Xenosaga is DOOMED! ALL OVER!
- Thread starter duckroll
- Start date
This is what happened I suspect, Episode 2 actually wasn't greenlighted until the first game did better than expected here. Episode 3 is probably in limbo until we see how the 2nd does here also.Miburou said:
Similarly, I think Tales of Symhponia's western sales have "saved" it somewhat in Namco's eyes too, it's their 2nd best selling game in America this year. Things are looking better for another Tales game on a Nintendo console at least.
Legal Step
Member
This funny...I am laughing.
Also I mock you and your value system.
Also I mock you and your value system.
Kabuki Waq
Member
ToxicAdam said:
no its not worth it at ALL. crappy B movie cut scenes mixed with crappy RPG gameplay.
gamergirly
Member
duckroll said:
Even so, 1 million copies sold for Xenosaga is alot of profit for Monolith especially when I dont remember seeing heavy advertisements for it. Any expensive undergoing was the in house development. They still made a heck of alot of money in any case
Miburou said:
If XS Ep1 was not considered a failure by Namco, why would they have removed all key staff from Ep1 and made the mess they did out of XS Ep2? So much so that the original creators want nothing to do with the series any longer now? Really now, just think a little. If it was considered something successful you would think they would leave it alone like Tales Studio! :lol
gamergirly said:
Then you really gotta ask yourself, why did Namco give XS the shove? If it really made a TON of money and they thought the formula worked would they fuck it up and intervene so much that the original creators would want nothing to do with it any longer?
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen
Banned
I've seen a budget figure of $10 million for XS episode 1. If that's accurate I suspect the project turned a profit considering worldwide sales, even if Namco's hopes for it weren't realized. Episode 2 has a lower budget so it doesn't need to sell as much.
Projects are mismanaged or over-managed all the time, regardless of whether or not higher-ups see them as "successful". Sometimes people want to be associated with success, and they figure the best way to do that is make a bunch of changes and decisions and try to retool or improve.duckroll said:
Prince of Space
Banned
Wow, that sucks. Say what you will about Xenogears (and I have, believe me), but for the most part, it did have an interesting story to tell. And I agree with Bebpo about Ep. I fleshing the story and characters out better. Hell, Ziggy's story was more interesting to me than Shion's or MOMO's or whomever. Shame they're both gone, and that does pretty much mean this series is over...
duckroll said:
There could be several other reasons. Like for example the game going over budget, taking more time than originally thought, internal disputes between Namco and the producer/director, criticism towards the games character designs, cut-scene length, etc. despite the game selling over a million.
I don't know why they removed the staff (or really care), but I thought Namco openly said the game was a failure, and now I know they didn't.
Gaia Theory
Member
Duckroll - you can claim to have a lot of knowledge about the XS series, but I'm not so sure you should be claiming to have insight as to why development staff left.
There are many possibilities. Have you ever thought that, perhaps, Takahashi wanted to move on? Maybe he wasn't happy with how his 'beloved' project was turning out. Maybe he didn't like the direction he had taken the series. Maybe it wasn't living up to his standards?
Mitsuda is one of the most sought after composers, he could be very busy and he might have chosen not to work on the series after Takahashi left - like T3, without Cameron, Linda Hamilton and Furlong opted not to get paid. They moved on of their own free will.
Demonizing Namco for continuing a series that has sold well for them, and claiming that Namco is responsible for parts of the development staff leaving isn't fair to the company or the people involved. We have no idea why they left. Maybe it was a little bit of pressure from Namco AND the fact that they weren't happy with their creation. Who knows? We certainly do not.
There are many possibilities. Have you ever thought that, perhaps, Takahashi wanted to move on? Maybe he wasn't happy with how his 'beloved' project was turning out. Maybe he didn't like the direction he had taken the series. Maybe it wasn't living up to his standards?
Mitsuda is one of the most sought after composers, he could be very busy and he might have chosen not to work on the series after Takahashi left - like T3, without Cameron, Linda Hamilton and Furlong opted not to get paid. They moved on of their own free will.
