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Xperia Z/ZL |OT| Experience the best of Sony in a smartphone

A

Asimov

Banned
I think sony has always had this problem. They release a ton of products.

Why don't they just on just a couple of products... like Samsung. Their two main phones, the Galaxy and Note are the main priority. Sony just release a lot of products and confuses regular users.
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
Asimov said:
I think sony has always had this problem. They release a ton of products.

Why don't they just on just a couple of products... like Samsung. Their two main phones, the Galaxy and Note are the main priority. Sony just release a lot of products and confuses regular users.
Click to expand...

yeah, i know what you mean. Samsung actually releases more Android handsets than Sony, but you know exactly what the flagships are and understand that they are the priority.
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
The Faceless Master said:
yeah, i know what you mean. Samsung actually releases more Android handsets than Sony, but you know exactly what the flagships are and understand that they are the priority.
Click to expand...

Yup. For all of the shit thrown at Samsung overusing the Galaxy brand they have very clearly defined flagships. GS4 is the H1 2013 flagship and the GNote3 is going to be the H2 flagship. With Sony they released Z/ZL together and split the market, now we have the Xperia A coming out with a smaller, worse screen but better specs in every other way, it just creates confusion for no reason. There is obviously room on the market for a small flagship, no Android manufacturer has a 4-4.3" phone with decent specs and the Xperia A should fill that gap in the market, not create confusion with the Xperia Z. Then you have the H2 flagship which is just going to anger the 8-9m people who bought the Xperia Z in the first half and put a question mark over the 2014 lineup as people won't know whether to get the first half phone or wait for the second half device.

Absolutely shocking strategy, it just feels like Sony Mobile have a bunch of concept devices and don't have anyone filtering what should and shouldn't make it to the market.
 
R

Radec

Member
Without look at the url, which one is the Z, One, S4 ?

Teddy_GS4-640x480.jpg

Teddy_HO-640x361.jpg

Teddy_Xperia-Z-640x480.jpg


Fix this shit Sony!

- - -

So this is how you open the back of the Z!
 
M

MeBecomingI

Member
The Sony smartphone strategy has always annoyed me. They spread their materials too thin across far too many phones which creates far too much confusion. I've always thought that Sony needs to focus on creating their version of the iPhone / Galaxy S. Make that one phone that becomes synonymous with the company best and continue to pump the majority of the resources into making it the best phone on the market. After, if they can work it in without sacrificing the quality or specifications of the main flagship, they can create a second major flagship and keep it in line with the way Samsung handles the Galaxy S and the Note. They can still pump out the cheaper, smaller phones that fill a different segment in the market but they wouldn't end up being much better than the flagship, like we are seeing with the Z and the A.

If anything, I think Sony needs to put in some incredible tech that no other phone has to really set itself apart. One thing that Samsung does well is have an OLED screen which they can market well and in the case of the S4, they can tout having an 8 core CPU in there. I hope Sony has had a taste of that with the success of having a high-end phone that is water resistant and that gets people talking and interested. Do that, but with more!

I'm honestly not that big a fan of Samsung phones themselves having been around them and used them (everyone in my family has an S3), but the company has done an incredible job with marketing and focusing resources into what is actually important to them. Sony still seems confused as to what they should be doing and I was hoping that we'd see a change in Sony when Kaz came around. Streamline SMC and stop pumping out stuff all the time that would just end up alienating a consumer to buying your stuff.

I had a hard time going for the ZL because I had heard about the rumoured specs of the Xperia A and it made it tough to justify upgrading now when I could just wait a few months and get the next one, but then what about waiting after that? I suppose that goes more towards the current direction of the mobile phone industry, but Sony is pretty bad for just not being able to settle with a specific phone and let that do the work. They are too slow and spread everything too thin.

That said, I am very happy with the ZL and I do think it is an incredibly good phone but it could stand to use a bit more resources behind it. They always seem one step behind everyone else and it just doesn't feel right. I just don't want to feel like I made an error in upgrading early if in a few months my phone is already going to be 'dated' by another new Xperia phone.
 
