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Zelda: A Link Between Worlds |OT| All in all you're just another Link in the wall
- Thread starter Frolow
- Start date
alundra311
Member
I agree except for the bolded part.
Although ALBW is one of the best Zelda's I have played, if not the best, it kinda lost that feeling you get when you found a new item. Instead of an item rental system, make the items obtainable in an item dungeon/sidequest/puzzle. I would also like them to separate the dungeons into item dungeons and main story dungeons. That way, the main dungeons can be tackled in any order depending on the items you have obtained.
I would also like them to implement a limit on how many items you can bring, preferably two items and have the unused items stashed in your house. Do away with the overworld/dungeon map (or maybe make the overworld map only accessible in one place like the fortune tellers house).
I have a couple more ideas but I really have to go. Maybe will add more later.
What? That would just be annoying.
Oren the Queen Zora, north of witch's house
you have to buy the ore in kakariko after the scene
you have to buy the ore in kakariko after the scene
Oh, what is the other solution? I tried the "obvious" one but couldn't make it through.
Oh god, that sounds great. If they make the next 3D one like this, I'd die. I need to buy a 3DS don't I?
Spieler Eins
Member
The graphical improvements are good, but probably not worth full price. I got OoT in a 2+1 free thing, that was good enough.
I finally beat the game. Probably not going to go through a Hero Mode run just yet, since I don't want to burn out my interest in the game. Maybe next month though. I had quite a blast. The game is really fun, the design decisions mostly worked better than I expected, and the music was fantastic. It does feel a bit small overall though, but it was paced well for a portable game.
The best thing about the game was the overall design. It feels really fun to explore and play around in, and I might have enjoyed that aspect more than LTTP. The collection aspects are pretty rewarding, especially for the item upgrades. I think by not really giving any direct hints as to where you're supposed to go or how you might get to certain optional areas makes solving them much more rewarding. Great stuff.
The worst thing is definitely the lack of challenge. The combat balance feels really tuned down, and once you have a few heart containers there's pretty much no way to really die. Some of the bosses would have been way more satisfying if not for this problem. I guess Nintendo is still deathly afraid of anyone not being able to finish one of their new games. Oh well.
I'm really surprised at how well the item rental and magic bar system ended up working out. The way the game is designed, the removal of artificial limits on pretty much everything (no more rupee bags, no more bomb bags, no more arrow quivers!!) in the game makes the pace much faster and changes the focus from inventory management to just solving the challenges in the game. It also allowed dungeons to be turned into themed mega-puzzles from the start, so you begin solving the dungeon from the moment you enter it, instead of having a sub-section where you need to find the item first.
I don't think I would like to see the actual item rental system return in another Zelda game though. What the system showed here is that dungeons can be fun without containing the item you need to solve it, but at the same time the actual rental process felt sort of pointless. You get so much money that it's not an issue renting everything from the start, and since it's so hard to die there really isn't any downside to having everything. That does remove the aspect of feeling like you earned the items.
What I would probably prefer them to do is to expand on the overworld, and hide the items all over it instead. That would encourage exploration even more, and it would also make many of those secret treasure caves with puzzles much more rewarding instead of just being rupee chests. It would also retain the non-linear aspect of the game, since you can choose to either explore the overworld to find items, or use the items you have found to tackle the relevant dungeons.
As it is though, this is a huge step forward for Nintendo's approach to Zelda, and I appreciate they decided to take that step. Removing the more annoying aspects of tutorials and handholding in exchange for a more natural learning curve for players is a great move. The next step would probably be to acknowledge that there are Zelda gamers out there who would actually like the option for something more challenging from the start.
tl;dr summary
Pros:
- Really fun
- Fast paced
- Great overworld for exploration
- Fun dungeons with a puzzle focus
- Superb music
Cons:
- Way too easy
- Dungeons do feel a little small, could use more of them
- Economy in the game is non-existent since you get tons of money really quick
- Way, way too easy
The best thing about the game was the overall design. It feels really fun to explore and play around in, and I might have enjoyed that aspect more than LTTP. The collection aspects are pretty rewarding, especially for the item upgrades. I think by not really giving any direct hints as to where you're supposed to go or how you might get to certain optional areas makes solving them much more rewarding. Great stuff.
