King of the Potato People
Member
Seriously they could have took that same plot and made more than one game out of it.McNum said:
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Xenoblade Chronicles |OT| Man, what a bunch of jokers.
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McNum said:
Alvis is a computer, sure. But more importantly: He isn't the Monado. He's a monad. look the term up - everything will become much clearer instantly. It makes even more sense considering he's a quantum computer. But as you implied, he's basically god. The one, true god. Klaus, Mayneth and even Shulk are no gods. They're just people Alvis recognizes. He has no emotions and no agenda. He was once created to supervise and analyze an experiment, conducted by Klaus and Mayneth. Shulk was an interesting side effect in an experiment that got stale, with no new data for Alvis to collect and analyze. Being a computer, he not only lacks an agenda, he also has no vision, so he asks Shulk to design a new universe (survival of the fitttest and stuff). But that doesn't make Shulk god, really. He simply comes up with a new scenario Alvis can analyze to his hearts content - something Alvis can't do due to his nature.
Also, I believe Shulk doesn't ressurect through sheer willpower. I believe the idea is that Zanza was sleeping in that reanimated, soulless body, but while he was sleeping, that golem ran around and formed new bonds and created new memories, which led to the creation of a new "soul" out of nothing, which ultimately led to the bizarre fact that Shulk created himself, and was at the same time created by his friends and the people he met.
Also, I believe Shulk doesn't ressurect through sheer willpower. I believe the idea is that Zanza was sleeping in that reanimated, soulless body, but while he was sleeping, that golem ran around and formed new bonds and created new memories, which led to the creation of a new "soul" out of nothing, which ultimately led to the bizarre fact that Shulk created himself, and was at the same time created by his friends and the people he met.
(Everything spoilers)wsippel said:Or at least that's my take...Alvis is a computer, sure. But more importantly: He isn't the Monado. He's a monad. look the term up - everything will become much clearer instantly. It makes even more sense considering he's a quantum computer. But as you implied, he's basically god. The one, true god. Klaus, Mayneth and even Shulk are no gods. They're just people Alvis recognizes. He has no emotions and no agenda. He was once created to supervise and analyze an experiment, conducted by Klaus and Mayneth. Shulk was an interesting side effect in an experiment that got stale, with no new data for Alvis to collect and analyze. Being a computer, he not only lacks an agenda, he also has no vision, so he asks Shulk to design a new universe (survival of the fitttest and stuff). But that doesn't make Shulk god, really. He simply comes up with a new scenario Alvis can analyze to his hearts content - something Alvis can't do due to his nature.
Also, I believe Shulk doesn't ressurect through sheer willpower. I believe the idea is that Zanza was sleeping in that reanimated, soulless body, but while he was sleeping, that golem ran around and formed new bonds and created new memories, which led to the creation of a new "soul" out of nothing, which ultimately led to the bizarre fact that Shulk created himself, and was at the same time created by his friends and the people he met.
A... monad? Ow, NOW my brain hurts. And here I thought "Monado" was a made up word, but it actually has a root in something. His lines before fighting Zanza make a lot more sense now, though. He's not really cheering anyone on, he's just curious what choices Shulk is about to make, because he quite possibly don't have the data to figure Shulk out. No one has, he's an anomaly. By all rights, he should be dead, not pulling out a third Monado from behind his back.
It also explains why Zanza's visions fail beyond a certain point. If Alvis is running the show, then he can also calculate the most probable outcome of a situation because he holds all the data. Those who can wield the Monados see this as visions. But when Alvis hits a barrier with not enough data available, then no one can get visions. No input means no output, after all.
This also explains why he's so obsessed with Shulk, to the point of interfering with his dreams. Even Alvis can't predict Shulk. The almighty power of a quantum computer, who can see both yes and no at the same time cannot predict Shulk. So many visions have shown Shulk get killed one way or another, but Shulk is still standing. He's an extreme statistical outlier and he just keeps breaking causality. More data is required. A lot more data, which is why Alvis is so curious.
And yeah, you're probably right. What revived Shulk was the memories he had made as he traveled the world with his friends. You could say the Power of Friendship, but even Xenoblade would be ashamed of that.
One thing I don't get, though, is during the final battle, Zanza complains that Shulk is the one getting the visions... but there's a gameplay mechanic interfering here. The final boss is the only time in the game where getting a vision is a QTE. Is this happening because Zanza is getting predictable, but Shulk just keeps breaking stuff? Or is Alvis just evening out the fight? Two Monados against one is hardly fair.
