DaCocoBrova
Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
Allows the M$ dash to be viewed progressively.
Agreed.
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xbox vga, how good does it look?
- Thread starter Joe
- Start date
Allows the M$ dash to be viewed progressively.
Agreed.
Naked Snake
Member
DaCocoBrova said:
I think you're basing your opinion on playing GC in 480p on a plasma display, right? Well I hooked my GC to a friend's 42" widescreen plasma through VGA while sitting on a couch far back, and I really loved the result! I guess it's similar to running progressive scan on a big TV with component cables... My complaints are probably only valid when playing on a small PC monitor sitting a foot or two away on a desk.
DaCocoBrova
Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
I hate plasmas though. I think they're crazy overrated. The only thing I like about them is the color vibrancy.
That said, my opinions are based off a 17" Samsung Magic Brite. Metroid Prime, the snow level, made my jaw drop something serious. Many details I never would've notices otherwise, jumped right out at me.
That said, my opinions are based off a 17" Samsung Magic Brite. Metroid Prime, the snow level, made my jaw drop something serious. Many details I never would've notices otherwise, jumped right out at me.
Chittagong
Gold Member
OK, I'm a rookie in this and do not feel like doing a lot of research. Is there a way for me to play my Xbox with VGA on my plasma if I want
1. to use PAL Xbox
2. with optical sound out
?
1. to use PAL Xbox
2. with optical sound out
?
Naked Snake
Member
DaCocoBrova said:
Hmm, I didn't see the snow levels in MP with VGA, I'll check it out sometime... I think I only played the first part (space station) in VGA, and didn't like what I saw at all.
Lazy8s said:
No, it looks like a dithered image, especially since the other alternative is to truncate the extra color information (aka banding...yuck!). No matter how magical you think the DC chipset is, it can't do a completely lossless 32-bit to 16-bit conversion. Sorry, that's just the laws of nature
This dithering is going to be much more noticeable on a sharper VGA display than on an NTSC television, and that is what dark10x is complaining about...
Naked Snake
Member
Argyle said:No, it looks like a dithered image, especially since the other alternative is to truncate the extra color information (aka banding...yuck!). No matter how magical you think the DC chipset is, it can't do a completely lossless 32-bit to 16-bit conversion. Sorry, that's just the laws of nature
This dithering is going to be much more noticeable on a sharper VGA display than on an NTSC television, and that is what dark10x is complaining about...
It's such a breath of fresh air when you see informed and intelligent junior members
DaCocoBrova
Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
All you neeed is the High-Def pack or whatever stupid name they gave the component adapter. It has optical out as well.
There's no point in going VGA w/ a plasma since they have component-in and they're natively progressive.
DaCocoBrova
Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
My only knock about the X2VGA is that it's console specific.
X-Blaster will give you the same results, is/was cheaper and can be used on any device that has component-out.
X-Blaster will give you the same results, is/was cheaper and can be used on any device that has component-out.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
Joe said:
I have it and recommend it, if you're looking for an Xbox only solution. Headphones are possible but you need a Y adaptor for the audio cables since it doesn't have a true headphone slot. Very easy to use and set-up and plugs directly into the Xbox A/V connector. Certain games look better than others (from the ones I've tried anyway). Splinter Cell and Rallisport 1 or 2, for example, look spectacular, whereas Panzer Orta and Otogi actually look somewhat worse to me than on a standard TV (it has this soft look I don't like on VGA).
Fongul
Member
I already purchased an X-Blaster for my progressive scan needs (Thumbs up by me on my 21 inch Trinitron Sony Monitor 'o' Doom) for XB and GC. Now I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to get my Playstation 2 involved as well. Are any of the upscan convertors decent (XRGB 2 or the new Hori Upscan Convertor) or would I be better off with the Blaze device?
My friend purchased something called the Magic Box (not the controller adaptor) from a HK retailer and says the upscan image gets the thumbs up. Any recommendations?
My friend purchased something called the Magic Box (not the controller adaptor) from a HK retailer and says the upscan image gets the thumbs up. Any recommendations?
Chittagong
Gold Member
DaCocoBrova said:
Well, I have actually that, and it has a RGB scart out. The picture is crisp, but I'm under the impression that Component and Progressive are no-nos for PAL Xbox. So, I guess the VGA wouldn't make a difference, then?
dark10x:
Argyle:
dark10x:
Describe the effects being done in these screenshots which someone was kind enough to locate:
Example is not what should be relied upon to form the basis for understanding.
The issue is settled in the explanation of how the machines work. Examples do not provide to that argument.
Argyle:
Precision of the output buffer has nothing to do with the precision of internal color operations/blends.