Demonizing Namco for continuing a series that has sold well for them, and claiming that Namco is responsible for parts of the development staff leaving isn't fair to the company or the people involved. We have no idea why they left. Maybe it was a little bit of pressure from Namco AND the fact that they weren't happy with their creation. Who knows? We certainly do not.
gamergirly
Member
duckroll said:
First we must think about what does that mean. Does it mean that they are cutting costs bc they have 4 other games to develop before the whole "prelude" is done? Does it mean that they are going to take huge financial risks for ONE game in the series when they still have several more to finish afterwards? I dont think so.
As for what is so messed up with the 2nd episode, if any of these people's critisms about the first are an indication, then Ep 2 is just continuing what I liked so much about the 1st one.
Gaia Theory said:
Why not? We do know quite a bit.
Takahashi wanted to move on to what? Takahashi was as passionate about Xenosaga as Yu Suzuki was about Shenmue. Obviously things didn't turn out well. Aside from your first option, the remaining 3 options are all negatives that support what's happening so yeah, but wait you're mistaken, Takahashi didn't leave!
Mitsuda has posted before on his diary that he would have loved to compose Xenosaga Ep2 but he is unable to due to Monolithsoft. It is left unclear if they simply did not ask him or if he has a disagreement with them. There's no speculation here, he just wasn't busy oh and Takahashi didn't leave!
Oh no I think you misunderstand. Takahashi did not LEAVE. Takahashi lost power at Monolithsoft. Who "left"? Kunihiko Tanaka, Yasunori Mitsuda, and now Soraya Saga. Out of these, only Soraya Saga can be said to have left of her own free will if even that.
Maybe I should explain the XS situation to you before you think that we're SPECULATING on anything. What happened is Takahashi and his wife Soraya Saga writes the design plans and screenplays on Xenosaga and then Takahashi directs the game using his key staff from Xenogears to create the same feel, worldview and atmosphere. XS Ep1 is crafted with love and even featured an awesome Limited Edition Box version with an excellent action figure, a pretty nifty keychain, a designs book and a binder.
After XS Ep1 "flopped" in Japan, and I say flop not as a speculation but as a QUOTE from a Dengeki interview with the XS staff that said "Yes the sales have been disappointing, but we promise we will not forget the fans.", the entire Xenosaga momentum DIED. We're talking about a game series that was planned to be out once every year for 6 years and this was mentioned in a press release. The game had tons of advertising and whatnot in Japan. After it failed to meet sales expectation the entire engine died.
After XS Ep1 sold rather well in the US, eventually they announced a fan conference to announce Ep2. What was announced was that Takahashi would be taking on a mor "advisery" role in Ep2 and would not be directing. I'll give it to you that at this point if we say he was demoted because of Ep1 we would be speculating, he could have just wanted fresh blood to try their hand at the game... right? But then, out of the blue, the character designer and the composer are changed! In fact, there isn't even a "character designer" credited on XS Ep2, and everyone suddenly looks hideous compared to the first game. The composers are different too even though Mitsuda said he would like to return! I wonder why, but hey I guess there's no speculation allowed, it can't be Namco can it? Nope. After all, it could just be Takahashi trying a new direction, I mean I'm sure he's still in-charge of the story and the screenplay at least, and advising the team so what could go wrong?
Fast-forward a few months, Xenosaga Freaks is released, a series of minigames and graphical adventure comedies packed with a XS Ep2 demo. It's obvious Namco is milking the series now and making it less serious than it should be. But no harm done, it's all in good fun, XS Ep2 will NOT disappoint! Fast-forward a few more months. XS Ep2 is released. It sucks donkey balls. It's 20 hours long. The game feels nothing like XS Ep1. The battle engine is retardedly slow. There are NO minigames. The writing stinks. Takahashi isn't even created with the actual screenplay. The cutscenes feel far more actiony and the new characters have zero development. The project screams low-budget rush-out-of-the-door development. The characters are still fucking ugly. To add insult to injury, the even MORE expensive Limited Edition Box for XS Ep2 features what can only be described as a figure that was DELIBERATELY made disgustingly ugly. At this point, Soraya Saga is already bitching about it on her blog. She updates her work profile info frequently to reflect how little she and Takahashi had to do with the game. Even before the game is out she specifies that the screenplay is "heavily adapted" by Monolithsoft. So we're not assuming anymore, one of the two key persons responsible for what the series is is telling us herself "it was taken out of my hands".
