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[Kola]

Has Korey posted already?

 

[Jackson]

I can only speak ancedotally, but I started from almost nothing and have done quiet well for myself in corporate America through the power of le bootstrap!

I started two businesses -- my first business I started at 19 and (predictably) it failed miserably after about a year and a half, but I did learn a lot from that failure. I took a year off for self-study (while working dead-end, minimum wage jobs) before I started my second business at 22 in 2003; and that business has been very successful. However, it's taken many years of hardships to get where I am now. It wasn't an overnight thing and there were massive lows coupled with amazing highs over the years. But through it all the experience has been deeply rewarding. I always tell people the worst day I've ever had at my company is still better than the best day I've had doing anything else.

I came from a lower-income family (we couldn't afford much because my father was under massive debt with little income, but we were not destitute by any means). I never went to college (I'm actually a high school drop out and was hanging with the wrong crowd for awhile). I also had a debilitating illness in my late teens, early/mid twenties (although I'm cured of that now). I had no industry connections, no "corporate world" experience and no prior work experience in either running a business or in the actual industry. Basically I just learned from my mistakes. I started both businesses without any seed capital (no outside investment). Nor did I have any money of my own to invest.

Now, granted I didn't experience any kind of racism, sexism or any other type of culturally prevalent bigotry that impedes a person's progress in their career. So I can only imagine how hard it must be to have to deal with those terrible issues on top of the already nearly insurmountable amount of roadblocks facing someone. Bigotry of any kind has no place in today's Western society, corporate or otherwise.

So how successful? Well, there's public numbers out there on our titles... So I'll leave it at that. But I never started the company for the money. I just want to grow my business because I love what I do and I want to do so much more with it. I don't really want to ever retire.

From firsthand experience I know that the entire corporate and economic system was organically built-up over generations to keep new people out and the existing people, with their nepotistic leanings, in. But I also know that success can be achieved even when coming from nearly nothing. I completely understand that my situation is more of the exception to the rule. And there are so many different factors to success (or being blocked from success). So I would never have the audacity to even think "lulz why don't u get a job son?! Y U no just <insert condescending comment here>!"

TL;DR... I just wanted to say -- in America it's not impossible to obtain the success you want, even if it is improbable.

 

[Dead Man]

I can only speak ancedotally, but I started from almost nothing and have done quiet well for myself in corporate America through the power of le bootstrap!

I started two businesses -- my first business I started at 19 and (predictably) it failed miserably after about a year and a half, but I did learn a lot from that failure. I took a year off for self-study (while working dead-end, minimum wage jobs) before I started my second business at 22 in 2003; and that business has been very successful. However, it's taken many years of hardships to get where I am now. It wasn't an overnight thing and there were massive lows coupled with amazing highs over the years. But through it all the experience has been deeply rewarding. I always tell people the worst day I've ever had at my company is still better than the best day I've had doing anything else.

I came from a lower-income family (we couldn't afford much because my father was under massive debt with little income, but we were not destitute by any means). I never went to college (I'm actually a high school drop out and was hanging with the wrong crowd for awhile). I also had a debilitating illness in my late teens, early/mid twenties (although I'm cured of that now). I had no industry connections, no "corporate world" experience and no prior work experience in either running a business or in the actual industry. Basically I just learned from my mistakes. I started both businesses without any seed capital (no outside investment). Nor did I have any money of my own to invest.

Now, granted I didn't experience any kind of racism, sexism or any other type of culturally prevalent bigotry that impedes a person's progress in their career. So I can only imagine how hard it must be to have to deal with those terrible issues on top of the already nearly insurmountable amount of roadblocks facing someone. Bigotry of any kind has no place in today's Western society, corporate or otherwise.

So how successful? Well, there's public numbers out there on our titles... So I'll leave it at that. But I never started the company for the money. I just want to grow my business because I love what I do and I want to do so much more with it. I don't really want to ever retire.

From firsthand experience I know that the entire corporate and economic system was organically built-up over generations to keep new people out and the existing people, with their nepotistic leanings, in. But I also know that success can be achieved even when coming from nearly nothing. I completely understand that my situation is more of the exception to the rule. And there are so many different factors to success (or being blocked from success). So I would never have the audacity to even think "lulz why don't u get a job son?! Y U no just <insert condescending comment here>!"

TL;DR... I just wanted to say -- in America it's not impossible to obtain the success you want, even if it is improbable.

That it is improbable is the problem. No one says it is impossible, you just have to be lucky as well as hard working which is not acceptable to many people. Congratulations though, sounds like you have worked your arse off.

 

[The Technomancer]

That it is improbable is the problem. No one says it is impossible, you just have to be lucky as well as hard working which is not acceptable to many people. Congratulations though, sounds like you have worked your arse off.

Its not even that you have to be hardworking and lucky to be unusually successful. I'm fine with that. But I think there's a baseline living standard and general availability of opportunity that all working Americans should have access to, and its higher then our current standards.

 

[Devolution]

Its not even that you have to be hardworking and lucky to be unusually successful. I'm fine with that. But I think there's a baseline living standard and general availability of opportunity that all working Americans should have access to, and its higher then our current standards.

