Zenless Zone Zero ༺*|OT|*༻ Gotta Waifu 'Em All ♡(੭´͈ ᐜ `͈)੭♡

I'm in the process of building my Trigger, and already she makes a huge difference in my S.Anby team. They might have well made her mandatory, it feels like a night and day difference. Damage aside, since mine's too low level to do any substantial damage, she contributes to Shock application and her stun is insane. It's a great thing because Anby'd daze is basically nothing. I was using S.Anby/Trigger/Rina and it like halved my clear time on farming stages alone compared to my previous S.Anby clears. Still think Yanagi is faster, but this is vastly improved and can only get better as Trigger gets built.
 
I'm in the process of building my Trigger, and already she makes a huge difference in my S.Anby team. They might have well made her mandatory, it feels like a night and day difference. Damage aside, since mine's too low level to do any substantial damage, she contributes to Shock application and her stun is insane. It's a great thing because Anby'd daze is basically nothing. I was using S.Anby/Trigger/Rina and it like halved my clear time on farming stages alone compared to my previous S.Anby clears. Still think Yanagi is faster, but this is vastly improved and can only get better as Trigger gets built.

I'm having a hard time deciding on Shadow or Shockstar for discs. Does the extra daze even make enough of a difference ? How many extras stuns are we talking about here? I feel like the damage from Shadow would be better.
Still need to test both builds, but something. To think about.
 
So, I got her as well now, but I've bad news. SAnby + Trigger can't do shit without great Support character on the team to hugely buff ATK and Yanagi won't help at all to fix this even with her disorders. It also doesn't matter which engine you'll be using outside of her signature (which I don't have and I don't care), cuz the DMG just won't be there and I tested with both Lycaon and F2P W-engine.

I've two sets ready for Aftershocks (1) and Daze Buildup (2) in case I won't have SAnby available:

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One is better than the other when it comes to Crit DMG (the rest like ATK and Impact is W-Engine difference - Lycaon vs. F2P + better sub stats for HP etc. so pay no mind to this), but I don't have a good Crit DMG disc for Aftershocks so I might fix that later. But again, it doesn't matter at all based on my testing cuz you really need good support and an ATK buffer. I haven't tested with Rina and Seth yet (both of which don't have proper discs according to the game and its data, so... I need to fix that first at some point, but at least I have their signatures and Rina's at the 3rd lvl even) and it's pointless to test with Astra cuz the answer is obvious, but it just goes to show how much you need good support characters now. The best way to test is the last SD node and there's plenty of time for this still left, just do it without Astra on both teams to see the real difference and get an "S" cuz Astra is too strong.

Anyway, it's partially my fault that I got her so late and wasted money to do it, but there's no way of knowing whether you'll lose 50/50 or not anyway, so I could've lost it before and not get dupe of SAnby or Trigger if it was her banner. So cuz of all this, I'll be skipping 1.7 and potentially 1.8 as well depending on what agents will be there, but 1.7 is a 1000% skip for me now no matter what when it comes to characters, thankfully I've 160+ days of sub so I don't need to worry about that at all for almost half a year. I might get Viv if and when they'll rerun her, we'll see, but what I know for sure right now is that I can do without her just fine.

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Pejo Pejo I don't think SD (beyond easy nodes) or DA is doable without Astra in one team or the other, so lvl 60 Rina with lvl 3 OCd signature and the right disc sets won't do shit (my gut is telling me that Seth won't help either). They simply made it so that Astra is mandatory for SD to save the time and buff DMG for one team or the other to get "S" rating / 3 medals. We need much better S rank Electric support with the similar strength to Astra and unfortunately he (or she) is not on the horizon.

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Finally finished building up both S-Anby and Trigger, but man... I had quite the shitty luck with S-Anby discs that now I'm almost broke. Going to take a while to recover the mats I've spent. :lollipop_pensive:
 
Since I'm skipping everyone since Evelyn I started building the 4 stars.

I don't know who to get next maybe Lighter for my Evelyn but I already have Koleda c2r1 and find her fun so nothing sure atm
 
Finally finished building up both S-Anby and Trigger, but man... I had quite the shitty luck with S-Anby discs that now I'm almost broke. Going to take a while to recover the mats I've spent. :lollipop_pensive:
I still don't have all good aftershock discs for Trigger, but the issue with her is that you need a lot of Crit Rate (which is not typical for a Stun character), you don't have F2P Crit Rate option for her when it comes to W-Engine and depending on your luck, if you'll have a lot (or decent) Crit Rate, you'll have shit Crit DMG and it makes it pointless. I haven't tested Trigger with Attack W-Engines yet so Idk how good or not they are for her.

I've like around 1500 energy right now and I could go and farm, but I'm just gonna wait for double drops and will stuck up on the free disc farming vouchers for the remaining of the 1.6, during the whole 1.7 and then go all in when double drops for discs will be active. I have to build Pulchra at some point so I'll be farming for both which is good.

I don't know who to get next maybe Lighter for my Evelyn but I already have Koleda c2r1 and find her fun so nothing sure atm
Lighter is so much better, you should look at getting him later during rerun and if it's doable for ya.
 
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Hum I see. I'll consider seriously then. He's a boxer too which is a plus
He's a lot faster without long af acrobatics and hammer swings like Koleda which wastes a lot of time, has a focus on dodge counters to build up daze (when you don't have enough energy for a long string of hits), builds up daze faster and great for more teams.
 
I still don't have all good aftershock discs for Trigger, but the issue with her is that you need a lot of Crit Rate (which is not typical for a Stun character), you don't have F2P Crit Rate option for her when it comes to W-Engine and depending on your luck, if you'll have a lot (or decent) Crit Rate, you'll have shit Crit DMG and it makes it pointless. I haven't tested Trigger with Attack W-Engines yet so Idk how good or not they are for her.

