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[Foxix Von]

Fuuuucking shit. I gotta stop accidentally mousing over spoilers.

GOD Damnit!

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Edit: I read the review on your blog, and I kind of see where you are coming from. Also speaking of it, you read way, way too much into its design flaws. I won't say your assumptions are completely off base, but I don't think the director is as much of a troll as you think he is. Looking at Nier, he wants his fans to have an enjoyable experience. Sure Old Nier might be an attempt to troll SE, but I don't think he would include heavy design flaws that push people away from his games for some petty point to make. That would be an insult to his fans and his development team. I highly doubt he gathered the development team as like, "Okay, we are totally going to troll the fuck out of people/SE." Cavia wasn't that high profile or experienced as a developer at the time, and it was his first time directing, as far as I know. Occam's Razor applies to this situation.

Drakengard 2 is also a superior game in nearly every respect(yes I'm ignoring story/characters here). Sure that's partly because it does away with the more legendary aspects of the original(like that finale) but things such as mechanics and structure got a substantial improvement as well. Though in all fairness there's a number of things the sequel could have done in a less dickish fashion. Believe me I think the first game is still amazing but the depths that it goes to is far beyond something as simple as incompetence. Sure it's also likely they didn't care and in a way that makes sense since the experience and story are what makes Drakengard 1 memorable. The game is at least playable and for the most part is a tolerable piece of work. All the same there are so many factors that point towards the feeling that "Hey! As long as you're playing this game we're going to find some new way of getting under your skin."

Admittedly at the time of writing that review I was bitter, mainly due to Drakengard 1 itself and finding out what happens at the end of Nier(or at least what the director says, after all of the endings and all of the lost saves). So the way I figure he's a brilliant dude and the industry needs more people like him but all the same he can go fuck himself. I'll decide for myself how the story goes and make my own interpretations.

Cavia as a developer was known for dickery. Again I praise them for keeping away from the norm and doing their own thing but I remain aloof because they have proved themselves over and over again to be unreliable in how they see gamers. It's nothing to the point where it has affected the relationships they've had with so many publishers but it's there if you've played enough of their games for long enough. In any case I think it was more fun this way. Most developers are so predictable I'm not even sure why I bother to play their games. Everything is handed out the same way and I feel like I'm just filling/emptying bars and slapping buttons until the credits roll. At least with Cavia just when I thought I knew what to expect they pulled something on me. I can't even look at something as straightforward and banal as Beatdown: Fists of Vengeance without believing there's some sort of symbolism or discussion behind it all.

 

[Risette]

Is there any difference between PS3 or 360 versions for this game? I'm looking at getting the 360 version since all the PS3 one is OOS on Gamestop.com btw.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Drakengard 2 is also a superior game in nearly every respect(yes I'm ignoring story/characters here). Sure that's partly because it does away with the more legendary aspects of the original(like that finale) but things such as mechanics and structure got a substantial improvement as well. Though in all fairness there's a number of things the sequel could have done in a less dickish fashion. Believe me I think the first game is still amazing but the depths that it goes to is far beyond something as simple as incompetence. Sure it's also likely they didn't care and in a way that makes sense since the experience and story are what makes Drakengard 1 memorable. The game is at least playable and for the most part is a tolerable piece of work. All the same there are so many factors that point towards the feeling that "Hey! As long as you're playing this game we're going to find some new way of getting under your skin."

Admittedly at the time of writing that review I was bitter, mainly due to Drakengard 1 itself and finding out what happens at the end of Nier(or at least what the director says, after all of the endings and all of the lost saves). So the way I figure he's a brilliant dude and the industry needs more people like him but all the same he can go fuck himself. I'll decide for myself how the story goes and make my own interpretations.

Cavia as a developer was known for dickery. Again I praise them for keeping away from the norm and doing their own thing but I remain aloof because they have proved themselves over and over again to be unreliable in how they see gamers. It's nothing to the point where it has affected the relationships they've had with so many publishers but it's there if you've played enough of their games for long enough. In any case I think it was more fun this way. Most developers are so predictable I'm not even sure why I bother to play their games. Everything is handed out the same way and I feel like I'm just filling/emptying bars and slapping buttons until the credits roll. At least with Cavia just when I thought I knew what to expect they pulled something on me. I can't even look at something as straightforward and banal as Beatdown: Fists of Vengeance without believing there's some sort of symbolism or discussion behind it all.

