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[CamHostage]

If the WiiU is using something similar to wireless HDMI, the conversion to whatever your display needs/understands is done by the console and streamed directly, alongside the signal to your TV, to controller ...

Before you go on too much about Wireless HDMI, known that every impression I've read of it talks about a recognizable lag (but usually it's not a problem because they're streaming movies, I've never seen gaming impressions but mouse browsing is not ideal.)

But whatever WiDi's problems are, Nintendo's demos haven't raised any complaints; furthermore, all this tech about Remote Play lag with Vita isn't really important because Sony can just use an App structure instead of having the PS3 render the whole thing.

But I'm not sure the WiiU needs to spit out two sets of polygonal detail to have something showing on the TV and be mirrored on the screen.

If that is true, then the WiiU CPU and GPU are much more behemoths than anyone ever imagined.

Do you have a multi-monitor set-up with your PC at work or at home? That's all Wii U is doing, but wireless and with control (and awesomesauce.) It depends on the game how much is actually rendered and where it displays it. If you're expecting to be able to run Crysis and Rage on your PC at the same time because you have two monitors, you'll of course be in for a woeful surprise; running World of Warcraft and Peggle at the same time, that's more doable and I'm sure there are people who do just that. We don't know what will be left for the Wii U's second screen after it spits out HD, graphically-intensive material like Zelda HD or the Nature demo - maybe a lot, maybe just enough for a map - but there appears to be plenty of power in the system to explore both ends of the spectrum.

If this sort of thing does get enabled on PS3 with Vita, we can't expect games to have Uncharted 3 like graphics at the same time the PS3 is rendering geometry for the Vita screen as well. That's kind of where I think it would be beneficial for the PS3 to just send executable code to the Vita, rather than just video, or a hybrid of both. There's no reason the PS3 can't load an inventory screen and the like onto the vita and have it execute that code itself.

They do have to design that second app, though. Then again, they've got to design that second environment for the Wii U tablet as well, it's not an inconsequential job (but also not an unmanageable one) to juggle two outputs. The Wii U maintains that synch naturally though, the Vita game would take some handshaking and testing and prototyping and maybe some tuning of your middleware to spit out Vita code ... with Wii U, it's of course never a question of "if" or "how", just "what" as far as connectivity between the two devices.

 

[Raistlin]

Indeed. There will never be a guaranteed user base of PS3 and PSV owners to bother with features that will require the use of both at the same time.

True, but if Sony is smart they will create some incentives to include interactions.

Vita is not a PS3 add-on. It's a handheld.

I do agree with your conclusion. This is nothing more than a gimmick. Remote Play was too laggy to use for most things effectively.

Part of Remote Play's issues are due to a shitty 11b antenna. Regardless, this wouldn't have to be a video streaming solution anyway. Vita can run software.

 

[Hex]

It is a round and round thing.

Wii leads to Move
Remote play leads to WiiU

I was telling my gf last night that it would be very simple for Sony to do 80% of the things that the WiiU was showing off with a Vita+PS3 combo

 

[LethaL ImpuLse]

Remote play leads to WiiU

But Nintendo first had separate screens with the Gamecube.

 

[Hex]

But Nintendo first had separate screens with the Gamecube.

And there were motion controllers out long before the Wii.
Semantics.
The remote play functionality is what is being enhanced upon.

 

[onQ123]

But Nintendo first had separate screens with the Gamecube.

 

[LethaL ImpuLse]

And there were motion controllers out long before the Wii.
Semantics.
The remote play functionality is what is being enhanced upon.

It was more obvious though the idea of Move was directly facilitated by Nintendo's Wii success. Remote play -> WiiU not so much.

 

[vantastic]

I would like to see Sony take it further and make a commercial with them resuming a game on the Vita from the PS3 while leaving the house.

guess you didn't see Ruin at sony's conference

 

[vantastic]

Oh I'm not. I'm a Nintendo fan too. I just hate this mentality that some Nintendo fans have where they think their favourite company is the God-almighty inventor of every "innovation" in gaming.

Just, no.

kind of like that fruit company that seems to come out with "innovations" that have been around on tons of other devices.

 

[Fess]

The remote play functionality is what is being enhanced upon.

SEGA Dreamcast and it's VMU

 

[Lord_Byron28]

I'd imagine these ideas will be as successful as 4 Swords was on the Gamecube , not very much so.

