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[Ushae]

It'll be heavily in their favour in the US only, we'd need to see the UK/France/Germany packages to make a call on Europe.

It depends on if they have any interest at all in Europe, as it will be a shedload of work setting up media partnerships and individual packages for each country. Even in the UK, forget cable, forget American sports. If you want a similar deal, it means partnering with sky to get football. That won't be cheap or easy. It'll be a different setup for each country, and even then I'm not sure Kinect is as big a selling point here as they think it is. Trade-ins are big business here and we are in recession, so it might come down to which system makes it cheaper to keep playing the latest games.

Last I checked GAME tanked and HMV is on its way out. Trade Ins are integral to the market, I totally agree with this, no other way around it. And I believe UK is primarily a MS area, the rest of Europe being a a little more in Sony's favour.

Will be interesting to see what both companies do going forward.

 

[FDC1]

Last I checked GAME tanked and HMV is on its way out. Trade Ins are integral to the market, I totally agree with this, no other way around it. And I believe UK is primarily a MS area, the rest of Europe being a a little more in Sony's favour.

Will be interesting to see what both companies do going forward.

a little more? lol

 

[Phire Phox]

It's not about buying used games it's about trading your games in to fund the purchase of the next new one.

But here's the big fucking irony for you. I turn on my Xbox One and I watch TV. How do developers get compensated for that? I decide to snap the TV off to one side and make a Skype call. How do developers get compensated for that? Internet browsing? Music? Netflix? NFL?

Developers and corporate apologists like you embrace this consumer-fucking DRM, yet at the same time Microsoft have thrown in so many non-gaming features to distract attention and divert money away from video games and no-one seems to have a problem with that.

Why would the developer get compensated for something that has nothing to do with the game they created? Those distractions would exist regardless if Microsoft put those features in the Xbox One.

 

[Mael]

a little more? lol

Well a lil bit more Sony's than Nintendo's.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

the difference is that they are not stupid or arrogant enough to squander it.

Could have fooled me.

 

[mrklaw]

Of course, the ONE becomes a lot more palatable if cable and sky offer it as an extra like the TiVO doesn't it. Remains to be seen but I think this is the main method of how The XBOX ONE will eventually get a foothold into homes (UK anyway).

Don't want to fork out for an extra console again? Here, add an extra £10 to your bill on a two year contract and get the new xbox. It does games, it does this, it does this as well and it also does this. It could even go for the OEM market as well (V+ boxes eg.) . Let's face it, the backend of Virgin TV is poor, the new xbox would probably improve a lot of the services. I think TV partnerships will be invaluable to the launch into people's homes for Microsoft.

Think of a seasonal launch - Little Timmy wants to play COD:Ghosts but it's another console. Wait, I can get a new cable box with new services and he can play COD on it, all for an extra £n per month? Sold.

Having had time to digest this now, I believe Microsoft are playing the long game. If they sign a couple of bumper deals with tv platforms they could quite easily see their box in everyone's home (maybe with an OEM stamp - but they won't care about that).

actually as a front end to Tivo in the UK it'd be great. Tivo is a great service but the box is shit - the UI is clunky and damn slow. But using my ipad as a front end is fine. Anything you can do wiht the remote you can do over the network, so the Xbox could fully control it (including setting recordings, starting playback of recordings, searching what programs you have recorded and the live guide). and the xbox ui would be way faster and smoother than the default Tivo one

I'd almost buy an xbox one if they had that level of integration with Tivo (very much doubt they will though)

 

[Arthea]

I think this time MS isn't after me.
I had this idea since conference that it's differentiation of gaming market. Lemme explain this.

X1 is after multiplayer-online mostly gamers, dedicated servers and all. If you are online mostly gamer, being always online is needed and makes sense, also you most likely aren't affected by used games, as for online games you need to buy them right after release for peak server activity. As you play very limited amount of games, having many secondary non-gaming related services again is a plus.

Now if you are into singleplay games mostly, there is no single reason for you to buy X1, and there are multiple reasons to buy PS4. As Sony goes after you, they told as much, after people who play games, not certain type, but many different games.

I'm still not sure where Nintendo stands in all this. Well it's obvious that you need WiiU for Nintendo games, but other than that their goals are unclear to me.

Does it make sense?

 

[driver116]

Of course, the ONE becomes a lot more palatable if cable and sky offer it as an extra like the TiVO doesn't it. Remains to be seen but I think this is the main method of how The XBOX ONE will eventually get a foothold into homes (UK anyway).

