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Zelda: A Link Between Worlds |OT| All in all you're just another Link in the wall

K

Katzenjammer

Member
Koozek said:
Out of curiosity, how did you play so that the renting system made sense? Why wouldn't one rent all the items at the beginning?^^ It wasn't even that expensive - well, maybe my OCD in regards to mowing every bush/grass/enemy on every screen helped filling my pocket up early on.
I couldn't even die if I wanted to because I had fairies with me all the time, haha.
Basically the renting system made no sense for me. Maybe in Hero Mode.
The best evolution of this idea would be to just have Link get the basic items (bow, hook, bomb) from the start of the game for future Zeldas, as a few here already said.


Oh and yeah, the stamina system is the best new thing to come out of a recent Zelda IMO. Makes so much sense and makes the gameplay flexible and varied because you can finally use the items you have how you like, not fearing being low on ammo. It also eliminates the redundant need to fill every dungeon or boss room with pots or whatever. Great idea :)

PS: This is the first Zelda game I forgot that I even had a boomerang in (only used it in one of those secret treasure mini-dungeons) :D
Click to expand...

I actually didn't rush to rent everything as soon as the shop opened up. I went back to the shop between the dungeons to get new stuff as I got the rupees for them. Buying stuff to get them upgraded took considerably longer though, and there was a certain satisfaction of finally owning an item and being able to upgrade it.

Having access to many items from the start wasn't to the game's detriment at all in my opinion, it just meant that I could go anywhere I wanted instead of the game telling me where to go at any given time. I would probably have seen the exact same content had they done a normal item progression. In addition it allowed me to roam the world map and use a variety of items to progress instead of doing a sweep of the whole overworld between each dungeon to see whether I can access a new area. Streamlined, I would call it.

PS. The upgraded boomerang was my default Y-button item in this game, so convenient for cutting bushes and collecting items, as well as stunning the annoying blocking enemies to immediately get in a hit. It just made traversal that much quicker.
 
G

Gsnap

Member
Koozek said:
Out of curiosity, how did you play so that the renting system made sense? Why wouldn't one rent all the items at the beginning?^^ It wasn't even that expensive - well, maybe my OCD in regards to mowing every bush/grass/enemy on every screen helped filling my pocket up early on.
I couldn't even die if I wanted to because I had fairies with me all the time, haha.
Basically the renting system made no sense for me. Maybe in Hero Mode.
The best evolution of this idea would be to just have Link get the basic items (bow, hook, bomb) from the start of the game for future Zeldas, as a few here already said.
Click to expand...

It only makes sense if you don't grind for rupees or if you're bad enough to die a lot. If you don't grind for rupees, you get a decent pacing in when you acquire items, and it will take you a while to buy all of them. If you're bad at the game, you'll die a lot, and the rental system will be an incentive to get better. But the game really is easy, and very few people will have that issue. And even if you don't grind for rupees, you can still get a lot really fast.

That said, I think the rental system is just a middleman. It's not really a problem. It's not in the way. And it does make the game better, because it allows for the non-linear design. However, it just adds an extra, uninteresting step to item collection. If I go to a dungeon, and I don't have the item I need. I just warp back to the shop, rent/buy the item, and warp back to the dungeon. It's not a problem, but it does add maybe 40 seconds to a minute of time spent doing something that didn't need to be done and wasn't really that fun. I think the only thing it added to the game was a fun side character.

Here's how I think they should handle the non-linear design. So in LBW the first act of the game consists of you meeting all the sages and doing the first 3 dungeons. In this short span of time you actually manage to acquire several items. You get your sword, you get the pegasus boots, the zora flippers, the power glove, the bow, and you can buy a shield. (I may be missing something, not sure). Most of the items you get are non-essentials, though. I think they need to switch it around. Instead of chasing the thief and getting the pegasus boots to get the smooth pearl to get the Zora flippers. How about those Zora knights give us a hookshot and say, "Here, this will help you catch that thief." Then when you do catch the thief, he gives up his life of crime and instead of giving you the pegasus boots he gives you the bombs, which he used to blow open the door to Zora's domain. And then you do other things like this to acquire all the essential items. Possibly even before the first temple. And I think the game needs to give you to sword, shield, and bow right away. No questions asked. And make the boomerang a non-essential item found in a dungeon or the overworld. Since they can't really think of a cool use for it, it may as well just be a hidden extra.