No, dark10x wrongfully criticized the precision of DC's color blending, which is always performed at full 32-bit accuracy unlike other consoles.
dark10x:
Shouldn't be assuming the DC couldn't do those brightenings without understanding what's being demonstrated in those effects.
Describe the effects being done in these screenshots which someone was kind enough to locate:
Example is not what should be relied upon to form the basis for understanding.
ArcadeStickMonk
Member
.
Lazy8s said:
Forgive me, that's not what I was complaining about...
THIS is the correct complaint. You're right, it generally looks better than some of the 16-bit output I've seen. However, I believe Voodoo 3 used a similar method to the DC (but really did only support 16-bit out). Is this right? Voodoo 3 has a much better 16-bit OUTPUT than the Dreamcast does. TNT1 is, I'll admit, worse than Dreamcast. The look is very similar, however, which is why I that was the example I used.
My entire complaint is that the resolution and output color depth is not high enough at this point. When using the superior VGA output capabilites of the Dreamcast on a higher quality display (such a PC monitor), flaws become more noticeable. It is not the fault of the DC's VGA output, however, it is simply that the games are not rendered in a high enough resolution for my liking and viewing them on an NTSC TV artificially masks some of the flaws. Some people, however, would rather deal with those while gaining the benefits of DC VGA. Based on comments various people provided previously when I showed various levels of filters being used on a PSX emulator, I found that many people prefer pixelated visuals to a blurrier look. I simply do not feel that way and believe that 640x480 is too pixelated on a decent sized VGA monitor. That's all.
Also, MDK2 does not do what I'm talking about. It's one of my favorite DC titles, and the corona effect in MDK2 is NOTHING like what I'm talking about. It does not function in the same way. MDK2's effects are similar to the original Unreal...
Also, the explosions look terrible in MDK2...
Come on man, I don't know all the details here. Can you not see what I'm talking about? Well, I have come to realization that you have very little "hands-on" experience. I'll try for another example...
Sunlight in ICO, for example, can filter through trees, around edges, and seriously change the tone of the screen. The depending on the position of the camera and the sun, the appearance of the scene changes quite a bit.
Other games go beyond that and have an even greater "bloom" like effect.
Also, what is the make and model of your monitor that you use for gaming? I'm just curious at this point to see what it is that you are using...
Ha ha, nevermind. Are you still using like an old CTX curved screen monitor or something (with cheap-o altec lansing speakers next to it) on top of some wooden desk?
dark10x:
If your entire complaint now is that defects along with all detail are clearer when using a sharper display, then this never had anything to do with Dreamcast technical issues.
For a 16-bit buffer, it produces no extra dithering on top of the conversion to 16-bit output.
No, blending layers of translucency dithered the Voodoo3's color more from 24-bit to 16-bit each time.
... Which is why it had been explained to you by Warm Machine and Argyle and why you shouldn't be assuming DC can't do it.
You've said you can't explain the basketball and MDK2 effects, so there's no basis for difference to compare them to each other or to some other new ICO example.
Not going to be straight with me eh? So it looks like I was right then...
Shenmue 2's water fountain is awful looking man. What are you thinking?
DOA2 and SC have nice effects, but they do not display the type of effect I am referring to. I'm not nitpicking those either, but they really don't do what I'm talking about.
Look at the sun in stuff like Burnout 3, GT3, Ridge Racer V, ICO, Wreckless, Splinter Cell, Halo, MGS3 and SSX3. You know the look? It's very common these days and isn't really anything special, but it was the first thing I noticed when PS2 was first launched. No Dreamcast game ever had anything like that, and I was always curious why.
I mean, in DC games, sun effects were often handled kinda like this...
I know that other games were much nicer looking than that (Sonic Adventure 1, for instance), but that's the kind of look that was common on DC.
Shenmue 2's water fountain is awful looking man. What are you thinking?
DOA2 and SC have nice effects, but they do not display the type of effect I am referring to. I'm not nitpicking those either, but they really don't do what I'm talking about.
Look at the sun in stuff like Burnout 3, GT3, Ridge Racer V, ICO, Wreckless, Splinter Cell, Halo, MGS3 and SSX3. You know the look? It's very common these days and isn't really anything special, but it was the first thing I noticed when PS2 was first launched. No Dreamcast game ever had anything like that, and I was always curious why.
I mean, in DC games, sun effects were often handled kinda like this...
I know that other games were much nicer looking than that (Sonic Adventure 1, for instance), but that's the kind of look that was common on DC.
Shompola said:
Well, the type of effect I'm talking about is this brighter look...
See the sun up there?
Compared to...
Also, a different effect. Notice the "overbright" look on the ground under the light? This is very common in XBOX, PS2, and GC titles (or at least, common enough that it shows up a number of games). Star Ocean 3, SSX3, Splinter Cell, ICO, MGS2, and plenty more often have that over-exposed lighting effect...