Moving right along, XS Ep2 flops terribly in Japan, and Monolithsoft announces XS Pied Piper. A game they bill as WRITTEN BY ORIGINAL CREATOR TETSUYA TAKAHASHI. Wow! But wait, it's a fucking cellphone game. I guess they don't want to give him much budget. Anyway the game supposedly has awesome writing and so forth. Soraya Saga at this point updates her blog again to mention that she and Takahashi worked on Pied Piper's original story and it was only "mildly adapted" by Monolithsoft. Then as the final chapter is about to be released, she updates with specific scenes Monolithsoft added that weren't in the original script. These are consistant with some pretty random WTF events in XS Ep2 which made fans pretty pissed because of their poor implementation and writing.
Subsequently Soraya Saga declares that she has QUIT the series, and as all fans will notice, there's no "Official Designs Materials" book like there was for Episode 1. Why? Because books like that are usually put together by the core development team based on how much more they have to offer to fans from working on the project. Obviously there was no love at all in XS Ep2, this is not speculation, this is from reading how jaded and angry the creators are at Namco.
So I don't know, you tell me, how much is guesswork and how much is Namco just fucking with us?
Edit: For general knowledge, Tetsuya Takahashi owns a 2% stake in Monolithsoft, while Namco owns a 94.6% stake. So technically he can't be "fired" as he is a shareholder. But as it stands now, he has no more power at the company like he once did when XS first started.
duckroll, given that you have a pretty good grasp of Takahashi and Monolith Soft do you know who the company is made up of primairily and what they were responsible for? I've heard it's specifically staff from Square (mostly Xenogears and Chrono Cross) and Wolfteam/tri-Ace (Tales, Star Ocean, Valkyrie Profile). What's the difference between the Xenosaga and Baten Kaitos teams?
jarrod said:
As far as Monolithsoft having members from Wolfteam/Tri-ace I call bullshit on this one(But there's an explaination). It's true that most of the staff that left Square to form Monolithsoft worked on XG and CC.
Monolithsoft's president is Hirohide Sugiura. He was a producer at Square (previously at Ascii and Konami) that decided to take Takahashi's Xeno project to Namco to start a new studio (in retrospect, what a fucking bad idea) called Monolithsoft. He owns 2% of Monolithsoft, as does Takahashi. He's also the producer of all the games so far (Producer for XS Ep1, Executive Producer on Baten Kaitos and XS Ep2).
As far as the Square to Monolithsoft exodus is concerned: Kou Arai (XG art design), Yasunori Mitsuda (XG/CT/CC composer), Kunihiko Tanaka (XG char design), Junya Ishigaki (XG mech design), Yasuyuki Honne (XG/CC art director), Norihiro Takami (CC CG director) all worked on XS Ep1 along with Takahashi and his wife. Mitsuda, Tanaka and Ishigaki are all freelancers so I guess it doesn't count that they "moved" to Monolithsoft, but they definitely showed their support in Ep1. The rest are definitely Monolithsoft staff, with Kou Arai moving up to direct XS Ep2.
Baten Kaitos on the other hand was developed by Monolithsoft with asistance from Tri-Cresendo, which is Motoi Sakuraba's sound house branch-out from Tri-ace which continues to support them, kinda like how Uematsu went freelance I guess. The directors on Baten Kaitos were Hiroya Hatsushiba (Tri-ace's favorite Sound Director, he even worked on SO3) from Tri-Cresendo and Yasuyuki Honne from Monolithsoft. They managed to get Masato Kato (CT writer/CC director/writer) to write the scenerio for Baten Kaitos since he's freelance now, and Motoi Sakuraba composed hence sealing the "tri-ace flavor". It's as far as I know the ONLY game that Tri-Cresendo did actual DESIGN for instead of just sound/music directing/programming. I guess it not selling well at all either didn't help things. Seems to be a recurring theme with Monolithsoft.