Don't want to fork out for an extra console again? Here, add an extra £10 to your bill on a two year contract and get the new xbox. It does games, it does this, it does this as well and it also does this. It could even go for the OEM market as well (V+ boxes eg.) . Let's face it, the backend of Virgin TV is poor, the new xbox would probably improve a lot of the services. I think TV partnerships will be invaluable to the launch into people's homes for Microsoft.

Think of a seasonal launch - Little Timmy wants to play COD:Ghosts but it's another console. Wait, I can get a new cable box with new services and he can play COD on it, all for an extra £n per month? Sold.

Having had time to digest this now, I believe Microsoft are playing the long game. If they sign a couple of bumper deals with tv platforms they could quite easily see their box in everyone's home (maybe with an OEM stamp - but they won't care about that).

What about when little timmy wants to play Cod but mammy and daddy watch jeremy kyle, flog it and eastenders?

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

XBOne will be number one in 'the' sales.

 

[redcrayon]

Last I checked GAME tanked and HMV is on its way out. Trade Ins are integral to the market, I totally agree with this, no other way around it. And I believe UK is primarily a MS area, the rest of Europe being a a little more in Sony's favour.

Will be interesting to see what both companies do going forward.

Game are opening new shops (the wisdom of this is another argument entirely), and are still the main high street retailer with a presence in most towns, with a large amount of second-hand shelf space. They closed down 227 shops last year after the buyout, mainly where they were doubled up after acquisitions, but 348 shops is still a huge retail presence considering the size of the UK.

From Eurogamer, May 2013

Video game shop-chain GAME, which this time last year was in dire straits, plans now on opening 18 new shops by July.
It's not a lot in the scheme of things, as GAME already owns around 330 stores up and down the country. But in March last year there were another 227 GAME and Gamestation stores around.

The UK is primarily a MS>Sony market, but it's not complete domination, much in the same way as the other European markets are the other way around. Looking at it as a binary area doesn't help- a 60/40 split is far easier to shift than a 90/10 one. This works for all markets- It doesn't mean they are permanently in thrall to one or the other, and that's why I think they should be very careful with the UK, and also that Sony shouldn't take it's position for granted either. Generation shifts are notorious for shaking things up.

From Joystiq, UK 2010 sales (this is the first article on UK sales I could find, not one I looked for for a specific nefarious reason!)

The Xbox 360 and PS3 were the only hardware platforms to see sales growth, with the 360 accounting for £232 million ($361 million) in sales from 18.2 million consoles sold (thanks price break!), and the PS3 just below that figure with £229 million ($357 million) in sales from 13.8 million units

Numbers vary up and down slightly each year but hopefully this illustrates that the market isn't quite as secure as MS would like.

Look at it this way, Sony did have complete and utter domination with the PS2 here, and still lost it. MS's position here isn't guaranteed if they don't offer a tailored approach, but there's still 6 months to go, so it's all to play for.

 

[cormack12]

What about when little timmy wants to play Cod but mammy and daddy watch jeremy kyle, flog it and eastenders?

It's a good point and one I made yesterday too. The problem with the strategy is that traditionally consoles are seen as bedroom devices because mum (usually) wants to watch some trashy TV, or doesn't want the sound of grenades being dropped in the living room.

On the flip side not many people have direct cable TV feeds into their bedrooms either. This is where it conflicts. Having said that, in my mums, I have two brothers, a sister and my dad and they all come to some sort of arrangement.

It obviously won't suit those who want to dive in and play 4-8 hours on COD straight but it might suit a larger demographic. I'm sure MS have figures and stats about usage trends.

It may fail, bit it might just succeed if they do things right.

 

[Mung]

actually as a front end to Tivo in the UK it'd be great. Tivo is a great service but the box is shit - the UI is clunky and damn slow. But using my ipad as a front end is fine. Anything you can do wiht the remote you can do over the network, so the Xbox could fully control it (including setting recordings, starting playback of recordings, searching what programs you have recorded and the live guide). and the xbox ui would be way faster and smoother than the default Tivo one

I'd almost buy an xbox one if they had that level of integration with Tivo (very much doubt they will though)

Nothing special here. My ps3 has done this for 5 years.

 

[twobear]

I don't think anything will surprise me, if Xbone bombs, if it pulls a Wii, if it does the same as the 360. I accepted long ago that I have like no ability at all to tell how successful a product will be.

 

[dancmc]

I am pretty sure both MS as Sony would gladly trade every single GAF member as a fan if it means they could put their box in x million more households.

 

[redcrayon]

I am pretty sure both MS as Sony would gladly trade every single GAF member as a fan if it means they could put their box in x million more households.

Heh, yeah, those customers that actually pay attention to what they are up to? Yeah, thems the tricksy ones!