Drakengard 2 definitely improves in the soundtrack department. It's one of the finest videogame soundtracks ever made.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Drakengard 2 definitely improves in the soundtrack department. It's one of the finest videogame soundtracks ever made.

This is true. Though I will say that Drakengard 1 has the perfect soundtrack for the game it accompanies. Somehow if part 1 were to have part 2's music it would probably be more of a mindfuck than it already is.

 

[The Shadow]

I would say most people who are not in their 20s would have no idea why Nier features

Spoiler

text adventures

.

I think that's why I find Nier the game so charming. I really liked those nods to other games like Resident Evil, old text adventures, and Zelda. The text adventure part though, I can see not flying with a younger generation. Probably why they limited it to just three short "stories".

I find that if you only insist on creator's visions solely and discount what works better, you end up with George Lucas situations.

Edit: I love the idea that you can only get stronger between the ages of 16 - 21 AND THEN NEVER AGAIN.

It's give or take. Sometimes you have a creator's vision that's totally pissed on and passed around like a cheap whore so the original is only vaguely there, IE, the "Hollywood effect". Other times, you have producers like Gary Kurtz who limit the original creator's vision to great benefit. With Gary Kurtz, you have Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back. Without him, you have Return of the Jedi and the new trilogies.

The original creator's unfettered intent isn't always the best. In this game, the change, and let's face it story-wise it's a very minimal one, was a better change. I probably wouldn't mind Nier with a younger androgynous protagonist. It would still be a fun game. I definitely couldn't see eye to eye with him though, like I can with the older Nier, simply because the father/daughter relationship is far more real and it's easier to see a desperate father fighting to save his daughter.

And like I said before, I fucking hate, HATE, that androgynous look in the previous gen. Would have set Nier back as far as I'm concerned.

 

[pancakesandsex]

From a famitsu interview:

Spoiler

"Replicant and Gestalt are not parallel worlds. But are distinct patterns in an ever-repeating world. The main character and Yonah are sometimes siblings, and sometimes father and daughter. The difference in time changes reflects that."

They are both cannon, now can you all please shut the fuck up about this?

 

[ZephyrFate]

I'm just glad the one America got was an older guy who fits the badass look better.

Anyway, in regards to the stories... I thought the one about the

Spoiler

City of Art

was just fucking fantastic. It's so beautifully written, and original, too!

 

[The Shadow]

From a famitsu interview:

Spoiler

"Replicant and Gestalt are not parallel worlds. But are distinct patterns in an ever-repeating world. The main character and Yonah are sometimes siblings, and sometimes father and daughter. The difference in time changes reflects that."

They are both cannon, now can you all please shut the fuck up about this?

Nier is a video game. This is a video game forum. We're having a discussion.

Deal with it.

I'm just glad the one America got was an older guy who fits the badass look better.

Anyway, in regards to the stories... I thought the one about the

Spoiler

City of Art

was just fucking fantastic. It's so beautifully written, and original, too!

Yeah, my favorite part too. If you've played Mission Critical, it reminded me of that for some reason. It just has that older hard sci-fi feeling about it. Like something Ray Bradbury would write.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

question:

Spoiler

I'm in the forest of myth in the second part of the game (I just killed a robot with a shadow controlling in in basement 2) how far off am I? I'm 18 hours in

Depends on what order you're doing things in, but

Spoiler

The junkyard was the only long dungeon, really. You're closing in, I'd say maybe two to three hours just on the main quest. Possibly more.

 

[dili]

The original creator's unfettered intent isn't always the best. In this game, the change, and let's face it story-wise it's a very minimal one, was a better change. I probably wouldn't mind Nier with a younger androgynous protagonist. It would still be a fun game. I definitely couldn't see eye to eye with him though, like I can with the older Nier, simply because the father/daughter relationship is far more real and it's easier to see a desperate father fighting to save his daughter.

I think to say that the replacement of the original Nier into Old Nier resulted in an objectively better experieince would be very untruthful. Most people I've seen say they wish they would have gotten Nier Replicant instead because it's closer to Yoko Taro's original vision and that Gestalt was made in a cheap and obvious attempt to cater to the western mainstream audience.

