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Zelda: A Link Between Worlds |OT| All in all you're just another Link in the wall
- Thread starter Frolow
- Start date
I can't understand this. Sure, the dungeons in LttP were maybe bigger and a little more maze-like, but they were overall pretty bland and uninspired compared to LBW.
LBW's dungeons were on the short side, but they threw out so many ideas at you, and they used the item set very, very well. Much more than LttP. In LttP the first half of the dungeon was spent doing basically nothing of interest other than killing enemies and stepping on switches until you get the dungeon item, and then even after you get it the item is generally just a fancy key. And of course artistically they were far less interesting than LBW's dungeons, but I'm sure we can blame the SNES for that.
In LBW, most dungeons are short, but from the moment you step in to the moment you leave they are either using the necessary item in really interesting ways, or they're throwing some sort of new idea at you. And of course the wall walking mechanic adds one extra layer to every dungeon.
Short? Mostly. Easy? Mostly. Universally uninspired? No way.
Moff
Member
I just replayed ALTTP, Links Awakening and the oracles. and honestly, the dungeon design in LA and the oracles is so much better and more memorable than in ALTTP (which makes them ultimately the better games, since dungeons are pretty much everything ALTTP offers as soon as you enter the dark world)
ALTTPs dungeons were not necessarily big, but they were complex, difficult and sometimes confusing.
ALBW goes another path, its a game that is stripped of everything that made zelda stale, tiring and annoying in the last 20 years. it replaces complexity and diffculty with diverse gameplay and fresh mechanics. it makes the dungeons more memorable and honestly much more fun than in ALTTP.
ALTTPs dungeons were not necessarily big, but they were complex, difficult and sometimes confusing.
ALBW goes another path, its a game that is stripped of everything that made zelda stale, tiring and annoying in the last 20 years. it replaces complexity and diffculty with diverse gameplay and fresh mechanics. it makes the dungeons more memorable and honestly much more fun than in ALTTP.
StAidan
Member
There are precious few items in any Zelda game that couldn't be reduced to just a fancy key. The key to a puzzle, the key to a switch, when it boils down to it, not much different from a floor switch that you step on yourself.
Regardless, though, the real meat of a Zelda dungeon should be the complexity of its layout and the combat found within. The emphasis on puzzles make a dungeon more icing (shiny) than cake (substance). There's no replay value in solving a puzzle over and over again, but the overall experience of fighting your way through a dungeon's critical path is what provides the replay value. That aspect is de-emphasized in most of ALBW's dungeons.
Of course anyone is free to disagree with what makes a good dungeon, but I prefer the dungeons of Zeldas 1-3, which are characterized by the strengths I mentioned above.
this game really's got rocket speed gameplay. You just go from Hy to Lo in no time, discover a dozen secret caves and finish a dungeon in less than one hour. They swapped mysterious for packed, i believe to accomodate the modern handheld gamer's tastes, and I can't really complain about it since there's a lot to do here. But hopefully they bring some of the mystery back for Zelda U because I miss it
Green Mamba
Member
The dungeons of ALttP have a different focus than the dungeons of ALBW. They're more about finding your way than it is about solving item specific puzzles--Misery Mire is absolutely monstrous at first, for instance, and its difficulty lies in its size and complexity. ALBW leans more on the modern Zelda side about solving puzzles. I don't think one approach is inherently superior.
It should be noted though that many dungeon items in A Link to the Past are in fact unnecessary to complete their respective dungeon and as such have no puzzles revolving around them (Tower of Hera, Ice Palace, and Thieve's Town come to mind), so it's not really accurate to say that the first half is nothing until you get the item. Like I said above and what StAiden said, they're more about navigation and combat than item specific puzzles.
That said, I do like that ALBW has some more nonlinearity in its dungeons (not just the overworld), something that has been missing in the series for a while. I don't think it gets enough credit for this. I mean, it's actually willing to give you more than one key at a time (and there are useless keys and doors even!). Some of them are more linear than others, but often you are given a choice between many different rooms to solve at once. I would like to see them continue in this direction for the Wii U Zelda, just have the dungeons be larger.
It should be noted though that many dungeon items in A Link to the Past are in fact unnecessary to complete their respective dungeon and as such have no puzzles revolving around them (Tower of Hera, Ice Palace, and Thieve's Town come to mind), so it's not really accurate to say that the first half is nothing until you get the item. Like I said above and what StAiden said, they're more about navigation and combat than item specific puzzles.
That said, I do like that ALBW has some more nonlinearity in its dungeons (not just the overworld), something that has been missing in the series for a while. I don't think it gets enough credit for this. I mean, it's actually willing to give you more than one key at a time (and there are useless keys and doors even!). Some of them are more linear than others, but often you are given a choice between many different rooms to solve at once. I would like to see them continue in this direction for the Wii U Zelda, just have the dungeons be larger.
