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[Monkeygourmet]

Also the fact that the media are all running essentially the same story (Alec “Died”) at the same time (or omitting it’s occurrence completely) added to the fact that almost all have shut off comments shows a huge degree of ‘behind the scenes’ communication.

There are no doubt emails and PMs wizzing about as we speak to ensure everyone ‘gets in line’.

It’s exactly what happened when everyone awoke to the same news that ‘Gamers are Dead’.

It’s obviously coordinated.

 

[hariseldon]

So his parents are part of a cult? Or are you just making some assumptions to back up a position here?

This is a clear case of someone killing themselves in response to ill-considered actions instigated by another. That somehow his parents are going to be ok with all that time, effort, energy and hope they put into raising their son being flushed away because of internet drama is a huge reach. If Zoe Quinn drunkenly ran him over in a car instread do you think they would somehow be ok with that also, simply because of who she is? I'm not buying it.

I get it that some people here think that she's beyond justice, and who knows maybe this will just turn out to be one of those sad internet tales but at the end of the day, I'm not sure she'll be embraced with open arms by the mainstream gaming press any more, or most others aside from the blue hair brigade

As I said, it was speculative. However, how do you think both kids end up horrifically woke, members of the cult surrounded only by that type, with mental health issues? It doesn't happen by magic. I'd put the chances of coincidence at about the same as the people who adopted 3 kids who all magically happened to be trans. Now to be clear, I do regard the social justice movement as a cult. That they are so uniform in their opinions, appearances, manner of speech, that they encourage individuals to shun their friends and family (a classic abuse tactic to isolate an individual from those who might help them), all this to me screams cult. Now the tweets we've seen (ok one may be fake, but the other is known not to be) about giving money to Zoe.. I mean really that's proper cult shit right there. And the nature of the suicide, that she had called him out over a social justice issue, that that is what killed him, may make a cult-driven family more likely to side with Zoe (as we've already seen with the sister).

As to being above the law.. that can play out a couple of ways. She gets dealt with properly and the usual lot will scream about injustice against non-binary women or whatever bullshit - there'll be Alex Jones level conspiracy stuff flying about. The gaming press will see her as a martyr (with no trace of irony) and double down on it. She gets off.. do you honestly think the likes of RPS and Eurogamer won't continue to lick her metaphorical balls? I can assure you they'll still be licking them, and those of her fellow nutters. The industry will remain infested, like chopping the head off a hydra, another will simply take its place.

 

[Doczu]

It’s exactly what happened when everyone awoke to the same news that ‘Gamers are Dead’.

It’s obviously coordinated.

Yup, GG was not chasing imaginary problems. They are still here, after all these years.
The same circle jerk of journalists are covering for themself, creating a narrative and phishing, and scamming people out of their money, time (and in the end) wellbeing.
Fuck them.

 

[hariseldon]

One correction: I don't think Chelsea's doing it for money... exactly. Don't get me wrong, her Patreon had an amazing habit of increasing every time she claimed to be harassed, at least a few years ago - hard to tell now that her earnings are private. However one of the reasons why back in the day no one believed the WizardChan story was because well, her game Depression Quest is free. It's why everyone wrote the whole thing off as being a weirdo conspiracy. However it did happen around the same time DQ was languishing on Steam's greenlight system and the resulting press she got from claiming this really obscure board had raided her and left her threatening phone calls helped the game to get past greenlight and onto the Steam store. However it's still free even on Steam.

I don't think this about the money. I've already detailed why I think Chelsea's likely cluster B if not Borderline in previous posts. It's about... attention. Although maybe attention isn't quite the right word. I mean re-read her accusations against Alec Holowka. She was doing it because she felt inspired by Jeremy Soule's accuser apparently. But then she doesn't exactly accuse Alec of rape - she accuses him of fingering her and being generally abusive but then says he's been working on it since and is now fine......? But I digress. I really think that this was done for attention and sympathy and pity. Not money, although that might come along with the sympathy and pity.

Attention is its own currency for some people.

 

[Raven117]

If the truth is enough to set the world aflame, then it deserves to burn.

Eye roll. This story isn’t a big enough deal to do much of anything let alone set the world ablaze. Good quote though

Racist much?