The George Lucas comparison really doesn't work here. Taro Yoko's creative limitations came in the form of Square approaching him and having him make something more marketable to the mainstream in the west even after development had already begun, rather than anyone challenging the ideas in his script. GL himself has proven to be a very incompetent story teller and his writing abilities are really only as good as the people he surrounds himself with. Doesn't Spielberg continue to get flack from people till this day over A.I. and being accused to not remaining faithful to Kubrick's original intent for the film and its ending?

I think respecting the artist's intent is very important. I have no problem playing as an old man in MGS4, just as I have no problem playing as a boy/young man in NieR Replicant. My problem lies in the fact it's very clear that the storyline was created with Nier Replicant in mind, after which Nier Gestalt was shoehorned into the game in a shameless attempt to appeal to the fratcore audience and compromises were made to the game's storyline. I admire them for still pulling off something respectable, even with those limitations imposed, but, it should have never been done in the first place, and the game's original concept should have went through. Heck I'm sure it also would have sold more this way as well.

The reasons I've seen in this thread say it all: "Gestalt is more bad ass" or "Replicant is too girly for my narrow-minded tastes"
It's part of the reason why creativity in this medium continues to dwindle and we're continuously being forcefed this "dudebro" tripe in every game. Modern gamers have shown they are less willing to accept games that don't feature some overly macho main character and ignore games like Mirror's Edge, that feature a realistic female character, because it instead doesn't have a character the mainstream audience can identify themselves with.

 

[ZephyrFate]

In contrast, most people I've seen who learned of younger Nier were absolutely jubilant that we got a character that goes against tropes.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Oh for God's sake.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I think to say that the replacement of the original Nier into Old Nier resulted in an objectively better experieince would be very untruthful. Most people I've seen say they wish they would have gotten Nier Replicant instead because it's closer to Yoko Taro's original vision and that Gestalt was made in a cheap and obvious attempt to cater to the western mainstream audience.

The George Lucas comparison really doesn't work here. Taro Yoko's creative limitations came in the form of Square approaching him and having him make something more marketable to the mainstream in the west even after development had already begun, rather than anyone challenging the ideas in his script. GL himself has proven to be a very incompetent story teller and his writing abilities are really only as good as the people he surrounds himself with. Doesn't Spielberg continue to get flack from people till this day over A.I. and being accused to not remaining faithful to Kubrick's original intent for the film and its ending?

I think respecting the artist's intent is very important. I have no problem playing as an old man in MGS4, just as I have no problem playing as a boy/young man in NieR Replicant. My problem lies in the fact it's very clear that the storyline was created with Nier Replicant in mind, after which Nier Gestalt was shoehorned into the game in a shameless attempt to appeal to the fratcore audience and compromises were made to the game's storyline. I admire them for still pulling off something respectable, even with those limitations imposed, but, it should have never been done in the first place, and the game's original concept should have went through. Heck I'm sure it also would have sold more this way as well.

The reasons I've seen in this thread say it all: "Gestalt is more bad ass" or "Replicant is too girly for my narrow-minded tastes"
It's part of the reason why creativity in this medium continues to dwindle and we're continuously being forcefed this "dudebro" tripe in every game. Modern gamers have shown they are less willing to accept games that don't feature some overly macho main character and ignore games like Mirror's Edge, that feature a realistic female character, because it instead doesn't have a character the mainstream audience can identify themselves with.

No, you've seen people say they like the father/daughter story more, they feel the change was for the better due to that reason, and that they generally prefer that design for the resonance they feel with the story more than they otherwise would.

That you choose to ignore that in favor of the very public, very embarrassing persecution complex you're displaying here speaks more about you than it does other people.

 

[Syril]

In contrast, most people I've seen who learned of younger Nier were absolutely jubilant that we got a character that goes against tropes.

You got that right. Having a parent as an RPG hero was one of the main reasons I bought this game.

 

[ultron87]

Really liking the game so far, but I definitely can see where a lot of criticisms are coming from.

Are there any sidequests that I actually should look out for in this game? Because they mostly seem to suck at this point/remind me too much of quests from World of Warcraft.

And is there use for all the plants and ore and miscellaneous stuff I'm picking up constantly? I guess you can like grow stuff and whatnot from the seeds? Is there a reason to actually do that?

