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Zach Braff wants your Kickstarter money for a Garden State follow up
- Thread starter Blablurn
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Foxy Fox 39
Banned
Here's an analogy. Hey Harvey pay us 6000 dollars for this wacom that has awesome touch sensitivity and really cool resolution. Btw this wacom may or may not have cool resolution and awesome touch sensitivity.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
This too...
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
In a heartbeat.
How do you know this could have gotten off the ground without funding? He is already putting a lot of his own money into it, and looking for foreign distribution rights to make money, but obviously he feels it's not enough to make his vision come to life. I'm not sure why internet people can make a judgement call on whether that funding was necessary or not.
Scenes aren't features. Every director knows when they start making a film that there will be a huge number of cuts made during editing. It'd be stupid to keep a scene in if it didn't work with the narrative of the film just for some extra appearances.
It used to be.
Imagine how many indie films there are on KS that could benefit from the $2+ million going to Braff's project. I'm not saying Braff is intentionally stealing their thunder, but the spirit of kickstarter was always about helping people who couldn't otherwise achieve their project goals.
Now it's for people who just want to minimize risk on large-scale projects they could otherwise achieve through other sources. Or, they transfer the financial risk to KS backers.
I can only assume my primary motivation for spending so much on a tablet like that would be sensitivity and resolution, so I wouldn't think that was a good deal and wouldn't buy it. If you were selling a tablet that might have great sensitivity and resolution and also threw in schematics and design documents and a cool meeting at the reveal in Las Vegas as well as allowed my $6000 to go toward ensuring the device is created, my decision might change. Am I a fan of the company and want to see their products offered on the market place?
As for this other nonsense, traditional funding wouldn't allow him to make the film he wants to make. Did anyone read any of this? He could not do this specific project without kickstarter.
Perhaps Braff could allay the fears of doubters by giving a rough budget, showing how much of his own chedda he's putting in along with the finance from other sources.
He doesn't have to, but it would be interesting to see. Because "his own money" could mean $100k or it could mean $5 million.
He doesn't have to, but it would be interesting to see. Because "his own money" could mean $100k or it could mean $5 million.
People like to meet their favorite celebrities, what can I say?
If you're giving money just because you want to be in a movie, that's stupid. Just go to LA or New York, sign-up with a casting agency that handles extras, and wait around. Not only does it not cost you $2500, but you'll get paid by the day as well. The appeal of that reward tier is clearly getting to be a part of a project you're interested in and see the principal players at work -- not "Dur I wuz in a movie one time!"
LyleLanley
Banned
I'll never truly know if this could have gotten off the ground via traditional funding but I get the impression that it could have. The video he posted for it came off kind of sleazy and didn't make me feel any better about the idea. Does anyone really believe that any studio in the world would not let him cast Jim Parsons?
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
When I originally read that specific tier yes it focused on having a spoken line. and at the end it said they may or may not be cut from the film. seems like he was just trying to think of cool things to entice people without actually committing. Why even mention it? Seems super unprofessional...he understands film can be fickle...I honestly think he just wanted to make it more exciting and thus receive potentially more money without the promise of actually following through for that tier.
Without the promise of following through? Do they not speak a line? I don't understand what you're saying. Did he promise someone something and then not do it? Or did he tell people precisely what they should expect and leave it up to them to decide if they want to spend their money?
Another thing I don't understand about any of this: what personal risk do some of you imagine a filmmaker takes on when another company funds their movie?
This is mostly offset by the fact that people like Rob Thomas and Braff are bringing thousands of new people to Kickstarter, and those people may contribute to future projects by less-established creators.
It's ridiculous logic anyway -- is the new GI Joe movie "intentionally stealing thunder" from The Place Beyond the Pines? Maybe in the most literal sense, but those two films are intended for entirely different audiences. I kinda doubt that Zach Braff Fantatic #29873 was going to seek out some mega-indie project on Kickstarter anyway. It's a bit of a stretch to claim that the 2M in funding would have actually gone to other Kickstarter film projects.
indigo-cyclops
Member
It is, now we'll be subjected to a bunch of other mediocre garbage from B-listers. Pledge your money to the numerous, impressive indie film efforts on there. Instead we get to see what Zach Braff has to say about romance and being a screenwriter, and all that.
You're over halfway there! I hope you'll make it.
True! Most people donate the first and last week anyway. We went silent during the craziness in Boston last week (we're all over Massachusetts).
element
Member
He explains pretty clear WHY he is using Kickstarter, in that he has explored other financing options but they all want control, either in casting or final cut. Hollywood investors (like any investor) wants to maximize their ROI.
