Support NeoGAF

[Splash Wave]

I'm in utter shock at the disparity between how this game looks on my old Sony Wega CRT and my mediocre Samsung LCD. I mean, I knew it'd look better on the CRT, but I honestly don't think I can go back to playing it any other way. If this means lugging the stupid thing back to my apartment, then so be it. This game is beautiful.

edit: and with composite cables! the component inputs no longer work, apparently.

 

[Junie12]

Dammit I wanna fight these

Spoiler

Dinosaurs

so badly but they're just too strong

What's a good level to start fighting lvl 90 monsters? I'm thinking 60 but is that too weak?

 

[Owzers]

Need a pro-tip:

Do your party members use arts that aren't set to your bar?

 

[Firemind]

Dammit I wanna fight these

Spoiler

Dinosaurs

so badly but they're just too strong

What's a good level to start fighting lvl 90 monsters? I'm thinking 60 but is that too weak?

70-75? Depends on your team setup.

Need a pro-tip:

Do your party members use arts that aren't set to your bar?

No. I recommend ditching the art that halves Shulk's HP if you aren't playing as Shulk, because the AI is kind of dumb with using it.

 

[Elfforkusu]

Heh, this junior seems to be pretty high up on the Xenoblade defense force.

The bottom line is this: the "tutorial" is basically an in-game instruction manual. That's bad design. Did you listen to the Irrational Behavior podcast in which Ken Levine and Todd Howard discuss their goals with modern tutorial systems? They both hated how in most old games (especially RPG's) you fired the game up only to be slapped with a stat screen asking you to pick your attributes. Attributes that mean absolutely nothing to you, unless you read the instruction manual. Games have come a long way since then and there's a reason for that: you don't want people to feel like KevinCow and give up on your game fore even getting to the meat of it. You don't want the barrier of entry to be high. Now obviously Xenoblade's shit is a hell of a lot better than the RPG's of old, but it's still extremely basic. The devs just throw a bunch of information on the screen and tell you to go at it. It's a cop-out. It's lazy design. That's just the way it is. I'm not sure why you are so offended.

It would be hard for me to disagree with this more.

I would love if all games could explain, Nintendo/Valve style, all their game mechanics in a self-evident way. But by doing that you've now limited the ways a game can begin. By that book of game design, the only way to begin a game with a climactic battle (the way Xenoblade does) is to either have a trivial control scheme (which Xenoblade does not) or make the climactic battle non-interactive.

Relying on the tutorials to teach the player is a product of prioritizing story in the game. Modern control schemes are too complex for a silver-bullet solution.

 

[Jokeropia]

Dammit I wanna fight these

Spoiler

Dinosaurs

so badly but they're just too strong

What's a good level to start fighting lvl 90 monsters? I'm thinking 60 but is that too weak?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVJ3wErmXuo

 

[Rebel Leader]

What is the highest level monster in xenoblade?

No name please, I would just like the level number.

 

[Firemind]

120

 

[EvilMario]

Dammit I wanna fight these

Spoiler

Dinosaurs

so badly but they're just too strong

What's a good level to start fighting lvl 90 monsters? I'm thinking 60 but is that too weak?

Just try it out and see how you do. If you're missing a lot, try to up your Agility (usually via item slot gems), and see if it helps. 60 is probably way too low though.

 

[bubnbob]

What is the highest level monster in xenoblade?

No name please, I would just like the level number.

120

 

[Zornica]

Dammit I wanna fight these

Spoiler

Dinosaurs

so badly but they're just too strong

What's a good level to start fighting lvl 90 monsters? I'm thinking 60 but is that too weak?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVJ3wErmXuo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqpdJg4eJxg

 

[Jokeropia]

Hahaha, holy shit.

 

[KevinCow]

Yeah, fuck you, spiders. What do you have against my infinite health? Nothing, that's what. You can't do shit against my infinite health.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Yeah, fuck you, spiders. What do you have against my infinite health? Nothing, that's what. You can't do shit against my infinite health.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2RRnk63ZO4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[TDLink]

that's a very dangerous conclusion to have, because it leads people to depend on sharla too much. the reason why everything becomes easier at that point is, as you said, you got a full party now, but it's not due to your new healer. It's really important to emphasize that, as most stick with shulk/reyn/sharla simply because they are afraid to change any of them out, thus hindering themselfs in the long run.
The damage dealer - tank - healer triangle may be fine for many, but it is far from the best team and experience possible imho.