Now you can explain to me how RT is any more untrustworthy as CNN, MSNBC, New York Times, Fox News etc.

The floor is yours, NPC.

Racist? NPC?

I didn’t say in this instance the story they reported is fake. But there is no doubt that Russia and its affiliates want nothing more than to let the west eat itself.

Besides, the major news sites need to report this properly. None of this will matter otherwise.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Also the fact that the media are all running essentially the same story (Alec “Died”) at the same time (or omitting it’s occurrence completely) added to the fact that almost all have shut off comments shows a huge degree of ‘behind the scenes’ communication.

There are no doubt emails and PMs wizzing about as we speak to ensure everyone ‘gets in line’.

It’s exactly what happened when everyone awoke to the same news that ‘Gamers are Dead’.

It’s obviously coordinated.

I'm not saying it's coordindated (hard to say without more info) but even the initial "gaming's #metoo movement" thing with Anita, Zoe, Jeremy Soule's accuser, etc etc seemed pretty coordinated.

 

[Reyben]

No chance. She will keep her head down for a while. Probably focus on her comic books.
I doubt you'll ever see her bumping her gums in public again and I doubt the likes of Kotaku etc will ever have articles about her again.

I'm sorry, but... you must be delusional.
Zoe and her pr department will come out swinging soon and somehow reframe what happened in such a way that she becomes the victim, and she needs our sympathy (and our money).
The media will then quickly side with her.
She'll get another medal out of this, if anything.

 

[Monkeygourmet]

I'm not saying it's coordindated (hard to say without more info) but even the initial "gaming's #metoo movement" thing with Anita, Zoe, Jeremy Soule's accuser, etc etc seemed pretty coordinated.

All the stories are pretty much cut and paste soooooo

 

[mckmas8808]

Hey, mckmas8808 , you're alt-right now!

ROFL

Man........this thread took a sad turn. Dude just killed himself huh?

 

[Monkeygourmet]

All you have to do is type ‘Night in the Woods’ in Google and nearly every outlet has gone with the same tag line -
Dies, Dead etc.

Not one mention of suicide.

And the reason for that is...... drum roll...

Because they contributed to his death.

 

[Tesseract]

this is so fucked up, you gotta draw a line between justice for yourself and others

 

[dark_inferno]

This could be considered murdering a human being.
If somebody has a nut allergy and you give him nuts and he dies... it's considered murder.
So Alec having a mental health problem, Zoe having her cancel culture coming for him knowing full well of his condition just shows she was ought to murder him.
And nobody speaks about it. This is just sad.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Just proves more and more the “games” media are a bunch of propaganda hacks.

 

[Birdo]

All you have to do is type ‘Night in the Woods’ in Google and nearly every outlet has gone with the same tag line -
Dies, Dead etc.

Not one mention of suicide.

The one that says he "Passed away" really rubbed me the wrong way.

 

[the Guynecologist]

.

 

[Fahdis]

Why does this bitch get so many free passes?

 

[Monkeygourmet]

They are churning out these kind of jurno’s now.

Any good boy / girl knows when not to ask questions.

No one dares to question or buck the trend as they know they won’t get work.

It creates a vile poison filled echo chamber.

 

[Arkage]

When Zoe is investigated, yes she will be investigated if she isn't already under investigation, her removal of her twitter account timed with the incident will likely be considered an attempt at destroying/concealing evidence. Without knowing all the facts it's hard to say how this man's family or local authorities will respond, but it's very likely she faces criminal and/or civil action for involuntary manslaughter and wrongful death.

If being tangentially tied to an internet outrage mob can result in a murder charge, there will be all varieties of people going to jail. It would be like charging a bully with manslaughter if a trans kid kills themself from harassment. Ain’t gonna happen, in other words. Those who think charges will be brought are truly delusional about how the justice system works.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

If being tangentially tied to an internet outrage mob can result in a murder charge, there will be all varieties of people going to jail. It would be like charging a bully with manslaughter if a trans kid kills themself from harassment. Ain’t gonna happen, in other words. Those who think charges will be brought are truly delusional about how the justice system works.

"tangentially tied"

Didn't she leap into the center of "gaming's #metoo movement"? There was nothing tangential about Zoe Quinn's involvement.

