Looking at the article again, it looks like Tweaktown is wrong about the subscriber count. The 18 million figure (up from 15 million in late 2020) was announced Jan 2021, so they've actually gone from 18 million to 25 million in calendar year 2021.
Xbox Game Pass generated $2.9b revenue in 2021
- Thread starter Banjo64
- Start date
Looking at the article again, it looks like Tweaktown is wrong about the subscriber count. The 18 million figure (up from 15 million in late 2020) was announced Jan 2021, so they've actually gone from 18 million to 25 million in calendar year 2021.
Kagey K
Banned
With it being less than 20% of revenue which means gamers are buying a ton of shit outside gamepass as well.
bender
What time is it?
https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2022/10/04/game-pass-october-2022-wave-1-announce/
More like scorn, plague tale 2, naraka, Valheim, grounded, dark tide, persona 5, high on life drops in December, atomic heart should be out this year as wlll. we have just got deathloop as well. Next year is even more impressive with stalker 2, forza motorsport, starfield, wo long, ark2 and many more. But kudos to you if you like paw patrol and missing on all of the games I have listed
Games going to gamepass are marked with gamepass above the thumbnails;
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None of those games have a dog wearing a police uniform.
Sw0pDiller
Banned
Revenue is not profit...
Kagey K
Banned
You would be hard pressed to spend the entire revenue on the games added. But this has been discussed per naseum on page 1-3
And it accounts for less than 20% of Xbox overall revenue.
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Kagey K
Banned
Averaging out managers and low level designers it could pay roughly 20,000 developers.
But it's not all assigned to them as they pay contracts and royalties on games added to gamepass.
But for context it is a lot.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
That REVENUE though!
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I am now levelling up at gaf....in the future I see that we will be demanding all break downs of every exclusive game to know it's exact profit....we don't care how much sales or revenue a game brings in...we want to know the exact profit. All these 70 dollar games etc, they must be raking the profits In, right?
It's not that the game may break even but drive other growth vertices, which then in turn grow other growth vertices...such as..
I see last of us remake (a game dragged for its cost) let's imagine it made a small loss sales wise vs development for naughty dog....bit it drove a lot of hardcore fans to buy a ps5 to play it...they then saw that user played fortnite and bought a shit load of skins and other shite off psn at profit for Sony, win!
Now let's look at gampass, say its making a small loss or is flat...just like amazon has operated for how many years.
But people are buying consoles, or gaming pcs with Windows licenses...and buying dlc...and buying skins and other on line shite for free to play games like fortnite...
...look at the bigger picture people, it's not difficult...but I guess people love to play stupid.
It's not that the game may break even but drive other growth vertices, which then in turn grow other growth vertices...such as..
I see last of us remake (a game dragged for its cost) let's imagine it made a small loss sales wise vs development for naughty dog....bit it drove a lot of hardcore fans to buy a ps5 to play it...they then saw that user played fortnite and bought a shit load of skins and other shite off psn at profit for Sony, win!
Now let's look at gampass, say its making a small loss or is flat...just like amazon has operated for how many years.
But people are buying consoles, or gaming pcs with Windows licenses...and buying dlc...and buying skins and other on line shite for free to play games like fortnite...
...look at the bigger picture people, it's not difficult...but I guess people love to play stupid.
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Schmick
Member
Yea my kids love the PAW Patrol games. I'm very please that these games services cater for everyone.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
What's funny is, all we have is people demanding to know the quantity of profit, but not the quality of the service and how many bangers are on there...which there are a good number of.
Which makes you right, we have lost our way..
bender
What time is it?
You could probably do some rough back of the napkin math to estimate the cost of the library if you are so inclined.
-465 titles available currently.
-EA Play has 83 titles.
-EA charges $4.99 a month (not to be confused with what Microsoft is paying EA to include it in Game Pass).
-A quick glance puts the first party titles at around 60 or so.
-That leaves you with ~320 titles that Microsoft has to negotiate to put on the service.