I did not intend to imply that Sharla is essential. I am definitely in the camp that thinks she isn't all that amazing. I was just saying she is the third character you get and she happens to have a heal that is better than Shulk's dinky light heal art. I don't think a dedicated healer is necessary at all though. At least 3 other characters in the game have good heal spells too that can handle the entire group to some extent and there are also skills that let you heal off your own attacks/other stuff. I was just saying early on the going is rough without a good heal and a full party.

Fucking exactly.

I now understand how to do a topple thanks to this thread, but I still don't understand exactly what it is. It's something I use to beat the robots, but is that all it's good for? Is it a tactic I should use elsewhere? Does it do something else besides let me damage robots?

The game pops up all this information, and it's not that I don't read it, it's that I don't know what the hell any of it is talking about. I don't understand it. It's talking about systems I haven't experienced yet, and not really giving me any idea how or when to use them.

It explains pretty clearly what Topple does and that it is usable on almost everything. Even if you don't read the in-game tutorial, like that Pez guy said on the last page you should at least know what the word Topple actually means. In-game it does exactly what the definition would imply...it forces the enemy to fall over. This allows you to attack them for more damage. The terminology in general is not some made up voodoo language. You BREAK the opponent's defense in order to TOPPLE them and then you can also DAZE them to keep them toppled longer. It's a pretty simple concept.

Yeah, fuck you, spiders. What do you have against my infinite health? Nothing, that's what. You can't do shit against my infinite health.

I would argue that cheating the game like that instead of properly learning its fundamentals will just lead to you being bored with it eventually due to lack of any challenge. But you seem to be having a bad experience anyways so I suppose play how you like. Posts like yours are just really disappointing.

 

[Rebel Leader]

My component cables were shipped =D.
Yay

My first ever Amazon purchase...
--

They are the $5 ones posted earlier in the thread

 

[flyover]

Yeah, fuck you, spiders. What do you have against my infinite health? Nothing, that's what. You can't do shit against my infinite health.

Hope you wind up enjoying the game. I remember the thread you started a while back on whether or not challenge was an essential component for enjoying games. For people who are happy being invincible and just having a sort of "guided tour" experience through games, Xenoblade is probably a good pick.

I loved the combat system (and just about everything else) and thought the tutorials were fine. But if they don't click with you, they don't. Good for you for finding another way to experience this (excellent) game.

 

[PezDispenser]

Heh, this junior seems to be pretty high up on the Xenoblade defense force.

The bottom line is this: the "tutorial" is basically an in-game instruction manual. That's bad design. Did you listen to the Irrational Behavior podcast in which Ken Levine and Todd Howard discuss their goals with modern tutorial systems? They both hated how in most old games (especially RPG's) you fired the game up only to be slapped with a stat screen asking you to pick your attributes. Attributes that mean absolutely nothing to you, unless you read the instruction manual. Games have come a long way since then and there's a reason for that: you don't want people to feel like KevinCow and give up on your game fore even getting to the meat of it. You don't want the barrier of entry to be high. Now obviously Xenoblade's shit is a hell of a lot better than the RPG's of old, but it's still extremely basic. The devs just throw a bunch of information on the screen and tell you to go at it. It's a cop-out. It's lazy design. That's just the way it is. I'm not sure why you are so offended.

OH WOW KEN LEVINE AND TODD HOWARD SAID THAT!? IT MUST BE UNIVERSALLY TRUE THEN, LET US ALL BOW TO KEN AND HOWARD.

Sorry to disagree with the infallible almighties themselves, but having in-game text tutorials is NOT a -universally- bad design choice. That's like saying wikipedia is terribly designed because we have youtube now, and they couldve just showed us all that information in a simple video. I mean, get with the times, wikipedia.

I don't give a shit if Levine and Howard want to use tutorial sequences in their games, my point was that Xenoblade's gameplay is a little too complex for that approach to really make sense. You'd need to clog the first half of the game with hours and hours of tutorials, as opposed to simply giving the player the option of quickly pulling up a screen to referesh himself on something he might not completely understand. And what are you going on about with the stats? Do you really have no clue what 'strength' might mean? How about 'defense'? Yeah, I mean, that could be anything. Most games these days have detailed descriptions of what each stat affects anyway, but even if they didn't, it really doesn't take too much thinking or reasoning to at least develop a rough idea of what they do. But, I guess that's a problem for people who need Ken Levine and Todd Howard to do all their thinking for them.

And for the record, I think Xenoblade is generally overhyped, but my problems lie mostly with the brain-dead story and annoying character quips that you can't turn off. The fighting is the game's strong suit imo.