 

[Arkage]

"tangentially tied"

Didn't she leap into the center of "gaming's #metoo movement"? There was nothing tangential about Zoe Quinn's involvement.

She made claims of harasssment on twitter. Literally all she did. Do you think she’s going to be charged with murder? Are you that stupid? Why am I asking when I can already predict the answer.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

She made claims of harasssment on twitter. Literally all she did. Do you think she’s going to be charged with murder? Are you that stupid? Why am I asking when I can already predict the answer.

I don't think she's going to be charged with murder. Re-read what you quoted, cultist.

 

[Enjay]

lol at whoever brought up the word justice. Zoe Quinn will unfortunately continue to thrive in this industry.

 

[Kadayi]

If being tangentially tied to an internet outrage mob can result in a murder charge, there will be all varieties of people going to jail. It would be like charging a bully with manslaughter if a trans kid kills themself from harassment. Ain’t gonna happen, in other words. Those who think charges will be brought are truly delusional about how the justice system works.

Tangentially tied? She threw a firebomb out into the Twitterverse that ultimately led to a man killing himself when he was ostracized by everyone around him. How is that remotely tangential? Clown world thinking at its finest.

She made claims of harasssment on twitter. Literally all she did. Do you think she’s going to be charged with murder? Are you that stupid? Why am I asking when I can already predict the answer.

It wasn't a harassment claim you utter fuck nugget. She was airing dirty laundry that was as far as the other party was aware was water under the bridge. Also, no-ones expecting her to get booked for murder but at very least (especially given what she herself has gone through) there's a big question mark as to the motive and the perceived outcome.

 

[Monkeygourmet]

Scott Benson (NiTW co-creator) has more words to say about Alec. Make of it what you will. I don't think this has been posted here yet. And here's an archive in case of deletion or re-editing. I don't know about this. I can believe everything he's saying but I kind wish this could've waited a week until maybe, y'know, Alec Holowka actually got buried?

All very nice him offering this up but, Dead Men tell no tales.

Both Zoe and his Sister plus numerous others said ‘he was a different person’ or ‘he was trying to fix himself’.

In what world would going into a therapy session with people who were trying to come to terms with their past and reminding them of those things without warning be helpful?

The reason you don’t do this is because - guess what?! - it pushes people over the f’ing edge!!!!

It’s not rocket science and these people aren’t idiots so they knew what they were doing.

Unless of course, they would care to admit - it doesn’t matter how much you try and fix yourself - you are still guilty and we will come for you.

I mean, if they admitted that, I’d have more respect for them in the sense they would show the true face of their ideology.

 

[GnomeChimpsky]

I have become utterly convinced, that using pronouns like "they, them" to refer to a single entity is, in fact, an abuse (dare I say, even rape?) of the English language. The people who have curated the language over centuries could not have anticipated that, one day, there will be people, who deliberately use parts of the language the wrong way. That must be a nightmare for every linguist: Not people who don't know the language (well enough) but people who do and yet choose to use it the wrong way. Ludwig Wittgenstein would have had a fucking field day with this, lol. That's like doing OpenGL stuff (inherently state based) in a purely functional language like Haskell (yeah, I know you can do that via Monads): You can do it but you will get stares.

So, I have decided to not call one entity with a pluralic pronoun (is that the correct term?) like "they, them, their", because it is semantically and syntactically wrong. If having (internet) people referring to you as "they, them, their" is the only interesting thing going on in your life, then you are even worse off then me, lol.

It's straight up cultural warfare. Orwell found this out the hard way back in the 30's. He used to be all in favour of a universal "correct" language until he realised people are insane and will use it to root out their enemies.

 

[petran79]

If being tangentially tied to an internet outrage mob can result in a murder charge, there will be all varieties of people going to jail. It would be like charging a bully with manslaughter if a trans kid kills themself from harassment. Ain’t gonna happen, in other words. Those who think charges will be brought are truly delusional about how the justice system works.

"Pushing someone to death is not suicide but manslaughter"

Those were the words of a known police constable in my country that specialises in cybercrime and protecting children and teens from harassment, paedophiles, bullying, Internet addiction etc

 

[the Guynecologist]

.