 

[Burai]

Why would the developer get compensated for something that has nothing to do with the game they created? Those distractions would exist regardless if Microsoft put those features in the Xbox One.

Which is entirely my point. They shouldn't be compensated for people watching TV nor should they be compensated for someone buying a used copy of their game. They have nothing to do with either of those transactions.

 

[Hindle]

I think they will as well, simply because Japan is declining in a big way. That market was a big advantage to Sony this gen, if they lose sales there MS will outsell them.

 

[Kosma]

I think they will as well, simply because Japan is declining in a big way. That market was a big advantage to Sony this gen, if they lose sales there MS will outsell them.

The gap between ms and sony in japan is only a few million, its europe that makes the big difference. And europe is the reason why ps3 has outsold the 360 and is only widening the gap now.

 

[Hindle]

The gap between ms and sony in japan is only a few million, its europe that makes the big difference. And europe is the reason why ps3 has outsold the 360 and is only widening the gap now.

There are even several markets in Europe that are currently in trouble. Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal, all markets where Sony are dominant. Due to thier employment situation, I'm expecting Europe to decline as well. It's because of this why I think MS will do better IMO. Microsofts market base is far more stable as it stands.

 

[BennBeckman]

given that Wii u and vita seem doa and 3ds is struggling i dont think the success of anything is assured

xb1 has a good reaction with the mainstream, poor reaction with gamers. ps4 has a good reaction with gamers

it remains to be seen how fast uptake of these systems will be with the public at large given the diminishing returns in graphics and lack of new features

 

[Forkball]

I think Xbox One will top the NPD charts for both November and December of this year. The majority of people are going to walk out of Best Buy on Black Friday with Xbox One and COD Ghosts. The brand has a strong presence, people are not willing to sacrifice their friends list, and yes there are people who are still into Kinect and Sony has no answer to that (don't say Move). Sadly, this is how I imagine conversations going:

Buyer: Xbox One has Kinect and Call of Duty. What's PS4 got?
Clerk: A Killzone prequel and a creepy puppet game.
Buyer: ... gimme da Xbox.

In the forseeable future? Sony could easily pull ahead.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

The gap between ms and sony in japan is only a few million, its europe that makes the big difference. And europe is the reason why ps3 has outsold the 360 and is only widening the gap now.

8 million is not a few million and with the WiiU floundering PS4 has a chance to make that into even more.

 

[Glass Rebel]

If the Xbone comes out on top next generation, we as gamers have really failed.

 

[bigol]

Two things decide which console will sell more

Price and Games

Better price, games variety and games quality will determine the winner

Wii was a completely different beast because it invented a new way to play games, but ps4 and xbox one are more traditional, nothing completely new from what we already have

 

[Dave Meltzer]

Saying which system will sell best now is like picking a race winner by throwing a dart at a list of runners. You haven't even seen a meaningful game for Xbox.

It really comes down to price, marketing quality and launch lineup, none of which we know. I have a feeling based on Microsoft's recent history the marketing for Xbox One is going to be atrocious and give PS4 an edge. But I'll wait for actual evidence first.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

No no no no no no

Your points are pretty bad. There will be fantastic exclusives on PS4 as well. Probably more so since Sony has better developers. You won't find Naughty Dog's next game on the Xbox One!

And no one cares about Kinect. That ship has sailed with the wii.

 

[crusadernm]

MS should bundle Kinect Sports 3 with the XB1. That would making a killing in sales to the mainstream.

 

[Septimius]

Kinect is going to be the new Wiimote? So this is brand new tech, then?

No, it isn't. Outside of dancing games, workout games, anything where you wave your hand in place of actually holding something will be completely awkward. Holding a Wiimote and playing tennis does not a real racket make, but the mind can sense that there's something in the hand, and then super-impose the alleged structure and feeling to it, itself. Waving your hand around to play tennis is just... no. Sure, it's cool that you can drag the video you're watching, but for fuck's sake, I hate that MS is trying to force me to dilute my media experiences by being able to change between them rapidly.

I have no idea how many hours I have spent trying to summon to people in Dark Souls, waited to be invaded. That's pure idling. I had my remote, and I started switching back and forth, but then I realized it just ruined my experience. I want to be immersed in the Dark Souls world. I'll rather sit and wait than throw myself out of the immersion and mindset. And now Xbone is trying to tell me it can instantly change between anything? Why do I care? The absolute worst thing I know is to have to pause a good movie. Why the fuck am I going to snap a video call besides my game? Yes, I want to talk to my friends, but why the fuck should I see them?

