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The time is right for Sony to release a PSP3 aka. PS4 Portable

autoduelist

Member
Nobody would buy it.
Nobody wants to end up with a dead phone at some inconvenient moment when they can't charge. Most people don't buy $500+ phones.
Dedicated handhelds have their place, as the Switch has proven.
You just need to be careful with the Bill of Materials and have rock-solid amounts of post-launch support. Sony failed in both of these cases with the Vita. If they want to try again, they have to address both of these issues simultaneously.

I mean, Nintendo -just- successfully showed that you can follow up a flop with a winner, there seems to be some resistance to the idea that Sony could do this.

As long as it's PS2 compatible, and they get it out there that this thing is a portable PS2 [in addition to everything else] it has a solid chance of doing well. It's not about PS4 compatibility [obviously, that would be nice but seems a bit of a reach], it's about the nostalgia bomb of PS2.
 

Smax

Member
For me the ideal device would have to be:

-Equal specs to PS4 slim.
-Fully compatible with all PS4 games, accessible through my psn account.
-128gb internal memory and expandable with microSD slot.
-6 to 7 inch 1920x1080p OLED screen.
-Add L2, L3, R2, R3 buttons/triggers to the Vita layout and keep the touch pad on the back.
-I don't care about phone capabilities and Android OS, but I wouldn't mind if it had those.

Keep it around €500 and I'm there day one.

This is techically possible, but I don't know how commercially successful it could be in today's climate.
 

Nikodemos

Member
I mean, Nintendo -just- successfully showed that you can follow up a flop with a winner, there seems to be some resistance to the idea that Sony could do this.
Well Sony is the underdog in handheld space. In order to carve a niche they can't rely on the strength/inertia of their evergreen titles, since they don't have any.
Thus they need to go low and slow. A device that's cheaper and smaller than the Switch.
Something like a downclocked SD821, 4 GB LPDDR4 and 32 GB internal storage (SD expandable). 5 - 5.2'' 720p screen (LCD for cost reasons), dual shoulder buttons (maybe clickable thumbsticks if BoM allows it). No dumb gimmicks like back touchpad. No more than $249 (preferable $229).
 

jufonuk

not tag worthy
Remember when Sony copied the wii ?
How is the move doing now ?

If Sony approached a switch style handheld the correct way they could do well , but if done wrong it would look like a copy cat “me too” kind of device.

Also could Sony afford to develope the system and support it ?

Nintendo did the switch to unify its console systems

The 3ds is on its way out.
 

neckthrough

Neo Member
But you can go for an older chip like the 821. Which is still a very good SoC. And is now bound to be quite cheap, given that it's almost two years old.
Agreed.
The SD821 has an in-built quad-channel memory controller. And it's unlikely a dedicated gaming device would come out with anything less than 4x1GB LPDDR4. So the memory bandwidth is already taken care of by the SoC manufacturer.
Sorry, I messed up my channels/bits, I was counting 64b as a single channel. No matter - the 821 has a peak bandwidth of 29.8GB/s, which is nearly identical to the TX1's peak 25.6GB/s. The peak GFLOP count is also nearly identical. I'll grant that Samsung 14nm is likely more power-efficient than TSMC 20nm, so the 821 will probably be able to run at a slightly faster clock than the TX1 while draining the same juice. But then you have to factor in the potential benefits of the software stack and familiar GeForce architecture that the TX1 brings. So I don't think there's any easy magic recipe - the amount of performance you can buy per/$ and per/W is well-known at this time, and there aren't any generational improvements that I see over the horizon that could significantly move the pareto-optimal curve.

So any cost-effective Sony handheld introduced in 2018 is at best going to be marginally more powerful than the Switch. Which is perfectly fine if it were a standalone platform with the full might of a corporation behind it. But as a second-fiddle incompatible platform it's tricky. Developers will have to put in real effort to port PS4 games to run natively. It's not a matter of polish and optimization as is the case with PS4 Vanilla/Pro. You have a radically different CPU *and* GPU architecture, with an order-of-magnitude difference in capability.
 

autoduelist

Member
Remember when Sony copied the wii ?
How is the move doing now ?

If Sony approached a switch style handheld the correct way they could do well , but if done wrong it would look like a copy cat ”me too" kind of device.

Also could Sony afford to develope the system and support it ?

Nintendo did the switch to unify its console systems

The 3ds is on its way out.

Sony was doing motion controls with the PS2. They didn't 'copy' the Wii, so much as they were already pioneering the concept.

Yes, Wii beat them to market, but that's always a risk with Sony/Nintendo, because Sony positions themselves as a 'high tech gadget' company, whereas Nintendo has generally been okay with less, but serviceable, power. This means, as a general rule, Nintendo can always beat Sony to market given the same idea, but does not in any way mean that Sony is 'copying' Nintendo. That said, I'm sure the wild success of the Wii forced Sony to market a year before they would have liked.