I've like around 1500 energy right now and I could go and farm, but I'm just gonna wait for double drops and will stuck up on the free disc farming vouchers for the remaining of the 1.6, during the whole 1.7 and then go all in when double drops for discs will be active. I have to build Pulchra at some point so I'll be farming for both which is good.
think they low key want you to pull for her signature weapon since it seems to solve all the build difficulties you're mentioning. :P

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I'm okay with the discs I've gotten for her, so I'm not falling for it. I'll only pull for sig weapons for void hunter tier agents like Miyabi. Everyone else will have to get by with the free and/or BP engines.

I also mentioned that I'm playing this game more casually, so I'm def not going to obsess over min-maxing builds.

Anyway, she's performing good enough for me in the team I have her in (S-Anby, Trigger and Lucy/Nicole) so I'm happy. :messenger_sunglasses:

 
think they low key want you to pull for her signature weapon since it seems to solve all the build difficulties you're mentioning. :p
Obviously :messenger_smirking: But I'm not doing that this time, maybe during rerun if I don't like characters from the banner.

It's not that I min-maxing a lot, I just want decent Crit DMG and Crit Rate, but so far I only have it for teams without SAnby with my second set for Daze build up and it's without her signature mind you, but since I'll be using her for SAnby team most of the time, I need at least comparable Aftershock set as well.
 
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Obviously :messenger_smirking: But I'm not doing that this time, maybe during rerun if I don't like characters from the banner.

It's not that I min-maxing a lot, I just want decent Crit DMG and Crit Rate, but so far I only have it for teams without SAnby with my second set for Daze build up and it's without her signature mind you, but since I'll be using her for SAnby team most of the time, I need at least comparable Aftershock set as well.
Not much I can add in that case, my man, other than to wish you the best of luck with getting the crit rolls you want on those discs you're farming! 🤞
 
Late to the party once again when it comes to going through the new story as I've been playing so much other stuff lately.

Anyway, here's some chill piano BGM I've recorded from the auction scene. Also, looking forward to Vivian's banner even though I'm not sure how many extra pulls I'll be managing to save till Apr 23. :messenger_grinning_sweat:

 
Damn Agent_4Seven Agent_4Seven , you weren't lying. Trigger's story was hands down the best written one we've gotten yet in the game. Everything relevant was included in game itself, there was a proper story flow. The stuff set up early in the story was all paid off at the end. Thought provoking and mature too. Really good stuff.

The only thing I got a laugh out of was the big deal they made about not revealing her codename when she's been called Trigger since her leak/drip marketing. I get that it was a symbolic thing with the Proxies, but it was still pretty silly.

I had a look at the picture of her old squad, and they all look NPC-ish, so I doubt we'll see any miraculous comebacks from any of them, but it's fine. The whole story was told about that part of her life. Any new stuff should move forward in the story.

It's even more crazy to me after doing that story quest that the Anby one was so bad by comparison. Did they give a plot summary to a janitor at HoYo and have him write the Anby one?
 
Pejo Pejo I've seen a lot of people praising Triggers story as well, after I finished it and decided to look for other people's opinions. It is the first character story that was shown during MVs and then expanded upon greatly in the game itself. It's simply incredible. As for the codename, I think Trigger just wanted to deal with her past and finally put it behind her (it clearly hunted her ever since and couldn't let her move on) to use her own codename again, which she did, so that we can explain. What we can't explain is again - the Obol logo on her uniform before she even joined the squad.

As for Anby one, I still don't fully agree with you (I explained why already), but Trigger's story is a lot better, that's for sure. You know what, I think at some point they need to go back, show and let us experience the fall of the old capital through story and gameplay, cuz I'm sure that there's a lot to be told there beyond audio recordings, even though they can be extremely effective when used right like in the Trigger's story.

Whoever wrote Trigger's story, should handle everything story and characters related from this point forward.
 
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Damn, you guys are really hyping up Trigger's story. I'm a bit behind on some of the agent stories, but I'm going to get to Trigger's soon, most likely next week.

In the meantime, gonna drop this gif I've made with her VHS promo:

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Damn, you guys are really hyping up Trigger's story. I'm a bit behind on some of the agent stories, but I'm going to get to Trigger's soon, most likely next week.

In the meantime, gonna drop this gif I've made with her VHS promo:

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Its nice but alot of yapping to say the same shit multiple times. S. Amby char story was much better.

Trigger improves any team i slot her in. Since i dont have S.Amby i placed her in my Yanagi team (Yanagi + Trigger + Caeser) and is damage + stun fest. And if i want to go overboard i place her in my Miyabi team (Miyabi + Trigger + Yanagi) and everething just melts away.

Trigger is also the easier character to use in the game, you want to start the fight with her and do 4 normal charged attacks, this will fill Trigger meter to the max and allows you to do a quick assist with the previous character, after this thers no need to change to Trigger again as her meter will last the entire battle, so thers no micromanagement like you need to do with Burnice, she just there in the sidelines dealing damage and stuns while you focusing using your damage dealders. The perfect Stun / Support unit mechanic in my book.
 
Trigger improves any team i slot her in. Since i dont have S.Amby i placed her in my Yanagi team (Yanagi + Trigger + Caeser) and is damage + stun fest. And if i want to go overboard i place her in my Miyabi team (Miyabi + Trigger + Yanagi) and everething just melts away.
Are you... hopefully using 4pc Impact discs? It's just Aftershock set is nowhere near as useful without SAnby on the team (she buffs aftershocks).

Trigger is also the easier character to use in the game, you want to start the fight with her and do 4 normal charged attacks, this will fill Trigger meter to the max and allows you to do a quick assist with the previous character, after this thers no need to change to Trigger again as her meter will last the entire battle, so thers no micromanagement like you need to do with Burnice, she just there in the sidelines dealing damage and stuns while you focusing using your damage dealders. The perfect Stun / Support unit mechanic in my book.
Nope. She's not as easy as you say and you need to switch to her to use her kit properly.