Miburou said:
Not entirely sure. I kinda remember this myself, but as far as I've been checking the site in the past few years it's been like this. Maybe it was just a misconception and they always each owned 1.5 million shares each out of 750 million total shares. Or maybe Namco bought back some when we weren't looking, but I really don't want to speculate on that.
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen
Banned
There are also some number of former Front Mission staff at Monolith. I think FM3's event director was also the event director of XS ep II and one of the main event planners on XS ep I.
Guess I was the only one who thought the character designs in XS Ep2 were an improvement.
I was no fan of XG or XS, but it's always sad to hear a creative person/team has been screwed out of their dream project. Maybe they'll be able to get what they wanted out of the anime series, which has always seemed like the more proper medium for their story to begin with. If you're hitting me with hour long cutscenes, obviously you're not too concerned about the player being part of the story.
It'll be interesting to see where Namco goes with this. If they just continue to trudge on without the original creative team, XS could turn out to be a trainwreck of astounding proportions. Then again, if they pull the plug, where else will gamers get their regular dose of 12-year-old android panty shots? The mind reels.
I was no fan of XG or XS, but it's always sad to hear a creative person/team has been screwed out of their dream project. Maybe they'll be able to get what they wanted out of the anime series, which has always seemed like the more proper medium for their story to begin with. If you're hitting me with hour long cutscenes, obviously you're not too concerned about the player being part of the story.
It'll be interesting to see where Namco goes with this. If they just continue to trudge on without the original creative team, XS could turn out to be a trainwreck of astounding proportions. Then again, if they pull the plug, where else will gamers get their regular dose of 12-year-old android panty shots? The mind reels.
Drinky Crow
Banned
Sell your unqualified literary affections; it's all over.
(I'm a mod. I can get away with it. Ha ha.)
(I'm a mod. I can get away with it. Ha ha.)
i think it's entirely likely that the people who made key decisions on XS1 -- and takahashi especially -- brought this on themselves. like john said, he shouldn't have been given the authority, but it was his mistake for using it poorly.
they're trying to expand appeal for the series in the territory where it vastly outsold the original market. do these decisions result in a raw deal for takahashi and clio saga? yeah. do they result in a game that wasn't what it could have been? yeah. but is it something they're doing to be malicious and mean? nope.
i still have hope that episode III could be good ... because if episode II is popular in the US, it will happen. and given that XSII was obviously a rush job, since it wasn't originally going to be made, the XS3 project could have a more reasonable schedule, more talented staff... whether it fits into the Original Grand Vision for xenosaga doesn't matter much to me at the moment... i just like cool RPGs.
IYO. i think the new character designs are a vast improvement. and i love anime. i was never crazy about kunihiko tanaka (i think the designs for XG are just plain mediocre, even bad sometimes -- XS was a big improvement.) but this was obviously done now that XS is doing better in the west than in japan.duckroll said:
they never should have gone with the london philharmonic for the first game. what a colossal mistake. i can only imagine how expensive that was, especially with the yen vs. the pound.duckroll said:
oh, come on. the battles are actually speedier than the first game becuase there's less sitting through animations. =P the whole game is slow compared to an average RPG, but so was the original.duckroll said:
is that a bad thing? i guess, if you're obssessed with the "original vision" of xenosaga (i'm not.)duckroll said:
for good or for ill, namco isn't "fucking with" fans. they're a company making business decisions. they think that takahashi fucked up on XS1 (whether you think that way, they're looking at it from a vastly different perspective than you are.)duckroll said:
they're trying to expand appeal for the series in the territory where it vastly outsold the original market. do these decisions result in a raw deal for takahashi and clio saga? yeah. do they result in a game that wasn't what it could have been? yeah. but is it something they're doing to be malicious and mean? nope.
i still have hope that episode III could be good ... because if episode II is popular in the US, it will happen. and given that XSII was obviously a rush job, since it wasn't originally going to be made, the XS3 project could have a more reasonable schedule, more talented staff... whether it fits into the Original Grand Vision for xenosaga doesn't matter much to me at the moment... i just like cool RPGs.
