Kittehkraken
Member
Its painfully obvious the industry is trying to ignore the fact that its #metoo moment backfired right out of the gate. The trail of scrubbing evidence/involvement has been documented.
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Zoe Quinn #meToo / Alec Holowka suicide -- Update: Article questions ZQ's account of events (link in OP)
- Status
Its painfully obvious the industry is trying to ignore the fact that its #metoo moment backfired right out of the gate. The trail of scrubbing evidence/involvement has been documented.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
I've been wondering about those other guys on that games industry "Cancel Culture hit list"...
Part of me is concerned for these guys. Nothing has changed with this witch hunt, just gone radio silent for now. Surely the purge is raging on behind the scenes. I do not believe in skirting due process, presumption of innocence, and right to defend oneself in this manner. With the measure you judge others, you will be judged yourself, Ryan Soapbox O'Donnell.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
I can agree to this - I've seen it come up a few times and each time it seems to fit more.
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
Just be careful, the term has been around for a bit and you may be inadvertently "normalizing" and "providing a platform for" some hidden, secret, neo-Nazi dogwhistle term.
Phunkydiabetic
Banned
"Men: it's our job to hold them accountable"
What the hell does this even mean. It isn't my job to do shit, fuck outta here with that. There are proper avenues to go down if you demand justice. It certainly shouldn't be coming from some internet mob and definitely not from this jamoke.
nkarafo
Member
We could call them Social Saboteurs instead. This way they would also be "SS". Which is fitting for the nazis they are.
OutrageousFacts
Banned
This makes me so angry (the tweet). He actively advocates for mob justice.
It's the police' job and their's only. If they found your abuser not guilty, it's probably because you waited to long for any meaningful evidence to be found.
You want your abuser punished? Go to the authorities ASAP.
Ogbert
Member
I actually have no issue with the bog standard lefty wet blanket. They’re not very good with women, they like to be told what to do, they’re insecure and lack confidence, so it’s no surprise they end up as slightly embarrassing soy boys. Let them do their thing.
However, I cannot FUCKING stand the cynical white knights like that Ryan cunt. I say this sincerely, he deserves a fucking beating for sending out something like that. Leave the ladies out of it. We’re men. No one’s buying his shit. We know it’s an act.
If he did that to someone I knew and I saw him in a bar, I’d take a swing. Boo fucking hoo if that’s a bad thing.
EightBit Man
Member
That guy didn't even show a bit of remorse. In fact he apparently retweeted something about gamergate yesterday. It's as if people like him just have their fingers in their ears and refuse to take them out.
How many more victims have to go down, Ryan?
Doomtrain
Gold Member
That guy didn't even show a bit of remorse. In fact he apparently retweeted something about gamergate yesterday. It's as if people like him just have their fingers in their ears and refuse to take them out.
How many more victims have to go down, Ryan?
This logic is so disingenuous. Fear of what? Being ridiculed on Twitter? SOMEBODY DIED. Actual, REAL-LIFE damage has been done before, and their biggest concern is that people might disagree with them on social media?
Monkeygourmet
Banned
One of the most hilarious and yet sadly cringeworthy things about all this is that these individuals literally don’t know what they want to achieve out of this...
Ok. So you out on social media.
That doesn’t stop the supposed abuse that has occurred.
They don’t want to go to the police because that apparently doesn’t work.
They have no issue with waiting numerous years with the potential re-offending could have happened in that timeframe.
They need to openly come out and say the facts, which are:
We want to hound these people till they lose everything and get blackballed yet at the same time seem to be not actually concerned enough to go to the actual authorities.
They actually are sticking a massive middle finger up to people who have actually been abused and are trying to deal with it in an appropriate manner.
They are saying it’s hurt them emotionally and physically but basically they are saying they wish to do the exact same back to that individual outside of the legal system...
So by that logic we can all go around doing whatever we want to people if we feel we have been wronged?
Genius...
*Slow clap...*
Ok. So you out on social media.
That doesn’t stop the supposed abuse that has occurred.
They don’t want to go to the police because that apparently doesn’t work.
They have no issue with waiting numerous years with the potential re-offending could have happened in that timeframe.
They need to openly come out and say the facts, which are:
We want to hound these people till they lose everything and get blackballed yet at the same time seem to be not actually concerned enough to go to the actual authorities.
They actually are sticking a massive middle finger up to people who have actually been abused and are trying to deal with it in an appropriate manner.
They are saying it’s hurt them emotionally and physically but basically they are saying they wish to do the exact same back to that individual outside of the legal system...