And also for the record, based on what I've read here, if I made a game and KevinCow didn't quit a few hours in out of pure frustration, I would consider myself an utter failure.

 

[Liferebooted]

So I'm about 12 hours in, not really doing side quests as theyre poorly designed. Anyways every time I see an epic scene all I do is think " wow this would have looked so great on a real console." =\

 

[anaron]

I honestly don't understand the troubles people have with the battle system this early on. Level up and power up your arts, jesus.

So I'm about 12 hours in, not really doing side quests as theyre poorly designed. Anyways every time I see an epic scene all I do is think " wow this would have looked so great on a real console." =\

It wouldn't exist on what you consider a "real" console so it's pointless to consider otherwise.

 

[Aeana]

So I'm about 12 hours in, not really doing side quests as theyre poorly designed. Anyways every time I see an epic scene all I do is think " wow this would have looked so great on a real console." =\

And it would have looked even better than that on a PC.

Spoiler

lol "real console"

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

enjoying the game a lot so far. the graphics are a bit rough around the edges but it's not an eyesore like RE4 wii or some of the other games on the system.

obviously this would've been best as an HD release but the visuals here are still very good. loving the gameplay though!

 

[Bisnic]

So I'm about 12 hours in, not really doing side quests as theyre poorly designed. Anyways every time I see an epic scene all I do is think " wow this would have looked so great on a real console." =\

And the Wii is not a "real" console because...?

 

[Kandrick]

So I'm about 12 hours in, not really doing side quests as theyre poorly designed. Anyways every time I see an epic scene all I do is think " wow this would have looked so great on a real console." =\

The Wii looks pretty real to me.

 

[Baller. PhD]

OH WOW KEN LEVINE AND TODD HOWARD SAID THAT!? IT MUST BE UNIVERSALLY TRUE THEN, LET US ALL BOW TO KEN AND HOWARD.

Sorry to disagree with the infallible almighties themselves, but having in-game text tutorials is NOT a -universally- bad design choice. That's like saying wikipedia is terribly designed because we have youtube now, and they couldve just showed us all that information in a simple video. I mean, get with the times, wikipedia.

I don't give a shit if Levine and Howard want to use tutorial sequences in their games, my point was that Xenoblade's gameplay is a little too complex for that approach to really make sense. You'd need to clog the first half of the game with hours and hours of tutorials, as opposed to simply giving the player the option of quickly pulling up a screen to referesh himself on something he might not completely understand. And what are you going on about with the stats? Do you really have no clue what 'strength' might mean? How about 'defense'? Yeah, I mean, that could be anything. Most games these days have detailed descriptions of what each stat affects anyway, but even if they didn't, it really doesn't take too much thinking or reasoning to at least develop a rough idea of what they do. But, I guess that's a problem for people who need Ken Levine and Todd Howard to do all their thinking for them.

And for the record, I think Xenoblade is generally overhyped, but my problems lie mostly with the brain-dead story and annoying character quips that you can't turn off. The fighting is the game's strong suit imo.

And also for the record, based on what I've read here, if I made a game and KevinCow didn't quit a few hours in out of pure frustration, I would consider myself an utter failure.

With the stats, I wasn't talking about this game, I was making a point that forcing you to read a game manual was extremely common and old school RPG's, and we've moved on since then. You're right, Xenoblade would need to stretch the tutorial out a bit if the text tutorials weren't available. That would be better. This game throws way too much information at you way too fast. The first several hours consisted of me marveling at the beauty of the environments... and then reading a bunch of tutorials over and over again to try and make sense of it all. That wasn't fun. It was necessary to come to terms with the combat, but it wasn't fun. The combat mechanics could have been spread out over time. No one said a tutorial sequence had to be contained in a small area, or had to be boring. The game could have simply spread out the introduction of different mechanics, making them available a bit further on in the main quest and better explaining them then. Dunban could have toppled that mechon himself and then Reyn could have instructed Shulk on how to do it on one of the boss fights on the Bionis knee. Shit like that.

I agree that the fighting is the game's strong suit. My issue lie with the introduction of those mechanics. Text dumps like that occur when devs don't want to come up with a better way to do it or are incapable of doing so. Given the quality of the rest of the game I'm inclined to think that Monolith simply didn't put that much thought into it.

 

[Elfforkusu]

So I'm about 12 hours in, not really doing side quests as theyre poorly designed. Anyways every time I see an epic scene all I do is think " wow this would have looked so great on a real console." =\

It would look even better on the PC, which is convenient because you can play it on the PC.