Not in LBW. Yes, you could boil down everything to just being a key if you deconstruct it down far enough. But the extent to which an item is a key is important, though. In LttP items are barely used for anything other than removing a one note obstacle in your path. In the same way that a key removes a door. There is far, far more mechanical diversity in the way LBW uses its items.
For instance:
Using sand pillars to navigate a dungeon, pop enemies out of the ground, lift up statues, allow boulders to cross gaps, etc. Using the ice rod to keep a seesaw bridge from tilting or to quickly navigate a lava pit while enemies are trying to attack you. Using the hookshot to pull rafts across water, or to hookshot onto a wall so you can use the wall-walking mechanic. Using the wind rod to carry you across gaps or to reach moving platforms above you. Using the hammer to pound springs into the ground that will pop you up.
And even more.
Now, if you're into the more maze-like dungeons that focus more on combat, then that's fine. I guess I just don't see how, comparatively, you can look at LBW's dungeons and say they are "universally uninspired" when they are packed with content and ideas and variety. Even if you prefer your dungeons light on item usage and puzzles.
And I've never been too interested in dungeons where you objective in most rooms is "clear all the bad guys". The combat in Zelda (especially top-down Zelda) is incredibly basic and not very interesting to me. I hope the next game has bigger dungeons, because I do like getting lost in a dungeon, but I want my set of items to be as useful and interesting as they were in LBW.
I feel you, breh
Rarely do I have the urge to continue playing a finished game this much. I want to play an hour of ALBW before sleep every night. Handheld gaming really seems to be the way to go for me. So comfortable. Gotta get my own 3DS next year, hehe.
Vampirolol
Member
I'm finishing some games I left behind, waiting for Christmas, that's when I'm going to replay this masterpiece in Hero mode... I will face dungeons in a new order but Ice cave will still be my last one!
To be fair, the forest boss destroyed me. I never had enough energy to stay on the wall, so I got hit way too much.
I used a fairy, and I started the fight with like 14 hearts
Nexus Zero
Member
Oh my god that's genius. I did not pick up on that.
please double check your spoiler tag and LOOK at your post before you submit and vanish.
So...just beat my very first Zelda game, which is shocking. I owned Link's Awakening, Ocarina of Time, and Wind Waker, but I never got around to finishing any of them. In fact, I don't think I got further than two dungeons for some reason.
It was really enjoyable. The pace of this game was really great. You never felt rushed, but it never overstayed its welcome. I chalk that up to the dungeons being relatively short. They were just right in terms of difficulty and length.
The out of order dungeons was interesting. I think the only thing I disliked is that I could've used the
a lot earlier, but I got to that dungeon second-to-last.
This is really the first time those "Zelda moments" clicked with me, when you just realize how to get to that higher platform or reach that one item. I might step back and finish Wind Waker at this point. I really enjoyed how the items, particularly
played into the problem solving.
I will say that I don't think I ever used the
, even for switches. I might be misremembering if there was a puzzle that required it, but I used
TL;DR.
-First Zelda
-It was a lot of fun
-Well-paced game mostly because the dungeons never overstayed their welcome
It was really enjoyable. The pace of this game was really great. You never felt rushed, but it never overstayed its welcome. I chalk that up to the dungeons being relatively short. They were just right in terms of difficulty and length.
The out of order dungeons was interesting. I think the only thing I disliked is that I could've used the
blue mail
This is really the first time those "Zelda moments" clicked with me, when you just realize how to get to that higher platform or reach that one item. I might step back and finish Wind Waker at this point. I really enjoyed how the items, particularly
the elemental rods
I will say that I don't think I ever used the
boomerang
the hookshot, bomb, ice rod, and arrows for almost all the switches.
TL;DR.
-First Zelda
-It was a lot of fun
-Well-paced game mostly because the dungeons never overstayed their welcome
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
A lot of people are saying they didn't use the boomerang, which is nuts to me because it was the one item I almost always had equipped. It was good for stunning enemies and for nabbing rupees from a distance. I dunno, I loved it.
Yeah, I just used the hookshot to stun people or the
ice rod to freeze people
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
You can toss it without needing to aim so deliberately, and then go do other stuff before it even flies back to you.
Right. But you do make it sound much better than it actually is. But yes.
I used the Nice Tornado Rod to stun anyhow. But if the boomerang fits someone's style better, there's certainly nothing wrong with it.
Akibastman
Member
I got the game for my birthday yesterday an I have one question: why does the Zoras look so bad ? Why aren't they blue and slim ?