By the same token, Sony will likely never do a hybrid. They need the PS5 to be 'top of the line' for something that is 'console sized', and couldn't take the power hit from going smaller [at any given point in time, you can build something more powerful and cheaper at a larger size compered to a smaller size]. They need the PS5 relatively 'high end' for it's time and place, whereas Nintendo never chases power in the same way because their market has never required it. Again, this means Nintendo can generally decrease time to market as well as price compared to their competitors. Power, end user cost, size, and time to market are balanced differently for different companies, but needing one affects the others.
 

goldenpp72

Member
Sony was doing motion controls with the PS2. They didn't 'copy' the Wii, so much as they were already pioneering the concept.

Yes, Wii beat them to market, but that's always a risk with Sony/Nintendo, because Sony positions themselves as a 'high tech gadget' company, whereas Nintendo has generally been okay with less, but serviceable, power. This means, as a general rule, Nintendo can always beat Sony to market given the same idea, but does not in any way mean that Sony is 'copying' Nintendo. That said, I'm sure the wild success of the Wii forced Sony to market a year before they would have liked.

By the same token, Sony will likely never do a hybrid. They need the PS5 to be 'top of the line' for something that is 'console sized', and couldn't take the power hit from going smaller [at any given point in time, you can build something more powerful and cheaper at a larger size compered to a smaller size]. They need the PS5 relatively 'high end' for it's time and place, whereas Nintendo never chases power in the same way because their market has never required it. Again, this means Nintendo can generally decrease time to market as well as price compared to their competitors. Power, end user cost, size, and time to market are balanced differently for different companies, but needing one affects the others.

Sony would not have created the move controllers if not for the Wii, it wasn't an inevitable concept for them, come on now. The Eyetoy is hardly applicable to the Wii concept either.
 
We just need a Xperia Play 2

Noidea why the phone and gaming division cant work together, give the Vita one last hurrah
Nearly everything in the Vita is cheap now, the GPU is old, 5 inch screens are the norm now, 2200 mAh is pretty average too.
 

Breakage

Member
Tbf the SIXAXIS controller was Sony's first (pathetic) response to the Wiimote.
Phil Harrison infamously called rumble a "last generation" feature.
 

neckthrough

Neo Member
For me the ideal device would have to be:

-Equal specs to PS4 slim.
-Fully compatible with all PS4 games, accessible through my psn account.
-128gb internal memory and expandable with microSD slot.
-6 to 7 inch 1920x1080p OLED screen.
-Add L2, L3, R2, R3 buttons/triggers to the Vita layout and keep the touch pad on the back.
-I don't care about phone capabilities and Android OS, but I wouldn't mind if it had those.

Keep it around €500 and I'm there day one.

This is techically possible, but I don't know how commercially successful it could be in today's climate.
How on earth do you think it's technically possible today to have a portable console with those specs? The PS4 slim consumes 165W at load. To run that for 3 hours, you'd need a battery with ~0.5KWh capacity, which is ~100Ah@5V. Now, I assume you don't want to carry a lead-acid battery in your hands, so we'll go with Li ion.

Here's one I found on Alibaba: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/12V...uper-Battery-For-Golf-RC-Car/32837499667.html. It costs $376.95 and weighs 4.5kg. Add the 2.1kg weight of the PS4 itself, and you're looking at a 6.6kg console. Not very portable ;).
 

Nikodemos

Member
You have a radically different CPU *and* GPU architecture, with an order-of-magnitude difference in capability.
Adreno is the most commonplace GPU architecture, on account of Qualcomm having something like 50% marketshare in Android space, plus the 530 is fully Vulkan compliant from the ground-up.
ARM ports of PC/console games are limited mostly by the wildly varying configurations and limited processing power of the most common mobile SoCs (we're talking SD435s and 625s here), along with the well-noted reluctance of Android users to actually pay for games.
Neither of which is an issue with a standardised handheld (from a noted gaming device company having its own online marketplace) powered by last-gen's flagship chip.
After all, the Switch also has a bog-standard ARM CPU and doesn't suffer from a lack of ports.
 

gspat

Member
Sony would be better off releasing an app.

Just make a PSNow app for android phones.

Couple it with a PSPlus membership and you have cloud saves.

It's free money.
 

