The expectations are different. Microsoft has constantly touted a power advantage that we will all see. They also hyped up this event to no end. CGI trailers would be fine if they didn't hype it up.
Both systems aren't even out yet. Why do you care if you have no mutual interest in both? It's clear where you pledge your alliance and that's fine, but when you spread your opinion around like the plague you're showing (for me personally) that Microsoft are doing something right that its threatening your precious PS.
 
Quite a large number of the games MS presented last night have just started development (Avowed, State of Decay, Fable, Everwild, etc.). We will not see those games on store shelves until 2022 or later. Sony on the other hand has only showcased first party games that will be available this year or next year.
So that begs the question where the hell are the games. Not like xbox studios have been pumping titles out the last few years.

Even halo looks super rushed and not ready for launch. Even rumours the SP won't be there day 1. What a Dumpster fire.
 
Surprise surprise. Now that the Xbox showcase wasn't what it was hyped up to be, the new line of attack is to say that the Sony showcase was exactly the same. Spoiler alert: It was not. Everything shown at the Sony event was running on a ps5, unlike the xbox event where most of it was either running on PC, or a straight up CGI trailer, not even in engine. On top of that even the cinematic style trailers that were shown during ps5 event, were much longer and given the pedigree of Sony's studios we know we can expect similar visuals in actual gameplay viewpoints. Xbox has no such good will and doesn't deserve it from us at this point. Additionally Sony showed games that would release within the first year window, with maybe one or two that might stretch to 2022. It was clear in Xbox's showcase that many of the games are 2-4 years away at a minimum. Everwild they don't even no what the gameplay will be yet. State of Decay 3 is in early pre production. Hellblade 2, very early in development. Avowed, probably early pre production. Fable, who knows if they've even really started, plus it might be an MMO? Forza, looks like it's a few years away.

Anyone seriously comparing the two events and coming with the conclusion that they were similar is clearly just trying to downplay Xbox's misfire of an event. I didn't even mention Halo because there was no need to. The rest of the event was proof enough.

Couldn't have said it better when it comes to the obvious new talking point. It's like, really, this is what y'all gonna do now? This isn't a matter of talking points. They don't get tired of damage controlling for MS, it's insane. Let MS burn to a crisp in the fire so that they may rise anew and deliver on what people actually want. But no.... it's always damage control to make the hard landing feel survivable. It's just an illusion but ohh well.
 
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Both systems aren't even out yet. Why do you care if you have no mutual interest in both? It's clear where you pledge your alliance and that's fine, but when you spread your opinion around like the plague you're showing (for me personally) that Microsoft are doing something right that its threatening your precious PS.

Well, if you're ok with what Microsoft is delivering and you don't care to hold them accountable, there's nothing really to discuss. The majority of people as seen across multiple sites and polls did not feel the Xbox showcase matched the hype that Phil Spencer and Aaron Greenberg drummed up. That has nothing to do with me personally. I'm a gamer period, so as soon as Microsoft releases games that match the quality of Sony I will gladly buy an Xbox and I will give them praise when its deserved, but that was not displayed yesterday and you need to come to terms with that.
 
Well, if you're ok with what Microsoft is delivering and you don't care to hold them accountable, there's nothing really to discuss. The majority of people as seen across multiple sites and polls did not feel the Xbox showcase matched the hype that Phil Spencer and Aaron Greenberg drummed up. That has nothing to do with me personally. I'm a gamer period, so as soon as Microsoft releases games that match the quality of Sony I will gladly buy an Xbox and I will give them praise when its deserved, but that was not displayed yesterday and you need to come to terms with that.
I know that it was below expectations, that's a given. But it's still early and I do believe MS and Sony are playing tit for tat right now and neither company wants to put all their cards on the table at once. Understandably.

Like Sony has levels to their insane amount of experience, gaming heritage, and portfolio. We talk about the games for launch or games the will eventually come that will be awesome. But we've kinda all forgot that Sony have VR system in the pipeline that I'm more excited about. It's like Sony drops jewels out of their back pocket every so often like its loose change but it's just the being a great gaming company.

That's something Microsoft is trying to achieve but they're in a rebuilding mode so I'm not going to cast doom and gloom yet. As long as the effort is there then it bodes well for gaming overall. I fine with that.
 
Why is there so much doom and gloom for the Xbox after their showing but none for Sony after their event? R&C:Rift Apart was the only noteworthy in depth gameplay reveal. Spiderman MM, Horizon West, Demon Soul, and few others were trailers, yet Sony fans eat it up like it's the greatest thing ever. Microsoft has a similar showing yesterday and its suppose to the worst? Immature rationale on people part when it comes to this topic
It definitely has something to do with the fact that Sony delivers. When we see a teaser for God of War or The Last of Us, or Ghost of Tsushima — they end up fulfilling their promises and delivering great experiences.