Z

Zaptruder

Banned
MeBecomingI said:
The Sony smartphone strategy has always annoyed me. They spread their materials too thin across far too many phones which creates far too much confusion. I've always thought that Sony needs to focus on creating their version of the iPhone / Galaxy S. Make that one phone that becomes synonymous with the company best and continue to pump the majority of the resources into making it the best phone on the market. After, if they can work it in without sacrificing the quality or specifications of the main flagship, they can create a second major flagship and keep it in line with the way Samsung handles the Galaxy S and the Note. They can still pump out the cheaper, smaller phones that fill a different segment in the market but they wouldn't end up being much better than the flagship, like we are seeing with the Z and the A.

If anything, I think Sony needs to put in some incredible tech that no other phone has to really set itself apart. One thing that Samsung does well is have an OLED screen which they can market well and in the case of the S4, they can tout having an 8 core CPU in there. I hope Sony has had a taste of that with the success of having a high-end phone that is water resistant and that gets people talking and interested. Do that, but with more!

I'm honestly not that big a fan of Samsung phones themselves having been around them and used them (everyone in my family has an S3), but the company has done an incredible job with marketing and focusing resources into what is actually important to them. Sony still seems confused as to what they should be doing and I was hoping that we'd see a change in Sony when Kaz came around. Streamline SMC and stop pumping out stuff all the time that would just end up alienating a consumer to buying your stuff.

I had a hard time going for the ZL because I had heard about the rumoured specs of the Xperia A and it made it tough to justify upgrading now when I could just wait a few months and get the next one, but then what about waiting after that? I suppose that goes more towards the current direction of the mobile phone industry, but Sony is pretty bad for just not being able to settle with a specific phone and let that do the work. They are too slow and spread everything too thin.

That said, I am very happy with the ZL and I do think it is an incredibly good phone but it could stand to use a bit more resources behind it. They always seem one step behind everyone else and it just doesn't feel right. I just don't want to feel like I made an error in upgrading early if in a few months my phone is already going to be 'dated' by another new Xperia phone.
Click to expand...

Good post.

Sony needs to get with the times. People are willing to pay for a good smartphone. Take advantage of that fact.
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
MeBecomingI said:
The Sony smartphone strategy has always annoyed me. They spread their materials too thin across far too many phones which creates far too much confusion. I've always thought that Sony needs to focus on creating their version of the iPhone / Galaxy S. Make that one phone that becomes synonymous with the company best and continue to pump the majority of the resources into making it the best phone on the market. After, if they can work it in without sacrificing the quality or specifications of the main flagship, they can create a second major flagship and keep it in line with the way Samsung handles the Galaxy S and the Note. They can still pump out the cheaper, smaller phones that fill a different segment in the market but they wouldn't end up being much better than the flagship, like we are seeing with the Z and the A.

If anything, I think Sony needs to put in some incredible tech that no other phone has to really set itself apart. One thing that Samsung does well is have an OLED screen which they can market well and in the case of the S4, they can tout having an 8 core CPU in there. I hope Sony has had a taste of that with the success of having a high-end phone that is water resistant and that gets people talking and interested. Do that, but with more!

I'm honestly not that big a fan of Samsung phones themselves having been around them and used them (everyone in my family has an S3), but the company has done an incredible job with marketing and focusing resources into what is actually important to them. Sony still seems confused as to what they should be doing and I was hoping that we'd see a change in Sony when Kaz came around. Streamline SMC and stop pumping out stuff all the time that would just end up alienating a consumer to buying your stuff.

I had a hard time going for the ZL because I had heard about the rumoured specs of the Xperia A and it made it tough to justify upgrading now when I could just wait a few months and get the next one, but then what about waiting after that? I suppose that goes more towards the current direction of the mobile phone industry, but Sony is pretty bad for just not being able to settle with a specific phone and let that do the work. They are too slow and spread everything too thin.

That said, I am very happy with the ZL and I do think it is an incredibly good phone but it could stand to use a bit more resources behind it. They always seem one step behind everyone else and it just doesn't feel right. I just don't want to feel like I made an error in upgrading early if in a few months my phone is already going to be 'dated' by another new Xperia phone.
Click to expand...

Really good post, absolutely nails the issues Sony have at the moment. As for your own issue, I wouldn't worry. ZL is a one of a kind, 5" phone is a tiny package, there won't be anything like it on the market from Sony (or other companies for that matter) at least until next year. In that sense the ZL is something Sony did right, so is the Z, but releasing them together was stupid.
 