It's an illusion that you can just fill her energy meter by shooting a few times, let her do aftershocks and be in the background the rest of the battle like Astra buffing ATK. Some of Trigger's skills rely on quick swaps from her, use EX attack and then back to her, her daze damage multiplier stays active for a long time, so you can add Qingyi to the team and go over +300% by using her kit as well, stun enemies faster and have better DMG multiplier during stun window. Moreover, Trigger can stay on field longer and has great I frames and automatic dodge when being attacked after which you can launch 2 counter attacks (regular and EX one to build up daze).

So yeah, Trigger is more complex than you describing her and not completely off field stunner. I haven't tested Pulchra with her cuz I only have good discs for her and haven't lvld her up and her skills at all (don't have mats for Physical characters), but it looks like she's also great with Pulchra, but SAnby also must be on the team cuz both Pulchra and Trigger are aftershock stunners and again, SAnby buffs aftershocks greatly and the only character in the game who does that.
 
Are you... hopefully using 4pc Impact discs? It's just Aftershock set is nowhere near as useful without SAnby on the team (she buffs aftershocks).
No, the 4 impact discs require you to be onfield, and i use Trigger off field the entire time except for the ocasional defence assist.

Im using the aftershock 4 piece set cuz even without S.Amby all my trigger attacks off field will be aftershock attacks and that set also adds a buff that increases the crit rate, and the more crit rate Trigger has the more daze her aftershock attacks do, so the more she stuns while being off field. So for the way i play her, that is pretty much pop 4 shots to fill her metter and let her do her things while being off field, the aftershock seems a better option for her.

Trigger in my teams is not working as a pure stunner and more like a damage amplifier that also helps stun the characters faster.

Is this the most effective way to use her? No cuz she was build to use as a duo with S.Amby. As i said, this game dosent interest me anymore for the gameplay mechanics, i use the characters in a way that feels fun for me to play. I dont care about min maxing or the sweat content, cuz this POS game dosent allow me to get all the characters i need, so i play it casual to clear just the bare minimum to get more polys to pull for the next hot waifu. Even so, i manage to do 6 stars (all you need to get all polys available) in the game mode that require 3 teams, so why bother with anything else?
 
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So, I got her as well now, but I've bad news. SAnby + Trigger can't do shit without great Support character on the team to hugely buff ATK and Yanagi won't help at all to fix this even with her disorders. It also doesn't matter which engine you'll be using outside of her signature (which I don't have and I don't care), cuz the DMG just won't be there and I tested with both Lycaon and F2P W-engine.

I've two sets ready for Aftershocks (1) and Daze Buildup (2) in case I won't have SAnby available:


One is better than the other when it comes to Crit DMG (the rest like ATK and Impact is W-Engine difference - Lycaon vs. F2P + better sub stats for HP etc. so pay no mind to this), but I don't have a good Crit DMG disc for Aftershocks so I might fix that later. But again, it doesn't matter at all based on my testing cuz you really need good support and an ATK buffer. I haven't tested with Rina and Seth yet (both of which don't have proper discs according to the game and its data, so... I need to fix that first at some point, but at least I have their signatures and Rina's at the 3rd lvl even) and it's pointless to test with Astra cuz the answer is obvious, but it just goes to show how much you need good support characters now. The best way to test is the last SD node and there's plenty of time for this still left, just do it without Astra on both teams to see the real difference and get an "S" cuz Astra is too strong.

Anyway, it's partially my fault that I got her so late and wasted money to do it, but there's no way of knowing whether you'll lose 50/50 or not anyway, so I could've lost it before and not get dupe of SAnby or Trigger if it was her banner. So cuz of all this, I'll be skipping 1.7 and potentially 1.8 as well depending on what agents will be there, but 1.7 is a 1000% skip for me now no matter what when it comes to characters, thankfully I've 160+ days of sub so I don't need to worry about that at all for almost half a year. I might get Viv if and when they'll rerun her, we'll see, but what I know for sure right now is that I can do without her just fine.

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Pejo Pejo I don't think SD (beyond easy nodes) or DA is doable without Astra in one team or the other, so lvl 60 Rina with lvl 3 OCd signature and the right disc sets won't do shit (my gut is telling me that Seth won't help either). They simply made it so that Astra is mandatory for SD to save the time and buff DMG for one team or the other to get "S" rating / 3 medals. We need much better S rank Electric support with the similar strength to Astra and unfortunately he (or she) is not on the horizon.

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Do you have Ceaser for your Anby, Trigger Team? I got better times with Ceasen than M1 Rina.
 
Aenima Aenima I like to play her on field as well to get the most out of her kit without her signature. But even without her signature, she's the most fun and cool stunner in the game to date, Qingyi is not bad as well but she likes to stand in one place and not move a lot.

Even so, i manage to do 6 stars (all you need to get all polys available) in the game mode that require 3 teams, so why bother with anything else?
Oh, I'll even go as far as to say that you don't need any of the characters from the banners and people cleared end game stuff without them. And when it comes to the story, you don't need new characters at all.

I can't imagine how you can get everyone you want from banners while being completely F2P, it is just impossible in miHoYo games and even in WuWa, Girls Frontline 2 and some others which are not so great with free pulls, characters etc. as Nikke and others.

Ananta and a few other gachas take way too much time to be the oven and must be available yesterday to create serious competition to miHoYo and make them change how they operate. Have you seen what they did for HSR 3.0? With all the bad stuff they did, I think we can expect new character kits from the Lost Void to be available in the regular gameplay at some point (maybe after 2.0), cuz they sure as shit won't be releasing more A ranks and give them away for free, not to mention they won't stop releasing 2 characters per update which is a huge problem not only for F2P people.