 

[Clear]

Here's the important thing:

The smartest creative decision in Nier is to minimize back-story detail and exposition and instead focus almost completely on the characters and their motivations.

Because of this is doesn't really matter whether its dad Nier or brother Nier, what defines both characters is their desire to protect Yonah at all costs.

Its not who, or what you are, or certainly how you look that matters - it's what you do that counts.

If you don't get that, or can't get past the irrelevance of appearances, then I think you've missed the whole point of the story.

 

[Zachack]

Are there any sidequests that I actually should look out for in this game? Because they mostly seem to suck at this point/remind me too much of quests from World of Warcraft.

The quest where you make a drink for Popola is worth doing and not too hard if you just get every lizard/rat you come across.

And is there use for all the plants and ore and miscellaneous stuff I'm picking up constantly? I guess you can like grow stuff and whatnot from the seeds? Is there a reason to actually do that?

Ore and misc stuff can upgrade weapons. I beat the game without doing anything of note with the seeds/plants. I would tend to argue that neither were important provided that the weapon style you prefer has a good weapon you can find.

A lot depends on how many endings/achievements you want, though. I beat A and B but youtube'd C and D, which require getting all the weapons. I think the people who tried to 100% the game should have spent their time elsewhere (this goes for a lot of games in general but heavily for Neir).

In short, if you just want to get the meat of the experience that everyone is discussing then you don't need to do any of the farming or the side quests.

 

[Zachack]

How could you miss that two major characters in the story are talking books? That the spells you acquire are "verses", the upgrades/buffs are words, that many of the bosses are named after characters in children's storybooks, etc ?

I didn't miss that, I said that they went nowhere with it. You even confirm this with the famitsu quote. The first half (or third depending on how critical Ending B is to someone) of the game really pointed to a different game than the back half, with a lot more gameplay variation and focus on the whole "book/story" aspect.

In a lot of ways it felt like Cavia made the first third of the game, then decided to completely change the story but didn't want to dump the assets they had already made, so they recycled everything for the latter portions and created a story that practically rejects the first third since you never replay it again (and this would be further emphasized in C and D playthroughs).

Clearly along the way this was jettisoned and the more SF-themed linkage to Drakengard replaced it, but the function remains.

I disagree (unless I missed some hidden text somewhere in the game). Aspects of the original intent do remain but after the time skip they are mostly abandoned. In particular, Grimoire Noir is almost totally unused.

Its clear to me that there are obvious parallels to be found in the black and white moral certitude of traditional JRPG plots and those found in classical children's fiction.

Sure, but...

Spoiler

Nier is all about deconstructing that simplistic world-view by showing the horrible consequences and collateral damage that ensues from the single-minded pursuit of an honorable goal.

Spoiler

I feel the game did a somewhat poor job of showing this (outside of the Aerie). Particularly, I think the notion that what Neir did had horrible consequences somewhat ignores that the world is basically already doomed unless the Shadowlord managed to do... something. Some shades were capable of conscious thought but the notion that the vast majority had gone feral somewhat undermined the idea that going around slaughtering them was some terrible tragedy.

Spoiler

In NG+ our perspective is shifted mainly through words alone; suddenly being able to hear what the shades are saying (a contrivance explained in the "plot dump" at the start of NG+) suddenly casts what we (the players) are responsible for previously enjoying in a different and significantly darker light.

Yes there are additional cut-scenes, but they are only meaningful because we now -like Kaine- can hear the shades' words. This is a dramatic mechanism that can only work on a second cycle, because its neccessary that we were as oblivious and mindlessly destructive as Nier is. The words are all important and powerful because they alter our perception.

Spoiler

Actually I'd say it was more through the expanded cutscenes than the text. Just being able to hear the shades would have implied that some of them weren't mindless, but Hansel, Cerebus, and Iron Giant (can't remember the name) were heavily expanded upon in the cutscenes, and in many cases could have probably been conveyed without the ability to understand what was said. Hansel is probably the only one that really needed expanded text to avoid more costly cutscenes.

Spoiler

Returning to the Forest Of Myth arc, on one hand we have the obvious humour of the meta-ness of a fictional character that is a living book, acidly commenting on being trapped in a collapsing world of words, but there's some real substance to the way that parallels are drawn between words as thought, as stored computer data, as memory...