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Uh-oh...
C.Olimar788
Member
Different type of Zora. The ones in this game are River Zoras, whereas the ones you're thinking of are Ocean Zoras. In essence, OoT took a generic enemy type from classic Zeldas and turned it into a different and much more unique race.
I wish they had just called them Zolas in this game and avoided some of the confusion altogether.
soundpross
Neo Member
man i love this game. top down zelda games are the best at least for me.
Shin Kojima
Banned
They're back too looking like they always should have.
Having finished the game a few days ago, I've been thinking about how highly it ranks. And yo be honest, it's right up there with the best in the series.
I'm going to be echoing what others have said before but, the game is just so well designed it deserves all the praise.
The wall-merging mechanic is ingenious and implemented seamlessly in the game that it feels like its been part of the series all along.
The non-linearity is also very welcome and whilst it could have done with being a little more difficult, it doesn't detract from the experience at all.
Having said all of this, i reserve the highest praise for the music. It's sensational. I've spent countless rupees at the milk bar just listening to the different tunes and I would urge anyone picking the game up to play with a decent set of headphones. Whilst the speakers on the 3ds are adequate, a decent pair of headphones helps immerse you in the game like no other. And when the music is this good, you really owe it to yourself. It has the best music in the series, and personally, when I entered Hyrule castle and the music hit, chills down the spine.
If this is an indicator of what the wii-u edition will be like, then we're in for a treat.
I'm going to be echoing what others have said before but, the game is just so well designed it deserves all the praise.
The wall-merging mechanic is ingenious and implemented seamlessly in the game that it feels like its been part of the series all along.
The non-linearity is also very welcome and whilst it could have done with being a little more difficult, it doesn't detract from the experience at all.
Having said all of this, i reserve the highest praise for the music. It's sensational. I've spent countless rupees at the milk bar just listening to the different tunes and I would urge anyone picking the game up to play with a decent set of headphones. Whilst the speakers on the 3ds are adequate, a decent pair of headphones helps immerse you in the game like no other. And when the music is this good, you really owe it to yourself. It has the best music in the series, and personally, when I entered Hyrule castle and the music hit, chills down the spine.
If this is an indicator of what the wii-u edition will be like, then we're in for a treat.
gamerforever
Banned
Need a dedicated addictive title for my underused 3DS - this or Luigi's Mansion 2?
This is my game of the year.
Luigi's Mansion 2 even though a good game would probably not make it into my top ten.
gamerforever
Banned
Thought as much, look forward to this! thanks.
That's the beauty of how this game handles everything about items. The rental system coupled with the stamina system and lack of ammo means you get to just play around with whatever you want, however you want. Items become useful additions to your combat repertoire. Before I figured out how to better deal with those pig soldiers that are carrying shields, I exclusively used the boomerang to throw it behind them and stun them from the back while running away and changing its return direction. Made me feel super smart until I noticed how else to do it
All the items are valid for combat. Some help you stun groups of enemies, some deal AE damage, some can be used for long distance stunning. And you never hesitate to use them because you're not tied to a magic meter or ammo count.
gamergirly
Member
Got everything in the game but a few pieces of Hearts. Was in
. Gotta figure out that running game and baseball game.
Lorule Castle completing most of it but left with Red tunic to finish all if the other stuff
I just finished too!
It was an epic game, but didn't Aonuma say there was a hint about Majora's Mask at the ending? Or am I imagining things?
The mask is on the wall of a house early in the game.
Yeah, but was that all the references?
schwabdizzle
Banned
I finished it last night. Great game. I do wish it was a bit longer though. I really did not find the game difficult at all either. I would put it in the top 5 Zeldas.
There are multiple obvious references. There is no "zomg it's a sequel/prequel to MM!!!!" nods anywhere. It was a poorly translated/worded response to some fan question.
What a game.
It is endless, i still have as much fun as the first go with hero mode
In fact now the combat and bosses are even more interesting. Is there an even harder mode after this ?
I had never played top down zeldas and never though i would enjoy it so much, it was really unexpected to be so good
It is endless
, i still have as much fun as the first go with hero modeIn fact now the combat and bosses are even more interesting. Is there an even harder mode after this ?
I had never played top down zeldas and never though i would enjoy it so much, it was really unexpected to be so good
Yeah, it's definitely not a sequel or prequel to Majora's Mask.
WadiumArcadium
Member
I'm only a few hours in but it is truly special. I really wasn't keen on the art style before playing it but it's really grown on me.
I had a break with Super Mario 3D Land today so that I wouldn't finish it too quickly.
I had a break with Super Mario 3D Land today so that I wouldn't finish it too quickly.