It's just those types of "bright lights" that I really like. They look cool, and I was wondering what it was that kept those types of things out of DC games. I own a lot of DC titles and have seen even more. None of them have anything like that...
DC games just seemed to lack that heavy contrast in lighting that I've grown to love. You kinda see what I mean? Oh yeah, that MDK2 shot DOES look similar...but if you actually play the game and see that part, it really is a very different effect. You can kinda see it in that shot too. It is just a blurry alpha "sprite" or texture of some sort.
In those other shots, you'll see the lighting interact nicely with solid objects (sort of grown and shrink around objects and such). If you look through the trees in ICO, for instance, the light doesn't shine all the way through...but the brightness makes the edges of the leaves lose detail as light blooms around them. You know what I mean?
suikodan
Member
I am checking the Vdigi VGA Box... it says here that it supports 480p and 720p. But will my LCD monitor display those resolution?
Soul Calibur 2 in 720p is just too awesome. I would be ready to play single player games on a 17" LCD screen with VGA rather than a 27" with composite.
Soul Calibur 2 in 720p is just too awesome. I would be ready to play single player games on a 17" LCD screen with VGA rather than a 27" with composite.
DaCocoBrova
Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
Bloom lighting... Isn't that what the effect is called??
Yes, considering this cheapy Microtek LCD monitor I use at work did it just fine.
Yes, considering this cheapy Microtek LCD monitor I use at work did it just fine.
BlackClouds
Member
Templar Wizard said:as i am in europe, i dont have a HDTV, so i have to use a VGA adaptor if i want my 480p+.
and i cant go back.
its fantastic. so clear so crisp and so cheap.
i reccomend it highly to anyone who wants a cheaper alternative to a HDTV pricetag.
but i must ask: do HDTV's provide any AA?
HDTV's are less sharp than computer monitors, so jaggies are less apparent, and practically non existent in 720p on up.
DaCocoBrova
Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
People that swear by HDTVs, plasmas etc. more than likely paid too much for one, or have never tried one out for gaming.
Plasmas for example, are slaves to their native resolution. So, if your plasma has a native resolution of 800x600, that's the resolution that will look the best on it, even though it can go higher. It has to internally upscan the image to compensate for the missing pixels.
Looks sh!tty. Text especially.
Plasmas for example, are slaves to their native resolution. So, if your plasma has a native resolution of 800x600, that's the resolution that will look the best on it, even though it can go higher. It has to internally upscan the image to compensate for the missing pixels.
Looks sh!tty. Text especially.
BlackClouds
Member
Which makes me wonder about the next gen systems, will they support custom resolutions for digital displays. Maybe some type of internal scalar would do the trick...who knows.
Anyways, I swear by HDTV though because you can have an image blown up to 57 inches or larger and still retain the bright progressive scan look (just a little less sharp). Really, there's no going back to even VGA monitors has my main gaming tv, if I can help it. Though I'm the type of person who is practically, so I have no need to fool myself on how these systems really look. They do have flaws that will be exposed when the next gen systems come out, and they never really bother me unless there's an excessive amount of them.
I'd also like to say that people should stop using pictures from Gamespot. Their pics are horrible. Too bad CV&VG doesn't have their dreamcast archive up, they used to take the best pics of Dreamcast games (from a dev kit most likely). I could show people the nicely rounded ass of the female in RE:CV.
Anyways, I swear by HDTV though because you can have an image blown up to 57 inches or larger and still retain the bright progressive scan look (just a little less sharp). Really, there's no going back to even VGA monitors has my main gaming tv, if I can help it. Though I'm the type of person who is practically, so I have no need to fool myself on how these systems really look. They do have flaws that will be exposed when the next gen systems come out, and they never really bother me unless there's an excessive amount of them.
I'd also like to say that people should stop using pictures from Gamespot. Their pics are horrible. Too bad CV&VG doesn't have their dreamcast archive up, they used to take the best pics of Dreamcast games (from a dev kit most likely). I could show people the nicely rounded ass of the female in RE:CV.
DaCocoBrova said:
I agree with you on the plasma displays, but CRT HDTVs look fantastic when running games. You get most of the benefits of VGA along with the benefits of an older analog set and it ends up looking better than both.
It falters when used in conjunction with a low quality image, however, but that is also the case with a PC monitor (which would either not allow the image to be displayed or would simply appear very pixelated).
It certainly helps out with field rendered PS2 titles, though. While the games are far from high-res, the line doubler removes ALL of the flicker that would be present when displayed on an interlaced screen. Those games can look very decent...
I still need to try outputting a d-scaler image to my TV via progressive scan, though. That should seriously boost the image quality of all PS2 titles...