So basically, for first time players, you get a 1-2 hour romp to introduce all the characters and acquire all necessary items, while at the same time giving you a seamless and quick tutorial on how to use the items. Then the big thing happens that launches you on your real quest where you can go to dungeons in any order and find other interesting, but non-essential, items in dungeons and in the overworld. And of course, experienced players would be able to get through the first part in under 30 minutes.
 
S

Sorian

Banned
Gsnap said:
It only makes sense if you don't grind for rupees or if you're bad enough to die a lot.
Click to expand...

I did read the rest of your post and I agree for the most part but I can't agree here. The renting prices of the items are so ridiculously low that you can easily rent everything when it all becomes availiable. Even ignoring every rupee you found out in the field and just using what you found in treasure boxes, you could probably rent half the items when the store opens.
 
G

Gsnap

Member
Sorian said:
I did read the rest of your post and I agree for the most part but I can't agree here. The renting prices of the items are so ridiculously low that you can easily rent everything when it all becomes availiable. Even ignoring every rupee you found out in the field and just using what you found in treasure boxes, you could probably rent half the items when the store opens.
Click to expand...

To rent, yes. But not to buy. Buying is the end goal, and if you don't grind for rupees, it will take you a while to own all the items. That's what I meant when I said you could acquire items at a decent pace if you don't grind.

But yeah, since the game's so easy and many people won't die very often, it is very easy to break the rental system since the renting price is so cheap.
 
D

D-e-f-

Banned
Mecca said:
If you streetpass someone, does your Shadow Link automatically update on the other persons 3DS with all your upgraded weapons or do I have to manually choose which weapons my Link will streetpass with? I haven't touched my Shadow Link since I first set it up and he didn't have much at the time.
Click to expand...

Manual setup required. Your Shadow Link still StreetPasses exactly like when you first set him up.
 
S

Sorian

Banned
Gsnap said:
To rent, yes. But not to buy. Buying is the end goal, and if you don't grind for rupees, it will take you a while to own all the items. That's what I meant when I said you could acquire items at a decent pace if you don't grind.

But yeah, since the game's so easy and many people won't die very often, it is very easy to break the rental system since the renting price is so cheap.
Click to expand...

Eh, true enough. I see where you are coming from. As is, the only thing I felt like buying was the fire rod so that I could upgrade it for max flame killing sprees.
 
O

Outright Villainy

Member
Finished it about a week back, probably my favourite Zelda since Wind Waker. Only real complaint is the dungeons were all a bit too short, and Hero Mode should have been allowed from the offset.
 
L

LegendX48

Member
My only words for this game are the same ones I wrote on miiverse

d9mr.png


lol
 
A

afoni

Banned
And I have done it. I've finished ALBW in hero mode with 3 hearts.

I don't think I've felt my heart race that much during a boss fight in about 5 years.
 
G

Gsnap

Member
Sorian said:
Eh, true enough. I see where you are coming from. As is, the only thing I felt like buying was the fire rod so that I could upgrade it for max flame killing sprees.
Click to expand...

Haha. That's odd, I just assumed everyone would try to buy all the items. Yeah, I guess if you only buy one thing then it really does serve zero purpose for you.

Either way, we're basically in agreement. Drop the rental/buy system. Find another way.
 
V

VICI0US

Member
whoa, so I was looking at some screens in miiverse and it looks like there's a
red tunic?!

how do you acquire that? can you get it in normal mode, because if so i totally missed it. time to carry on with my hero mode run and see what I can find out
 
M

Madouu

Member
VICI0US said:
whoa, so I was looking at some screens in miiverse and it looks like there's a
red tunic?!

how do you acquire that? can you get it in normal mode, because if so i totally missed it. time to carry on with my hero mode run and see what I can find out
Click to expand...