-Microsoft paid between $5-10 million for Guardians of the Galaxy on the service. That's was an underperforming but well received/big budget title.
-Microsoft paid $600,000.00 for Cooking Simulator.
You can use those last two bullet to extrapolate estimated costs by putting the ~320 into buckets. I'd guess there are more data points out there to help further estimate.
That's PAWsome!
-465 titles available currently.
-EA Play has 83 titles.
-EA charges $4.99 a month (not to be confused with what Microsoft is paying EA to include it in Game Pass).
-A quick glance puts the first party titles at around 60 or so.
-That leaves you with ~320 titles that Microsoft has to negotiate to put on the service.
-Microsoft paid between $5-10 million for Guardians of the Galaxy on the service. That's was an underperforming but well received/big budget title.
-Microsoft paid $600,000.00 for Cooking Simulator.
You can use those last two bullet to extrapolate estimated costs by putting the ~320 into buckets. I'd guess there are more data points out there to help further estimate.
That's PAWsome!
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Hitchyhero
Banned
I don't think any Xbox fans have confused the two here?????
As usual, any Xbox thread can't be good and the usual suspects come here as defenders of their faith. I find it odd that before all Sony owners were saying everyone is on $1 dealss and now that that would equal 2.9 billion people you've moved onto the next thing you can attack it with.
Let's say profit IS low... Out of 2.9 billion dollars, they have only made $1 mill dollars in profit. You've just got 2.8bill dollars worth of games. MS still made a bit of profit too. So what's the issue???
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Maybe because the difference between profits and revenue would indicate health or a massive price hike (or just less and less of the "bangers" they like and more MTX / dopamine engagement maximisation match ones like on mobile… to target the users who think games should be free / have devalued games) once they move from investment mode to profit mode.
Some people have lost their way sure, some people even believe that a model where people do not pay for games / value games cost less and less will keep producing the game variety and quality they grew accustomed to
.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
its like your acting like Microsoft still don't sell games
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
It depends on how these deals are accounted too: are the discounts tracked as costs after revenue is counted?
Kagey K
Banned
I posted a top 20 gamepass games tweet in another thread. I'll go look for it
Look at all those garbage games. Surely quantity over quality despite sone of these games being popular for years
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mxbison
Member
I was on $1 a month like 7 times and now have 3 years GP ultimate for $90.
Why are so many people spinning this into GP hate? Just means it's an even better deal....
SmurfMustard
Member
It's really telling how some posters always move the goal post. First they always want numbers and when they get them, they didn't want those numbers they wanted different numbers.
Kagey K
Banned
Bulletbrain
Member
Discounts are accounted at revenue line, not as a cost item in both IFRS and US GAAP.
Kagey K
Banned
You don't add revenue you never collected and expense it as advertising.
You will throw yourself up into a higher bracket and get taxed like you made it.
If i offer a customer a 20% discount I charge them 80.00 and report 80 as revenue.
I don't report 100 and expense 20.00 as I never received that 20.00
That's fucking stupid, especially if you are trying to downplay your share, like MS was.
Bulletbrain
Member
Yup this is true. Treating discounts as a cost goes against accounting principals. Whatever discounts are already deducted at the final revenue line.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
The people demanding profit/revenue figures don't appear to have or use the service in the first place. People who actually use Game pass spend far more time talking about which game will be next and which titles they are currently enjoying. If you're enjoying the service you haven't lost your way you're enjoying a service that provides lots of good games at a fair price.
I always enjoy the 'devalued games' commentary. How about we let consumers decide if Game pass is a good service or not. If people prefer to pay full price and not use a subscription service that is an option on all consoles. If Game pass is bad it will fold up and go away like OnLive did. If consumers are happy with it it will remain.Maybe because the difference between profits and revenue would indicate health or a massive price hike (or just less and less of the "bangers" they like and more MTX / dopamine engagement maximisation match ones like on mobile… to target the users who think games should be free / have devalued games) once they move from investment mode to profit mode.