It also explains why Zanza's visions fail beyond a certain point. If Alvis is running the show, then he can also calculate the most probable outcome of a situation because he holds all the data. Those who can wield the Monados see this as visions. But when Alvis hits a barrier with not enough data available, then no one can get visions. No input means no output, after all.
This also explains why he's so obsessed with Shulk, to the point of interfering with his dreams. Even Alvis can't predict Shulk. The almighty power of a quantum computer, who can see both yes and no at the same time cannot predict Shulk. So many visions have shown Shulk get killed one way or another, but Shulk is still standing. He's an extreme statistical outlier and he just keeps breaking causality. More data is required. A lot more data, which is why Alvis is so curious.
And yeah, you're probably right. What revived Shulk was the memories he had made as he traveled the world with his friends. You could say the Power of Friendship, but even Xenoblade would be ashamed of that.
One thing I don't get, though, is during the final battle, Zanza complains that Shulk is the one getting the visions... but there's a gameplay mechanic interfering here. The final boss is the only time in the game where getting a vision is a QTE. Is this happening because Zanza is getting predictable, but Shulk just keeps breaking stuff? Or is Alvis just evening out the fight? Two Monados against one is hardly fair.
I'm beginning to think the game earns its "Xeno-" prefix. The story is simple on the surface, but... yikes when you dig a little deeper. Also, now I want a sequel of sorts, there's plenty still to be told in this universe.
McNum said:
He probably didn't pull out another Monado - he basically is another monad. He exists even though he never existed in the first place (he probably isn't an older version of the kid that died years ago, he's just using that body), so he is something (or someone) created out of nothing. Like Alvis, he's something that stands between 0 and 1. But no, Alvis certainly isn't cheering anyone on. He's neutral.
That's one thing I couldn't really figure out, either. There are a few possible explanations, but not one of those I came up with strikes me at particularly convincing. The easiest explanation would be the Fight Club rationale, though: he doesn't see the future, he creates it.
SecretMoblin
Member
...until you start on the quests for it.Kerub said:
wsippel said:
Oh shit, hahaha. That's awesome.
Replying spoilers:
All the different pages on Wiki under "monad" are all pretty much exactly what it is, haha. And knowing Takahashi and his Gnosticism, it's gonna be that definition, the "most primal aspect of god". But all the definitions are something to do with god, and the computer definitions are all pretty spot on too. Amazing, didn't know it was an actual word.
Welp, digested the game a bit more and yeah, it's gonna be up there as one of my favourite games. The JRPGs that end up in my ~top ten~ or whatever, are always Xenosaga and Final Fantasy IX. This absolutely joins them and probably tops them.
iluxenoblade <3
Also, Heropon is best Pon. One of the only "stupid animal sidekicks" in a game that is fucking awesome and super cute.
magicalsoundshower
Member
Oh hey, care to elaborate on this a little more? Guess I didn't do enough questing to be abe to figure this out. Still, I've always loved the little furball and he was a mainstay in my party for like the last half of the game.wsippel said:
So uh... anyone get that Happy New Year achievement?
I'm just about to get it I think. (Gametime is 145 hours) and I've fiddled with time here and there but nothing excessive (just to reach characters otherwise inaccessible). I'm curious if you have to do this achievement OUTSIDE and on normal natural progression of time? I figured I'd just rotate time til I get it since I'm around this time period.
I'm just about to get it I think. (Gametime is 145 hours) and I've fiddled with time here and there but nothing excessive (just to reach characters otherwise inaccessible). I'm curious if you have to do this achievement OUTSIDE and on normal natural progression of time? I figured I'd just rotate time til I get it since I'm around this time period.
Zomba13
Member
So I just beat the game (went past the point of no return at 77 and easily won while I had a huuuuuuuge amount of trouble at 76 lol).
I didn't see the ending coming at all but did kinda guess something was up when you get to the last few areas.
Really, really enjoyed this game.
I didn't see the ending coming at all but did kinda guess something was up when you get to the last few areas.
Really, really enjoyed this game.
Conrad Link
Member
Finally finished it!
80 hours well spent.
Such a wonderful game, man, just in awe of it still. Really really enjoyed it. Best JRPG of the gen easily, one of the best games full stop.
<3 Monolith Soft.
80 hours well spent.
Such a wonderful game, man, just in awe of it still. Really really enjoyed it. Best JRPG of the gen easily, one of the best games full stop.
<3 Monolith Soft.