FarosVillein

Neo Member
Day fucking one, I loved my PSP and I love my Vita, i'd even settle for a PS3 portable in terms of graphics! So long as it plays PS2 games at least
 

neckthrough

Neo Member
Adreno is the most commonplace GPU architecture, on account of Qualcomm having something like 50% marketshare in Android space, plus the 530 is fully Vulkan compliant from the ground-up.
ARM ports of PC/console games are limited mostly by the wildly varying configurations and limited processing power of the most common mobile SoCs (we're talking SD435s and 625s here), along with the well-noted reluctance of Android users to actually pay for games.
Neither of which is an issue with a standardised handheld (from a noted gaming device company having its own online marketplace) powered by last-gen's flagship chip.
After all, the Switch also has a bog-standard ARM CPU and doesn't suffer from a lack of ports.
I don't really disagree with any of the points you're making here, but I don't believe you're rebutting my concern that you quoted. Sorry if it didn't come across, but my concern was that the CPU and GPU architectures are very different from the x86/Radeon on the PS4, and there's a ~5-10x GPU performance deficit on top. Taken together, these issues would make ports non-trivial and on the same order of complexity as Switch ports. Which means Sony would have to invest time and money in making them happen. This would be a distinct parallel console architecture/ecosystem for Sony; a rather different picture from the OP's vision of nearly effortless backwards compatibility of the entire PS4 library.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Ps4 compatibility wont happen until theres and AMD mobile chip.

I bet AMD'S first one is about the same as the terga X1.

MAYBE if AMD produce a mobile APU about half the power of a Ps4 in 2019 it may happen.

If the switch sells 25 million by the end of 2018 it may motivate sony to do something.Sony will want a peace of the pie.
 
I too think that a PlayStation Vita successor would be an amazing thing to see but perhaps from a business perspective, Sony might not be able to succeed in this area, for a couple of reasons.

Now I always thought that this picture was a superb concept and I would love to own this device.

psp2thoughts-mar10.jpg


This to me, is what the Vita should have been. But let me address my concerns for a possible Vita successor in the respect that it may struggle to find a place in the market to combat Nintendo and Switch.

- Established Portable IP

Okay, it's no secret that Pokemon is the main reason millions of people buy a Nintendo handheld console. At one point in time, I would have said that Sony should money hat Namco Bandai for exclusive game rights to the Digimon series, however since that series is nothing in the public eye to Pokemon anymore, it would simply be redundant. Nintendo IP just seems to be perfect for home gaming or portable. Fancy relaxing at home, try some Mario Kart. Want to kill some time on the journey to work? Smash a quick level or two on Yoshi's Woolly World. Do you want a console like experience on a portable where you can just vegetate and get lost? Zelda is your thing. Is your handheld console your primary console and you want a game that will last you for a long period of time? Boom, Pokemon.

Sony just don't have the IP in their library. Little Big Planet is as far as it comes to intellectual property ideal for portable gaming and sadly the scope of it makes it far more complex than Mario if you truly want to get the most out of the game. Honestly it's ideal for portable gaming, if you truly get into the Play, Create and Share aspects of the game. Problem is, many people don't. Media Molecule were the only big Sony Studio apart from Studio Japan to support the Vita and that's where it hurt a lot. I'll elaborate on that in a moment (Sony Bend weren't so much a thing then.) But quite honestly Sony lost Monster Hunter because of their lack of dedication to handheld gaming, they lost Yu-Gi-Oh! because of diminishing sales. All the momentum they built with PSP they killed with Vita and it's a shame because they are two very different devices.

- Nintendo Studios can thrive off handheld only sales

Here is a question Sony need to ask themselves. Can we fund and support a studio that could operate solely on sales from their portable platform?

I don't think they can. They need a huge install base and an IP that sell's portable systems.

They need to sell at least 500,000 to 1 million+ copies per game to survive, based on a two year development cycle and a small team.

Nintendo can happily keep studios independent and on 2DS/3DS only because they make a healthy profit. Sony are admittedly greedy and they always want more, they always push for more and gamer's benefit from their drive to push beyond the boundaries they keep setting with the first party titles. The emphasis on portable gaming needs to be short bursts of handheld fun and honestly, I don't think a Sony studio has conquered that feat yet.

Lets's just say for arguments sake, Sony open three studios, or even just create three additional teams within existing studios. Three games over a two year development cycle. They pay all the costs for setting up, software, wages, trademarking etc. (Assuming they don't use current IP). They make this new console and it bombs. That's a ridiculous amount of money to lose on a whim. The Vita killed Zipper, even though Unit 13 was a solid game and Motorstorm RC didn't exactly sell like hot cakes, even if it did get Evolution one more crack at a game. Sony Japan didn't think much of the Vita by not releasing Gravity Rush 2 on the Vita, when Gravity Rush 1 was an amazing example of why you should own a Vita.

- Vita ruined a lot of good will Sony built with PSP

I can't stress that I love my Vita. I am still fucking annoyed that Soul Sacrifice has not been ported to the PS4 yet. Persona 4 Golden is one of my G'sOAT and Uncharted Golden Abyss, courtesy of what people say, is a great Uncharted game. So please don't think I'm needlessly hating. I loved my PSP dearly and I still do. I love my Vita just as much. But consider the average consumer who isn't a PlayStation enthusiast and the common complaints from consumers.