I'm glad there are still some members on GAF who know and can remember past 2006. This functionality and ideas have been done since the 1990's with the GB player connecting the GB to the N64 and Nintendo tried this idea before with GBA and GCN connectivity and designed Zelda Four Swords and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles. While they could port over to the Vita/PS3 it would bomb. Forcing players to buy a PS3 and Vita would likely be more expensive and less likely. If Nintendo couldn't get it to catch on with Zelda and Final Fantasy, I doubt Sony will be any more succesful when the PS3 and Vita are significantly more expensive.

 

[disappeared]

It's still incredible to see how ahead of the curve the DC was. Ten years later and just now are companies beginning to improve upon what it ushered in.

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

They do have to design that second app, though. Then again, they've got to design that second environment for the Wii U tablet as well, it's not an inconsequential job (but also not an unmanageable one) to juggle two outputs. The Wii U maintains that synch naturally though, the Vita game would take some handshaking and testing and prototyping and maybe some tuning of your middleware to spit out Vita code ... with Wii U, it's of course never a question of "if" or "how", just "what" as far as connectivity between the two devices.

Sony would definitely have to revise their libraries, and probably even make some changes to the firmware to enable this, but it's not as hard as it sounds. They just need to get their middleware up to snuff and it will come. That should take significantly less time than it will to get the Wii U to market. Very realistic chance that there are implementations of this well before the Wii U is out.

 

[onQ123]

I'm glad there are still some members on GAF who know and can remember past 2006. This functionality and ideas have been done since the 1990's with the GB player connecting the GB to the N64 and Nintendo tried this idea before with GBA and GCN connectivity and designed Zelda Four Swords and Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles. While they could port over to the Vita/PS3 it would bomb. Forcing players to buy a PS3 and Vita would likely be more expensive and less likely. If Nintendo couldn't get it to catch on with Zelda and Final Fantasy, I doubt Sony will be any more succesful when the PS3 and Vita are significantly more expensive.

yep I remember this

all small steps to getting where we are today

 

[Raistlin]

I'm sure they could figure it out. It just wouldn't be the same method as the PS3+PSP.

Part of the problem with remote play is the PSP itself I suspect. Regardless, you are using your home network to stream video - it is therefore inherently unpredictable. If your PS3 is hooked up via Ethernet and you're playing PSP near your router, the lag is reduced. Now configure the PS3 to WiFi, with you (and your PSP) and the router in 3 different locations. More lag. Similarly, your actual router itself plays into things. They are not all made equal.

With Wii U, given the fact it only supports one controller and is acknowledged to only be usable in the same room, one can deduce it is not using your network. It's some sort of line-of-site connection functionally similar to wireless HDMI - at least for the video end of things.





Where I think Vita can be much more useful is where it would actually download a client app that's meant to interact with the PS3 title. Vita has bluetooth, so it can act as a controller for the PS3. So think of the demo they showed with Zelda where you use the touchscreen for item selection or a map? That sort of thing should be easily doable with no lag. While that may not open nearly as many 'new' gaming experiences, it would be a very welcome addition to those that have a Vita ... and would be quite easy to develop at little expense.

Or think of something like Settlers, Magic the Gathering, Dominion, etc. The biggest failing of Wii U in my eyes is that you can't have multiple controllers for games that could utilize private data (each person having a deck). Obviously you wouldn't want to base a game entirely on this principal since the userbase wouldn't be sufficient. But let's say you're making a PSN version of Dominion. Like Catan, traditionally the game would have to be single player local since otherwise you'd see your opponents cards. Multiplayer is forced to be online.

Now imagine, how much development costs would be involved in making an app that downloads to Vitas to add local multiplayer? It would be pretty barebones ... you just have your cards and use the Vita as your controller? Really wouldn't cost much to add.

And if Sony makes some sort of incentives for adding such features, we could see a decent amount of support. I personally would find it a very welcome feature. Imagine an Aliens-esque radar in your hand? Would be titties.

 

[Raistlin]

wifig not fast enough?

54mbs isn't that bad.

Given you can run Vudu HDX at full bitrate, yeah it should be enough. The issue however is the lag and unpredictability inherent to home network.