Do you have Ceaser for your Anby, Trigger Team? I got better times with Ceasen than M1 Rina.
I have everyone they've released so far and yes, you can do it with Caesar and I did it. Caesar act as a support as well, buffs ATK and deals great amount of Daze too, not to mention the shield and anti-interrupt she provides.
 
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Aenima Aenima
I can't imagine how you can get everyone you want from banners while being completely F2P, it is just impossible in miHoYo games and even in WuWa, Girls Frontline 2 and some others which are not so great with free pulls, characters etc. as Nikke and others.
Its mathematical impossible in Hoyotrash games and any other games that copy its trash pitty system with drop rates below 1%. Reason why i droped from GF2, WuWa and all other Hoyotrash games except ZZZ, untill i eventually drop it too. When i start playing these games i already go with the mentality that im not gonna stick with these games for very long as i aleady know i have to pick and choose what i pull and what i need to skip. Its extremelly greedy to have a dupes system + weapon system + dupes for weapon system, and not even make it possible to get 1 copy of each character.

I can get all characters in Nikke and that game dosent even have weapon banners. Last summer they had 6 limited banners going on, 2 banners with 2 new characetrs, and 4 rerun characters, i pulled in all banners and got all the characters without even using the game pitty system (Trading pitty tickets directly for the character) I can also get all characters in Brown Dust II. I started playing Brown Dust 2 seven months after release, and after 1 year playing it i already got all characters in the game, some of them fully maxed out with dupes. Reason these 2 games are the only games i have no intentions to ever stop playing untill they reach EOS.

Ananta could shake things up if matched or surpassed the quality of Hoyo games, but they also needed decent drop rates for the banners, cuz if they go and just copy paste hoyo pitty system like most chinese games do, then Hoyo stays chilling cuz they Genshin comunity is too big and most will not stop playing it no matter how much Hoyo screws them.
 
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Its mathematical impossible in Hoyotrash games and any other games that copy its trash pitty system with drop rates below 1%. Reason why i droped from GF2, WuWa and all other Hoyotrash games except ZZZ, untill i eventually drop it too.
I mean, even 75/25 is not the answer and not always work in your favour, but 50/50 needs to be eliminated from all gacha games and weapons should have 100%. What I like about GF2 is that you don't even need Elite weapons from the banners and you can get free elite weapons by just playing the game and buy buying BP, the only catch is there's no SMGs there.

I can get all characters in Nikke and that game dosent even have weapon banners. Last summer they had 6 limited banners going on, 2 banners with 2 new characetrs, and 4 rerun characters, i pulled in all banners and got all the characters without even using the game pitty system (Trading pitty tickets directly for the character) I can also get all characters in Brown Dust II. I started playing Brown Dust 2 seven months after release, and after 1 year playing it i already got all characters in the game, some of them fully maxed out with dupes. Reason these 2 games are the only games i have no intentions to ever stop playing untill they reach EOS.
Idk how can you expected something like this from miHoYo games, it's absolutely impossible.

Why are you still playing ZZZ ma dude? I mean, it can't be just cuz of... well, ya know:messenger_smirking:
Are you still interested in the story and such (if you ever been that is)?:messenger_smiling_with_eyes:
 
I mean, even 75/25 is not the answer and not always work in your favour, but 50/50 needs to be eliminated from all gacha games and weapons should have 100%. What I like about GF2 is that you don't even need Elite weapons from the banners and you can get free elite weapons by just playing the game and buy buying BP, the only catch is there's no SMGs there.


Idk how can you expected something like this from miHoYo games, it's absolutely impossible.

Why are you still playing ZZZ ma dude? I mean, it can't be just cuz of... well, ya know:messenger_smirking:
Are you still interested in the story and such (if you ever been that is)?:messenger_smiling_with_eyes:
The way i would do to be fair for F2P, was drop the 50/50 and make it garanteed after reaching 100 pulls. Same for weapon banner but no dupe system for weapons. Enouth currency to do at least 100 pulls as F2P. This way all F2P players could get at least 1 copy of each character, leaving weapons and characters dupes for wales. Also instead of 2 new S rank chars per update, just 1 new S rank + 1 new A rank . Im not expecting Hoyo to ever do this, they print money being the greedy mofo they are thers no reason for them as a business to change anything untill thers stronger competition.

ZZZ story is serviceable at best the only gacha game where i really enjoy the story is Nikke, but ZZZ story has been improving and the story has became a bit more interesting in these last updates, so i enjoy it enough to not skip it. Mostly just character story and main story, i skip all yapping from events as soon i see they are just filler.

Thers several reason why i sill play ZZZ:

- ZZZ has some of the best 3d character model and animations, i love some of them, Jane Doe to me is peak character design. (Them jiggle physics also help)
- Urban setting with an 80's vibe. Me growing up renting VHS movies, then in my teens getting into grafitty, i feel like home when im in the 6th street. (Untill Ananta comes out i dont see any other games with the same vibe) Thers NTE also, but i have low expectations for that game because of the dev track reccord. Im still gonna try it out when it launches.
- ZZZ dailies are super low time consuming, you can do the dailies in 5 minutes or less and be done with it. This is a good thing for me, as sometimes i just want to play another game but its very fast to just collect the rewards from the dailies in ZZZ and move to other game. If this game had a big time investment for the dailies i would not be still playing it for sure.
- Combat is still satisfying, its simple but i like combat systems based on reaction times, so im still having fun with this game combat when playing it casual. I could have been having more fun if i could use the characters i wanted, but Hoyo dosent want me to have that much fun as F2P.

Bottom line, is lack of a good alternative with the same setting. Reason why i say i probably drop ZZZ when Ananta comes out, but for that to happen Ananta needs to deliver. But they are also from China, so im not expecting any generous gacha systems as well. But Ananta open world seems much more appealing to me.
ShiftUp is also working on a 3D game for mobile + pc and consoles, so it will probably be ShiftUp take on a open world gacha game, i will be there day 1, but its still 2 or 3 years away from launching.
 