[1.] Point of entry is too high. £229.99 was a hell of a lot for a portable console when 3DS was £159.99 after a price cut and trading in a DSi reduced the price further to £89.99.
[2.] The system used specific memory cards. This was a further cost and quite honestly they weren't cheap. My 32GB card back in the day cost £79.99 making the purchase close to the price of a PS4 and more than a PS3 at the time. No internal memory either.
[3.] We stayed at 3G and not 4G and the data plans Sony arranged with mobile networks were quite honestly, shit. I was getting unlimited 3G a month from Three, promised 4G as soon as they launched at no extra cost for £22.00 a month, with an Xperia X10. The cheapest deal in the UK was Vodafone for 2GB a month at £19.99. No fucking thank you.
[4.] The charger was specific and not generic. Something addressed in the future Slim Vita which solved a lot of problems. These chargers damaged easily and they weren't affordable either.
[5.] No killer app on release. I remember getting Little Deviants, Uncharted: Golden Abyss and ModNation Racers. The only good game was Uncharted. I waited weeks for Gravity Rush, Soul Sacrifice and Unit 13. Great games were coming, but that was the problem, they were still some ways off.
[6.] It just had no games for months. After the initial wave of 22? The release schedule just died. Nintendo had loads on the horizon, no pun intended, but Sony just didn't have anything. They just kind of expected it to sell gangbusters and it didn't.
[7.] Battery life was incredibly poor. This was a massive complaint I used to hear all the time. I only get four hours out of it. It created a bad stigma with people I knew well within the local gaming community and many were put off. Thought it has to be said, this was also an issue for the 3DS.

- Sony are always conscious of piracy

Which is a fair point because they had a lot of security with the Vita that just quite honestly was a little overkill. The problem is R4 cards were hurting the 3DS and probably still are. I remember an article from a Japanese developer who said he remembered being angry going to drop his son of at school and seeing that everyone was using an R4 card in their 3DS and getting their games for free. Literally denying his company thousands of yen which have been pissed out of the window. Kindness and nice thoughts don't pay these peoples wages and since the 'Random number is 4' escapade, Sony really want to tighten up and may make a douche bag move like using bespoke memory card which cost a bomb to avoid piracy but throwing up a barrier to entry.

- Sony always want to offer the best... but it comes with a price

It has to be said, the glowing OLED screen, the premium dual analog sticks and d-pad. The excellent build quality and feel of the Vita. It's a beautiful device but it came with a cost. The OLED screen quite frankly wasn't necessary and jacked up the cost a lot. I feel if Sony do try to make a Switch competitor, they'll lose focus and go right in for a 1080p or above screen that's going to cost a lot to make. They won't emphasise battery life. It'll be all singing, all dancing and it will accomplish nothing. It'll come with a high price point and it won't sell. That's just the nature of the beast if they repeat their decisions with the Vita.

Watching the NGP announcement, I was amazed by what could be done with the Vita and couldn't wait to sink my teeth into it. Yakuza 4 on the Vita, Ninja Gaiden on the Vita, all looking like PS3 games. It was great. But ultimately failed. The second Nintendo dropped the 3DS price point just before the Vita launched, many of my friends had made their decision. They went with 3DS and that was just one of those things. Price does dictate the market for millions of consumers.

- It'll get panned for being a 'Switch' clone

Assuming they don't fuck up by releasing an over price, premium handheld gaming device with a meagre selection of games, stupidly priced accessories and no built in memory, the press will just accuse Sony of once again copying Nintendo. Even though Nintendo are quite honestly, credited with a lot of things they didn't really innovate, it'll just be another bias comparison to Nintendo's offering. It won't receive a positive impact and it won't gain much traction. I can see it a mile away. Just like Sony got thrown under the bus for releasing their long in development Move tech to combat the Wii success, because quite honestly Nintendo beat them to market, they'll just be a point of comparison. You'll get another 'Sony copy Nintendo' meme and it'll just be bad press all around.

- The market has changed

Can a dedicated portable gaming device become a success in todays market? I'm not so sure. I think Nintendo have really kick started something in that the Switch is a home and portable console with varying capabilities. But it's worth owning because it can be used on the go or in the home with a good level of performance. Now that USP alone, is well worth a purchase. I bought my fiancee a Switch for Christmas because she was fanboying over Zelda: Breath of the Wild and having seen and played it, I really can see the appeal.