Spoiler

Which is generally abandoned due to the apparent desire to connect the game to Drakengard. I agree that the game was going towards what you're describing, but it jettisons most of it by the end except in the most cursory ways.

Spoiler

Probably the single most brilliant moment in the game is during the second "battle" in the tree where words are used to foreshadow the climactic revelation of the Gestalt/Replicant schism. The duality of the "tree" and the "shade" (for they are one and the same in the text) being a metaphor for consciouness and physical identity is an amazingly literary conceit which I'd never expect to find in a mainstream video-game.

I thought it was clever, but just that. I dunno, I guess I've found it easier as games have progressed to easily assign themes/concepts/etc as their capacity to deliver information has expanded. The thread had moved on by the time I saw it but the brewing argument regarding Bioware/Alan Wake/Deadly Premonition fit into this as well.

Lost Odyssey's novel sections were often beautifully written and resonant, but objectively speaking the text sections in Nier are not only far more complex but better and more organically integrated into the overall storyline both thematically and narratively.

Keep in mind when I complain about the text I'm referring specifically to the beginning of the first replay, and not the text adventure bits. I viewed that section as Cavia trying to get more plot in without having to actually create new assets, and not as some sort of expanded statement. A lot of the Kaine stuff, in my opinion, was poorly handled, starting with the outfit.

 

[Clear]

@Zachack

First of all, sorry if I sounded condescending about the book "theme", my intention was just to express how riddled the game is with references to books and words but it came across overly douchy. My apologies.

Its very hard for me to pin-down quite why Nier worked so well for me; I guess I'm just a fan of Yokoo's warped sensibilities!

The big thing I guess would be to suggest as "further reading" the long-play of Drakengard and the Grimoire Nier translation project.

There's a LOT of stuff there, but its pretty entertaining in its own right (the LP is hilariously trollish but shows how elaborately twisted the plot and structure of Drakengard is) and majorly expands the worldview of both the fiction and creation of Nier.

Its good stuff, I heartily recommend.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I just can't understand how someone could not be enamored by just how fantastic the writing is in the text sections. It's baffling me, and I'm an English major who adores complicated literature and prose.

 

[Femmeworth]

Keep in mind when I complain about the text I'm referring specifically to the beginning of the first replay, and not the text adventure bits. I viewed that section as Cavia trying to get more plot in without having to actually create new assets, and not as some sort of expanded statement. A lot of the Kaine stuff, in my opinion, was poorly handled, starting with the outfit.

I thought the way they went about Kaine's backstory was perfect. It would not have been as effective to me if it were explianed through cutscenes. The written sections in Nier are really fantastic, and I wish more games did it. Though, it could have been better if they had Laura Bailey read it.

Thanks for the reply, PepsimanVsJoe.

Edit: I really think there should have been another text sequence to further develop The Aerie during the second half.

Spoiler

The final battle there isn't as potent as it should be. The obligatory "Oh noes! Kaine!" moment doesn't help either. The Aerie just didn't feel fleshed out enough.

 

[FlyinJ]

Does the majority of the music in the game have lyrics? I've been to 4 major overland areas and a big dungeon, and every song that played so far had lyrics.

I don't understand how anyone could not go crazy listening to the same lyrics sang over and over for hours while playing an RPG.

 

[AKingNamedPaul]

Question. I have just been using the attach best words on every magic spell and weapon I have equipped which gives me mostly knockback defense, magic defense, drop rate, attack boost ect. Do these effects stack? It seems like a waste having poison and para when I have to substitute something the game is telling me is better. I guess it has to do with how you kill the enemy? For example having a word attached to my sword will only give me the effects when I kill an enemy with my sword?

Any Insight would be helpful.

 

[ashbash159]

I will have this game in about 5 hours. I don't know what to expect.

 

[ivysaur12]

I will have this game in about 5 hours. I don't know what to expect.

I was actually thinking about picking it up within the week, kind of in the same boat.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Does the majority of the music in the game have lyrics? I've been to 4 major overland areas and a big dungeon, and every song that played so far had lyrics.

I don't understand how anyone could not go crazy listening to the same lyrics sang over and over for hours while playing an RPG.

It's a futuristic language compiled of Japanese, German, French, and a bunch of other languages. The songs are of such high quality and the singing is so damn good that it's no wonder everyone loves it.