With Xbox there is always going to be skepticism because of the likes of Star Wars Kinect and Crackdown and Sea of Thieves and Scalebound and Battletoads and on and on and on...

Lots of promises, pretty trailers — the only games that Microsoft has developed some rhythm with are Halo, Gears, and Forza.

Despite all the doom and gloom, I was encouraged by the hint of what's to come with Fable and Avowed. If Microsoft can give these games the time and the talent they need, we might be able to break the cycle. I just hope that GamePass doesn't create Halo Infinite situations where you get single player at launch, graphical upgrades over time and multiplayer months later. (Something similar happened with Street Fighter 5 and it completely pushed me away from one of my favorite franchises).
 
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So that begs the question where the hell are the games. Not like xbox studios have been pumping titles out the last few years.

Even halo looks super rushed and not ready for launch. Even rumours the SP won't be there day 1. What a Dumpster fire.

One explanation is that all of MS' recent studio purchases have to start from scratch. They can't start working on new games from day 0, they'll have come up with multiple concepts for new game worlds, game designs, etc. Those ideas will have to be prototyped and the best one of the lot is going to get the green light and will go into production. This pre-production phase for a new game is done by a small team at the same time a full team is working on another game that's is in full production. But a completely new studio has nothing going on. In fact, there's the risk that many expensive employees are just sitting on their hands because there's nothing to work on yet.

Sony's studios on the other hands are always in full-prodction. A number of those studios have multiple teams like Naughty Dog and Insomniac. Guerilla Games wants to expand to 400 people so they can have a new game out every 3 years.
 
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I know that it was below expectations, that's a given. But it's still early and I do believe MS and Sony are playing tit for tat right now and neither company wants to put all their cards on the table at once. Understandably.

Like Sony has levels to their insane amount of experience, gaming heritage, and portfolio. We talk about the games for launch or games the will eventually come that will be awesome. But we've kinda all forgot that Sony have VR system in the pipeline that I'm more excited about. It's like Sony drops jewels out of their back pocket every so often like its loose change but it's just the being a great gaming company.

That's something Microsoft is trying to achieve but they're in a rebuilding mode so I'm not going to cast doom and gloom yet. As long as the effort is there then it bodes well for gaming overall. I fine with that.

This is a reasonable response. I just want Microsoft execs to be a bit more transparent when it comes to setting expectations. If you know your games aren't going to be ready for a few years, it's fine to say that you have the most powerful console, but don't say that you're going to show that difference in an event and then not deliver. I absolutely am looking forward to Avowed and Fable at the very least and I do think there will be great games on the Xbox that I'm looking forward to playing. I think going forward if Microsoft could just be straightforward about what they will be showing it will help with most fans. You will always get hardcore fanboys that will attack them no matter what, but I think most people are generally just fans of good games, period.
 
It definitely has something to do with the fact that Sony delivers. When we see a teaser for God of War or The Last of Us, or Ghost of Tsushima — they end up fulfilling their promises and delivering great experiences.

With Xbox there is always going to be skepticism because of the likes of Star Wars Kinect and Crackdown and Sea of Thieves and Scalebound and Battletoads and on and on and on...

Lots of promises, pretty trailers — the only games that Microsoft has developed some rhythm with are Halo, Gears, and Forza.

Despite all the doom and gloom, I was encouraged by the hint of what's to come with Fable and Avowed. If Microsoft can give these games the time and the talent they need, we might be able to break the cycle. just hope that GamePass doesn't create Halo Infinite situations where you get single player at launch, graphical upgrades over time and multiplayer months later. (Something similar happened with Street Fighter 5 and it completely pushed me away from one of my favorite franchises).
I can completely see why from your perspective. I just see so many people cash in on dumping negativity in threads because they want to see competition fail. But you are one of the reasons why forums stay relevant. Thanks for the explanation?
 
That's because Ninja Theory were literally only acquired about a year or two ago xD. I'd argue Hellblade has fantastic character visuals and background/environmental visuals, too. One thing worth keeping in mind is the size of the team on that game (and their budget) was VERY small, only about $10 million or so for the budget IIRC which is comparable to Shenmue III's budget for example.