 

[Raist]

Where is that "no lag/latency" thing coming from? Is it from the same people who thought that they'll get 1:1 lightsaber fights when the Wii was revealed?

 

[Thoraxes]

Well then you can't possibly have used both features. Remote Play was the PS3 streaming its game to the PSP. The GBA > GC connectivity never had you playing GC-level stuff on the handheld.

Yes, but they both feature(d) asymmetrical gameplay first, which is the point. Also Four Swords had large portions of some levels take place exclusively on the GBA. Graphics are irrelevant for the point he's making though, I think.

 

[Raistlin]

Where is that "no lag/latency" thing coming from? Is it from the same people who thought that they'll get 1:1 lightsaber fights when the Wii was revealed?

I assume it's based on people testing it at E3? Regardless, it's a logical deduction. Since this can only be used in the same room, it is uses some sort of line-of-site streaming ala wireless HDMI. That isn't to say there is 'no lag' at all, but that it is far better than remote play.

Also note, this is in reference to actual streaming of video from the main console. Some of the stuff demoed may have been running on the controller itself (item selection, etc), which shouldn't really have any lag to speak of?

 

[Zoe]

Somebody announced no latency. It was either Reggie or Iwata.

 

[Raist]

I assume it's based on people testing it at E3? Regardless, it's a logical deduction. Since this can only be used in the same room, it is uses some sort of line-of-site streaming ala wireless HDMI. That isn't to say there is 'no lag' at all, but that it is far better than remote play.

Well it makes sense for the streaming of the video to the controller's screen, but what about input from the controller to the console? Has to be bluetooth-based, no?

 

[Raistlin]

Well it makes sense for the streaming of the video to the controller's screen, but what about input from the controller to the console? Has to be bluetooth-based, no?

I would assume so.

 

[Raist]

I would assume so.

So assuming the video/audio stream is instant, that'd be no different than playing on a TV. Not so bad.

 

[Touchstone]

Well, at the risk of sounding like a Sony apologist, they did show functionality similar to the Wii U before the Wii U was even announced. Wipeout 2048 has crossplay, multiplayer across platforms, and it was shown before the [more intriguing] multiplayer on the Wii U.

It stands to reason, though, that anything possible on Wii U will be possible by the end of 2011, before Wii U hits the shelves and, thus, before any Wii U games have been released. Plenty of time for developers to take advantage of the concept. Of course, the games would would be tricky to release, because you would have to own both the Vita and the PS3. Not cheap, but I doubt a Wii U would cost any less.

 

[Monty Mole]

It was more obvious though the idea of Move was directly facilitated by Nintendo's Wii success. Remote play -> WiiU not so much.

EyeToy, Singstar and Buzz were doing the causal thing on the PS2 well before Wii was ever announced. And Mike Reid's Pop Quiz on the Commodore 64 was doing it before any of them.

 

[Alexios]

EyeToy, Singstar and Buzz were doing the causal thing on the PS2 well before Wii was ever announced. And Mike Reid's Pop Quiz on the Commodore 64 was doing it before any of them.

Can't get more casual than playing cards really. Chicks dig solitaire.

 

[Touchstone]

Interesting concepts, particularly with card/tabletop game examples. It would make for a fantastic method of interaction. My only worry would be battery life. Assuming the client app varies from small GUI to full-fledged game, major issues could arise.

What would be interesting is a low-power state where the device acts solely as a controller (not using the screen), considering it is fully capable of replacing a DualShock controller and then some. The device would see more use and could even be perceived as even more generally functionally useful.

 

[mclem]

If you're expecting to be able to run Crysis and Rage on your PC at the same time because you have two monitors, you'll of course be in for a woeful surprise; running World of Warcraft and Peggle at the same time, that's more doable and I'm sure there are people who do just that.

Actually, Peggle's been implemented *within* WoW!

 

[mclem]

It is a round and round thing.

Wii leads to Move
Remote play leads to WiiU

I was telling my gf last night that it would be very simple for Sony to do 80% of the things that the WiiU was showing off with a Vita+PS3 combo

Anger leads to Hate
Kinect leads to Suffering?

 

[mclem]

did everyone forget you could use a vmu to pick plays in nfl2k on the dreamcast? :lol who's ripping off who now?

Not only that, you could play Virtua Tennis using the VMU without looking at the screen!