The worst thing is definitely the lack of challenge. The combat balance feels really tuned down, and once you have a few heart containers there's pretty much no way to really die. Some of the bosses would have been way more satisfying if not for this problem. I guess Nintendo is still deathly afraid of anyone not being able to finish one of their new games. Oh well.
I'm really surprised at how well the item rental and magic bar system ended up working out. The way the game is designed, the removal of artificial limits on pretty much everything (no more rupee bags, no more bomb bags, no more arrow quivers!!) in the game makes the pace much faster and changes the focus from inventory management to just solving the challenges in the game. It also allowed dungeons to be turned into themed mega-puzzles from the start, so you begin solving the dungeon from the moment you enter it, instead of having a sub-section where you need to find the item first.
I don't think I would like to see the actual item rental system return in another Zelda game though. What the system showed here is that dungeons can be fun without containing the item you need to solve it, but at the same time the actual rental process felt sort of pointless. You get so much money that it's not an issue renting everything from the start, and since it's so hard to die there really isn't any downside to having everything. That does remove the aspect of feeling like you earned the items.
What I would probably prefer them to do is to expand on the overworld, and hide the items all over it instead. That would encourage exploration even more, and it would also make many of those secret treasure caves with puzzles much more rewarding instead of just being rupee chests. It would also retain the non-linear aspect of the game, since you can choose to either explore the overworld to find items, or use the items you have found to tackle the relevant dungeons.
As it is though, this is a huge step forward for Nintendo's approach to Zelda, and I appreciate they decided to take that step. Removing the more annoying aspects of tutorials and handholding in exchange for a more natural learning curve for players is a great move. The next step would probably be to acknowledge that there are Zelda gamers out there who would actually like the option for something more challenging from the start.
tl;dr summary
Pros:
- Really fun
- Fast paced
- Great overworld for exploration
- Fun dungeons with a puzzle focus
- Superb music
Cons:
- Way too easy
- Dungeons do feel a little small, could use more of them
- Economy in the game is non-existent since you get tons of money really quick
- Way, way too easy
Dog Problems
Banned
Yeah, I love not having to look for bombs.
D
Deleted member 125677
Unconfirmed Member
I agree that it is too easy just to get every item as it is.
But I'm not sure hiding them all over the map would be an ideal solution either. It could be potentially annoying not gaining entrance to dungeons because the item you need is tucked away in a secret treasure cave somewhere.
I think maybe making items more expensive and available to be bought only could work as well. It should be made in a way that forces you to actually choose your path.
Well, look at how you got items to access the second and third dungeons, or how many new items or abilities have been unlocked over the Zelda series such as getting Epona in Ocarina of Time. It doesn't need to just be finding a chest, that could actually be an item that makes a dungeon EASIER but not reach it entirely (like how upgrading some items makes their dungeons much easier), but the main item could be part of a little event you hunt down. And hell, that's one of the big things I liked about older Zelda games in contrast to newer ones where it felt like everything was doled out at the time they dictate rather than you getting to explore the world and getting more stuff to be more capable and versatile.
The only problem I fear with having the items outside the dungeons is people missing them and getting annoyed when they get stuck. (Look at how many easily missed the bug catching net and boots) One could prevent access to a dungeon without a certain item but then you risk having to make that dungeon based around one item because that's all you can be sure the player has.
I suppose one could bring back an item similar to Ooccoo that allows one to mark a spot in a dungeon to return to so if you do realise you can't make any further progress you can always return to that spot later without having to go through the rest of the dungeon.