Some people have lost their way sure, some people even believe that a model where people do not pay for games / value games cost less and less will keep producing the game variety and quality they grew accustomed to
Currently it appears it's making plenty of money so MS has every incentive to continue to bring quality software to the service. Maybe one day CoD and other Activision games will be on Game pass too. The value proposition would be enormous.
Kagey K
Banned
Chukhopops
Member
With the ABK purchase a lot of MS numbers are going to be leaked / published.
You're going to need the James Webb Telescope to detect the heat signature of the goalposts by the time the deal is over.
Kagey K
Banned
I think people's eyes are going to opened about how much money Xbox actually makes, and wonder why Sony pleads poor all day.
It's refreshing to see how surprised some people are
Surely we should care about profits when Microsoft moves to profit mode? Low profits in growth mode is a feature not a bug.Maybe because the difference between profits and revenue would indicate health or a massive price hike (or just less and less of the "bangers" they like and more MTX / dopamine engagement maximisation match ones like on mobile… to target the users who think games should be free / have devalued games) once they move from investment mode to profit mode.
Some people have lost their way sure, some people even believe that a model where people do not pay for games / value games cost less and less will keep producing the game variety and quality they grew accustomed to
Kagey K
Banned
Let me know when that happens, I'll move on. Until then why should I not reap the rewards as a customer?
I guess I should be happy with the competition slow bleeding me to death now.
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MacReady13
Member
But if it's so good, and such great value, why not keep paying the price to have this sub service continuously?
You should reap the rewards as a consumer. I never said otherwise.
DavidGzz
Gold Member
Not hate, but the OP proves you're in the vast minority not the majority like some would lead you to believe. Also, where did you get 3 years for $90?
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There's an active thread on the front page about Grounded, the latest Xbox first party release. Nobody's talking about revenue in that thread.
But I guess you've got to stick to a narrative.
Kagey K
Banned
Who's going to go into and contribute to a thread where tons of people who didn't play the game claim it sucks?
Hydroxy
Member
This is highly disappointing considering there are over 20 million Game Pass subscribers. 20 million people have access to the game, are paying for Game Pass specifically just to be able to play things like this, and Microsoft's biggest release in years drops and way less than half even care. This is evidence that Xbox's first party games, what is meant to be the biggest draw to Game Pass, aren't even a huge draw to their existing subscriber base. This is a worrying trend. Definitely the last Xbox.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
huh?
Schmick
Member
Stack up on Xbox Live Gold, buying them from 3rd party key sellers and then convert the Stacked Gold to Gamepass Ultimate. The link below is a little out of date now. I think the price of 3 month keys have gone up a little but its still cheaper than paying through MS Store.
https://www.techradar.com/news/i-sa...xbox-game-pass-ultimate-heres-how-you-can-too
Kagey K
Banned
My first thought too.
Dick Jones
Banned
You pay tax on your profit and not revenue. Revenue is the sales figure and the discount allowed is an expense.
Sales $180 in year [revenue]
Less expenses:
Discount allowed $179
Profit $1 [to be taxed provided no other sales or expenses]
ZehDon
Member
… say what?
ozz ex machina
Member
Seek help. Ideally professional.
Kagey K
Banned
Om not sure what you are on about?
Halo Infinite maybe? But that doesn't require gamepass.
9 out of the top 20 is more than respectable for gamepass, especially when they keep adding multiple games per week.
Hydroxy
Member
Copypasta lol
Kagey K
Banned
But if you report uncollected funds as revenue, you will push into a higher tax bracket without ever receiving those finds (so not revenue)
In the example you used they both made 1.00 but the business that reports 180 will pay more than the 1 that reports 1.00 even if they both made the same profit.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
Kagey K
Banned
Dick Jones
Banned
You pay tax on profit. You deduct discounts from the sales figure as an expense and you pay tax on any profits.
You could have sales of 6 billion and if you made a loss that year you don't pay tax. Revenue figures alone doesn't affect tax due, only the sales less expenses figure (profit).