Regarding the action orientated cutscenes
I think it's less to do with the original vision and more to do with the cutscenes going from respectable sci-fi to MOMO IS DRIVING A CAR HIGHWAY CHASE SCENE >_< >_<
It's like going from David Mamet -> Joel Schumacher. You're gonna lose the audience who liked the original and not gain much of an audience with the sequel.
ferricide said:
I think it's less to do with the original vision and more to do with the cutscenes going from respectable sci-fi to MOMO IS DRIVING A CAR HIGHWAY CHASE SCENE >_< >_<
It's like going from David Mamet -> Joel Schumacher. You're gonna lose the audience who liked the original and not gain much of an audience with the sequel.
Haha that was hialariously awful.Bebpo said:
Anyways this is pretty terrible. I wont lie, I enjoyed Saga 1 a lot, I actually finished it and was thoroughly satisfied gameplay wise and story/character wise. From everything you and duckroll have said about Ep2 im not sure if I even want it. Such a shame. When this series was announced it was pretty much dubbed the new star wars of video games. Now look where its sunk...
I definately anticipate whatever Takahashi and co. do next, Being pretty much kicked off the project you not only helped start but created is horrible....
And as Bebpo noted earlier in the thread, the XS1 OST is one of the few I still regularly listen to. The track arrangements on the 2nd edition are even better. Listening to it, I still cant believe how amazing some of the orchestral and choral work was, despite not being used in the best way in game. Impressive work, no doubt about it.....now lets not even talk about Ep2s OST :lol
Episode II isn't as bad as many of the haters have insisted. It's definitely not as "complete" as the first game, but some of these impressions make it sound like utter crap, of which I can assure you it is definitely not.
Fans of the first will probably dig it. But the third game had better be an improvement on many scales if they want the series to survive.
Fans of the first will probably dig it. But the third game had better be an improvement on many scales if they want the series to survive.
john tv said:
But that's the main problem with ep2. The one's who dislike it the most are also the ones who were the biggest fans of ep1. Going by all the Xeno-discussion at 2ch the Japanese fans seem to agree with this train of thought.
So say you had 100 people buy it:
50 liked ep1
50 hated ep1
Now ep2 comes out, out of the 50 people who hated it. Maybe 10% come back out of curiousity. So you have 55 people this time:
35 of the people who liked ep1 hate it.
2 of the 5 people who hated ep1 hate ep2.
Now you have 18 people out of the initial 100 who are geniunely interested in ep3.
The ones who will enjoy ep2 the most are the rpgs fans who didn't really care either way about ep1. But the people who really liked ep1 will feel cheated and pissed off, and the people who hated ep1 still won't find anything worth playing in ep2.
So yea...IMHO Namco completely fucked up by doing a full 180 change from everything that made up the original (which SOLD) :\
THE PEOPLE WHO PAY FOR IT - AKA NAMCOjett said:
and that's why takahashi is out on his ass. =) he has only himself to blame, though namco has only themselves to blame for letting him get away with murder on the first game. oh well. i'll hug my original soundtrack CDs. =)
well, there's your big problem. the hardcore otaku fans are typically so obsessive they'll be dissatisfied with something that deviates from their hopes and dreams for the series.. especially with this one, because it's the rather specific vision of a couple of people and it's starting to deviate from that. basically, what john is saying is if:Bebpo said:
(a) you enjoyed xenosaga episode I
(b) you do not have a copy of xenogears perfect works tattooed on your ass
then you will probably enjoy episode II. and he's right! i've played it -- he's right. it's not a laughable game. the new action-oriented cutscenes aren't stupid or poorly done. there's plenty of what makes xenosaga cool in xenosaga ep II, as well.
and he's also right when he says that episode III is going to have to be a heck of a lot better for the series to continue to be relevant. but given the potential success of episode III in the USA and reasonable time for planning, i think it may very well be.
