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[HK-47]

Enemy Within and Long war add in so many other abilities that give you extra or free actions that you can be really mobile. Fuck time units.

 

[Bregor]

Time units are one of those things that (some) players think they want but don't realize would actually make the game less fun. Limitations are important to games, and the EU / EW system strikes a perfect balance IMO.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Time units are one of those things that (some) players think they want but don't realize would actually make the game less fun. Limitations are important to games, and the EU / EW system strikes a perfect balance IMO.

Limitations are important, but Time Units legitimately add an extra layer of strategy as well as often help pacing.
Unit in a good cover fire position? Keep them there and put everything on overwatch.
Enemy location phase? Use all of a units TU on movement to scout ahead
Combat phase? Use all your TU to keep attacking until an enemy is dead.

Seperating movement and action into two discreet Action Costs is simpler, but not inherently better.

 

[Bregor]

Limitations are important, but Time Units legitimately add an extra layer of strategy as well as often help pacing.
Unit in a good cover fire position? Keep them there and put everything on overwatch.
Enemy location phase? Use all of a units TU on movement to scout ahead
Combat phase? Use all your TU to keep attacking until an enemy is dead.

Seperating movement and action into two discreet Action Costs is simpler, but not inherently better.

More options does not necessarily mean better strategy. Forcing the player to make stark decisions can make the game more interesting!

Allowing the player to adjust their soldiers actions to exactly what they want is just a crutch for those who do not wish to deal with the choices imposed by the game.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Allowing the player to adjust their soldiers actions to exactly what they want is just a crutch for those who do not wish to deal with the choices imposed by the game.

Yeah Terror From The Deep - which used Time Units - is well known for being easy mode strategy for people who need a crutch.

come on now.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Time units are awful. Awful, uninteresting, fiddly. If Xenonauts had the blue/yellow move system, I probably would have finished it.

Long War does it best, where there are multiple abilities that make certain actions or moves free in certain contexts. The interactions between these, combined with overwatch, suppression, flush, steady aim, hunker down, etc. are just complex enough to make every decision (and sequence of decisions) interesting without being punishing. Losing a soldier in Xenonauts because you made a mistake in calculating how far they could move in one turn of an hour-long encounter is flatly terrible.

 

[Falk]

Time units are one of those things that (some) players think they want but don't realize would actually make the game less fun. Limitations are important to games, and the EU / EW system strikes a perfect balance IMO.

I don't think it's less fun as much as it is a radical design departure.

Having 20 soldiers makes the game less fun

Time units makes the game play differently. (And would require a complete re-thinking of half the class abilities)

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Time units are awful. Awful, uninteresting, fiddly.

Just because you've played games that implement them poorly doesn't mean they are poor.
The Julian Gollop 3DS Ghost Recon game uses Time Units and is fucking childs play to understand any given units movement and attack capabilities.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Just because you've played games that implement them poorly doesn't mean they are poor.
The Julian Gollop 3DS Ghost Recon game uses Time Units and is fucking childs play to understand any given units movement and attack capabilities.

Son, I have finished the original Enemy Unknown (as the 1994 game was known in Europe) and Terror from the Deep multiple times. I was 10 years old when I first started playing these games; I grew up on Time Units. And I still believe that Firaxis's blue/yellow move system is probably their greatest gift to the series.

 

[Sciz]

Limitations are important, but Time Units legitimately add an extra layer of strategy as well as often help pacing.
Unit in a good cover fire position? Keep them there and put everything on overwatch.
Enemy location phase? Use all of a units TU on movement to scout ahead
Combat phase? Use all your TU to keep attacking until an enemy is dead.

You can do all of this in EU, it's just locked behind specialized units with the intent that you diversify your troops and pick which ones to bring based on pre-map intel.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Son, I have finished the original Enemy Unknown (as the 1994 game was known in Europe) and Terror from the Deep multiple times. I was 10 years old when I first started playing these games; I grew up on Time Units. And I still believe that Firaxis's blue/yellow move system is probably their greatest gift to the series.

Cool.
Then you know that your opinion that time Units are a mistake and nothing but trash doesn't make that a fact. "Son".

You can do all of this in EU

You can't trade movement for extra attacks or vice versa as a base game action, no.

EDIT:
I don't even know why all of you are slagging the entire concept of TU off. XCom 2 doesn't even have them, what;'s the damn problem?

 

[Fragamemnon]

EDIT:
I don't even know why all of you are slagging the entire concept of TU off. XCom 2 doesn't even have them, what;'s the damn problem?