S

spwolf

Member
zomgbbqftw said:
Yup. For all of the shit thrown at Samsung overusing the Galaxy brand they have very clearly defined flagships. GS4 is the H1 2013 flagship and the GNote3 is going to be the H2 flagship. With Sony they released Z/ZL together and split the market, now we have the Xperia A coming out with a smaller, worse screen but better specs in every other way, it just creates confusion for no reason. There is obviously room on the market for a small flagship, no Android manufacturer has a 4-4.3" phone with decent specs and the Xperia A should fill that gap in the market, not create confusion with the Xperia Z. Then you have the H2 flagship which is just going to anger the 8-9m people who bought the Xperia Z in the first half and put a question mark over the 2014 lineup as people won't know whether to get the first half phone or wait for the second half device.

Absolutely shocking strategy, it just feels like Sony Mobile have a bunch of concept devices and don't have anyone filtering what should and shouldn't make it to the market.
Click to expand...

maybe Sony should release A with 2 year old SoC? And what happens then when Samsung and HTC release 4.3" device with up-to-date SoC?

As many devices as they can release, that make sense, is better for them. Everything else is nonsense.

By September/October, Xperia Z and SGS IV will be 1/2 of today's price. In this market, product sells only while it is hot.


For the other people who are not in Europe, Samsung sells over 20 different Galaxy phones, and the number is actually going up with those Grand Galaxies or whatever they call those versions.
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
spwolf said:
maybe Sony should release A with 2 year old SoC? And what happens then when Samsung and HTC release 4.3" device with up-to-date SoC?

As many devices as they can release, that make sense, is better for them. Everything else is nonsense.

By September/October, Xperia Z and SGS IV will be 1/2 of today's price. In this market, product sells only while it is hot.


For the other people who are not in Europe, Samsung sells over 20 different Galaxy phones, and the number is actually going up with those Grand Galaxies or whatever they call those versions.
Click to expand...

No, they shouldn't release Xperia A at all. SP is good enough for a 4.6" device, there is no market for a super high end 4.6" 720p device now, the market has moved onto 1080p for the super high end. SP strikes the right balance of features/specs and price. Xperia A does not and it competes with Xperia Z without having the market defining feature (1080p screen) and will drive more people towards Samsung.

Just so you know HTC tried the very same strategy of releasing everything and anything, and now they are almost dead. Sony need to have a properly focussed line up, not just throw random shit and hope it sticks. Xperia A is an unnecessary distraction for the software development team and for sales and marketing. Sony need to concentrate all of their development time, marketing and sales push towards Xperia Z/ZL until they replace those, Xperia A is not a replacement.

As for HTC and Samsung, neither are going to release a significantly powerful 4.3" phone. Motorola could do as a follow up to the Razr i, but even they seem to have abandoned that market. Even so, I don't know why you are bringing 4.3" phones up, Xperia A is 4.6", a bit smaller than Xperia TX physically.

Sony needed this line up in 2013:

Xperia Z - 5" 1080p, SD600, LTE, 2GB, 32GB, 13MP, 2700mAh, IP57 (Q1)
Xperia "S2" - 4.3" 720p, SD600, LTE, 2GB, 16GB, 13MP, 2300mAh, IP57 (Q3)
Xperia SP - 4.6" 720p, SD400/MSM8960T, LTE, 2GB, 16GB, 8MP, 2300mAh (H1)
Xperia "P2" - 4" 720p, SD400/MSM8960T, 1GB, 8GB, 8MP, 2000mAh (H2)
(?)Xperia "Z2" - 5" 1080p, SD800, LTE, 2GB, 32GB/64GB, 16MP, 2900mAh, IP57 (Q4, possibly)

Plus some ODM crap for South Asia and Latin America for presence and oddball devices like a phablet as a speciality.

Instead we have something like 8 devices all crossing over each other with only Xperia Z and SP with a clear selling point (Waterproof, 5" 1080 for Z and powerful midrange for SP).