i seriously don't know what you're talking about. MOMO is one of the big improvements in ep II, because i don't have to feel creepy about her being there anymore. she just looks like a 12 year old. like she should.Bebpo said:
Get the 2nd edition of the OST! The sequencing on the second disc (all real instrumentals and orchestral) is fantastic. Literally as if you were experiencing a huge sci fi epic on disc, the effect is better reproduced than the actual game sadly. Plus the new material and redone tracks are pretty damn good. Definately worth the price even if you already own the original CD.ferricide said:
Edit: is the perfect works book worth anything anymore? Been thinking about ebaying my copy.....
john tv said:
ferracide said:
I don't think I can agree with that. I think XS Ep2 is a terrible game, in fact if not for the very tiny bit of plot connection it has left from being Xenosaga, I would have tossed the game after the first disc. This isn't about being an otaku, it's about me honestly feeling that the game engines in XS Ep2 just suck ass. I've detailed before why I feel so. I seriously disliked SO3 for being a disappointing game yet I accept that some of the game is actually pretty fun yet I simply could not overlook the flaws in other areas to enjoy it myself. This is not the case in XS Ep2. Having finished the game I feel that it's a really shitty game in general.
I don't think it's very fair to start calling people out as "otakus" simply because they disagree with you ferracide. Or have you sunk even lower now? Could it be that you simply have bad taste? I'm not so sure! After all you hate Matsuno games, you dislike Valkyrie Profile, and now you're saying XS Ep2 isn't that bad? Having just played Suikoden 4, how can you possibly say that XS Ep2 is a good game? It shares many of the same issues, or are YOU the one who is simply willing to overlook many of XS Ep2's glaring flaws simply because "aw it's XS anyway, I hated the first one and anything that pisses off people that liked the first one can't be that bad, haw haw!". Hmmm?
well, that may be so. but a lot of what you complained about is esoteric fannish justifications. i'm not saying that you can't honestly feel the game sucks -- i'm just saying that there are lots of unfortunate real world reasons the game/series have made significant changes, and it's just typical fanboy whining to say stuff like "namco is fucking with us" when they're just trying to make some money off of it.duckroll said:
i think a lot of people who don't give a shit (or know anything about) stuff like xenogears perfect works and takahashi and clio saga, but who liked the first game, stand a good chance of enjoying the second. basically, americans. =) which is who it seems the game must have been made for, at least to a significant degree.
many of the complaints about this game struck me as hyperbole after actually playing it, which set off the "fanboy alarm bells" ringing. =) saying it's the "worst game of the year" is like the same shit that dude in the KH thread over yonder is trying to pull. a game can have flaws -- significant flaws -- but it doesn't necessarily come down like a house of cards based on them, if it has redeeming factors. whether or not you agree, they're there.duckroll said:
same here -- which is why i gave it a 7. =) that game was my biggest disappointment of 2004, but objectively it's not like it sucks.duckroll said:
yes, but i never said that matsuno games are bad. i simply find them bewilderingly unenjoyable. i think the design decisions matsuno makes approach a sort of badness, in that they're so arcane and exclusionary as to be really limiting the appeal of the game for people who don't think the same way he does. but i don't begrudge the fans, and i'll admit the games have a lot of quality in numerous aspects, particularly art direction because akihiko yoshida owns (or did, until FFXII.)duckroll said:
as for valkyrie profile, where did you get that impression? i've mentioned how much i like it here on numerous occasions, particularly in SO3 threads. =P i think it's one of the best games on the PS1.
XS ep II isn't that bad. there's just no way you can make me believe it now that i've played it. sure, it has some dumb and obvious flaws, and informed people (like us) who know (bits and pieces of) the behind-the-scenes story know why, but it also has a lot of good points. anyway, nothing further on that, because my review will hit soon enough and you can troll the EGM scores thread, if you're so inclined... =)
huh? i didn't hate the first one. check it out, i gave it an 89/100:duckroll said:
http://archive.gamespy.com/reviews/february03/xenosagaps2/
hah! even more amusingly, the first page has a VP allusion in the first subhed. =P
i would further state plainly that XSII doesn't have a lot of the same problems as suikoden IV. in fact, i'm hard pressed to think of any of the problems XSII and suikoden IV share. that's not to say that XSII does not has problems. i'll happily chat about them after the game comes out in the U.S.
ferricide said:
I agreed with what you said. But I think you should read my actual valid complaints about the game in earlier threads. I really don't feel I'm using esoteric fannish justifications when I'm giving actual advice on people looking to purchase it. What you have again failed to understand it that this thread is for me, bebpo and other XS fans to whine about Namco and to cry about the demise of XS as we know it. Yes this thread is entirely fannish in nature because everything else I have to say about XS Ep1 or XS Ep2 I have already said in earlier threads.