It's an outdated mechanic that the old-school hangers-on (not the old-school, most of us played OG X-COM when it came out on our PCs in the 1990s) can't let go and use to slag the Firaxis' remake as trivial or too simple.

The reality of it is that blue move/yellow move allow almost precise sequencing of actions between units. With TUs, interleaving actions between units was more or less only done for simple (often degenerate, see grenade hot-potato'ing) results. The ability for full squad action orchestration was there with TUs but was very annoying/tedious to put togther. Blue move/yellow move make it a snap to coordinate actions between squad members and flip between them to exploit free action abilities. Well planned and executed crucial turns in fights are beautiful in EU/EW and especially in LW with the bigger squads.

edit: full disclosure-some of us are raging long war fanboys for extremely good reason.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

It's an outdated mechanic that the old-school hangers-on (not the old-school, most of us played OG X-COM when it came out on our PCs in the 1990s) can't let go and use to slag the Firaxis' remake as trivial or too simple.

There's nothing inherently wrong with streamlining - which is what firaxis did, and I would argue too much with vanilla XCOM - but I don't think TU are an outdated mechanism and I look forward to someone doing a TU oriented mod that moves some of the strategic phase (pre-deploy unit selection) to the tactical phase (what units actually do on the field).

Like I said, if you want a good example of TU working well with the things that XCOM introduced - unit classes, perks, try out the 3DS Ghost Recon game.

 

[Sciz]

You can't trade movement for extra attacks or vice versa as a base game action, no.

Well, no, that's why I qualified the statement. It's not like Firaxis forgot that people would want to do that stuff, but getting there was made into part of the strategic level of gameplay.

edit: I think we both understand what the other's getting at, no sense in arguing in circles.

 

[Shake Appeal]

IGN drip drip drip.

XCOM 2'S BLEAK FUTURE: WHY IMPOSSIBLE IRON MAN MODE IS CANON -- IGN FIRST

New information: Bradford is back, 20 years older. That's it.

 

[Fragamemnon]

IGN drip drip drip.

XCOM 2'S BLEAK FUTURE: WHY IMPOSSIBLE IRON MAN MODE IS CANON -- IGN FIRST

Bradford's back, presumably to ask a new set of scientists and engineers the time-honored question of "What...is it doctor?"?

 

[Bregor]

Officer Sweater is back!!!

Edit:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00064CERM/?tag=neogaf0e-20

https://www.scifigeeks.com/product-category/xcom/

 

[Sober]

Bradford's back, presumably to ask a new set of scientists and engineers the time-honored question of "What...is it doctor?"?

CLOSE RANGE?!

 

[Funky Papa]

I'm shocked by how every single preview sounds so damn good.

It's just hitting all the right buttons. Solomon has this shit so on lock it's hard to believe.

Also, there's an Steam sale on XCOM. If you still don't own all the DLC, this is your chance. Get on it, scrubs.

 

[Falk]

But the idea is that XCOM never made it out of conventional weapons;

Gauss rush confirmed, Sober confirmed for Nostrasober

 

[WhirlwindMonk]

I see the old XCom games are in the Daily Deals. Is the classic pack worth picking up, or are one or two of the old ones notably better than the others?

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

I see the old XCom games are in the Daily Deals. Is the classic pack worth picking up, or are one or two of the old ones notably better than the others?

Xcom 1 is good, Xcom 2 is good but hard (because there was a bug in Xcom 1 that meant most people were playing in easy mode whether they chose to or not), Apocalypse / Interceptor / Enforcer / Declassified - Eh.

 

[Falk]

You haven't truly lived till you bring down hi-rise buildings in Apocalypse with sustained Disruptor fire from the entire squad.

Just to get that one last alien hiding inside.

IN REAL TIME.

 

[Fragamemnon]

I'm listening to the Firaxis live stream right now and I'll pass on any new details.

http://www.twitch.tv/firaxisgames

 

[TC McQueen]

XCOM2's bit on IGN's stream is Monday, 4PM PST/7PM EST.

 

[Rentahamster]

Officer Sweater is back!!!

Edit:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00064CERM/?tag=neogaf0e-20

https://www.scifigeeks.com/product-category/xcom/

lol it's his fucking sweater. That's hilarious.

 

[Funky Papa]

lol it's his fucking sweater. That's hilarious.

Hey, I remember when that shit was fashionable back in the late 90's/early 00's.

I guess time really is a flat circle.

 

[Rentahamster]

Aww dang they were giving away E3 passes on their livestream.