 

[SecretMoblin]

I agree that the fighting is the game's strong suit. My issue lie with the introduction of those mechanics. Text dumps like that occur when devs don't want to come up with a better way to do it or are incapable of doing so. Given the quality of the rest of the game I'm inclined to think that Monolith simply didn't put that much thought into it.

Though I generally agree with your overall point - the introduction of mechanics could be somewhat smoother - it's certainly not a "text dump". There are a few slides that have pictures and bullet points for each concept, and as most of the concepts are easily discerned through gameplay, there's not a lot that needs to be reread.

 

[Cloudy]

And the Wii is not a "real" console because...?

Cos it looks like hot shit on HDTVs. Why is this so hard for people to admit?

 

[anaron]

Cos it looks like hot shit on HDTVs. Why is this so hard for people to admit?

Ugh.

 

[Baller. PhD]

Ugh.

Facts are true whether or not you believe them!

Anyway, I finally got Xenoblade working on Dolphin and I'll never go back. Holy fucking shit the game is beautiful in HD. Jesus.

I have the audio problem though, and I'm not sure how to fix it on a Mac. Is there any info available on how to fix the problem without applying the Windows-only patch?

 

[Zornica]

And the Wii is not a "real" console because...?

probably because it doesn't cover its own shortcomings with fancy shaderstuff

I did not intend to imply that Sharla is essential. I am definitely in the camp that thinks she isn't all that amazing. I was just saying she is the third character you get and she happens to have a heal that is better than Shulk's dinky light heal art. I don't think a dedicated healer is necessary at all though. At least 3 other characters in the game have good heal spells too that can handle the entire group to some extent and there are also skills that let you heal off your own attacks/other stuff. I was just saying early on the going is rough without a good heal and a full party.

I am sorry for my phrasing, I see how it could be interpreted in that way. What I meant to do was to underline the fact (again) that the game brainwashes you into thinking you would need a healer, a conclusion most people would make after the first ~5 hours with sharla - because she makes everything easier. And as I see it, thats a somewhat serious problem that can't be pointed out enough to newcomers.
I hope it's clearer now, sry again if you understood it the wrong way.

 

[Cloudy]

Kind of OT question. Can the new model wii be used with the stand? I see some bumps there for padding but I don't trust it not to topple over w/o a stand lol

 

[Aeana]

Cos it looks like hot shit on HDTVs. Why is this so hard for people to admit?

I don't think anybody is saying otherwise, but what does that have to do with whether something is a "real" console or not? Does that mean the 360 and PS3 are the very first "real consoles" ever?

360 and PS3 games don't display at my TV's native resolution in general, either, and so the image is blurrier than it would be if I were getting a 1080p image. So next generation when 1080p (hopefully) becomes the norm, will those then be the real consoles and WiiU which will probably display 720p now not be a "real console" either despite being similar to the PS3 and 360?

 

[johnsmith]

People complaining about how poorly explained and complicated the systems are, I have a tip for you. Stay the hell away from Resonance of Fate. This game is as simple as Tetris compared to that.

 

[Cloudy]

I don't think anybody is saying otherwise, but what does that have to do with whether something is a "real" console or not? Does that mean the 360 and PS3 are the very first "real consoles" ever?

What some of you guys need to understand is that some of us got wiis to play this game. It's really jarring to go from 360/ps3 to....this. It's like playing games from last gen to be honest!

Someone who's been playing wii from day one won't understand but it is a BIG DEAL for us newbies and it really takes away from such a great game. I spent hours on Friday messing with settings on 2 different tvs till I gave up. I like the game so much I'm thinking of how to get a cheap SDTV to play on lol

 

[Poyunch]

Set the language to Japanese because the dub felt kind of shoddy. Am I missing out? Should I go back to English.

Spoiler

Also I still can't accept how ugly the characters look even after following this game since the announcement. But I digress, I don't want to be a sourpuss.

 

[Aeana]

Set the language to Japanese because the dub felt kind of shoddy. Am I missing out? Should I go back to English?

Yes. The dub is wonderful.

 

[flyover]

...What I meant to do was to underline the fact (again) that the game brainwashes you into thinking you would need a healer...

It's hard to shake that feeling at first, isn't it? Going into RPG boss battles with no typical healer (and no potions) can feel wrong, until you retrain yourself.

 

[Cloudy]

Set the language to Japanese because the dub felt kind of shoddy. Am I missing out? Should I go back to English?