But, without being accused of down right plagiarising, the market has changed. I've worked in retail for a good number of years, since the height of the 360, down to cooling off as PS3 picked up momentum, through Sony pushing back in front and to where we are today watching Nintendo become more and more relevant when it seemed like the Wii U days were a bleak picture of Nintendo being pushed into obscurity. This Christmas I have sold far more iPads, Samsung Galaxy Tabs and cheap smart phones that parents intend to use as gaming devices over dedicated consoles. I've seen a healthy amount of interest in the Switch but nothing compared to portables of old.

Bare in mind, the UK isn't the ideal market for the Switch in many senses. I don't feel as though I need one because I have my PS4 and I have plenty of games on my Xperia X to keep me going for long journeys and the Vita is there if I need it. Or my PSP. It's a tough sell for me as a gamer but there's millions like me. The most common gamer I come across as a customer, from my experience in retail in the UK is a person that has either an XBOX or PlayStation and buys Fifa and Call of Duty each year without fail and literally next to nothing else. Maybe Assassins Creed or the odd long running franchise, but that's about it. They pour pound after pound into DLC packs and Ultimate Team but quite honestly, the market has just changed. Even McDonalds have Android Tablets secured in their children's section to play Angry Birds, Candy Crush and other trending android games. I don't know if there is a market there.

So, baring all that in mind, what would I do?

If I was Sony, I'd ditch the high specification and go for something more approachable. I'd design the system to be just like product concept art I attached. I'd create a docking station that functions either by itself or can be further improved through connecting it to the PS4 PSU/HDMI output, much like the processing box for the VR headset. Make it fully compatible with the PS4, so you can play it at home as an extension of your PS4 using an app on the home screen. But I would also allow the docking station to function without needing a PS4 but I'd look to find ways to boost performance using the PS4's power to create a truly linked and integrated device.

I'd go for a 1280 x 720p screen because honestly graphics don't make a game and you can still make great visual games at 720p. If Zelda can show case great visuals at 720p then surely Sony can too and they won't require a massive amount of horsepower here to do so. This is another region where I would be a little more conservative. I'd create a product that is premium on the outside, as in it's appearance and design, whilst having it be moderately powerful, but not at the top end of the scale. A decent amount of RAM and possibly an AMD chip, if possible, to keep in line with PS4, so that the games on this portable device would look better at home because the PS4 aids in improving the performance. Again I would stress the benefit of owning both systems, as well as it's ability to function adequately as a stand alone system.

I'd do a bit of money hatting and get some great third party games from known developers and series involved. It would need to have Call of Duty and Fifa from third parties. I'd also look at creating internal teams that specialise in the console and can aid in porting like xDev in Liverpool do (and Santa Monica in the States) but also I'd start learning to master the success of portable gaming and revive some old IP in the process. Integrate existing IP and develop new IP to give people choice.

It needs a decent amount of internal storage, both for updates and content, as well as support for a micro SD card upto 256GB in size. I would also look into the ability to boot into Android using an app on the device so that users can really make the most of their device, but as piracy is a concern, I'd look very closely at what can be done to hack the machine through the SD card port and the android partition. If Android would be too costly, they need to get core apps in there like Netflix, Amazon, YouTube, Facebook etc. But it's needs to be simple to develop for, both in gaming and application wise.

The system needs to have 4G support from a nano sim and it needs, most importantly, to have a great battery life. I don't care if this system barely out performs the Switch. Great games sell themselves and anyone who grumbles at the Swtich's graphical capabilities have never fallen in love with a PS1 game, aliasing, texture warping and all. Then finally, and here is the key bit, they need to launch at a VERY affordable price. Tick all of these boxes and I think you'll have the best chance at making the proposed console a success.

In short you're asking for a miracle with a hell of a lot of funding. But I would be so down day one.
 

jadedm17

Member
$800 Phone vs. $300 gaming portable.

I'm fine with the bezels on the Switch; The cost to what you get is amazing.

I don't want to pay $600 for a slightly larger screen.
That doesn't make sense fiscally either.

I doubt Sony will make another portable but it's fun to dream? Shrug
 

EverydayBeast

ChatGPT 0.1
SONY’s best bet is to release all their hits and classics on today’s app stores that way they won’t have the pleasure of failing in tough handheld business dictated by Nintendo’s iron fist.
 
It'd be dead in the water.

Naughty Dog didn't even want to develop for the Vita. They "oversaw" the development of Uncharted Golden Abyss. Think about it. Their first party studio wanted no part of the Vita. What does that say about third parties like EA, Activision? Only way those big dogs hop on board is if there's a big enough user base waiting for them to justify their support (i.e., Sony's first party will have to do all the heavy lifting initially). Sony doesn't have a single first party game that can push hardware that much or that fast. They don't have a Mario Kart, a Smash Brothers, a Pokemon, or an Animal Crossing. They'll try to moneyhat publishers to port their games onto the system like they did the Vita (e.g., Borderlands, Call of Duty, FF) but unless those sales are stellar enough to justify continued support then it'll be one and done from those guys.