 

[Liabe Brave]

Question. I have just been using the attach best words on every magic spell and weapon I have equipped ...Do these effects stack? ...For example having a word attached to my sword will only give me the effects when I kill an enemy with my sword?

Only the martial arts words are passive, always-there effects. I don't believe they stack with each other; at least I never noticed any stat changes. Yes to your second question: the words on weapons and magic only kick in when you actually use the weapon or magic. In the case of "extra XP" or "more items" words, only the killing method counts; if you hit an enemy with "extra XP" magic and then kill them with a "more items" sword, you get normal XP and a higher drop rate.

All this is from my own experience; I could be wrong.

 

[InfiniteNine]

Just bought this today so I think I'll pop it in tomorrow morning. Looking forward to it and my queen Kaine.

 

[Femmeworth]

Does the majority of the music in the game have lyrics? I've been to 4 major overland areas and a big dungeon, and every song that played so far had lyrics.

I don't understand how anyone could not go crazy listening to the same lyrics sang over and over for hours while playing an RPG.

I played through Persona 3 & 4. I can handle anything. :lol Some of the songs are on the repetitive side, though.

 

[Foxix Von]

I sort of wanted to make a LTTP thread but I guess it's a little early and this thread has been weirdly active lately so it doesn't seem necessary.

Anyway... game is strangely incredible. For 15 bucks I honestly was expecting a terrible GoW knock off with bad graphics but got a quirky RPG that plays like a mix of Zelda and Monster hunter. Why didn't anyone tell me about this game? :lol

I'm about 16 hours in and just got through Facade. This game has the most broad selection of well framed fetch quest I've ever seen outside of an MMO. Which is sort of weird. I find myself taking it slow and trying to get through them just for the character banter and the personality driving everything. I see the term "flawed" getting thrown out a lot, but the game is so shockingly self aware of everything that I can't help shake the feeling that what's wrong with the game might be intentional. I just did another side fetch quest where

Spoiler

you talk to this strange old guy talking about how precious and sweet his son is and you have to go find him. It then leads you on this long exhausting goose chase after him as he keeps eluding you. Only to find out that once you do get him back home you've led him back to a life of crime and he's run away with half the towns money and taken your reward money with him.

I've never been so furious at a game. Ever. Part of me was split with rage at this stupid game, and I wanted to punch to the TV. Yet at the same time I was absolutely amazed at the game's ability manipulate me and illicit such an intentional emotional response that no other game has ever managed. Which leaves me honestly impressed and enamored with the title in a very strange and uniquely furious way. It wasn't until that moment that I understood what people where saying when they talked about how the game berates the player and mocks you for trying to play it.

Despite that I'm still really enjoying the abusive fetch quests. :lol I'm also impressed with just how damn good the dialogue is. Everything in this game sort of feels like a throwback to something else, and I couldn't honestly point out anything in the game that feels legitimately bad. There's some things that are lacking in depth but the execution is fine, and to me simplicity doesn't necessitate that the fishing game or gardening is bad. I've spent a lot of time doing both so far and I kind of love fishing. It's so easy!

I also don't see the complaint about bad animation yet. I mean I guess you could say that the blocking is animation heavy and in the middle of a combo there is a definite delay between when you hit the button and Nier actually blocks. However, the enemies are the same way and they all broadcast their attacks WELL in advance so if I wasn't able to defend it really didn't feel cheap in anyway. That and even if you did miss the timing and get thrown, hitting the block button late lets you recover. It seems designed around this. His stone moving animation is super crazy too.

I actually LIKE the graphics in this game. They sort of remind me of FFXI which looked good for it's time. They aren't ugly to me I just sort of see them as dated. The level design, landscaping and music all sort of combine to offer a very unique sort of ethereal experience. I remember walking out into the northern hills and just sort of looking out into the hills and just thinking "wow that's pretty." The game has some of the best use of a soundtrack I've ever seen in anything.

Before I wrap up my impressions I want to comment on how amazing this game can be in how it presents itself using alternate camera angles. I remember reading a review that equated it's usage of genre flipping to the way film uses lighting and framing to establish a mood unique to it's medium and I definitely see that present. I can't count how many third person games try and do something with the camera angle and it just takes control away as I end up fiddling with the controller to figure out which way is forward. Yet here of all places everything controls well. Almost suspiciously so.