The English VA is growing on me but I'd have liked some US voice acting. It's hard to understand some of the things they say at times lol

PS: Does Fiora's grunting when she jumps (if she's the party leader) really bug anyone else? lol

 

[Evlar]

What some of you guys need to understand is that some of us got wiis to play this game. It's really jarring to go from 360/ps3 to....this. It's like playing games from last gen to be honest!

Someone who's been playing wii from day one won't understand but it is a BIG DEAL for us newbies and it really takes away from such a great game. I spent hours on Friday messing with settings on 2 different tvs till I gave up. I like the game so much I'm thinking of how to get a cheap SDTV to play on lol

Unless you did not play any console prior to the 360, or have your memory overwritten Total Recall-style every five years, you probably DO know what 480p feed looks like.

 

[Poyunch]

Yes. The dub is wonderful.

Mmmmmmmm fine. I'll try to give it a shot. Also does anyone know Fiora's/Fiorung's Japanese VA. She sounds familiar.

The English VA is growing on me but I'd have liked some US voice acting. It's hard to understand some of the things they say at times lol

I feel bad for feeling this too. I thought I would find it charming but it's kind of distracting.

 

[flyover]

What some of you guys need to understand is that some of us got wiis to play this game. It's really jarring to go from 360/ps3 to....this. It's like playing games from last gen to be honest!

Someone who's been playing wii from day one won't understand but it is a BIG DEAL for us newbies and it really takes away from such a great game. I spent hours on Friday messing with settings on 2 different tvs till I gave up. I like the game so much I'm thinking of how to get a cheap SDTV to play on lol

Xenoblade was my first Wii game, but I think the art direction more than made up for the console's relative graphical shortcomings. After a while -- not even too long -- I became blind to any issues. (Getting a component cable didn't hurt, either. Difference between that and composite is amazing.)

Any console that makes it possible/affordable for a game like this to get made is real enough for me.

 

[Zekes!]

Set the language to Japanese because the dub felt kind of shoddy. Am I missing out? Should I go back to English.

The dub is awesome

 

[raven777]

Played about 8 hours....absolutely loving it now. The battle is a bit challenging, but extremely fun. I feel bad skipping over a lot of quests in colony 9 to move to next part, so I might go back later to do some unfinished quests.

Should I buy all the equipment/arts book when they sell them? or do I get same/better ones during the battle?

And a question about boss battle visions. When there is a vision of my ally getting attacked, I can go to the ally and press b to warn them, and perhaps do defensive moves. But I was wondering what I should do when the vision says its attacking me(shulk) He doesn't have any defensive move other than the monado shield thing, so am I suppose to use that? what if its in charging, is there anything else I can actually do?

 

[Aeana]

Mmmmmmmm fine. I'll try to give it a shot. Also does anyone know Fiora's/Fiorung's Japanese VA. She sounds familiar.



I feel bad for feeling this too. I thought I would find it charming but it's kind of distracting.

Eri Nakao.

 

[Rebel Leader]

The dub is awesome

Form someone who prefers watching anime with Japanese dub..... I have to agree

 

[Papercuts]

I think this is the game that will finally make me splurge on component cables and a classic controller. I've only played about 2 hours and accomplished nothing, but there's some ugly ass stuff that seems to be the composite cables. Wii controls seem fine, but the camera seems to be one that you use a ton, so I'd rather have better control on that.

 

[Cloudy]

Unless you did not play any console prior to the 360, or have your memory overwritten Total Recall-style every five years, you probably DO know what 480p feed looks like.

That's great but I haven't played anything besides ps3/360 since what, 2005? Even the ps2 games I've played since then were upscaled via ps3.

Sorry if I'm disappointed that a game released in 2012 looks worse than anything (non-handheld) I've played in SEVEN years!

 

[Zekes!]

I think this is the game that will finally make me splurge on component cables and a classic controller. I've only played about 2 hours and accomplished nothing, but there's some ugly ass stuff that seems to be the composite cables. Wii controls seem fine, but the camera seems to be one that you use a ton, so I'd rather have better control on that.

People keep saying that but being able to select arts easily while moving makes me prefer the Wiimote controls

 

[Rebel Leader]

I think this is the game that will finally make me splurge on component cables and a classic controller. I've only played about 2 hours and accomplished nothing, but there's some ugly ass stuff that seems to be the composite cables. Wii controls seem fine, but the camera seems to be one that you use a ton, so I'd rather have better control on that.

My component cables should be here by Wednesday (yay Amazon prime trial) $5.25

I use CCpro. I never even tried nunchuck because I never had a problem selecting arts on CCpro