SecretMoblin
Member
If you're planning on powering through it, just know that there's a long, long way to go. And the mountains of quests are largely over by that point, too, if you're worried about it.polg said:I'm on hour 72, and starting to get fatigue :/ I'm on. I've done quite a lot of side stuff. I might have to power through the rest of the game. Can't be bothered with 32425032 side quests anymoresword valley
Finished the game after having been up all night (9 am where I'm at) and goddamn if Monolith didn't manage to piece together one of the best RPG finales in a very long time. Everything that happens between the events of Meyneth Shrine and the ending is top notch imo )
Great game overall with some issues that holds it back from joining the ranks of the all time greats but very happy that I gave this game the 80 hours it took me to beat it.
)Great game overall with some issues that holds it back from joining the ranks of the all time greats but very happy that I gave this game the 80 hours it took me to beat it.
A few days ago, I mentioned that I was stuck at a certain, infamous, level 75 boss fight and that I was level 72 and grinding was taking forever. Well, luckily, it turns out that there were a ton of new quests that had opened up in Colony 6, so I quickly gained six levels and kicked the crap out of that boss.
The only problem now is that many of the enemies in the next area --
-- are still a higher level than me and are putting up a hell of a challenge. Worse yet, I've completed all the quests that I'm able to... I have a lot of quests available, but they all involve killing monsters that are level 85-99, which I haven't been able to do. I guess I'm back to the grind.
The only problem now is that many of the enemies in the next area --
Prison Island
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
What I thought was funny wasTemrer said:
when she asked for water a couple scenes later and Shulk was totally oblivious.
I went in at 76 and didn't have much problem, finished that area at 79. If you're 78 your problem isn't level, it's strategy, gems/equipment, or skill links.aett said:
Temrer said:
Does a "D'awww..." count? Because I totally D'awww'd at it. Seriously, those two are just too cute together.
There are several good inter-character scenes in the game, I also liked, in the same area,
Dunban, Riki and Melia's scene. Riki is much, much smarter than he looks.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Try this: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31772085&postcount=14576Jintor said:
I'm just wrapping up the Fallen Arm and I'm about to go to the Mechonis Foot. Even despite its simple approach at plot-twists, the game still manages to keep me interested and guessing.
Also, is there an easy way to go back to Colony 6 from here? I should have gotten that portable gem maker ages ago.
Like, it's obvious that Gadot is most likely going to be the next Face Unit, but it still elicited a "oh snap!" from me. Also, I don't trust Dickson right now. At all.
Also, is there an easy way to go back to Colony 6 from here? I should have gotten that portable gem maker ages ago.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Quick travel, works the same as anywhere else, even though it doesn't make a lot of sense.MechaX said:
Gvaz said:
Usually, there's no real need to travel across multiple areas as opposed to traveling between multiple landmarks in a single area. I remember opening the Area Map in the very beginning of the game, now that I think about it. But since I only had Tephra Cave unlocked, I easily forgot about it.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
- button brings up a map of the area you're in.Temrer said:
Just beat
, so it's almost over. This was by far the most trouble I've had with a fight, because it's mostly Ether based and of course the 'shield'. I ended up with Riki (controlled), Melia, and Sharla. Spammed Poison, Bleed, Freezinate, and Riki's healing move while Melia just buffed the team and Sharla kept me alive. Ignored the element shields and just focused on the boss.
I was five levels under the boss, so when I tried a few other teams with level VI Ether Defense gems equipped, it didn't make a difference. Riki saves the day again!
Took me until Eryth Sea to figure it out, because there's no other way to go back. Haha.
Lorithia
I was five levels under the boss, so when I tried a few other teams with level VI Ether Defense gems equipped, it didn't make a difference. Riki saves the day again!
Gvaz said:
Took me until Eryth Sea to figure it out, because there's no other way to go back. Haha.
McNum said:
Maybe it was an issue and I didn't notice, but I've been maxing out Agility and it seemed like we were fine hitting. I was struggling keeping the party up though. Tried equipping a bunch of Topple Resist, which helped (and used Shield with Shulk when I had him in), but it seemed like she'd reel off Big Bang / Another Attack one after another.
After a few rounds, I got the hang of keeping Sharla out of the Ether pit and things turned a bit better. Tried controlling Melia a bit which was helping, but I really felt I needed to control someone with a better healing move so I switched in Riki.
Worked out well enough, basically killing it with status / freezinate and Melia occasionally striking a blow.
Definitely the toughest fight for me. Before this, I had my levels up equal, or above most bosses.. and even when I didn't, I just walked over them. I think only Xord I had to fight more than once. It was good to have a challenge, but man, it was a pain.