 

[Ogbert]

Scott Benson (NiTW co-creator) has more words to say about Alec. Make of it what you will. I don't think this has been posted here yet. And here's an archive in case of deletion or re-editing. I don't know about this. I can believe everything he's saying but I kind wish this could've waited a week until maybe, y'know, Alec Holowka actually got buried?

A deeply unpleasant read.

Narcissistic and wallowing in self-pity.

 

[the Guynecologist]

.

 

[Monkeygourmet]

It’s insane.

It literally paints him as this nightmarish individual that had control over so many people yet - even after they eventually talked about it together - they couldn’t either tackle him together or go to the authorities?

No. He was that powerful, the only way to bring him to justice was via social media...

IT WAS THE ONLY WAY!!!

“I survived Alec”.... Jesus...

Shameful...

 

[Ogbert]

Zoe and her pr department will come out swinging soon and somehow reframe what happened in such a way that she becomes the victim

I don't actually think that'll happen. She's finished. Utterly toxic.

She has no redeemable talent, or anything to offer.

 

[Acidizer]

It’s been fascinating to see the media coordinate their stories and cover up the fact they are all responsible for this individual taking his own life.

Eurogamer having a very distasteful ‘Suicide Helpline’ number at the bottom of the article that they didn’t even have the balls to title ‘Alec has committed Suicide’ - they simply said he had “died” like all the other usual suspect outlets.

There must be a huge amount of internal squirming and silencing going on - I know that for sure.

Some being told to lay low and stay of social media / twitter until this has ‘blown over’.

Also it’s awful they are clamouring for GG2 - they just needed a catalyst and they created one in the most abhorrent way imaginable.

As always - Follow the Money.

I have a particular distaste for Eurogamer at the moment, they are supposed to be better than this. But they decided they want a piece of the pie too, seeing that SJW bullshit brings in 10x the clicks that normal gaming stuff does.

Comments were open for the 'article' (cope paste job) about the accusation - not even bothering to attempt any journalism to at least support their article. At least it wasn't uniformly people rabid in favour of Zoe Quinn, but a lot of others were - like that perennial bad smell super mod MrTomTFW liking it to the Kevin Spacey, Jimmy Saville (UK paedo) and Bill cosby cases.

They comments were closed for the news of his "death". Maybe could be seen as commendable. Maybe could be seen as self preservation. You expect more from an outlet that has been covering games, mostly exceptionally, for 20 years.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Scott Benson (NiTW co-creator) has more words to say about Alec. Make of it what you will. I don't think this has been posted here yet. And here's an archive in case of deletion or re-editing. I don't know about this. I can believe everything he's saying but I kind wish this could've waited a week until maybe, y'know, Alec Holowka actually got buried?

It sounds like more confirmation that he was an asshole (probably BPD) towards everyone, rather than a rapist or actual sexual assaulter.

Alec Holowka died last week.

Strange how they all have the exact same phrasing.

 

[OutrageousFacts]

So wait.... the moderators at ResetEra are dealing with this by deleting any threads on the subject - essentially pretending it didn’t happen?

How can a gaming forum that prides itself on social justice censor one of the biggest social justice scandals of all time in gaming? That’s Big Brother times ten.

Afaik they only closed the one on the topic, but ofc no user would dare open a new one.

Btw pls let's not call Resetera 'left' in any capacity. The difference between Resetera and reasonable people isn't left vs right, it's authoritarian vs liberal. These crazy people want to dictate everything one can say, watch or play.

They are outraged over a single trans-joke on Twitter. They are are shockingly pro-censorship, going as far as changing the official definition of what censorship is so they get to claim 'nah, that's not censorship, idiot'. And they're pre-emptively outraged over the upcoming Joker movie, because of most ridiculous reasons.

They are authoritarians, and we as liberals should oppose them, no matter if we're left or right. Let people enjoy what they want to enjoy. Live and let live. Not their wannabe-fascism 2.0 that strives to take away all that's not cookie-cutter happy-happy and might offend some. Many of the best games, movies and books are those that are offensive for one or another reason.

Their flavor of fascism killed Alec Holowka, because they don't give 2nd chances and they believe in mob justice. Fuck authoritarians.

 

[Ogbert]

It sounds like more confirmation that he was an asshole (probably BPD) towards everyone, rather than a rapist or actual sexual assaulter.