They support the Playstation home console because it's a brand they know and can count on for Sony support. They've seen -- hell, we've all seen -- the type of support Sony awards its handhelds and they're pushing their chips towards an unsure thing.
 

wizpiggleton

Neo Member
I see it being a mess.
So much money invested to potentially confuse the market while you're ahead. That's just creating problems for no reason. The asking price is also going to be much higher. There's just no way.

Nintendo was in a spot where the Switch is actually a step up hardware wise so for them it made sense.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Possible PSP3 specs
*AMD little foot APU 14nm
*4 core AMD k6 CPU @1.8ghz
*Rage GPU based on NAVI technology 900gflops
*8gb(2gb for OS)LPDDR4 @ 75GB/S
*5.5 1080p IPS touchscreen
*32gb model only
*Micro sd card slot
*April 2019 release @ $259/£229
 

Jodast

Member
Realistically Sony would be better to just create ether a bog standard 6" - 7" Android tablet with a custom Dual Shock like controller that can be snapped onto the tablet or a dedicated Android portable. They can then release emulated or hardware exclusive titles through the Play Store and advertise PSNow and Remote Play functionality. Maybe even roll their own Android version of the PlayStation Store to get that little bit extra income.

Honestly, at this point in time unless you're Nintendo there is no reason to make any custom handheld. You can't beat Windows or Android handhelds at this point for functionality, game prices and the amount of releases and you can't beat Nintendo's IP. Sony seem to agree given that they have actually patented attachable controls on a tablet/phone.
 

geordiemp

Member
Ps4 compatibility wont happen until theres and AMD mobile chip.

I bet AMD'S first one is about the same as the terga X1.

MAYBE if AMD produce a mobile APU about half the power of a Ps4 in 2019 it may happen.

If the switch sells 25 million by the end of 2018 it may motivate sony to do something.Sony will want a peace of the pie.

AMD Notebooks have Ryzen 7 and 10 GCN coming out now Q1 18 for notebooks at 15W (about same as OG Xb1), so that is strong enough. There is also a Ryzen 5 8 GCN variant.

I dont think the market is there for expensive hand held.... (Outside Japan and Nintendo fans).

In 2018 I predict Switch will continue doing well in Japan but slow down already across EU and USA without a big price cut.
 
Nobody would buy it.
Nobody wants to end up with a dead phone at some inconvenient moment when they can't charge.

You say that, but people totally use their phones at max brightness, watch long form video, play games etc and tons of things that drain a battery today. People are totally 100% willing to do high battery use functions on their phones and not think twice about it.

The argument that people don't want to do things or will refuse to do things that can drain a battery was proven false years ago.

On top of that, the ways and places you can charge a phone is pretty high. Most cars have a USB port you can charge at, any computer has USB ports you can charge on, planes have them built into seats, more and more restaurants have them at the table, any power outlet is a place to charge, and they even sell portable charging stations/packs for like $10. "How could I possibly charge my phone if I'm not at home?!" isn't really an issue circa 2017.
 
1. A simple tv out port and compatibility with all existing DualShock 4 controllers would be all it takes for the PSP3 to offer the same hybrid functionality that the Switch offers. An sd card slot would fix the one weakness that held back the PS Vita, a return of the Vita’s beloved d-pad in the slide out controls would be heralded by portable gamers, and with a 7nm+ quad A75 chipset, the PSP3 could easily run ports of any third party games released on the Switch at 1080p with 60 fps and 16x AA. It could also get ports of PS4 games and a wide variety of indie games akin to the Vita. A powerful wifi chip capable of Wifi Direct would also let Remote Play from PS4 to the PSP3 work very smoothly..

Not really. The hybrid functionality of the switch works so well because it’s THE Nintendo console. The PS4 would still be Sony’s flagship console with sonys flagship games. The PSP3 wouldn’t be powerful enough to run full PS4 games without significant port work, so it would never be able to function in that same space. I also don’t see a scenario where owning JUST a PSP3 would be viable in the same way owning just a switch is.
 
Some delusional people in here. The battery drain would be insane for a high end device. The Switch is only 720P in portable and either has performance issues or massive drop in resolution or both to try and make a hogher end game playable.

The Switch is a success now but that may not be the case in a few years. Sales numbers don't matter to me. I want the software and it has to be from other sources not just 1st party.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
If they made a handheld that played the exact same games and there were no exclusives I would seriously think about buying it. If it can hook up to a tv and use dual shocks etc too


Just a mini-PS4 with a screen attached.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
AMD Notebooks have Ryzen 7 and 10 GCN coming out now Q1 18 for notebooks at 15W (about same as OG Xb1), so that is strong enough. There is also a Ryzen 5 8 GCN variant.