Lorule Castle (last dungeon) in w/e mode
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
VICI0US said:
whoa, so I was looking at some screens in miiverse and it looks like there's a
red tunic?!

how do you acquire that? can you get it in normal mode, because if so i totally missed it. time to carry on with my hero mode run and see what I can find out
Click to expand...
It can be found in...

Lorule Castle.
 
F

friskykillface

Banned
I died the same amount of times on the last boss as the penguins, the penguins should have been the final boss.


what a great game and very good ending :)

bought every single item with 10,040 Rupees collected
 
M

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
Beat the game in 22 hours. 19k rupees found, died zero times, but used a fairy in the final fight.

Got all octos, but lacked two heart pieces (one for the baseball-game, and one for the rupee rush in Lorule). Pretty great game, but I dont think it is among the top five in the series. The dungeons were too short, and it felt too much like Link to the Past. The wall-mechanic was great of course, and it was nice to see them try to go back to a non-linear form, however, I think I would rather see them return to the standard Zelda-formula with items in dungeons etc for the next game.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
friskykillface said:
I died the same amount of times on the last boss as the penguins, the penguins should have been the final boss.

bought every single item with 10,040 Rupees collected
Click to expand...
I think it's so funny you had so much trouble with the penguin ducks. They're a pain in the ass, but I dealt with them easily enough, haha. And whoa, that's not many rupees! I had 30K+.

Trent Strong said:
Turtle Rock is a living hell.
Click to expand...
Yeah, definitely my least favorite dungeon.
 
Z

Zalman

Member
Finished the game. Definitely one of my favorite Zelda games ever. Maybe second favorite.

I'm a little confused about the ending.
Why would they restore Lorule's Triforce? It was sealed for a reason. Doesn't this just put them in danger again?
 
G

GenericBadGuy

Member
Finished it tonight and enjoyed every moment with it. Normally I don't go looking for everything in a Zelda game just because I don't care to spend the time to do it, but this Zelda plays so well I did. Finding all the mei meis makes an already easy game a joke though.

I didn't die once throughout the entire playthrough, but I can see how the game gives you plenty of freedom to make it more difficult if you want. Do the dungeons in this order, use only these items, etc. I like that you can make it harder if you want but if you just want to play you don't have to wait until you have every item to get across an obstacle - you already have the tools.

Shadow links are fun, and I ran into the first one today that handed me my ass. I didn't realize just how much damage the fire rod does when it connects. I'd like to see someone fight my 950 bounty shadow link. The 100% mei mei reward has one-shot more than one opponent.

Fantastic music in the game too - the Milk Bar versions of some songs are great.
 
Z

zoukka

Member
Ice temple was great. Finished the boss with blinking health too phew. Only one temple to go. Amazing game, definitely goty material.
 
J

JonCha

Member
Hero mode worth playing? From what I can gather, it's just a
different ending and harder enemies. No new content.
 
StAidan

StAidan

Member
I finished up my first trip through the game. I enjoyed it a lot, and it's got to be my favorite Zelda since the release of OoT.

I could say tons of stuff about what I liked in the game -- the new soundtrack, the 3D effect, the top-down camera view, the gameplay, and more. But all that is non-news, so I'll just jump straight to the things that disappointed me about it:

1) The dungeon design was almost universally uninspired. I'm pretty sure Ice Palace is the only one that matches LttP's dungeon designs in quality and interesting-ness. I wish the maps hadn't been immediately available, either.

2) The item rental system works for achieving Nintendo's non-linearity goal, but I can't help but feel it could have been done better, like hiding the items all over the overworld and having to locate them. The original Zelda did this well, as did LttP with some of the more optional items.

3) To the folks earlier in the thread that claimed the new menu system and new dungeons make ALBW a "new game," I still say it's more of a LttP remake than anything else. The sense of re-use in the formula is just too strong to ignore. You guys remind me of the famous Fils-Aime "it's not the same game!" interview.