So in that context, they had a team of I think 12 people on the project, with that small a budget, and produced something that looked THAT good, speaks a lot to their level of talent. That's why I say if you gave them a bigger AAA-level budget and more team members on that type of game, they could easily rival Naughty Dog especially, again, considering Naughty Dog have been bleeding talent if the reporting from guys like Schreir is true.

I do think in terms of gameplay they would also surpass Naughty Dog if given those accommodations because, just my personal opinion, Naughty Dog doesn't really have the "best" gameplay or game mechanics. In fact, they never have. Their games have by and large still been very fun and good, but they've never excelled in any given field of gameplay that a competitor wasn't doing better IMHO. Naughty Dog's field of expertise especially these days has been more in terms of character animation, environmental detail and story writing (which depending on who you ask their latest game completely dropped the ball on).

As for lack of gameplay for Hellblade 2, well it's barely been six months since the announcement. UC4 got announced in 2014, it took well over a year before we got actual gameplay on that one, wasn't a problem then. Nothing about Hellblade 2's time table so far is questionable in terms of getting a playable state going.
Actually we started seeing UC4 gameplay in PSX 2014. That was in December.
 
This is a reasonable response. I just want Microsoft execs to be a bit more transparent when it comes to setting expectations. If you know your games aren't going to be ready for a few years, it's fine to say that you have the most powerful console, but don't say that you're going to show that difference in an event and then not deliver. I absolutely am looking forward to Avowed and Fable at the very least and I do think there will be great games on the Xbox that I'm looking forward to playing. I think going forward if Microsoft could just be straightforward about what they will be showing it will help with most fans. You will always get hardcore fanboys that will attack them no matter what, but I think most people are generally just fans of good games, period.
Agreed. Yet they first event that fell flat. I honestly don't they had any room for excuses with the July event, none! I did not like the Halo Infinite footage. I was under the impression tha 343 studios had a new graphics engine but that was lack luster. Just swing and misses all over the place.

So much to talk about yet its almost not worth the effort. We'll just have to keep waiting and see what both companies do next. I will get both but these reveals will determine which I get first. 😁
 
One explanation is that all of MS' recent studio purchases have to start from scratch. They can't start working on new games from day 0, they'll have come up with multiple concepts for new game worlds, game designs, etc. Those ideas will have to be prototyped and the best one of the lot is going to get the green light and will go into production. This pre-production phase for a new game is done by a small team at the same time a full team is working on another game that's is in full production. But a completely new studio has nothing going on. In fact, there's the risk that many expensive employees are just sitting on their hands because there's nothing to work on yet.

Sony's studios on the other hands are always in full-prodction. A number of those studios have multiple teams like Naughty Dog and Insomniac. Guerilla Games wants to expand to 400 people so they can have a new game out every 3 years.
And with MS switch to Gamepass and Phil publicly championing the GAAS future I can't ever see them getting to Sony's level. Halo infinite 500M budget, 5 years of dev and it looks like last gen trash.

We've got this entire gen listening to MS excuses when in reality they stopped their top class output around 2010. 10 years of this shit and now you're telling me it could be another 4 or 5. Get the fuck out of here there ain't going to be another gen of Xbox consoles after this one.
 
I can completely see why from your perspective. I just see so many people cash in on dumping negativity in threads because they want to see competition fail. But you are one of the reasons why forums stay relevant. Thanks for the explanation?
I don't know that people want them to fail necessarily. For me, I just want to Wizard of Oz to be more than a marketing man behind a curtain.

The only exclusives I enjoyed on my Xbox One last gen were Killer Instinct, Forza Horizon, and Gears 5 - but I was promised every year by Phil Spencer "next year was going to be the best ever, more exclusives, better games". None of these things happened and it compromised the value I got with the platform I invested in.

I want Microsoft to be a Sony or a Nintendo so that when a trailer is released I'll know what sort of quality I can expect when the game launches.
 
The more I think about the whole sordid affair the more it annoys me. This was their chance. There were still a host of original xbox/360 fans, me included, who were waiting to jump back onboard, itching to in some cases. This was their chance to win them back and maybe persuade some more outside of that group to at least have a serious look at what they're doing. But this was not it. Yeah, i'm not judging all the games, mostly 'cause there wasn't much to judge. Its all years away. Fable and Avowed and whatnot may well be stunning, they may well be even better than what Sony is offering, but there's no good way to know. Id have rather they just held their hands up and said look guys it aint ready, even use the current situation as somewhat of an (admittedly valid) excuse if needs be and delay this by a year. That would never have happened of course 'cause Sony arent doing that and it would look bad .... but this is not good either. Halo out in a rough state (though probably better than that build at launch) with the real next gen version patched in months later ... what? Forza of all things in early development and at best a late 2021 title and maybe even later than that. Everything else years away.