I dont think the market is there for expensive hand held.... (Outside Japan and Nintendo fans).

In 2018 I predict Switch will continue doing well in Japan but slow down already across EU and USA without a big price cut.

Im talking about there smartphone/tablet APU.
I Think there notebook stuff will be to hot an power hungry in a small form factor like a ps vita/switch sized device.
 

Paulxo87

Member
History has played out the same time and time again. From a sales perspective.. only the hardcore end up wanting high end portables. These devices are merely children's toys for the most part. Nintendo Always wins. Sony will just find themselves in a battle with smartphones and spin their wheels.
 

Trogdor1123

Gold Member
History has played out the same time and time again. From a sales perspective.. only the hardcore end up wanting high end portables. These devices are merely children's toys for the most part. Nintendo Always wins. Sony will just find themselves in a battle with smartphones and spin their wheels.
I think so too, the market isn't big enough anymore for more than 1 dedicated hand held.

I'm sure it would be very nice but don't see it as something that would really take off. Nintendo was able to learn from the mistakes ms made with their continuity thing from phones (which was awesome imo).
 

geordiemp

Member
Im talking about there smartphone/tablet APU.
I Think there notebook stuff will be to hot an power hungry in a small form factor like a ps vita/switch sized device.

Approx 15 watts is the ryzen mobile and is scaleable.

Tegra X2 is 7.5 or 15 watts depending on which performance node.

Do you think the Switch is vey low power consumption or Ryzen mobile is very large or something....?

These Apu will go into thin notebooks, but could also do a portable with similar power draw to a switch, especially the Ryzen 5.
 

RaZoR No1

Member
We just need a Xperia Play 2

Noidea why the phone and gaming division cant work together, give the Vita one last hurrah
Nearly everything in the Vita is cheap now, the GPU is old, 5 inch screens are the norm now, 2200 mAh is pretty average too.
This!
I always wanted to buy the Xperia Play, but the hardware was already dated on release.
Now we have bigger screens/phones and better specs so why not release a play 2 ?
 
Ehhhhhh, I get the sentiment as someone who played a lot on my Vita and how a lot of current gen games can work on mobile tech now (as proved by the rather excellent Switch), but really, what’s suggested just isn’t possible right now:

-Architectural similarities aren’t there for true universal compatibility between home and handheld PS, so Sony would have to start from nothing with the software library of their handheld. That would rob it of momentum.

-Sony could feasibly make it happen next gen, but it would require an architectural shift away from x86 for PS5 which means starting from zero in the console market. Which I can’t see happening when MS is doing the opposite with Xbox and there are many signs that Switch is a platform with forwards compatibility in mind.

-Let’s say that instead the handheld will run the exact same code as PS4 games. Storage immediately becomes a huge problem. As does the delivery method.

As for an Xperia Play 2, Google is continuing to tighten its grip on Android rather than loosen it, and the Shield TV really does show the importance of low level optimisation. That the Shield TV can barely manage 720p30 in Resident Evil 5 but the Switch, with lower GPU clocks, can do (almost)1080p60 in Resident Evil Revelations 2, a more demanding game, speaks volumes. Android isn’t cut out for this sort of gaming.
 

EdgeXL

Member
Go ahead and take a moment to laugh at the idea. I’m about to change your mind with a few key facts...

You presented minimal facts and my mind is not changed.

There is no mobile chipset that can run PS4 games natively - let alone heat and battery life concerns. The closest you can get anytime soon is a mobile device that would use PlayStation Now and sync to a controller via Bluetooth,
 
Some delusional people in here. The battery drain would be insane for a high end device. The Switch is only 720P in portable and either has performance issues or massive drop in resolution or both to try and make a hogher end game playable.

The Switch is a success now but that may not be the case in a few years. Sales numbers don't matter to me. I want the software and it has to be from other sources not just 1st party.

It doesn’t really matter if sales numbers matter to you, they matter to devs which is why the success of the switch has drawn interest from 3rd parties.

You say you want software but discredit their first party games, when Nintendo might have the biggest first party ips in the game. If you aren’t into Nintendo first party games then maybe the switch isn’t for you, but I think most people do have an interest in those games.
Even aside from Nintendo’s first party stuff, tons of great indie games have already made it to the platform and third party support definitely seems to be picking up (platinum, ID,
Bethesda, Capcom etc) and with the success of console I’d only expect to see more games coming over in the future not the other way around. Also what exactly is a “higher end game” and which one had these horrible performance issues your talking about? Because that hasn’t been my experience.
 