Regardless, there's nothing wrong with remaking LttP. The extent of the changes in this game is what should have been done for the lazy Wind Waker remake. There was enough newness to impress me, while making me feel like I was returning to the long-beloved Hyrule that I grew up with.

All that to say, I'd probably rank this game second in my all-time favorite Zeldas (LttP remaining the first).
 
C

Celine

Member
StAidan said:
1) The dungeon design was almost universally uninspired. I'm pretty sure Ice Palace is the only one that matches LttP's dungeon designs in quality and interesting-ness. I wish the maps hadn't been immediately available, either.

2) The item rental system works for achieving Nintendo's non-linearity goal, but I can't help but feel it could have been done better, like hiding the items all over the overworld and having to locate them. The original Zelda did this well, as did LttP with some of the more optional items.

3) To the folks earlier in the thread that claimed the new menu system and new dungeons make ALBW a "new game," I still say it's more of a LttP remake than anything else. The sense of re-use in the formula is just too strong to ignore. You guys remind me of the famous Fils-Aime "it's not the same game!" interview.
Click to expand...
1) they are very linear for the most part. Good but not excellent as other Zelda games.

2) well in LTTP the most useful items were always found in dungeons. In this game they are available almost from the start to rent.
In ALBW there are items that can be found on the map whenever you like (or miss them completely).
For example Pegasus Boots.
But I agree the rent system isn't perfect.

3) it didn't bother me much the reused map but the last time I played LTTP was mant years ago.

I miss 2-3 dungeons but a disappointment for me is that most boss are forgettable.
 
F

Forkball

Member
I BEAT IT.

+Having any item you want at the beginning was a great addition and made exploration fun instead of frustrating. I loved being able to go anywhere I wanted as long as I had my wits about me.
+The open world aspect was very well incorporated and I liked how I could do whatever dungeon I wanted at any time.
+The merging effect was really well incorporated and was used in some creative ways. I would like to see it return in future Zelda titles, even if just for one dungeon.
+The game looked great in 3D and the dungeons used the 3D aspect in a lot of different and interesting ways.
+The characters were likable, and I thought (major spoilers)
Ravio being Lorule's Link was a great twist that I didn't see coming. There were a lot of hints though, like the pink bunny outfit, him already having all of the items, the vacant house in Lorule, and finding a bottle in said house.

-Game is just too short. I beat it in 13 hours, that's with getting almost every heart piece and doing a bunch of side stuff like Maimais and bottles. The dungeons could be completed pretty quickly as well. I would like to have seen them at varying lengths.
-Dungeons using only one item (and some none!) really removed a lot of thinking when it came to the puzzle aspects and they felt pretty bland because of it.

There's a lot I liked about it, but it also seemed pretty lacking in many respects. I would place LA and the Oracle games above it, but I still think it had a lot of great ideas and I had fun while it lasted.
 
A

Ansatz

Member
Forkball said:
-Dungeons using only one item (and some none!) really removed a lot of thinking when it came to the puzzle aspects and they felt pretty bland because of it.
Click to expand...

Technically two, the combination of the required item and wall Link. Some examples:

Bomb a switch and quickly merge into a rotating wall.
Hookshot to unreachable walls and merge into them before dropping down.
Freeze lava pillars and use them as walls.

While I would like more complexity in Zelda games, I think the puzzles are in line with the rest of the series. Not getting the feeling that you're lost/stuck in dungeons is more tied to their linearity, as opposed to making them more maze-like in ALttP.

This is why I think the rental system, at least the way BW handles it, is a one-off because wall merging carries the entire game. They'd need to find an equally deep mechanic to base the entire game around.
 
O

Oxx

Member
I'm about an hour in and my first streetpass battle was against someone who was seemingly fully kitted-out.

I didn't last long. Is it possible to defy the odds with enough time and skill? Or do I just need to get further into the game?
 
S

Salsa

Member
beat it, clocked a bit more than 16 hours with all done except for like 20 maimais

CqUeisZl.jpg


pretty much a perfect little game

it felt short, tho, probably because of the gameplay speed.
 
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