Xperia A doesn't fit into a pricing niche either. SP is €449 and Z is €599, there isn't a price point in between that doesn't either devalue Xperia Z or make SP seem expensive. It's a stupid and unnecessary device. It just smacks of the same incompetence at SMC which led them to release Z and ZL together at the same time instead of pushing only Z WW and saving the ZL design for next year.
 
H

Himynameischris

Member
Any chance the SP or A come out in the US? With more carries the T-Mobile.... :/ I'm about 2 weeks away from just getting the GS4 if I don't hear anything else about the Z or ZL releases outside of what we know now...
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
chris.trejo said:
Any chance the SP or A come out in the US? With more carries the T-Mobile.... :/ I'm about 2 weeks away from just getting the GS4 if I don't hear anything else about the Z or ZL releases outside of what we know now...
Click to expand...

Unlikely.

Z will come to T-Mobile, it's currently going through some final stage of testing from what I heard, but other than that it's ZL C6506 offline from here:

http://www.pcnation.com/web/details.asp?item=RA5186

Which I believe is a Sony approved dealer.
 
K

Kadux

Neo Member
Hello everyone, I've been a long time lurker around here. I have a question and would be extremely grateful if someone could help me with this:

I was trying to root my Xperia Z today and was following the threads at XDA. However I have a mac and every driver and program they use seems to be for windows only...I googled how to do it with a mac but the results weren't much better. At this point I'm guessing if it's even possible do to it at all...The threads at XDA weren't much of a solution also as they didn't even address my problem. Seems it's a piece of cake for everyone else but me!

I'm a total noob to android and everything that comes with it. I'm extremely happy with the Xperia Z but would like to try some things with root.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.
 
Peterthumpa

Peterthumpa

Member
Kadux said:
Hello everyone, I've been a long time lurker around here. I have a question and would be extremely grateful if someone could help me with this:

I was trying to root my Xperia Z today and was following the threads at XDA. However I have a mac and every driver and program they use seems to be for windows only...I googled how to do it with a mac but the results weren't much better. At this point I'm guessing if it's even possible do to it at all...The threads at XDA weren't much of a solution also as they didn't even address my problem. Seems it's a piece of cake for everyone else but me!

I'm a total noob to android and everything that comes with it. I'm extremely happy with the Xperia Z but would like to try some things with root.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Click to expand...

Why don't you virtualize a Windows PC and do it from there? Eliminates all the hassle about trying to do it on OSX.
 
T

tzare

Member
zomgbbqftw said:
No, it's not just that, it has a 16MP camera and 32GB storage. Other than the screen it is better in every way. Sony shouldn't bother releasing this phone, there is no room for a 720p flagship on the market > 4.3" in size, 4.6" and above needs to be 1080p now, HTC showed that 1080p can be done on 4.7" so why are Sony even bothering with a 4.6" with 720p. Ridiculous.



Indeed. I got the full story on why updates are still slow this year despite promises to speed up.



No, it's much better than the SP, in fact it's better than the Z/ZL in terms of specs, but it has a much worse screen. It's just going to create consumer confusion and drive people to Samsung/Apple where the flagship choice is clear.



Well here's the problem with updates.

Last year the JB updates for Xperia S/SL/Acro S/Ion, P/Go, J, T/TL/V/TX were planned for Q4 and then T/TL/V/TX would skip 4.2 and jump straight to 5.0, however this plan was made by SMC Lund. Since then SMC Tokyo who have absolutely zero expertise in this process began meddling in an effort to expand their influence and try and bring software development back "home" to Japan even though they are an unproven team with no experience and SMC Lund is basically the best OEM Android developer.

So Tokyo basically told Lund to prioritise the 4.2.1 update for Xperia Z/ZL over all the others and that they would handle the updates for 2012 Xperia phones except Xperia T/TL which was running on Krait like Z/ZL. So Lund delayed their T/TL 4.1.2 roll out by two months and got to work on the Z 4.2.1 update (now 4.2.2). They finished both projects on time, with T/TL/V getting JB in January and TX in March. The Z/ZL 4.2.2 update is finished and just sitting there doing fuck all right now. The problem is that Tokyo took over development of Xperia S/SL/Acro S/Ion and P/Go. They fucked up. So Lund have had to step in and fix all of the problems, but head office says all phones must be on 4.1 before they start the 4.2 roll out, basically they are covering their own arses and forcing Lund not to release 4.2.2 earlier than Tokyo could get 4.1.2 out for their devices.