If Sony ever does another portable I think the following can work

- AMD Raven Ridge (Zen+Vega). x86 over ARM to make it easier to make+port games. 15w is still too high but it said it can be downclocked and reduced to as low as 9w. PS5 will also most likely use Zen so developers can get used to the new architecture.
- 8GB of LDDR4 ram
- Recommend PSP3 games to be at 540p. I know this doesn't sound good. But the Switch is even having trouble getting to 720p and solid FPS on portable mode. I think making games ensure runs at a solid 30 FPS is more important. Also if they keep the smaller form factor of the Vita instead of a tablet sized, I think it still looks fine on a 5 inch screen. Another reason to stay at 540p is the reduced APU speeds to conserve power.
- Focus on teens and the Asian market. I think one of the big issue of the Vita was it tried targeting their main base, the young adult and Western audience. Games like Assassin Creed Liberation, Borderlands 2, Uncharted and Killzone looked great but that audience are the sit at home people who want the best graphics and experience. They need to bring the kiddy games like Ape Escape and the JRPGs like Wild Arms. The best sold game on Vita is Minecraft so they need to target these audiences instead of their main one.
- Game carts issue. As we can see with the Switch (and some Vita games), the carts don't hold enough (game are getting bigger) and are more expensive. It is not going to get cheaper and Sony will never return to UMDs. Physical will always be in demand due to the big used market in Japan. I think the best solution would be the game carts only hold the game license and all games must be downloaded. Mandate that all games can be pre-downloaded a week before release. So you just download the game you want to buy a week before, go to the store and pop in the cart. The cart can be re-sold for the used market. And it will cut costs as the cart can be have like a 1MB chip.
- As for price, just be as low as possible. I thought the Switch high price was going to be a problem but it seems not. I guess the 3DS and Vita prices from before was only a problem 5 years ago. So I guess a $250-$300 price range can be doable.
 

MP!

Member
the only way this would ever work is if they found a mobile x86 chipset that was capable of running PS4 games at least in 720p.

this is a tough thing to do... for battery life and for power...

if they did this then it would be compatible with PS4.... although if they went arm then at least both the switch and the PSP3 (or whatever) would at least be on similar architecture... ... the GPU is the same sort of deal... either make it compatible with PS4's gpu or compatible with the switch's GPU... I don't think an ARM cpu with an AMD gpu solution would be good for development... ...
 

BANGS

Banned
I would love a well supported portable. I almost got a VIta but it was already dead by the time I was interested. Would be sweet to have something like that...
 
Both PS Vita and the Xperia Play would have succeeded if they had shared the same architecture and games. Instead, in 2011, Sony for some idiotic reason released two handhelds with radically different internals that could not play each other's games. Why any company would release two handhelds with vastly different architectures the same year is beyond me. If we consider the Xperia Play the PSP2 given its April 2011 release and weak specs and we consider the PS VITA the PSP3 given its significantly beefier specs and Dec 2011 release, a PSP4 is long overdue.

This time, the PSP4 should be launched alongside a more expensive Smartphone variant ($299 PSP3 and a $999 Xperia Play 2 (available for free with a 24 month carrier contract)) with the same identical CPU, GPU and ram, the only difference would be 4G, external design and the amount of built in storage. But both devices should share the same game library.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Approx 15 watts is the ryzen mobile and is scaleable.

Tegra X2 is 7.5 or 15 watts depending on which performance node.

Do you think the Switch is vey low power consumption or Ryzen mobile is very large or something....?

These Apu will go into thin notebooks, but could also do a portable with similar power draw to a switch, especially the Ryzen 5.

Oh right never new ryzen mobile was so low power, but I read that AMD are designing an APU for smartphones and tablets which I thought would be better for a handheld.

Here's the link

https://www.extremetech.com/computi...-low-power-processor-tablet-smartphone-market
 

Ubername

Banned
This is techically possible, but I don't know how commercially successful it could be in today's climate.
Right. We need to temper future game devices so that cooling or water is no longer an issue such that the device can function in multiple climates and still perform as expected.
 

Nikodemos

Member
Nintendo can afford putting all their might behind the Switch because it's their only product right now, with n3DS basically fading into history. For Sony, a new handheld would be third in line to their efforts (after PS4 and VR). Meaning that anything above the lowest-effort device is unworkable. Certainly nothing even approaching a handheld PS4.
The only way they could retain a modicum of presence in handheld space would be with a Vita-done-right: no fancy custom mobile architecture, no high-end components, no gimmicks, no hidden price barrier.
 
Bezels serve no function and are ugly, modern devices have done away with them altogether, and yet the Nintendo Switch has the largest bezel of any modern portable and paired with a cheap screen to boot. The Vita has a far better screen than the Switch and there is no reason why a PSP3 can't offer the same.

The Switch bezel functions as a place holder for accessories like batteries. It's also worth noting that the Switch has a very durable plastic screen (which I happen to prefer over glass that easily breaks) and thus needs some space for it to stick onto the device.
 
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