I personally don't have a problem with this at all. Just another artist. He knows his audience. His audience wants what he has to offer and trust him to deliver on what he is promising.
There is already tons of crap on Kickstarter. People are supporting what they want. Let them. That is what the system is there for, for artist to put up a project and look for support. Do you really think Ouya needed Kickstarter? This is the second $2m movie after Veronica Mars, and Darci's Walk of Shame from Melissa Joan Hart is FAILING BAD. Projects people want get support. Projects people don't care about fail.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
Ah, so if I were to complain about an always online system (Next Nextbox) my voice and dissent would be pointless, because everyone knew what they were getting?
hoverboarder
Member
Love Garden State, love Scrubs. And after that awesome video he edited of him spending the day with foreign fans, I'm all for more Zach Braff. Bring back 2004!
It sucks he won't fund it himself (maybe to an extent he will) but I'm glad he's keeping his integrity. If Garden State could've been better with less intervention, I'll eagerly await this next film from him.
It sucks he won't fund it himself (maybe to an extent he will) but I'm glad he's keeping his integrity. If Garden State could've been better with less intervention, I'll eagerly await this next film from him.
indigo-cyclops
Member
Yikes...
Honestly I don't get the complaints at all. He lays it out quite clearly why he needs kickstarter and all of the rewards are realistic and honest. Garden State wasn't for everyone, and neither will this movie, and neither are all pledge rewards. Fortunately for Braff, a lot of people seem to want him to make this movie and don't care that the rewards are meager or whatever.
Analogies really fail here. We're talking about 50 extras and one "actor" who may not end up getting in to the final cut......not a tablet that is either missing features promised to everyone or a console with draconian DRM features that affect everyone. Unless you're considering actually pledging at the $2500/$10,000 level I don't see the need for much concern.
At least they were upfront about the possibility of winding up on the cutting room floor. I'm sure the extras that pledged to Veronica Mars probably share the same risk, but it was never made explicit.
Again you miss the point entirely. And the bolded parts are somewhat contradictory.
It's a hypothetical question - take $2 million from Braff's project and distribute it among smaller film projects. I didn't bring up people's interests, audiences, or other things.
The question wasn't "if" the money would have gone to other projects. It's a mathematical question based on a hypothetical scenario where you have a bunch of people who want to support indie movie projects.
Not to mention I literally wrote "I'm not saying Braff is intentionally stealing their thunder", but you saw these words and went off on a rant about it anyway. Sort of like above where I made a joke about pledging $2500 to get a thank you from Braff, and you went on a rant about how that's not the only reason people pledge. Yes, thanks for making that clear. I was under the impression people ONLY pledge $2500 to get a thanks from ZB.
element
Member
What if the US didn't spend the last 30 years on the war on drugs...
This whole debate is silly.
He asked for help to make the movie without outside influence. People like his previous movie enough to give him the support. End of story.
The war on drugs analogy doesn't work.
The nature of the matter is whether Braff actually needs this help or not. Yes, there are other kickstarters who also don't necessarily need crowdfunding to get their product made.
The only thing on which I might agree is that this discussion probably won't go anywhere since some of us think he doesn't need the help while others don't see an issue. Nobody's mind is going to really change here, but I think it's okay for people to share their thoughts.
I don't see the point of the hypothetical, if not to make the presumption that some large portion of the money would or could have gone to other projects. Imagine that everyone who ate at McDonald's this week spent the money on locally grown organic produce. Yeah, I guess it's a nice thought and all, but I'm not sure what the rhetorical point is in suggesting it, given the unlikeliness of such a scenario.
I don't expect any indie film renaissance from the followers of Rob Thomas and Zach Braff, but it's better to have them in the Kickstarter ecosystem rather than outside it. I imagine it's something of a hurdle just to get people to donate because they don't already have a login/password, or aren't sure what Kickstarter really is. This offers them a compelling reason to get involved, and a good experience with a reliable creator.
Are they really going to seek out another indie film and back it? Probably not, but they'll be around to donate to other mid-profile and high-profile projects like the Pebble Watch or whatever. And maybe when the next a local creator plasters the Starbucks bulletin board with their Kickstarter, the people drawn in by Thomas/Braff will l have some idea of what it's about and be ready to donate if they're interested.
If you guys want to complain about a kickstarter that shouldn't exist just look at the guys who did wasteland 2
They got 2.9 million for wasteland 2 with a goal of 900 thousand .
They have yet to do more than a single game play video in over a year but then they launched a second kickstarter !
THey launched and asked for 900 thousand again but this time got 4.2 million all without delivering a single game
So now they have over 7 million that could have gone to other games spread over 2 kickstarters with neither delieving more than a single game play video.
element
Member
I think he was pretty clear that he would have to change his movie too much if he involved outside funding. Which isn't the goal of something like this to allow artist find ways to create their vision without boundaries?