If people want to talk gimmicks, this has to be it. It's trying so hard to be "One" (and I did giggle when it was like "ALL IN ONE BOX" and it was three distinct pieces of hardware they were showing) it's just ruining the experience for me. Yes, it's neat to be able to change to TV via Kinect, but if there's a definition of gimmick, this has to be it.

 

[Katana_Strikes]

It'll depend on price and launch games, as well as marketing and availability.

I can see in the US and the UK, as long as both platforms have near parity, then the XBone will edge it due to brand loyalty, at least initially. Everywhere else though, I don't see MS having much chance.

This time round MS don't have a one year head start to gain momentum and sales and they also won't have a rival who is more expensive (a lot more or at all) or as unprepared and have such a rough launch. In fact all signs point to Sony being more prepared for launch than MS is.

Launch is going to skew things but the real test... like we are seeing with the WiiU is how post launch it is all handled and where we see who gains traction and momentum.

I personally think it will be a closer battle in the US and UK but it'll be much more in favour of Sony everywhere else. I can't see how Japan will even bother with the Xbox this time around

 

[Face it Tiger..]

I think Xbox One will top the NPD charts for both November and December of this year. The majority of people are going to walk out of Best Buy on Black Friday with Xbox One and COD Ghosts. The brand has a strong presence, people are not willing to sacrifice their friends list, and yes there are people who are still into Kinect and Sony has no answer to that (don't say Move). Sadly, this is how I imagine conversations going:

Buyer: Xbox One has Kinect and Call of Duty. What's PS4 got?
Clerk: A Killzone prequel and a creepy puppet game.
Buyer: ... gimme da Xbox.

In the forseeable future? Sony could easily pull ahead.

This is one of the best strawmen I've seen all day.

 

[Eusis]

I think Xbox One will top the NPD charts for both November and December of this year. The majority of people are going to walk out of Best Buy on Black Friday with Xbox One and COD Ghosts. The brand has a strong presence, people are not willing to sacrifice their friends list, and yes there are people who are still into Kinect and Sony has no answer to that (don't say Move). Sadly, this is how I imagine conversations going:

Buyer: Xbox One has Kinect and Call of Duty. What's PS4 got?
Clerk: A Killzone prequel and a creepy puppet game.
Buyer: ... gimme da Xbox.

In the forseeable future? Sony could easily pull ahead.

Who're you kidding, they'd say "it's got CoD too!"

I half expect that just means they'll buy whatever the fuck's still in stock actually.

 

[Ushae]

If the Xbone comes out on top next generation, we as gamers have really failed.

Why? Because MS attempted to acquire a wider market at the same time as the core gamers? When those sales figures are released either Sony or MS will copy the other, its always the case. These companies chase success more than anything else.

 

[Forkball]

Who're you kidding, they'd say "it's got CoD too!"

I half expect that just means they'll buy whatever the fuck's still in stock actually.

"But my friends are all on Xbox." Seriously, a huge portion of the gaming populous is quite ignorant towards differences between consoles, and don't be surprised if people have no idea that Xbox One can't even play used games come launch. You might think this is ridiculous, but they're out there. You do make a good point about the stock, a Nintendo-esque stock screw up could definitely tip the advantage to either one.

 

[flipswitch]

This is how ebgames.com.au are advertising Xbone on their front page.

 

[Katana_Strikes]

MS should bundle Kinect Sports 3 with the XB1. That would making a killing in sales to the mainstream.

I doubt these motion games hold much traction anymore. If WiiU came out with WiiSports 3, would that be really doing any better than it is now?

Certainly the casuals have moved on and most certainly won't be buying a $400 machine out the gates to do the same thing they have locked away in their attics.

I'm not even sure Kinect will appeal to that many this time around, if a) they were suckered into buying it first time around and rarely bothered with it and b) whether it will come across as being a huge leap in what it offers this time around.

Or maybe you meant it would kill sales and momentum

 

[open_mouth_]

some pretty good points in here mixed in with some very *cough* passionate anti-xbox rhetoric.

Two simple questions for those who will "never" buy a X1:

1. Do you currently use steam and it's DRM which doesn't allow you to resell your games or even your account (or even share your account as per the policy agreement)?

2. If Sony has a similar drm scheme (very likely) and also starts charging for online multiplayer (less likely, but not out of the realm of possibility), will you stop supporting them too or will you conveniently gloss over these bullet points when that time comes?

Something tells me we're going to have plenty of hypocrites around these parts in a few short weeks...

 

[QaaQer]

some pretty good points in here mixed in with some very *cough* passionate anti-xbox rhetoric.

Two simple questions for those who will "never" buy a X1:

1. Do you currently use steam and it's DRM which doesn't allow you to resell your games or even your account (or even share your account as per the policy agreement)?

ffs, it has been said a thousand times: steam has competition and it is on an open platform, hence the prices are lower. Now if the only place on windows to buy games was the Microsoft Store, then would could compare the two.