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- ZZZ dailies are super low time consuming, you can do the dailies in 5 minutes or less and be done with it. This is a good thing for me, as sometimes i just want to play another game but its very fast to just collect the rewards from the dailies in ZZZ and move to other game. If this game had a big time investment for the dailies i would not be still playing it for sure.
This is one of the reasons why I stoped playing WuWa for a while, cuz dailies there take too much time for my liking where as in ZZZ it's just a few min as you mentioned and you're good to go and do / play something else.

- Combat is still satisfying, its simple but i like combat systems based on reaction times, so im still having fun with this game combat when playing it casual. I could have been having more fun if i could use the characters i wanted, but Hoyo dosent want me to have that much fun as F2P.
It's one of the best combat systems I ever seen, even better than what DMC has (incl. DMCV), which is a lot more focused on brain-dead combos and less on technical complexity and satisfying combat feedback you get in ZZZ with excellent counter and deflection systems, sound design, animations etc. Lost Void stuff made it even better and I hope they'll add all new kits to the regular gameplay at some point, there's just no reason not to.

Bottom line, is lack of a good alternative with the same setting. Reason why i say i probably drop ZZZ when Ananta comes out, but for that to happen Ananta needs to deliver. But they are also from China, so im not expecting any generous gacha systems as well. But Ananta open world seems much more appealing to me.
From the looks of it, Ananta is a much bigger and ambitious game. But yeah, I'll keep my expectations in check for this one, not to mention that we haven't seen any direct and unedited gameplay.
 
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I like the game and think it does a lot of things well, but the combat is surface level at best and doesn't even get within satellite distance of a proper character action game combat, especially with the pedigree and flexibility/freedom of the DMC series...
I'll tell you this, man. After playin' DMCV and getting bored out of my mind of its combo system and the amount of time you need to spend killing regular mobs or something a bit bigger... UGH. My fuckin' thumbs were so tired of pressing buttons that the last 2 hrs of the game I just want it to end SO BAD! I haven't played that game since and Virgil stuff as well even though I have it.

You can do more in DMC with air combos and stuff, yes, but it's just not fun when they throw at you mob after mob (or a lot of them at ones) with shit ton of HP and force you to do the same exact shit over and over and over and over and over again, the same exact combos to keep this fuckin combo meter as hight as possible and for effin' what? MGR and Bayonetta are so much better and a lot more satisfying when it comes to combat.

ZZZs combat is not as complex as in Bayonetta for example and there's not a lot of freedom in it meaning that you always glued to the ground and can't do shit in the air, but it's overall simplicity with different character kits makes it better and a lot more satisfying on so many levels combined with as I've said excellent deflection system, counter attacks, sound design and animations, that DMC simply can't compare to all this and not even close. I like playing ZZZ far more than DMCV even during the first 5 hrs of it in terms of combat.

Moreover, they could've made ZZZs combat much more complex and I think they already have everything to make it happen without stupid HP and DMG inflation, but it needs to be super accessable or else people will drop it instantly.
 
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I like the game and think it does a lot of things well, but the combat is surface level at best and doesn't even get within satellite distance of a proper character action game combat, especially with the pedigree and flexibility/freedom of the DMC series...
Ironically the most straightforward character, 11, is the one that comes closest to the technical difficulty of DMC because she requires timed hits like Nero, but even honkai pt2 is more complex then ZZZ imo with some bosses requiring specific ground vs air dodges and astral ring functioning as a pseudo devil trigger.
 
You can also do combo and animation cancels to shorten the time of / skip long animations, there's also cool stuff you can do with proper quick swapping and rotations at the right time. There's so much stuff you can do in ZZZ... but you really don't need to cuz the worst enemy of this game is how easy and approachable it is, meaning you can just pick Miyabi and spam X, which I'm sure a lot of casuals are doing cuz they can't be bothered to engage with more difficult stuff and learn the game's systems, character kits... and can you blame them? Cuz again, you don't really need all this stuff or be good at the game even.

This (amongst other things) is what saddens me, cuz they have all this cool stuff and they can't go all in to make the game more technically difficult, easy to learn and hard to master. One can argue that - "they sure could've done that for the end game content, so why they're not doing it?" to which I say - cuz it's easy and cost effective to just add stuppid timers, inflate HP and DMG if it's only for the end game stuff and the whole it not build around more complex combat and hard to master technical staff, some of it is there, but it's being held hostage by accessibility for casual audience and full freedom of expression is not there along with the air combat which can enable it.

Like, I'm not saying DMCV combat is terrible Pejo Pejo , god forbid, it's just everything being known in comparison, there wasn't ZZZ just a year ago and ZZZ's combat is a lot more satisfying to me than anything in DMCV. Of course ZZZ has an unfair advantage which is that you've LOTs of diverse characters with their own combat kits between which you can swap during combat and do some impressive shit, there's a few mechanics and new stuff Sekiro introduced which DMCV (and DMC in general) don't have as well. I've been playing ZZZ for almost a year, who knows for how many hours (there's no counter) and didn't get bored of its combat to this day. I've said a few times that it's not doing it for me anymore, but what I meant by that is that I don't like what they're doing with restrictive timers, HP and DMG inflation in the end game and that the towers are complete shit and then they started to add more to character's kits in the Lost Void and now I've no complaints, can just ignore the stuff I don't like and go play Lost Void, where as before it was only SD, bad HZ and terrible towers.