Does Braff have more money then majority of the people? Sure, but he isn't pulling Tom Cruise, Leonardo DiCaprio, or Johnny Depp type money.
Good to see someone with some sanity like border.
Big projects bring more people into the ecosystem, which in the end will help the validity of the ecosystem. While it might not help on a project today, it will expose people to a new way to look for content.
The Kickstarter bar has already been lowered pretty significantly. David Fincher did a Kickstarter for a $400,000 pitch reel of an animated feature he wants to make -- and the backers do not even get to see or own the pitch reel. It's merely a proof-of-concept for them to try and pitch the film to studios. Braff wants five times as much money, but at least he's turning out a film that backers will get to see (not to mention that he makes and has probably way less money than Fincher).
Like it or hate it, it seems pretty clear that some Kickstarters are now going to be more about mitigating risk and retaining creative control rather than "We couldn't get this made without you!" It's up to their users to determine how much risk is appropriate and how much control creators really need to retain.
Like it or hate it, it seems pretty clear that some Kickstarters are now going to be more about mitigating risk and retaining creative control rather than "We couldn't get this made without you!" It's up to their users to determine how much risk is appropriate and how much control creators really need to retain.
Sometimes I do kinda feel like Kickstarter ought to put a cap on overfunding, if only to discourage all this "hit the jackpot" stuff that encourages waste and oftentimes puts creators in over their heads.
Like maybe you can't earn more than twice your expected budget. At least it would encourage more careful budgeting.
keltickennedy
Member
This seems like some Amanda Palmer kickstater shinanigans. Not funding!!
Napoleonthechimp
Member
He said it depends on how much he raises.
That aspect of it really irritates me.
Some people nearly bankrupt themselves trying to get movies made but this piece of shit uses his Hollywood buddies as leverage.
Well people with connections tend to do better both in the film world and real world, who knew.
element
Member
No way. She just flat out stole money from people. Her cost justifications were outlandish. Having $1m for a record and tour is flat out insane. Then she had the balls to ask for non-union local talent at each show (because she didn't want to pay for a traveling band) and pay them with free beer and hugs.
cry me a river. an actor who knows other actors. shocking!!
I don't mind over funding , that's fine and if it can make the project better I'm all for it.
But before your able to launch a second kickstarter you should have to have met your obligations for your first one.
These guys have 2 kickstarters funded with one being a year old and hasn't delivered yet. If it doesn't hit in oct like they said , it will be fun to watch the shit storm that happens on both project's kickstarter pages
Napoleonthechimp
Member
"Hey guys, support my buddy in trying to get his film made. He's been really struggling lately and needs your help."
They can fuck right off. If they truly gave a shit then they could all pitch in and fund it entirely themselves.
To be fair, she only budgeted the project at $100,000. Which I guess seems pretty reasonable for cutting a record with a good producer and going on tour.
This is why I do often feel like there should be a cap on overfunding. 1 million for a record and a tour is ridiculous.
All that shit where she wanted people to be her backing musicians for free was also fucktarded.
element
Member
i dont see that. bitch bitch bitch.
I'd be fore that. Sometimes more money doesn't solve problems, it just adds more. Especially with people who aren't accustom to having large sums of money.
keltickennedy
Member
Kickstater should have people submit their latest tax return before even be considered to have a funded project. Lol.
People who get insanely overfunded are almost always expected to increase the scope of their project, and I don't think it's fair that they aren't ethically allowed to just enjoy those profits. Especially when increasing the scope can lead to failure and unforeseen issues.
At the very least, the total amount of donations should be invisible to users after it has exceeded two or three times the budget. I don't think you can make it past more than a page or two in any Tropes Versus Women thread without people complaining that "These YouTube videos don't look like they cost $150,00!" Well yeah, she promised videos that were budgeted at $6K...it's unreasonable to expect her to spend all the excess just because people chose to give more than was needed.
element
Member
I did some research into kickstarters and one thing that tend to get out of control is the cost of goods AND SHIPPING!! Holy shit! Shipping costs so much!
The guys at Hidden Path did a great breakdown on youtube, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X6mX-_8G7M
The guys at Hidden Path did a great breakdown on youtube, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X6mX-_8G7M
WordAssassin
Member
I wonder if MJH's kickstarter would have gone differently if it were for a Clarissa movie instead of some random whatever.
Also, did she add more time to it? It says it has 31 days left now but I could have sworn it had less the last time I looked.
Also, did she add more time to it? It says it has 31 days left now but I could have sworn it had less the last time I looked.
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