I understand why due to when the studios were purchased and all this, but it just seems like it could have been managed better and planned for better. Perhaps I'm overreacting, but I was willing them to do it, waiting to be wowed, and I like to think I was reasonable enough with my expectations. I wouldn't have expected more than this in terms of number of reveals, even if I was praying for that Perfect dark announcement, but this was just not it. Oh, and "gamepass, gamepass, gamepass".
 
I don't know that people want them to fail necessarily. For me, I just want to Wizard of Oz to be more than a marketing man behind a curtain.

The only exclusives I enjoyed on my Xbox One last gen were Killer Instinct, Forza Horizon, and Gears 5 - but I was promised every year by Phil Spencer "next year was going to be the best ever, more exclusives, better games". None of these things happened and it compromised the value I got with the platform I invested in.

I want Microsoft to be a Sony or a Nintendo so that when a trailer is released I'll know what sort of quality I can expect when the game launches.
Correct. I think in that same mindshare as you. The last game besides the Forza and Gears that gave me hope MS were trying State if Decay oddly enough. Sea of Thieves eventually got there. But I wasn't expecting them to tear up the charts yet they're great and satisfying experiences that i want to see consistently from them.
 
Sony has proven time and time again their 1st party games usually deliver so I don't NEED to see a ton of gameplay before release, that's trust based on results.

Microsoft does not get afforded the same simply because they over hype, under deliver, and haven't had a major AAA success in quite some time and seem like they can't get their shit together. They have a lot more to prove due to their history than Sony does.
 
Why is there so much doom and gloom for the Xbox after their showing but none for Sony after their event? R&C:Rift Apart was the only noteworthy in depth gameplay reveal. Spiderman MM, Horizon West, Demon Soul, and few others were trailers, yet Sony fans eat it up like it's the greatest thing ever. Microsoft has a similar showing yesterday and its suppose to the worst? Immature rationale on people part when it comes to this topic

I'll spell this out real simple as someone who has had every Xbox ever made and is likely now skipping Series X unless something REALLY good comes out for it. But that's gotta be years away unless a lot of serious Sony/Nintendo-esque quality games are in deep development but are unannounced.

Sony has an incredible track record going back .. Twenty. Freaking. Years. The PS4 was a monster console for world class exclusives. Everything Sony showed was running on a PS5 and captured via PS5. Stated in clear black and white at the beginning of the show. We saw some direct Gameplay feeds including Ratchet, which looked like a CG movie in action. Spiderman, Horizon ... these are known entities with great reviews and reputations. They can show us some graphics and say it's coming soon and we can trust that these games are going to be good. Then you combine a bunch of classics like Horizon, GT, Spiderman with new stuff that IMO looked like it had potential. Project Athia could be cool. I know I want Stray when it's released. Returnal could be good. I probably want Kena this year (looked like a CG movie! and it showed some gameplay!). Demon's souls remake will be great I'm sure. And there was a bunch of other new stuff that may or may not be good, but we already have a solid list of stuff for a reveal event. Console launches are typically pretty dry and stay that way for about a year. For a new launch this was great, and we haven't seen anything from ND. Or Santa Monica. I have no doubt that Sony is going to keep doing what it's been good at for two decades. Producing world class games and exclusives.

The Xbox show. Now, MS has a bad track record for this past generation. Full of fumbles, "no games" (ironic for reasons which I'm sure I don't need to explain to most here), and years of promise after promise about games about to hit. "The best lineup in Xbox history," which no one cared about at all. Seriously read that statement then go look at what they had at E3 2015. Then tell me you think Phil Spencer gets it. So lets look at what MS did yesterday. Halo was obviously a disaster. Looked old, felt old, and the last Halo games from the same company were huge let downs. Why should we expect some kind of huge turnaround? Money and time do not fix problems in software. You need the right people. You need talent, and that talent has to have drive that cannot be taught, and cannot be "bought." There is a MASSIVE difference between various software engineers (speaking as one), and a company's staff is the most important asset it has. If they are good. It could also be a liability. Anyway. There is zero reason to trust the output of 343i when it comes to Halo. After their recent problems all of a sudden they are going to produce the biggest Halo game they've ever made and it's going to be awesome? When they screwed up remasters? It's not a talented company. Period. Ok moving on, Forza was clearly nowhere, and the rest of the games looked pretty much indie quality and were from unproven studios. Seriously. Go compare "The Gunk" to "Stray". Which one looks more creative, more well crafted and which one has WAY better visuals? Which one looks like it's going to have more "heart"? So turns out the Xbox games were basically running on PCs. Fable was a little CG trailer. Basically no real progress there it seems. Everwild is literally not a game yet. Just a corporate check box to have a cel shaded "pure creativity" game. Hellblade 2 is clearly hardly started (Hey, we are going to scout these locations for inspiration!). They literally showed us video of planet Earth as a Hellblade teaser. And the first game was entirely mediocre with some nice main character graphics. Gameplay and battle was repetitive and trite. Whispers and voices in my surround sound to raise awareness for mental illness? Again, ok. Psychonauts 2. Might be good. But the rest of that list of games was uninspired, no progress, and a lot of unproven stuff. Even a game like "The Medium" really felt like a PC game from 10 years ago to me in terms of the overall feel. Stiff characters, bare environments. The Xbox games couldn't even hold up to PS4 software. Some much for the poweerrrrrrrrrr of Series X. Seems like it's going to work out as well for them as the One X, which was a total flop and is now discontinued. Side note: The Xbox One X was hyped for 1.5 years. It lived on the shelf for 2.5 years. Do you think that was the plan all along?