I suppose one could bring back an item similar to Ooccoo that allows one to mark a spot in a dungeon to return to so if you do realise you can't make any further progress you can always return to that spot later without having to go through the rest of the dungeon.
PotionBleue
Member
Missing the Net and Pegasus Boots will not get you stuck, you can beat the game without them.
That's exactly what happens. Ice dungeon cannot be entered without Fire rod, Turtle Rock dungeon cannot be entered without Ice rod, and so on. There are pillars with item icons telling you what item(s) you need for this dungeon.
Have you already forgotten what's in the game? lol
I would imagine that you start the game with some core items (bombs, boomerang, bow and lamp perhaps), that give you access to most of the game from the start. The other items (hookshot, magic rods, whatever) are then found in dungeons or side-quests and such, and can be acquired in a non-linear fashion. So something more like a tier-based unlocking of weapons and areas to explore.
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Zelda WiiU speculation aside, I got this game yesterday and played it up to Lorule. It's fantastic so far and I can't wait to get home and play more.
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Zelda WiiU speculation aside, I got this game yesterday and played it up to Lorule. It's fantastic so far and I can't wait to get home and play more.
I thought it was pretty obvious. One of the townspeople gives a pretty hefty clue about it....
If this is about the
pegasus boots
I like it when the hint ghosts give you cryptic or fun explanations for things. He just ruined the fun this time.
Because in the timeline of the series, Majora didn't exist yet. ...Unless this game isn't designed to be a sequel to Zelda 1...
No, at least, I thought it was when you first talk about that
mysterious fellow with his back to the wall to one of the townsfolk. Can't exactly remember though.
I'm talking about a theoretical future game. Sure the items you can miss in this game are not important but it still highlights that it is easy for people to miss them. People even missed the pouch upgrade despite the mother telling you where to look.
Sure you need the ice rod to enter Turtle Rock, but that's not the only item you need to complete it. The beauty of ALBW is that the dungeons can assume the player has most items at their disposal so can have puzzles that require any item to complete rather than the old pattern where the dungeon is based around mostly one item.
I just finished Hero Mode 100%. The 4x damage is REALLY noticeable. It's a good thing you can carry so many fairies, as I was dying pretty rapidly at points the last two dungeons, and the Tower.
Overall it took me just over 31 hours to 100% normal and Hero Mode. I still need to finish the Streetpass challenges for both files, and get 999 on the cucco minigame, but other than that I'm done. The best Zelda game in a long while.
Overall it took me just over 31 hours to 100% normal and Hero Mode. I still need to finish the Streetpass challenges for both files, and get 999 on the cucco minigame, but other than that I'm done. The best Zelda game in a long while.
Yeah tastes and everything but I don't know what Jeremy Parish smoked.
Would a happy middle be to have a core selection of upgradable items that can be rented, bought and then upgraded with crafting materials and then have a selection of items that can only be found in dungeons or mini dungeons central to the plot?
That way, dungeons can be designed to take advantage of a wide range of items accessible at the start with one or two larger puzzles that utilise the found item. More of the over world can also be locked away until the dungeon items are acquired, preserving the sense of discovery that is so important in a game like Zelda.
Alternatively, items could have a second usage that is unlocked via upgrades found in dungeons, such as the double hookshot in Twilight Princess.
Honestly, I get both the pros and cons for the rental system in ALBW. It only needs a little tweaking and if Nintendo built on it instead of scrapping it it could result in the best designed Zelda yet.
That way, dungeons can be designed to take advantage of a wide range of items accessible at the start with one or two larger puzzles that utilise the found item. More of the over world can also be locked away until the dungeon items are acquired, preserving the sense of discovery that is so important in a game like Zelda.
Alternatively, items could have a second usage that is unlocked via upgrades found in dungeons, such as the double hookshot in Twilight Princess.
Honestly, I get both the pros and cons for the rental system in ALBW. It only needs a little tweaking and if Nintendo built on it instead of scrapping it it could result in the best designed Zelda yet.