I would have to say it's pretty much the worst game I played in 2004. Mind you I don't go out looking for bad games to stockpile and play so I can build my list of "worst game of the year" at the end of every year, so what games I do buy every month I actually think will appeal to me and be good in their own right. In that aspect I sincerely feel XS Ep2 is the "worst game of 2004" for me, you don't have to agree since as a paid reviewer I'm sure you have suffered much worse. For the record I think KH was an excellent game that caters to the oldschool Disney fan still in me while making excellent use of Nomura's cuter kiddy designs of his own characters. In fact, any game that lets me beat on a 9 year old Tidus is A-OK in my book!
Fair enough, I can now respect that, since you have explained it.
Whoops sorry again, I guess I just lumped you mentalty into the "hates games I like, loves games I hate" section where quite a few less respectable gaffers are in. ^^;;
Well I think XS Ep2 *is* bad, but well, we can discuss this when the review is out. Again for the record, I don't TROLL about XS Ep2, I simply like to warn people that it's not what they might be expecting. If lowering their expectations so much that XS Ep2 is actually somewhat enjoyable in that limited expectation they have, well then great for them.
Huh? Sorry again but damnit stop owning me here! This is my thread! :lol
That'll be great, once it's actually out in the US I guess there'll be more people informed to discuss how good or bad the game is. But for now there's no reason to not let us whine here in this fan thread about the EVILS OF NAMCO! Honestly I don't give a shit if Namco wants to make money at this point, we just want our MOMOs! :lol
P.S. Wouldn't you agree that XS Ep2's disappointment as a mediocre game is far more obvious and substancial than SO3's disappointment in it's flawed aspect? Maybe we simply have different standards of judging a game but to be SO3 was pretty much the bottom of the barrel I can stomach from a professionally made JRPG on a current-gen console. XS Ep2 in comparison was untoleratable. There are worst games in existance sure but they're not games that implore me to play them.
i didn't read anything beyond bebpo's original review. didn't want to get too colored on games i know i'm going to be reviewing. so fair enough; i'm sure you've made your case about the nuts-and-bolts aspects of the game elsewhere.duckroll said:
fair enough as well.duckroll said:What you have again failed to understand it that this thread is for me, bebpo and other XS fans to whine about Namco and to cry about the demise of XS as we know it. Yes this thread is entirely fannish in nature because everything else I have to say about XS Ep1 or XS Ep2 I have already said in earlier threads.
try to imagine how traumatic it was to be excited about VS for a year or however long it was, and then finally get it home, play it, and completely hate it. i used to froth at the mouth when matsuno's name came up. =P admittedly, there's little that's more disappointing to me as an FFX fan than to find out he was working on FFXII (especially after E3, the demo not doing much to assuage my fears.) but i know why people like this games. so far, they just haven't been for me.duckroll said:Fair enough, I can now respect that, since you have explained it.
not really -- i'm not like a huge xenosaga fan, i just enjoyed the first game. i hated xenogears, actually, too. whereas VP gave me really high expectations for SO3, coupled with how awesome it looked until i actually played it. realistically, SO3 is a more solidly made game than XS2 but ... it's more annoying. to me, anyway.duckroll said:
JackFrost2012
Banned
ferracide said:
Ah I see. I guess being a big Xenosaga fan made XS Ep2 feel like a slap in the face pretty much for me.
JackFrost2012 said:
I thought you liked Matsuno! I can only blame that review of yours there on poisoned mushrooms, because clearly anyone who thinks FF9 is a better game than VP is not in the right frame of mind! :lol