 

[Makikou]

Bradford confirmed for return is all i need.

XCOM 2 in my veins NOW pls.

 

[Funky Papa]

It's hard to believe that people enjoyed Central Officer Milketoast that much.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Yeah, Bradford is the blandest thing about a game that is already pretty bland in its storytelling, design and voice acting.

Although I do like the chunky soldiers.

 

[Remachinate]

It's hard to believe that people enjoyed Central Officer Milketoast that much.

I think it has more to do with the fact that he's the closest character to the "face" of XCOM, and the best way for the game to offer a narrative through-line between the games on a personal level. If the game treats you as the same commander that lost Impossible Ironman in the first game, it makes sense that they'd want you to see a familiar face coming back.

 

[Sober]

It's hard to believe that people enjoyed Central Officer Milketoast that much.

Clearly you have not been watching enough Beaglerush.

 

[Shake Appeal]

On the off chance everyone in this thread doesn't already own it, you can get the complete edition of XCOM for $9.99 on Steam until tomorrow. Install Long War and have yourself a fun time.

 

[Fragamemnon]

It's hard to believe that people enjoyed Central Officer Milketoast that much.

The performance was really campy, and that works great for a game like XCOM.

 

[Funky Papa]

I'm currently playing the DLC. It's been a good while since the last time I touched XCOM, but I see chrysalids are still the meanest cunts in the universe. I cringe thinking about what they are planning for them.

Also, the #1 rule of XCOM still applies: the poor devil carrying the medkit will be the first one to drop. Goddamn.

 

[Shake Appeal]

I'd like to see 'lids deployed as horrible shock troops in XCOM 2, too — maybe just let loose in remote settlements that are refusing to up and move into the megacities?

Did Chrysalids have Lightning Reflexes in vanilla, or was that just a Long War special? Because the first time that happened to me, oh boy.

 

[Kinthalis]

Are pre-orders available yet?

 

[Sciz]

Did Chrysalids have Lightning Reflexes in vanilla, or was that just a Long War special? Because the first time that happened to me, oh boy.

That's one of Long War's loving little touches to keep things interesting.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Did Chrysalids have Lightning Reflexes in vanilla, or was that just a Long War special? Because the first time that happened to me, oh boy.

The real fun is when the leader lids get 35 HP and shock absorbent armor. Not hard to deal with but dealing 6 with a reflex cannon is sad times.

 

[Funky Papa]

The real fun is when the leader lids get 35 HP and shock absorbent armor.

That is outright sadism. Where's the fun in that?

 

[huxley00]

Sweet! Great idea for a continuation of the story, I thought for sure the second game would put us on the offensive to Mars.

 

[Seth]

did they mention if this will use metal on mac?

 

[Nzyme32]

did they mention if this will use metal on mac?

2K were listed on the Apple Keynote, as were the porting studios commonly used for Mac including the one doing Xcom 2 - so I would put my money on yes. Firaxis have been good at supporting different solutions like Mantle, OGL & DX. They'll likely support what they can

 

[Taffer]

That is outright sadism. Where's the fun in that?

Long War XCOM troopers are fancier than their vanilla versions as well, so the fun comes from killing it and realising how cool your troops are now.

 

[Adnor]

IGN - Meet the XCOM 2 Sectoid and Viper

Oh fuck PSI Reanimate, guys I'm scared of Sectoids now.

 

[Sober]

That is outright sadism. Where's the fun in that?

Hive queen (boss chryssalid) in LW. Yes, that is 54 hp - on normal difficulty anyway. Add some hp the higher the difficulty and alien research (basically the further into the campaign you are).

Oh don't worry, they all died in the same turn they showed up. LW doesn't make everything outrageous for aliens without giving you tools to tackle them. You just have to wombo combo. Shredder rocket + flamethrower + grenades + focus fire. Remember in LW you have 8 man squads and many more force multipliers.

 

[Oppo]

IGN - Meet the XCOM 2 Sectoid and Viper

Oh fuck PSI Reanimate, guys I'm scared of Sectoids now.

what

like we need more chrysalids

 

[Funky Papa]

IGN - Meet the XCOM 2 Sectoid and Viper

Oh fuck PSI Reanimate, guys I'm scared of Sectoids now.

Better get the Astroglide. This game wants to go in dry.

 

[Remachinate]

IGN - Meet the XCOM 2 Sectoid and Viper

Oh fuck PSI Reanimate, guys I'm scared of Sectoids now.

Sure would be nice to see these abilities than have some guy tell me about them.