I've played all DMC games starting with 3 when it was ported to PC the first time, I loved it and DMC4 as well (not the boss rush part of it which you need to do TWO (!!!!) times, that was BAD) but after playin' Bayonetta, MGR and Sekiro, DMCV didn't do anything for me personally in terms of combat and I hate Vs guts - literally the worst character imaginable you can have in a character action game. DMC stuck in the past when it comes to combat gameplay and I don't think it's a good thing for the IP, cuz it can be so much better now if they just add more modern and cool mechanics to the game, make it less arcade-like, make you fill each impact be it your own attack, parry or deflection, make it less about combo spamming and more about strategic planning with the kit and weapons you have available and at the same time not abandon freedom you had before.

There's rumors about DMC6 floating around and unless they'll make some necessary changes to make the combat and gameplay loop better, I don't know how I can possibly care. Like, outdated and monotonous combat and V is the only two things (well, stupid af censoring clouds as well) I didn't like about DMCV which is only about 15hrs long and it's still managed to bore me with it's combat design, like, Idk what else to say, it is what it is. I guess the old and stuck in the past DMC combat formula is just not for me anymore.

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Saving all my polys for Yi Xuan:pie_starstruck:

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Season 2 Teaser will be released on April 13th.
 
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Ironically the most straightforward character, 11, is the one that comes closest to the technical difficulty of DMC because she requires timed hits like Nero, but even honkai pt2 is more complex then ZZZ imo with some bosses requiring specific ground vs air dodges and astral ring functioning as a pseudo devil trigger.
The big shame is that HI3 APHO2 is probably some of the most fun combat in any character action gacha, and they abandoned it to keep the main story rotation-heavy like Part 1 was, despite the 3 axis combat with the jump button and Astral Ring system being added.

It annoys me that ZZZ sorta penalizes you for actually using the mechanics, such as dedicated on-field stunners ruining your DPS time and using defensive assists not pausing the timer during the mini-cutscenes so you dig yourself into a hole. If 99% of ZZZ content wasn't timer-based, it'd be fine, but that's not how it goes.

Agent_4Seven Agent_4Seven I'm not saying the game's combat is bad, but it's very basic. DMC, (even V from DMC5) allows for lots of creativity in how you approach it, and you can change your approach from enemy to enemy/encounter to encounter. ZZZ is the same format over and over again. You mention that ZZZ has lots of characters with different kits that make up for the lack of each character's movesets, but imagine if DMC charged you $90 or weeks of your time to swap weapons, something like that. Just by nature of ZZZ being a gacha, it's going to artificially limit the fun and skill expression so that they can sell you more of a character (cinema stuff, W-Engines) or a future character (Harumasa -> S.Anby).

Nothing wrong that you like this particular flavor of combat though. I like having the 3rd axis (jump button, juggles, etc), but ZZZ is very stylish and plays really smooth.

And yea Yi Xuan looks really cool. Is she a Void Hunter or just a CN mystic character?
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Agent_4Seven Agent_4Seven I'm not saying the game's combat is bad, but it's very basic. DMC, (even V from DMC5) allows for lots of creativity in how you approach it, and you can change your approach from enemy to enemy/encounter to encounter. ZZZ is the same format over and over again. You mention that ZZZ has lots of characters with different kits that make up for the lack of each character's movesets, but imagine if DMC charged you $90 or weeks of your time to swap weapons, something like that. Just by nature of ZZZ being a gacha, it's going to artificially limit the fun and skill expression so that they can sell you more of a character (cinema stuff, W-Engines) or a future character (Harumasa -> S.Anby).

Nothing wrong that you like this particular flavor of combat though. I like having the 3rd axis (jump button, juggles, etc), but ZZZ is very stylish and plays really smooth.
I just don't want you to get my words wrong, ma dude. I've nothing against more complex combat and skill expressions, quite the opposite, but as I also explained, everything for it is already in ZZZ. but they can't go more hardcore cuz of it being a gacha game which needs to be as casual friendly as possible. I just want this stylish, smooth and satisfying combat gameplay with excellent sound design and animations in more games, but not the gacha nature of it.

And yea Yi Xuan looks really cool. Is she a Void Hunter or just a CN mystic character?

fd1bsfs5cjte1.png
She's a leader of the Yunkui Summit faction from 2.0. (we've seen another member of it in 1.6 while exploring Lost Void). I don't think they'll be releasing another Void Hunter so soon, but her looks and design sure indicates that she's as unique as Miyabi, so we'll see. 2.0 teaser will be released in just a few days.
 
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Tl;dw of the dev talk via /u/PM_ME_YOUR_ROBOTGIRL on reddit:
  • Yi Xuan will be the main focus of 2.0's story, which will also start off Season 2. Alongside Yi Xuan and her faction Yunkui Summit, Obols Squad and Angels of Delusion will also be important factions in 2.x. A teaser will release on April 13th to tease these factions and the story of Season 2.
  • We will manage a new area in Season 2 instead of the video store, Yi Xuan's dojo. This place is set in a new location called Waifei Peninsula, which is next to the Lemnian Hollow. Instead of using the HDD to enter Missions, we will enter the Lemnian Hollow directly.
  • Yi Xuan will be the Proxies' mentor.
  • There will be greater care put into reducing loading screens; for example, you'll be able to go between the city area in Waifei Peninsula and the new dojo interior seamlessly.
  • Traveling between different areas will be changed to involve a map of New Eridu, instead of just the slider that it is now. There will also be a minimap during overworld exploration.
  • Special Episodes will now simply be merged into the main story. No idea if he meant this in a retroactive sense, or if he just means Special Episodes won't really exist in the future and their purpose will be fulfilled by main story chapters.
  • ZZZ on Xbox.
  • They want the combat system to feel more like 3 agents fighting together, instead of just purely focusing on the Main DPS. So, in the future, support Agents' kits will involve more out of field actions that are visible in battle. We have already seen a preview of this with Trigger and Sanby's aftershocks, but 2.x's kits will be even more involved in this regard.
  • New enemy combat design that "encourages teamwork between Agents", whatever that means.
  • Old events such as Grand Marcel Adventure and Bangboo vs Ethereals will continue to return with more improvements. This is similar to what HSR and Genshin already do with returning events. There will also be more kinds of events, such as Bangboo duels, controlling a giant Bangboo mecha in combat, and light and fluffy SoL events where you do fun things with your Agents. There will still be combat events of course.
  • Older characters will be buffed. Or at least, this is heavily implied. Not limited to just numerical changes, characters' kits will also be altered with new moves. It seems Lost Void's agent gear was a preview/test for this. Furthermore, the kits of new Agents will also take the kits of older characters into consideration. So, not just direct buffs and alterations, but Agents will continue to get future partners that can enhance their teams.
  • Older Agents will still get to feature heavily in the main story, even after Season 2 and beyond.
 