I disagree with nothing you wrote. A+.
My only comment is that item rental changes the way the player approaches the world/dungeons (for a Zelda game...) as well as how the devs design the dungeons). The player no longer has to "prepare" for any dungeon in particular, and the devs have to setup the dungeons in such a way that any variance of Link can beat it. I think the game is well designed around that concept, but stylistically, the concept could be targeted as a con to the previous top down Zeldas. It's just different (and well done!). In other words, "opinions...man".
LTTP is not my jam.
ALBW is my jam.
Nocturnowl
Member
This is a fair point, some others have mentioned that the way dungeons are designed in this game mean that you only really make use of the one necessary item within them which can be limit the potential for more varied puzzles requiring multiple items. I was actually expecting some dungeons to require at least two items to enter and progress through but oh well, perhaps next time if they return to a similar open item system.
Fortunately with Painting Link and most dungeons playing to another sort of central gimmick they manage to feel varied regardless of limitations on how many items you may use.
Regarding preparation though in the later stages of Lorule I was upgrading the relevant dungeon item before heading into their dungeon in the hopes of giving myself a little advantage, at the very least I think it was a good move for Turtle Rock.
MrCookiepants
Member
So I pretty much 100%'d this game in under 18 hours. While I've always criticized the padding in recent Zelda games, this one could probably use a bit more of it. 
I have no real desire to play Hero mode.
I have no real desire to play Hero mode.Basileus777
Member
You can
get a heart piece and deliver milk to the mountaineer there,
I've just finished the game! It was amazing. The dungeons were extremely well done, and I was actually quite fine with their length.
The painting mechanic, non-linearity and rental system just work so well. I hope the Wii U Zelda will follow a lot of these ideas.
The soundtrack was absolutely fantastic. Nintendo needs to release it. I really liked the graphics in motion too.
Collecting all 100 Maiamai's was really fun too.
edit: Checking Activity Log shows my total time was 29:26. I did everything except collecting 1 bottle and some pieces of heart, I believe.
The painting mechanic, non-linearity and rental system just work so well. I hope the Wii U Zelda will follow a lot of these ideas.
The soundtrack was absolutely fantastic. Nintendo needs to release it. I really liked the graphics in motion too.
Collecting all 100 Maiamai's was really fun too.
edit: Checking Activity Log shows my total time was 29:26. I did everything except collecting 1 bottle and some pieces of heart, I believe.
Finished the game yesterday! Really fun experience and probably my favorite Zelda since Majora's Mask. Went back and scoured for every remaining item to get 100% and I can't wait to see people tackle
on Hero Mode.
Anyway I will probably take a couple week break from the game before going back to do Hero Mode. Hopefully by then whatever "secret" it has won't be posted all over the front page of GAF.
Advanced Treacherous Tower
Anyway I will probably take a couple week break from the game before going back to do Hero Mode. Hopefully by then whatever "secret" it has won't be posted all over the front page of GAF.
Hmm. I literally just turned off my 3DS after finishing Turtle Rock. I'm pretty sure I used nothing but the Ice Rod. (upgraded one at that!)
This excites me! Have to get this game soon.
After seeing so many people in this thread barrel through the game, I put it away on Saturday so I could save it for the Thanksgiving holiday, when I have some time off of work and I'll be traveling a bit.
But the first two dungeons were really great, and I'm excited to see what kind of stuff the game comes up with in the later dungeons. It's also the first game on 3DS I've played since like Kid Icarus where I've kept the 3D on the entire time - it's very impressive, and 60 fps maybe should have been a mandate for all games if they were really invested in selling the 3D.
But the first two dungeons were really great, and I'm excited to see what kind of stuff the game comes up with in the later dungeons. It's also the first game on 3DS I've played since like Kid Icarus where I've kept the 3D on the entire time - it's very impressive, and 60 fps maybe should have been a mandate for all games if they were really invested in selling the 3D.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
I haven't finished the game yet, but finished all the dungeons, and I'm looking for weapons upgrades and hearts before going to the final stage.