It's funny that these threads are really in abundance while I'm reading Perfectly Legal which goes into how the tax structure fucks the working poor more and more, and subsidizes the already rich.

 

[Dead Man]

Its not even that you have to be hardworking and lucky to be unusually successful. I'm fine with that. But I think there's a baseline living standard and general availability of opportunity that all working Americans should have access to, and its higher then our current standards.

Yeah fair point. I wasn't really talking about being super successful though, just elevating yourself from poverty, or having a moderately successful small business. Those both still take massive doses of luck and circumstance which is not really acceptable.

 

[Jackson]

It's funny that these threads are really in abundance while I'm reading Perfectly Legal which goes into how the tax structure fucks the working poor more and more, and subsidizes the already rich.

That's a huge reason why the OWS movement started.

 

[HarryHengst]

You forgot to mention the "study hard" part of the Manos plan, so I assume there's your father's issue. If he slaps 20 hours of hard studying a week on top of that he can become rich.

He could also have become rich by simply bootstrapping himself into the position of son of a rich man! Through strength of will anything is possible, you just have to want it enough!

 

[Maleficence]

That's a huge reason why the OWS movement started.

Exactly, it's a shame the movement doesn't have a more consistent intelligent face to it. It's all hippies and the extreme liberals with their drum circles.

What I'd love is for a bunch of middle class professionals to become the face of these movements and come to the protests in their work uniforms.

 

[Zaptruder]

I can only speak ancedotally, but I started from almost nothing and have done quiet well for myself in corporate America through the power of le bootstrap!

I started two businesses -- my first business I started at 19 and (predictably) it failed miserably after about a year and a half, but I did learn a lot from that failure. I took a year off for self-study (while working dead-end, minimum wage jobs) before I started my second business at 22 in 2003; and that business has been very successful. However, it's taken many years of hardships to get where I am now. It wasn't an overnight thing and there were massive lows coupled with amazing highs over the years. But through it all the experience has been deeply rewarding. I always tell people the worst day I've ever had at my company is still better than the best day I've had doing anything else.

I came from a lower-income family (we couldn't afford much because my father was under massive debt with little income, but we were not destitute by any means). I never went to college (I'm actually a high school drop out and was hanging with the wrong crowd for awhile). I also had a debilitating illness in my late teens, early/mid twenties (although I'm cured of that now). I had no industry connections, no "corporate world" experience and no prior work experience in either running a business or in the actual industry. Basically I just learned from my mistakes. I started both businesses without any seed capital (no outside investment). Nor did I have any money of my own to invest.

Now, granted I didn't experience any kind of racism, sexism or any other type of culturally prevalent bigotry that impedes a person's progress in their career. So I can only imagine how hard it must be to have to deal with those terrible issues on top of the already nearly insurmountable amount of roadblocks facing someone. Bigotry of any kind has no place in today's Western society, corporate or otherwise.

So how successful? Well, there's public numbers out there on our titles... So I'll leave it at that. But I never started the company for the money. I just want to grow my business because I love what I do and I want to do so much more with it. I don't really want to ever retire.

From firsthand experience I know that the entire corporate and economic system was organically built-up over generations to keep new people out and the existing people, with their nepotistic leanings, in. But I also know that success can be achieved even when coming from nearly nothing. I completely understand that my situation is more of the exception to the rule. And there are so many different factors to success (or being blocked from success). So I would never have the audacity to even think "lulz why don't u get a job son?! Y U no just <insert condescending comment here>!"

TL;DR... I just wanted to say -- in America it's not impossible to obtain the success you want, even if it is improbable.

All good and well. But you probably would've attained even larger successes in Europe. Just sayin'.

 

[Barrett2]

It's funny that these threads are really in abundance while I'm reading Perfectly Legal which goes into how the tax structure fucks the working poor more and more, and subsidizes the already rich.

The owner / investor of the company I work for makes roughly $6 million per year, and literally pays 5% in federal income tax. When you go down the rabbit hole of tax breaks and incentives offered to rich people, it's pretty goddamn insane.

Meanwhile, im' only allowed to write-off $2,500 per year in student loan payments, and in the event of catastrophic financial problems, my student loans are never dischargeable in bankruptcy. Hell of a system.

 

[Slavik81]

All good and well. But you probably would've attained even larger successes in Europe. Just sayin'.

There's a pretty big difference between 'greater success' and 'more likely to attain success'. Given the outcome he has achieved, I'm not sure he would have done better in the end. It just might have been easier or less risky.

That said, it is true that even if you achieve success, there may still be room for improvement.

 

[Dead Man]

The owner / investor of the company I work for makes roughly $6 million per year, and literally pays 5% in federal income tax. When you go down the rabbit hole of tax breaks and incentives offered to rich people, it's pretty goddamn insane.

Meanwhile, im' only allowed to write-off $2,500 per year in student loan payments, and in the event of catastrophic financial problems, my student loans are never dischargeable in bankruptcy. Hell of a system.