From the description, he sounds like a paranoid schizophrenic. Genuinely mentally ill.

Just the sort of thing that Twitter deals with well.

 

[the Guynecologist]

.

 

[Durask]

A deeply unpleasant read.

Narcissistic and wallowing in self-pity.

He also hates capitalism - what a surprise.

 

[MagnesG]

Scott Benson (NiTW co-creator) has more words to say about Alec. Make of it what you will. I don't think this has been posted here yet. And here's an archive in case of deletion or re-editing. I don't know about this. I can believe everything he's saying but I kind wish this could've waited a week until maybe, y'know, Alec Holowka actually got buried?

I just read the long post, well what could I say?

He himself had been diagnosed to have mental disorder so take that as a solid measure. But, barring the part of the story's viability, I'm seeing too much of red flags from this (just from the context of these monologues) that I feel any a normal person would've acted already when they're being faced with these kind of situations. He obviously have some issues, and I have sympathies for that.

Zoe is still guilty for triggering this though. She just want to fuck the unstable guy up just for her sick agenda. Also I still don't believe her bullshit, half-truths story. She really needs to be stopped.

On an unrelated side note, having read all of these makes me wonder if people are more prone to having mental issues nowadays? Or at least some kind of erratic behaviors? I feel like I'm seeing too much right now of the ugly world.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Where's "Mr Buy My Book" Jason Schreier in all of this?

A big game related debacle with someone even dying and this so-called video game journalist is nowhere to be seen.

Maybe too busy writing up the 6th article on "Why does Bethesda continue to blacklist Kotaku?"

 

[ROMhack]

Away from the conspiratorial aspect, the whole story really really puts into perspective the topic of mental health.

A lot of people self-identify as having mental health problems these days but there's clearly levels to it in which a person can have more serious mental health issues than another.

Judging by both his actions after the accusation, as well as his previously documented online posts about DBT treatment, Alec Holowka was a genuinely mentally ill person. I feel the normalisation of mental health in media has somewhat taken something away from our understanding about the 'serious' issues that people like Alec had. I sincerely hope people start considering their use of the term in the future, otherwise we need a much better term to describe people in states of advanced vulnerability.

 

[Pejo]

Scott Benson (NiTW co-creator) has more words to say about Alec. Make of it what you will. I don't think this has been posted here yet. And here's an archive in case of deletion or re-editing. I don't know about this. I can believe everything he's saying but I kind wish this could've waited a week until maybe, y'know, Alec Holowka actually got buried?

Thanks for posting this. It definitely sounded like the guy had some issues to work through.

Still I can't help but wonder if right now is the best time to publicly release this type of stuff. At least this one in particular gives due respect and isn't the same kind of bullshit we saw when Totalbiscuit died, but where was this essay while the dude was still alive? Combined with how his sister is acting it's just a little surreal. If everyone knew that Alec had these problems, where was the effort to help, where was the intervention? I dunno, just throwing some of my thoughts out there, suicide is just such a sad thing all around.

 

[EightBit Man]

Fully agree. I've never had Facebook, Twitter or any other social media accounts. And I am glad I never have.

Same here. I look and search on these platforms sometimes, but it's something that should be avoided as much as possible.

You know what really worries me? The direction all this is going. We now have a entire generation of young people, who never got the love and attention they deserved, while spending most of their time on social media. It's absolutely frightening. Human qualities like empathy, introspection, kindness, social cues, trust, skills in communication are already in unprecedented decline since social media became widespread. Everybody is on the edge, and few are able recognize a joke these days. It's turning mankind into a quasi-autistic state of isolation, unhappiness, and coldness.

People don't even want to establish real friendships anymore because you're non-existent on these platforms. Millennials are the loneliest generation. My former best friend (RIP) wanted to meet up with a woman, but that woman didn't want to because he didn't make use of social media, and claimed that he probably had "other intentions". My mom lost a friendship because she doesn't use social media...etc.

In the end, we all would be better off without social media.

 

[Ogbert]

Where's "Mr Buy My Book" Jason Schreier in all of this?

Probably injecting soy into his urethra.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

It can be argued social media is worse than booze or drugs.

At least those things u can only do at home, it costs money and they dont talk back.