But you know what else. You can play all of this Xbox stuff on a PC anyway. No actual exclusives. None.

So to sum up. Sony track record. Probably best in the world right now. Microsoft? Probably the worst. Nintendo and Sony producing more exclusive and highly rated games than MS. Games shown at PS5 event had gameplay, all on the actual system. Highly trusted studios in some cases. New stuff looked high quality with promise. Xbox had some gameplay, not running on Xbox. Studios with track records of screwing up their major franchise. Major reveal was a huge embarrassment at all levels. New stuff had literally nothing to show in some cases, others looked indie levels of production quality. Seriously. Go look again at "Returnal". Compare that to ANY game in the Xbox showcase. There were some gameplay segments shown and that was all real time. Nothing in the Xbox show was close to that level of production. It also looked creative with an original idea. Maybe the game isn't good in the end, but again this is a launch period.

And we also know Sony held back games and announcements.

The events were not even in the same stratosphere.
 
Spiderman MM, Horizon West, Demons Soul, etc showed GAMEPLAY right?
Insomniac making a new Spider-man isn't a hard sell.
Guerrilla making a sequel to Horizon isn't a hard sell.
Bluepoint making a remake isn't a hard sell.

343i making another Halo is a hard sell.
A studio that has only worked on Forza horizon trying to revive a long dead RPG franchise is a hard sell.
Skyrim rip-off by a studio that just the other day was crowdfunding their games is a hard sell.

With that said Sony showed way more gameplay anyway. Sony doesn't have anything to prove, the PS5 isn't even out and they already released a bunch of exclusive hits.
 
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Xbox lost not because Sony's conference was 10/10 but because Sony has a proven track record with amazing first party titles.
2 decades later Xbox is still churning out Halos.
 
5/10 both shows.

Still undecided which to get first.

Microsoft have had 2 shows. Sony has had 1. I'm not here to fanboy warzzzz but let's at least keep some hope alive that one of them will show something.

Although now would be the perfect time for Nintendo to drop a monster console :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
Insomniac making a new Spider-man isn't a hard sell.
Guerrilla making a sequel to Horizon isn't a hard sell.
Bluepoint making a remake isn't a hard sell.

343i making another Halo is a hard sell.
A studio that has only worked on Forza horizon trying to revive a long dead RPG franchise is a hard sell.
Skyrim rip-off by a studio that just the other day was crowdfunding their games is a hard sell.

With that said Sony showed way more gameplay anyway. Sony doesn't have anything to prove, the PS5 isn't even out and they already released a bunch of exclusive hits.
I agree with everything you said, the question still remains the same. If Sony has all these things going well for the system, I have to question why so many fans are in a these Xbox threads to begin with?
 
I agree with everything you said, the question still remains the same. If Sony has all these things going well for the system, I have to question why so many fans are in a these Xbox threads to begin with?
Because It's fun, it's like watching instant karma videos. They talked shit and now they have to hear it.
 
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Can you show me anything from any of the Microsoft games I listed? Even a screenshot of gameplay will do. I have enough money to own both consoles, but I'm not a fool. CGI trailers just don't cut it for me and it shouldn't do it for you either. Nothing wrong with holding company's accountable.
I hold them all accountable as well. But there is a such thing as fair criticism and criticism with motives for personal satisfaction.

But I do believe you have good intentions when you speak this topic at hand, that I do admit.
 
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