The worst part is that SMC Lund had a plan to get early 2012 devices updated by November and then EOL their support to lessen the 2013 load. With Tokyo's fuck ups now devices from over a year ago are having to be supported as an extra for Lund as well as development of software for upcoming devices (phablet is a big one taken over by Lund as it requires highly custom software for accurate pen input and multi-window apps etc...). This will lead to delays for 5.0 at Sony because Lund don't have the manpower and Tokyo don't have the competence. I know this for a fact because the 5.0 PDK has been delivered already but no devices have been moved over to the 5.0 stream even though Z/ZL were supposed to shift by now and T/TL/V/TX by the end of the month.

Basically the problems are internal company politics and Tokyo thinking they are better than Lund when it is clear that this is not true. It may be one day, but for now and the foreseeable future Lund is going to be the number one developer within Sony and Tokyo need to let them take the software lead and stop meddling. The best think Kaz and Suzuki did for Xperia was keep Lund open as the centre for software development, now they need to back Lund internally.
Click to expand...


thanks for the info. I wonder if i will ever see KLP on my T.
I have skipped Z because while an awesome phone it is a bit too big, SP is nice but too similar, we will see if Xperia A has a dedicated camera button as i really like that feature in a smartphone. As for the phablet, how would sony's stylus compare with spen. I will be buying a galaxy note 8 (yes it is a bit pricey i know) because i find spen to be a very useful device and no one has replicated it yet
 
D

Detox

Member
Fezan said:
this is old problem with xperia line up my p behaves the same way. its runing wif great then at one it drops at the same spot
Click to expand...
My Arc had the same problem, it must be a software problem. Sometimes I go to wifi settings and it has 2/3 bar signal, but it isn't connected, other times I have to manually force it connect to a saved network. It makes no sense that they still haven't figured out what causes it after all this time.
 
S

spwolf

Member
zomgbbqftw said:
No, they shouldn't release Xperia A at all. SP is good enough for a 4.6" device, there is no market for a super high end 4.6" 720p device now, the market has moved onto 1080p for the super high end. SP strikes the right balance of features/specs and price. Xperia A does not and it competes with Xperia Z without having the market defining feature (1080p screen) and will drive more people towards Samsung.

Just so you know HTC tried the very same strategy of releasing everything and anything, and now they are almost dead. Sony need to have a properly focussed line up, not just throw random shit and hope it sticks. Xperia A is an unnecessary distraction for the software development team and for sales and marketing. Sony need to concentrate all of their development time, marketing and sales push towards Xperia Z/ZL until they replace those, Xperia A is not a replacement.

As for HTC and Samsung, neither are going to release a significantly powerful 4.3" phone. Motorola could do as a follow up to the Razr i, but even they seem to have abandoned that market. Even so, I don't know why you are bringing 4.3" phones up, Xperia A is 4.6", a bit smaller than Xperia TX physically.

Sony needed this line up in 2013:

Xperia Z - 5" 1080p, SD600, LTE, 2GB, 32GB, 13MP, 2700mAh, IP57 (Q1)
Xperia "S2" - 4.3" 720p, SD600, LTE, 2GB, 16GB, 13MP, 2300mAh, IP57 (Q3)
Xperia SP - 4.6" 720p, SD400/MSM8960T, LTE, 2GB, 16GB, 8MP, 2300mAh (H1)
Xperia "P2" - 4" 720p, SD400/MSM8960T, 1GB, 8GB, 8MP, 2000mAh (H2)
(?)Xperia "Z2" - 5" 1080p, SD800, LTE, 2GB, 32GB/64GB, 16MP, 2900mAh, IP57 (Q4, possibly)

Plus some ODM crap for South Asia and Latin America for presence and oddball devices like a phablet as a speciality.

Instead we have something like 8 devices all crossing over each other with only Xperia Z and SP with a clear selling point (Waterproof, 5" 1080 for Z and powerful midrange for SP).