How is any mentally messed up person going to contend with a platforms that are free, can be done on multiple devices 24/7 anywhere and people egg you on?

And hell, social media can even be revenue driver with ad clicks, so for some they have to churn out content to keep the click coming.

A case of beer just sits there..

 

[Kamina]

Imagine if it was the other way around and someone had accused Zoe of something then people had harassed her into suicide. They would definitely blame the accuser first of all, along with all the harassers.
But if its them who cause it then its all just an unfortunate incident and the real victim is actually the accuser.

 

[Monkeygourmet]

It’s all very double / speak.

“Please, Men, talk up about mental health issues and please seek help...”

>You can never hope to get better as passed indiscretions will be brought up at the drop of a hat when someone needs attention.

 

[Ogbert]

We now have a entire generation of young people, who never got the love and attention they deserved, while spending most of their time on social media. It's absolutely frightening. Human qualities like empathy, introspection, kindness, social cues, trust, skills in communication are already in unprecedented decline since social media became widespread.

At the risk of sounding like some bible bashing loony, I personally believe that social media is a symptom rather than a cause.

The vacuum that has appeared in many Western countries represents the total absence of not just religion, but *cultural* religion - so, for example, in the UK, the basic guiding principles of Anglicanism. I am in no way shape or form a religious man, and its flaws are obviously legion, but if there's one single thing that Christianity beautifully enshrines is forgiveness. And it there any greater epithet than 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'.

So yes, you're right. We've turned into heathen barbarians. And Twitter is the perfect distillation of it.

 

[TheWanderingOgre]

Pretty much everyone involved in this story seems a messy person if not a downright bad/toxic person.

How can people, even when they have the power of numbers, not make a stand against only one?

How does everyone, specially when everyone is a lot of people that know each other, let things grow into this crazy, tragic affair.

Who was this Alec to have this much power?
Join forces and tell him to piss off?
Distance yourself from him? Cut him out of your life?
Go to the police?

How so many did not do any of that but could instead do things/let things happen that led to this?

It baffles me, really.

Makes no sense and reeks of toxicity from everywhere you look.

I dont even think there are charges that can/should be made against anyone here. Thats not my point.

People must always have the freedom to talk publicly about anything even more so if they were victims of something.
The same way, you cant make anyone responsible for your acts besides yourself if you are an adult.

We need freedom. Always.
We need empowered victims, not fearful silent ones.
We need decent, rational people not torch&pitchfork mobs.
We need strong, healthy adults not persons that kill themselves out of peer pressure and online harrassment.

I dont see a legal case here. But I see a strong ethical case.

It is really grotesque the way the gaming 'media' is covering the whole affair. Hard to believe they are not pushing an agenda here. When almost everyone is making sure they dont use the word suicide when that is what we are talking about...
Alec even seems to have been far from a good person, so why are they threading so lightly?
Screams of guilty consciousness to me, and fear legal action will be raised against them.

In my country, there would be no crime here but the thing would still be deeply investigated. I hope the investigation is a given there too.

Let this become a bastion against online mobs and this apparently corrupt, rotten part of the gaming scene.
I think that is the only remotely positive thing we can hope to make out of this whole affair.

The only online 'mobs' we need are the ones that hear victims and help them in their moment of need and suffering to go to the police and the ones that 'harrass' the proper authorities to conduct a serious investigation, to better the judicial system and to grant a fair trial to both sides.

 

[GreyHorace]

Scott Benson (NiTW co-creator) has more words to say about Alec. Make of it what you will. I don't think this has been posted here yet. And here's an archive in case of deletion or re-editing. I don't know about this. I can believe everything he's saying but I kind wish this could've waited a week until maybe, y'know, Alec Holowka actually got buried?

Wow. What a brave and tearful confessional about, how bad a suicide victim treated me.

Is this asshole for real? It hasn't been a week since Alec Holowka died and all he's sharing here is what an asshole the guy was. Rather than remembering the deceased he's slandering him in an effort to gain a pity party.

Fuck this guy. That is not how you give a due to the dead.

 

[Monkeygourmet]

So what’s happening with the Elder Scrolls soundtrack dude?

Are they going to press charges?

Any more naming and shaming in the pipeline?