I know my impressions seem a little negative but let me get this out of the way. I love this game. Every moment of this is pure enjoyment so far. It's just that when I sit down and look at each individual element of the title I can't for the life of me figure out why. The way it changes it's gameplay hat every few moments just feels like one big love letter to video gaming. I don't know if I can recommend it to everyone, but man I think if you've been gaming for a long time and have been around the genre blocks there's really so much that this game offers that's just so... different. It shows just how much can be done with an RPG backbone without stripping out what makes the core tick.

Spoiler

I'm looking at you mass effect.

Also: Nick Nolte Nier is best Nier. Consider me part of the Nier cult. Or is it Nier Defence Force-1?

Regardless, where's the Kool-Aid at?

 

[John Rabbit]

not enough praise for 8-4 up in this thread. this game would not be quite the amazing story it is without their amazing translation job.

 

[Papercuts]

Just got Ending B last night.

Spoiler

The part with the wolves killed me. Facade is my favorite part of the game.

 

[bluedeviltron]

I'm 100% sure I'll regret it, but I'm picking it up tonight after work.

I have to see what all this hype is about.

 

[Foxix Von]

I'm 100% sure I'll regret it, but I'm picking it up tonight after work.

I have to see what all this hype is about.

I thought I would too but I'm currently typing this with Nier's cupid arrow sticking out of my left butt cheek so good luck.

Just keep an open mind and try to appreciate it for the things it does very, very right.

 

[Femmeworth]

not enough praise for 8-4 up in this thread. this game would not be quite the amazing story it is without their amazing translation job.

They did do an impressive job, but sometimes the dialogue is a bit too silly. Though that is most likely due to the original script. However, I think they really nailed the text sections.

I sort of wanted to make a LTTP thread but I guess it's a little early and this thread has been weirdly active lately so it doesn't seem necessary.

I have been trying to find excuses for bumping this, so more people get exposed to it and buy it. :3

 

[Zachack]

@Zachack

First of all, sorry if I sounded condescending about the book "theme", my intention was just to express how riddled the game is with references to books and words but it came across overly douchy. My apologies.

No problem, and I got those references. Up until the game completely shifts gears at the time jump I was assuming that the black scrawl, the grimoires, the verse hunting, the shades, the changes in gameplay style, the world, etc were going to coalesce into a sort of language-DNA-reality thing (I half assumed that the game would wind up being a story in Noir that Neir was reading in the past inside the market). Outside of the second Forest of Myth bit (and ending D, which I want to say comes completely out of nowhere unless I missed something) I didn't feel the post-jump game really explored that. I am somewhat interested in reading the other backstory stuff found elsewhere but there are only so many hours in the day and I think I got enough out of the game to pass.

I just can't understand how someone could not be enamored by just how fantastic the writing is in the text sections. It's baffling me, and I'm an English major who adores complicated literature and prose.

I found the section in question to be uncomplicated, simple to read, and overlong, and the content to be either somewhat tired or, IMO, poorly meshing with the established world as defined by the ending and her character. Some of this does revolve around what I consider an extremely poor design decision in the character model (and a few cutscenes that seemed to go for style or reference over anything else).

edit: in a lot of ways I think Kaine's added backstory was unnecessary and somewhat detrimental given that the game doesn't really follow through with her status. The existing information provided prior to Ending A was sufficient to explain most of her behavior and I think the extra ability granted to the player in the second playthrough could have been easily explained in different ways that better meshed with the book concept.

I thought the way they went about Kaine's backstory was perfect. It would not have been as effective to me if it were explianed through cutscenes.

It could have been incorporated through conversations in the game. I'm baffled that pages of black screen with white text is viewed as perfect by anyone, particularly given Kaine's unique "status". Everything else associated with Ending B has some sort of extra cutscene or in-action dialogue attached to (ideally) shift perspective. You may as well say that the Cerebus or Hansel additions could have been better off as the same thing prior to reentering Facade or the Temple.

 

[Femmeworth]

It could have been incorporated through conversations in the game. I'm baffled that pages of black screen with white text is viewed as perfect by anyone, particularly given Kaine's unique "status". Everything else associated with Ending B has some sort of extra cutscene attached to (ideally) shift perspective.

The extra cutscenes were a bit ham-fisted and underdeveloped to me. Contrasted to that, I definitely prefer the textual exposition. However, I still really like it regardless.