Xperia A doesn't fit into a pricing niche either. SP is €449 and Z is €599, there isn't a price point in between that doesn't either devalue Xperia Z or make SP seem expensive. It's a stupid and unnecessary device. It just smacks of the same incompetence at SMC which led them to release Z and ZL together at the same time instead of pushing only Z WW and saving the ZL design for next year.
Click to expand...

you know how it works - phone's are premium for 3-4 months max, after that, they drop in value sharply and are "old" news. So releasing more high end models seems fine to me.

Maybe once Sony Mobile "settles" in their market position, they will not be so hungry, but personally as a user, i want them to release as many as possible, because Samsung is doing the same.

Right now, Sony Mobile needs more phones, they are literally selling only 2 devices - J and Z... so new lineup needs to come up soon.


p.s. new .86 firmware finally fixes Xperia U issue and makes it livable. Took them a while... maybe thats what Lund has been working on instead of S.
 
H

HollovVpo1nt

Banned
zomgbbqftw said:
No, they shouldn't release Xperia A at all. SP is good enough for a 4.6" device, there is no market for a super high end 4.6" 720p device now, the market has moved onto 1080p for the super high end. SP strikes the right balance of features/specs and price. Xperia A does not and it competes with Xperia Z without having the market defining feature (1080p screen) and will drive more people towards Samsung.
Click to expand...

I heavily disagree. I would trade my Z for a 720p Xperia A in a heartbeat. Besides, what right balance does the Xperia Z strike between price and offering? It's just another phone, nothing major. What makes the Xperia A special is that it has all the high end hardware in a 4.3" housing. If they manage to get the Xperia A body in the same shape as the Xperia Z it'll be an amazing device.

What Sony should do is offer more services and features. While the GS3/4 have tons of features you'll never use, people do take into account what it can do and what others don't.

I think you underestimate how many people want a 4.3" flagship.
 
S

spwolf

Member
Chinner said:
is there a update out fo the xperia U? what does it do? my gf has that phone so interested to hear.
Click to expand...

its Italian FW, so you have to root the phone and change the version and it will auto update via Sony software after that.... otherwise you probably gotta wait a bit.

what it does is makes it usable... its a lot faster probably during memory management, so answering calls doesnt take 20s anymore (it did sometimes)... My Wife was very unhappy with hers until now, lets see if it works fine after few days.
 
S

spwolf

Member
HollovVpo1nt said:
I heavily disagree. I would trade my Z for a 720p Xperia A in a heartbeat. Besides, what right balance does the Xperia Z strike between price and offering? It's just another phone, nothing major. What makes the Xperia A special is that it has all the high end hardware in a 4.3" housing. If they manage to get the Xperia A body in the same shape as the Xperia Z it'll be an amazing device.

What Sony should do is offer more services and features. While the GS3/4 have tons of features you'll never use, people do take into account what it can do and what others don't.

I think you underestimate how many people want a 4.3" flagship.
Click to expand...

btw - best thing to come from Kaz - unified Sony. Phones being designed right now, have parts done directly by Sony division with that expertise, and they are responsible for it (and get fame and bonuses based on it). Previously, Sony Mobile would integrate Sony camera sensors just like Samsung would... now Sony's Camera division will do Camera for phones directly.

Same goes for displays and everything else in Sony Mobile and Vaio PC's. One Sony will be responsible for all future Sony products.

All of their products seem to be a lot better this year, from phones to tv's to vaio's to ps4... and with Japanese govt Yen handling, they will have to go into black next year.
 
Z

zomgbbqftw

Banned
HollovVpo1nt said:
I heavily disagree. I would trade my Z for a 720p Xperia A in a heartbeat. Besides, what right balance does the Xperia Z strike between price and offering? It's just another phone, nothing major. What makes the Xperia A special is that it has all the high end hardware in a 4.3" housing. If they manage to get the Xperia A body in the same shape as the Xperia Z it'll be an amazing device.

What Sony should do is offer more services and features. While the GS3/4 have tons of features you'll never use, people do take into account what it can do and what others don't.

I think you underestimate how many people want a 4.3" flagship.
Click to expand...

Xperia A is a 4.6" phone. I myself said that it should have been a 4.3" phone. I absolutely agree about the demand for a small flagship. I think such a device would be in high demand, take a look at my proposed 2013 line up again and you will see that I put a 4.3" flagship in for Q3.
 
C

Cerity

Member
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