What the hell? Who thought that was good idea?

 

[Zaptruder]

There's a pretty big difference between 'greater success' and 'more likely to attain success'. Given the outcome he has achieved, I'm not sure he would have done better in the end. It just might have been easier or less risky.

That said, it is true that even if you achieve success, there may still be room for improvement.

You seem quite certain of this.

 

[Kabouter]

All good and well. But you probably would've attained even larger successes in Europe. Just sayin'.

Why?

 

[shanshan310]

What the hell? Who thought that was good idea?

My thoughts exactly. So messed up.

 

[Barrett2]

What the hell? Who thought that was good idea?

Banks lobbied for it, so Congress gave it to them in 2005. The only things not dischargeable in bankruptcy in the US are: back taxes, child support, government fines, alimony, and student loans.

One of those things is not like the other....

 

[Dead Man]

Banks lobbied for it, so Congress gave it to them in 2005. The only things not dischargeable in bankruptcy in the US are: back taxes, child support, government fines, alimony, and student loans.

One of those things is not like the other....

Indeed. Utter rubbish.

 

[Zaptruder]

Why?

Because he has expressed valuable qualities (such as perseverance and a can do attitude) that could have been further developed or enhanced under a more socialist system that allows for easier access to greater educational and training opportunities would allow him to take those skills, qualities and traits and achieved, quite possibly, even broader success.

Of course, there's a large chance that the hardships that he endured, made possible by the unique American culture forged his character and his traits and has allowed him to be as successful as he has... but that kinda thing says less about the system then it does about him.

 

[Slavik81]

You seem quite certain of this.

Not really, but I think so for a couple reasons. First, the advantages he'd get from being in Europe are mostly things that would help him start the business, not expand it. I doubt that Jackson's education is still a bottleneck to his company's growth, and his economic background prior to founding the company is no longer relevant. Secondly, I think the North American market for his games is bigger and more uniform than Europe's (though I certainly may be mistaken).

 

[Zaptruder]

Not really, but I think so for a couple reasons. First, the advantages he'd get from being in Europe are mostly things that would help him start the business, not expand it. I doubt that Jackson's education is still a bottleneck to his company's growth, and his economic background prior to founding the company is no longer relevant. Secondly, I think the North American market for his games is bigger and more uniform than Europe's (though I certainly may be mistaken).

Ah shit. Kinda skimmed his post, so didn't even pick up on the fact that he was... who he was

Yeah, that (I'm completely wrong in this instance) is a fair enough call!

I was kinda just throwing in a pithy counterpoint to anecdote ;o

 

[HarryHengst]

What the hell? Who thought that was good idea?

I give you one guess.

 

[RJT]

What the hell? Who thought that was good idea?

I'm not saying I agree with it, but there is a logic reasoning for it: you can't take the education out of a person, so there would be an incentive for you to bankrupt yourself (unlike a house or a car, which you will lose when you bankrupt).

1. Get a Student Loan
2. Bankrupt yourself
3. Start with a clean sheet
..
4. Profit!

I rather like the idea of have reimbursement of student loans be indexed to your wage, though. It would be less risky for people and would make loans for training of unnecessary skills much more difficult to obtain.

 

[el retorno]

I rather like the idea of have reimbursement of student loans be indexed to your wage, though. It would be less risky for people and would make loans for training of unnecessary skills much more difficult to obtain.

I think even Milton Friedman supported an idea like this. The government pay your schooling and then you pay back depending on what you make.

 

[Devolution]

The owner / investor of the company I work for makes roughly $6 million per year, and literally pays 5% in federal income tax. When you go down the rabbit hole of tax breaks and incentives offered to rich people, it's pretty goddamn insane.

Meanwhile, im' only allowed to write-off $2,500 per year in student loan payments, and in the event of catastrophic financial problems, my student loans are never dischargeable in bankruptcy. Hell of a system.

Yeah I'm getting into the various tax shelter/charitable donations deals that allows people like Gates to retain hundreds of millions without paying a single tax on the sum. Then you have capital gains taxes which are a joke, so they can just hide money in investments.

 

[HarryHengst]

I'm not saying I agree with it, but there is a logic reasoning for it: you can't take the education out of a person, so there would be an incentive for you to bankrupt yourself (unlike a house or a car, which you will lose when you bankrupt).

1. Get a Student Loan
2. Bankrupt yourself
3. Start with a clean sheet
..
4. Profit!

I rather like the idea of have reimbursement of student loans be indexed to your wage, though. It would be less risky for people and would make loans for training of unnecessary skills much more difficult to obtain.

Loads of countries allow a bankruptcy to get rid of student debt, and i've never heard of massive use of this loophole to get rid of it. Then again, pretty much no other country has student loans the size the US forces on students, so i guess that might make things different.

 

[Wazzim]

The owner / investor of the company I work for makes roughly $6 million per year, and literally pays 5% in federal income tax. When you go down the rabbit hole of tax breaks and incentives offered to rich people, it's pretty goddamn insane.

5%? He would get taxed 52% here lol, funny to see how big the difference is.