I found the section in question to be uncomplicated, simple to read, and overlong, and the content to be either somewhat tired or, IMO, poorly meshing with the established world as defined by the ending and her character. Some of this does revolve around what I consider an extremely poor design decision in the character model (and a few cutscenes that seemed to go for style or reference over anything else).

I will agree that there is a definite disparity between the contents of the text and the rest of the game. For instance,

Spoiler

I really, really disliked all of Kaine's near death experiences. Once was okay, but they overdid it. Not to mention that they make her vulnerable side way too obvious.

It doesn't help that Kaine's design undermines her character.

 

[Lard]

My copy arrived today. I'll try it out tonight.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I have no problem with Kaine's design. I found her to be an incredibly well-developed character, especially given that she's a woman in a Japanese videogame.

And I thought the extra cutscenes in Ending B were emotionally intense.

 

[Zachack]

The extra cutscenes were a bit ham-fisted and underdeveloped to me.

I also agree with this. I think what I liked most was the additional dialogue during combat sequences. In a lot of ways I think Nier shot for the stars and fell far short, but I liked it because I sometimes enjoy witnessing an A for Effort. It's sort of a flip of Deadly Premonition IMO in that DP aimed for an easy target and then floored it past that into crazy town.

edit: saw your edit, and strongly agree with the spoilered part. I felt that the game had a lot of things like that which came at odds with a coherent world.

 

[Coldsnap]

Quick question: I was told by a friend if I wanted to get the 15 hour achievement just skip the side quests on my first playthrough but do the two gardening quests "Shopping List" "A Return to Shopping". How come I should do this?

 

[Femmeworth]

Quick question: I was told by a friend if I wanted to get the 15 hour achievement just skip the side quests on my first playthrough but do the two gardening quests "Shopping List" "A Return to Shopping". How come I should do this?

You have to do at least "Shopping List" to be able to farm, and "A Return to Shopping" expands your farm. However, farming isn't really necessary, especially if you are trying to do a speed run.

 

[Coldsnap]

You have to do at least "Shopping List" to be able to farm, and "A Return to Shopping" expands your farm. However, farming isn't really necessary, especially if you are trying to do a speed run.

Maybe the quests become unavailable after awhile and they cannot be done during the second playthrough? That is just my guess.

 

[Lard]

I'm on the first boss battle.

Cannot kill the boss. What the fuck is with this clock above its head?

Do I have to just keep pounding the boss? Do I have to jump up and specifically hit the clock?

It's already killed me once because it just continually regains its health and hits me.

I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Already unimpressed.

 

[john tv]

I'm on the first boss battle.

Cannot kill the boss. What the fuck is with this clock above its head?

Do I have to just keep pounding the boss? Do I have to jump up and specifically hit the clock?

It's already killed me once because it just continually regains its health and hits me.

I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Already unimpressed.

LOL. Yes, hit the clock. It's not that hard to figure out. The numbers on the clock (or whatever it displays, I forget) disappear as you register damage. You need to get rid of all of them to defeat the boss.

 

[ZephyrFate]

I'm on the first boss battle.

Cannot kill the boss. What the fuck is with this clock above its head?

Do I have to just keep pounding the boss? Do I have to jump up and specifically hit the clock?

It's already killed me once because it just continually regains its health and hits me.

I don't know what I'm supposed to do. Already unimpressed.

It's telling you to hit the weak spot...

 

[Lard]

The problem is that the weak spot is up on its head. Do I need to jump? Climb on the creature?

I understand I'm supposed to hit it, but it's not clear how I'm supposed to reach it, and I can't tell if I'm actually hitting it or not.

 

[ZephyrFate]

The problem is that the weak spot is up on its head. Do I need to jump? Climb on the creature?

I understand I'm supposed to hit it, but it's not clear how I'm supposed to reach it, and I can't tell if I'm actually hitting it or not.

You have magic... use Dark Blast.

 

[john tv]

The problem is that the weak spot is up on its head. Do I need to jump? Climb on the creature?

I understand I'm supposed to hit it, but it's not clear how I'm supposed to reach it, and I can't tell if I'm actually hitting it or not.

I usually just jump and whack it. You know you're hitting it because the gauge goes down (the numbers or whatever - again, it's been a while so I forget).