2. If Sony has a similar drm scheme (very likely) and also starts charging for online multiplayer (less likely, but not out of the realm of possibility), will you stop supporting them too or will you conveniently gloss over these bullet points when that time comes?

Something tells me we're going to have plenty of hypocrites around these parts in a few short weeks...

Again, ffs, if sony does the exact same thing as MS, then there will be enough hate to go around. But hey, if it makes you feel better believing that there is somekind of generalized bias against poor nice Microsoft, go nutz. Just expect to be seen as an idiot.

 

[Wickwire]

I never bought a 360 and I dont see myself buying this

 

[QaaQer]

I doubt these motion games hold much traction anymore. If WiiU came out with WiiSports 3, would that be really doing any better than it is now?

Certainly the casuals have moved on and most certainly won't be buying a $400 machine out the gates to do the same thing they have locked away in their attics.

I'm not even sure Kinect will appeal to that many this time around, if a) they were suckered into buying it first time around and rarely bothered with it and b) whether it will come across as being a huge leap in what it offers this time around.

Or maybe you meant it would kill sales and momentum

Thats the thing about fads, they can only be fads once. And kinect and wiimotes were both fads.

 

[AOC83]

It won´t be number one anywhere but UK and US and even that is questionable.
Rest of the world can live without this anti consumer, anti gamer piece of shit.

 

[Mihos]

I am going to buy one, but I will most likely buy 2 PS4 (one for the kids). It was the opposite last gen. Both for me and a 360 for the kids.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Depending on games and price at launch, I could totally see MS coming out of the gate stronger than Sony...in North America and maybe the UK. It's all down to the time between E3 and the launch period for MS and partners to change everything from where it seems doomed to something positive. Even discounting the poor debut presentation, it was laser-focused on mainstream use and properties, something MS knows is the main driver of sales for a popular consumer electronic device...after launch. Whether they bring enough to E3 to show to please early adopters/serious gamers, I have no clue, but given their confidence in going with such a hype-deflating show to start, I have to believe that they're prepared to beat the negativity back with key software and a solid launch and price strategy. Right now, though, they just dug themselves one hell of a hole to climb out of.

 

[flipswitch]

Number One in sales, so in other words a turd?.

 

[specialguy]

The gap between ms and sony in japan is only a few million, its europe that makes the big difference. And europe is the reason why ps3 has outsold the 360 and is only widening the gap now.

Prove that PS3 has outsold the 360.

Since Sony stopped giving out PS3 shipments, we will never know.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I see it coming out of the gate strong from marketing and then quickly tapering off as the used game block straps people of cash to spend on games. Also the online thing will hurt sales of college kids a lot.

I completely expect game sales to tank next generation without a healthy used market, since I'm pretty sure they're not going to lower the price of games.

 

[specialguy]

ffs, it has been said a thousand times: steam has competition and it is on an open platform, hence the prices are lower. Now if the only place on windows to buy games was the Microsoft Store, then would could compare the two.

steam prices are lower? many times i've looked and the games are more expensive than physical copies on amazon.

they are famous for their crazy sales is all, and afaik even those have declined in quality.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

Kinect 2.0
Kinect 2.0 will be the next Wiimote.

lol. Now that we agree on....

 

[Dave Meltzer]

I see it coming out of the gate strong from marketing and then quickly tapering off as the used game block straps people of cash to spend on games. Also the online thing will hurt sales of college kids a lot.

I completely expect game sales to tank next generation without a healthy used market, since I'm pretty sure they're not going to lower the price of games.

Why are PC sales not in the gutter?

 

[QaaQer]

steam prices are lower? many times i've looked and the games are more expensive than physical copies on amazon.

they are famous for their crazy sales is all, and afaik even those have declined in quality.

Guess what, the new 'no used game policy' has not been implemented yet. Get back to me with the amazon prices when people can no longer sell their used copies.

edit, I assume you are talking about the console equivalent. If not, then that just proves my point that competition is what keeps prices down for the pc user. If steam ismore expensive then buy it from amazon, or origin, or greenman, or gamestop, or whatever.

 

[spock]

Initial sales will be strong, dudes bros will buy...all to a point. My gut tells me as other issues become more known to consumers (assuming the issues still exist in the future) sales are going to weaken.

Right now NOTHING I see from XO creates a strong value proposition for consumers outside the xbox brand it self. That will carry them early on and to a point.

The only way I see them easily dominating is if they some how price the system very cheap via subsiding or offering deals directly with cable providers.