  • Older characters will be buffed. Or at least, this is heavily implied. Not limited to just numerical changes, characters' kits will also be altered with new moves. It seems Lost Void's agent gear was a preview/test for this. Furthermore, the kits of new Agents will also take the kits of older characters into consideration. So, not just direct buffs and alterations, but Agents will continue to get future partners that can enhance their teams.
  • Older Agents will still get to feature heavily in the main story, even after Season 2 and beyond.
The big takeaways for me, personally. They also said they were buffing old characters soon in HSR, so we'll see what they actually mean here. Using Lost Void as a testbed is great if true. I almost universally love the buffed kits we get to use in there.

Downside is it looks like we're entering the "China nation arc" that every HoYo game has, and for the most part I find those areas to be insufferable. Liyue in Genshin, The Luofu in HSR. It's not that I have a problem with Chinese culture, but the areas always end up looking like a bunch of shacks and shipping containers and 90% of the lore is just talking about how awesome everybody that lives there is. So far, ZZZ avoided that type of shit directly, but it sounds like it's coming up in full force.
 
Btw, cool that the idol faction will finally make their appearance in season 2 (I was actually thinking when ZZZ will share more info on them just yesterday, lol).

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Special Episodes will now simply be merged into the main story. No idea if he meant this in a retroactive sense, or if he just means Special Episodes won't really exist in the future and their purpose will be fulfilled by main story chapters.
He said that they will do as best as they can to integrate special episodes and character stories into the main story and make changes to the 1.x to reflect that at some point when they'll figure out how to do it without hurting the narrative and continuity. 2.x will have the changes right away as soon as they start releaseing updates between major story ones and character stories.

They want the combat system to feel more like 3 agents fighting together, instead of just purely focusing on the Main DPS. So, in the future, support Agents' kits will involve more out of field actions that are visible in battle. We have already seen a preview of this with Trigger and Sanby's aftershocks, but 2.x's kits will be even more involved in this regard.
Yeah, that'll be a massive change for how combat will work and it won't be just what Trigger and SAnby are doing, they'll make changes to enemies as well to make you use different tactics, agents and their kits, so it's not only visual visibility of other agents involvement, but also direct actions from us using all agents during combat like it's one unit and not just one main DPS everyone dance around like in 1.x.

Older characters will be buffed. Or at least, this is heavily implied. Not limited to just numerical changes, characters' kits will also be altered with new moves. It seems Lost Void's agent gear was a preview/test for this. Furthermore, the kits of new Agents will also take the kits of older characters into consideration. So, not just direct buffs and alterations, but Agents will continue to get future partners that can enhance their teams.
From what I understand, it won't be reflected in the regular gameplay yet and they're showing Lost Void so I would wait before expecting too much during regular gameplay and especially new combat kits from Lost Void. They might wait to add all this to the regular gameplay when they feel like it's time and based on feedback.

Anyway, lots of cool changes there and thank fuck there's going to be a normal map instead of the terrible thing we have now. As for mini-map, I think it's a result of the huge new area from 2.0 and I wonder if they'll add area maps as well. They will aslo be adding more stuff to the new 2.0 location with future updates.
 
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Tl;dw of the dev talk via /u/PM_ME_YOUR_ROBOTGIRL on reddit:
  • Yi Xuan will be the main focus of 2.0's story, which will also start off Season 2. Alongside Yi Xuan and her faction Yunkui Summit, Obols Squad and Angels of Delusion will also be important factions in 2.x. A teaser will release on April 13th to tease these factions and the story of Season 2.
  • We will manage a new area in Season 2 instead of the video store, Yi Xuan's dojo. This place is set in a new location called Waifei Peninsula, which is next to the Lemnian Hollow. Instead of using the HDD to enter Missions, we will enter the Lemnian Hollow directly.
  • Yi Xuan will be the Proxies' mentor.
  • There will be greater care put into reducing loading screens; for example, you'll be able to go between the city area in Waifei Peninsula and the new dojo interior seamlessly.
  • Traveling between different areas will be changed to involve a map of New Eridu, instead of just the slider that it is now. There will also be a minimap during overworld exploration.
  • Special Episodes will now simply be merged into the main story. No idea if he meant this in a retroactive sense, or if he just means Special Episodes won't really exist in the future and their purpose will be fulfilled by main story chapters.
  • ZZZ on Xbox.
  • They want the combat system to feel more like 3 agents fighting together, instead of just purely focusing on the Main DPS. So, in the future, support Agents' kits will involve more out of field actions that are visible in battle. We have already seen a preview of this with Trigger and Sanby's aftershocks, but 2.x's kits will be even more involved in this regard.
  • New enemy combat design that "encourages teamwork between Agents", whatever that means.
  • Old events such as Grand Marcel Adventure and Bangboo vs Ethereals will continue to return with more improvements. This is similar to what HSR and Genshin already do with returning events. There will also be more kinds of events, such as Bangboo duels, controlling a giant Bangboo mecha in combat, and light and fluffy SoL events where you do fun things with your Agents. There will still be combat events of course.
  • Older characters will be buffed. Or at least, this is heavily implied. Not limited to just numerical changes, characters' kits will also be altered with new moves. It seems Lost Void's agent gear was a preview/test for this. Furthermore, the kits of new Agents will also take the kits of older characters into consideration. So, not just direct buffs and alterations, but Agents will continue to get future partners that can enhance their teams.
  • Older Agents will still get to feature heavily in the main story, even after Season 2 and beyond.
Looks like there's a small typo in the bolded part of my tl;dw. It should say Waifu Peninsula instead of Waifei Peninsula. :messenger_grinning_sweat:

Edit: Here's a gif I've made with Yi Xuan from the dev talk video:

KlfLeZx.gif
 
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Thinking about them saying they're mixing the character stories in with the main story. Not sure I like that at all. HSR started doing that sometime last year and it's a fucking disaster in my opinion. They do these random forced perspective shifts and literally force characters into the story just because they have a banner running. It really hurt the narrative there, in my opinion. I think the side stories as they're doing them in ZZZ works pretty well, but they need to do stories relating to the proxies instead of just a bunch of nobody NPCs.
 
Like, I'm sorry, but how can you pull for anyone in 1.7 instead of saving pollys for Yi Xuan in 2.0?

I'm not alking about you here Thick Thighs Save Lives Thick Thighs Save Lives , but just in general about anyone who's playing ZZZ now and who's not a whale with lots of disposable income.

Thinking about them saying they're mixing the character stories in with the main story. Not sure I like that at all. HSR started doing that sometime last year and it's a fucking disaster in my opinion. They do these random forced perspective shifts and literally force characters into the story just because they have a banner running. It really hurt the narrative there, in my opinion. I think the side stories as they're doing them in ZZZ works pretty well, but they need to do stories relating to the proxies instead of just a bunch of nobody NPCs.
THIS 100%! I haven't played HSR enough so Idk how it works there, but we can only hope that this new team won't be making the same mistakes. We'll have to wait and see.
 
Like, I'm sorry, but how can you pull for anyone in 1.7 instead of saving pollys for Yi Xuan in 2.0?

I'm not alking about you here Thick Thighs Save Lives Thick Thighs Save Lives , but just in general about anyone who's playing ZZZ now and who's not a whale with lots of disposable income.


THIS 100%! I haven't played HSR enough so Idk how it works there, but we can only hope that this new team won't be making the same mistakes. We'll have to wait and see.
I know you're speaking in general, but I'll def be pulling for best girl Vivian in the next patch.

But yeah, I can see where you're coming from. Hopefully, they give us plenty of pulls for the anniversary patch.

Edit: I only purchase the monthly and sometimes the BP so def not a whale, probably not even a fish. :P
 
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I know you're speaking in general, but I'll def be pulling for best girl Vivian in the next patch.
I'll get her via rerun (if it'll make sense at that point), it's already decided.

But yeah, I can see where you're coming from. Hopefully, they give us plenty of pulls for the anniversary patch.
Yeah, hopefully it'll be the same as with Miyabi (1.5 months) so that everyone will get a change to get at least one copy of her and potentially her W-Engine, plus the dev team will have more time to cook 2.1.

Edit: I only purchase the monthly and sometimes the BP so def not a whale, probably not even a fish. :p
Plankton maybe?:messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
When I started the stream and this character was introduced, I briefly thought I had clicked wrong and i was watching HSR or Genshin stream. Absolutely not a fan of these new designs since Astra( Vivian, Sanby and this new one).

Otherwise, what they have planned for 2.0 sounds interesting.
 
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I doubt they'd just port over lost void enhancements 1:1 for regular gameplay, miyabi's gap to everyone else would increase by a crazy amount which would obviously be problematic; they haven't done this with the elysian realm in honkai either.
 
Like, I'm sorry, but how can you pull for anyone in 1.7 instead of saving pollys for Yi Xuan in 2.0?

I'm not alking about you here Thick Thighs Save Lives Thick Thighs Save Lives , but just in general about anyone who's playing ZZZ now and who's not a whale with lots of disposable income.
I need Ether damage, so therefor I pull. Viv also was kinda endearing in the story, and I'm curious how the proxies "saved" her without even knowing about her, so I'm interested in that story. But yea, Hugo was a "maybe" pull depending on his kit, but I'm afraid he'll be a skip now so I have resources for sensei.
THIS 100%! I haven't played HSR enough so Idk how it works there, but we can only hope that this new team won't be making the same mistakes. We'll have to wait and see.
In HSR they go like 30% into a new part of the main story as the main character, then out of nowhere you shift perspective to the banner character, where you're forced to run around and see flashbacks and shit AS them, right in the middle of the main story, then it goes back to the MC to finish the quest. And the plot reasons for having to switch to them at that moment are usually poorly written or nonsensical. It pretty much ruined the last half of their 2.x version and continues to be an annoyance in 3.x. At least in 3.x they have the characters central to the plot from the beginning, so it doesn't feel as much like they're just jamming them in to sell their banners, despite them doing exactly that.

I doubt they'd just port over lost void enhancements 1:1 for regular gameplay, miyabi's gap to everyone else would increase by a crazy amount which would obviously be problematic; they haven't done this with the elysian realm in honkai either.
Yea I don't think it will be a direct 1:1 port, but like Ellen's ice slash combo finisher and Yanagi's quickslashes (not her lightning, that's too OP for example). I think they can pick and choose from stuff introduced in LV and make it so they're just more complete/competitive instead of just outright bringing all of their exclusive gears over. That's the beauty of using LV as a testbed, they can see what works, what helps, and what's too overpowered for weeks/months before adding it to the main game. Like a live beta within the game.
Ning should have been a 5* character. Huge mistake on their part imo.
Supposedly she actually was, in the early betas. I forget who was a 4* that got swapped in her place.
 
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