The game is great, it's really really good.
I like the rental system, and it's not true that all items are available. There ARE special items to be found on dungeons (or after them...) and most dungeons (not all) are designed to be completed with a special item, so you still get to use the items in fun ways and solve puzzles with them.
There are also a lot of puzzle rooms in the map that make use of items on creative ways.
The only difference between this game and other Zeldas, is that now you can choose the order you complete the dungeons, and that's awesome; and you can explore the map earlier, which is good. Rental system is great. Also, the boomerang is absolutely worthless.
Finally, the wall merging Link is a lot of fun, great mechanic, hope they make a sequel to this game and keep that power but change the world.
The game is great, it's really really good.
I like the rental system, and it's not true that all items are available. There ARE special items to be found on dungeons (or after them...) and most dungeons (not all) are designed to be completed with a special item, so you still get to use the items in fun ways and solve puzzles with them.
There are also a lot of puzzle rooms in the map that make use of items on creative ways.
The only difference between this game and other Zeldas, is that now you can choose the order you complete the dungeons, and that's awesome; and you can explore the map earlier, which is good. Rental system is great. Also, the boomerang is absolutely worthless.
Finally, the wall merging Link is a lot of fun, great mechanic, hope they make a sequel to this game and keep that power but change the world.
Basileus777
Member
I wish I had been able to play Hero mode my first time through. On a second run, I already know too much about the game, and I feel I'm going to need other house rules or else I can just trivialize the game because I know where all the heart pieces are and can abuse the upgraded tornado rod.
There's only one weapon unavailable for you to rent early on.
I never played A Link to the Past past its intro. (The dungeon of Hyrule castle has to be the most boring location in any Zelda game so far :S)
Blasphemy, I know
A Link between Worlds is AWESOME so far. I really like the snappy dungeons (short but awesome), the controls, lack of handholding, item rental system (although buying the items is FAR too cheap imo, 800-1200 rupees are a joke) and the difficulty (already died three times after only completing 4 dungeons - that's 4x more than in any Zelda game I've played in the last 12 years together). Collecting upgrade "material" is a great incentive to explore the map, which has a nice size - it takes you ~3-4min to traverse it S-N or E-W. Any bigger and traversing it over and over again as you'll do in this game (+ Dark World!) would be too cumbersome. The OST of this game is amazing, btw.
On the other side, at the time being I don't have any real negatives
GOTY so far (
Yet to play SM3DW though
YES YES do it. Although you will lose some things (like the stamina bar for a mana bar) and some other items, it's still the master for some things. And I might say that ALTTP is harder than ALBW. Especially the last dungeons.
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
Yes, but you still have to solve puzzles to get (items not for rental)
flippers and pegasus boots; then there's the big gloves, the sand rod, the sword upgrades, the new suits and stamina scroll
Bucket Mouse
Member
This is exactly what I feared would happen in this thread and unfortunately it came true. I really enjoyed the game and it has many, many virtues (although I think people are understating/forgetting how much of it has been lifted from ALttP), but the rental system is flawed in its execution. I didn't even have to "farm for rupees" as I previously said; I naturally got enough that I could buy the items outright, having not died when you're forced to rent at the beginning, reducing both the enjoyment I would have got from careful renting AND the feeling of discovering items.
Another issue I have is how the dungeons were designed to be finished with one item, which made them very easy and straightforward. Why on earth did they have this restriction? There is nothing to say that you couldn't have had the exact same non-linear world structure, except with dungeons requiring at least TWO items to gain entry. Isn't that the whole point of renting, so that you can spend money noncommittally on various combinations of items?
alundra311
Member
It may be annoying to some but I really find that not having a map makes exploring much more satisfying.