So by that logic we can all go around doing whatever we want to people if we feel we have been wronged?
Genius...
*Slow clap...*
The Bloody-Nine
Member
It means he's desperate to get laid.
EightBit Man
Member
Doesn't seem to matter very much apparently. It's more important to chase after ghosts, and to remain in fantasy land. I don't think these people will ever be capable of leaving that trance they are in, until it hits close to home and snaps them back to reality. I think a lot of it is also self-induced. There is such a phenomenon as self-hypnosis, and I believe it partly explains what we see happening with these people.
Godzilla Emu
Banned
That guy didn't even show a bit of remorse. In fact he apparently retweeted something about gamergate yesterday. It's as if people like him just have their fingers in their ears and refuse to take them out.
How many more victims have to go down, Ryan?
Woah, woah. Wait a second. Hold up. Stop the train... Time out. Is that Ryan from 1UP? The legend who used to produce the amazing 1UP Show from the mid 2000s? And he is retweeting that?
. Uh...That dude used to be cool. What do they put in the water in California to turn men into unhinged women?
Eotheod
Member
Unborn foetuses.
Guiberu
Member
nush
Member
Woah, woah. Wait a second. Hold up. Stop the train... Time out. Is that Ryan from 1UP? The legend who used to produce the amazing 1UP Show from the mid 2000s? And he is retweeting that?
Sorry to break it to you, but yes it's him, helpfully putting out the twitter handles of the accused to assist the mob. The cunt, and I said this BEFORE the suicide.
Halo is Back
Member
Hey guys. So in light of new details regarding Alec's mental state, I though I will follow up and give my thoughts as a person who is passionate about mental health and hopes to become a professional in the field one day. I hope you guys find it informative.
Ok, to start off I want to touch on the post that Alec shared in 2016 (sorry don't remember what page it was posted on) on his mental health and his treatment. Alec clearly states that he was receiving therapy through DBT. This stands for Dialectic Behavior Therapy. This type of therapy is most commonly used for Borderline Personality Disorder but can be useful in other disorders such as depression. Now, to go back what his sister said that Alec was suffering from "mood and personality disorders" . To give some context on BPD the main hallmark of the disorder is an inability to effectively control emotions and thoughts. These people have an extreme case of effectively regulating their emotions to the point where they can feel fear, paranoia, depression, happiness and so on, ALL within ONE day.
Think of it as Bipolar Disorder except it happens daily (or even hourly in more extreme cases) . I theorize that Alec had BPD. I say this because of the DBT treatment he was going through and the statements his sister, Zoe, and co-workers describe his behavior as erratic, crazy and controlling. Zoe also mentioned that he threatened suicide when they broke up. People with BPD have higher chance of suicide and suicide attempts. These people also really fear abandonment so that would help explain his behavior when they broke up. Not to mention people with BPD have trouble maintaining long term relationships. DBT has strong empirical support for effectively treating patients with BPD, so that also goes along with Alec making a good recovery after years of treatment.
To me, it all starts to make more sense, so here goes my theory. Alec had BPD, and most likely other mental disorders. Alec has a hard time maintaining relationships and expressing his feeling in healthy ways. Zoe meets Alec in 2012 and they hit it off. Soon she discovers he is controlling and the relationship turns toxic. She leaves the relationship for her own mental health. (TBh with you guys being in a relationship with someone with BPD really sucks so I cant blame her here). Later on, Alec seeks out professional mental help and makes good progress years later and both family and co-workers see a new more happy side of Alec according to their statements. Then, Zoe releasee personal details about their relationship on Twitter and how toxic it was. Alec is put in a bad spot and didn't have the strength or support to pull through and committed suicide.
I am not the one to advocate that mental disorders is an excuse to treat people horribly but these are damaged people who are made by their environment and family they grew up with. These people deserve help to get better and not shamed for the whole world to see. Alec never had a chance sadly.
Ok, to start off I want to touch on the post that Alec shared in 2016 (sorry don't remember what page it was posted on) on his mental health and his treatment. Alec clearly states that he was receiving therapy through DBT. This stands for Dialectic Behavior Therapy. This type of therapy is most commonly used for Borderline Personality Disorder but can be useful in other disorders such as depression. Now, to go back what his sister said that Alec was suffering from "mood and personality disorders" . To give some context on BPD the main hallmark of the disorder is an inability to effectively control emotions and thoughts. These people have an extreme case of effectively regulating their emotions to the point where they can feel fear, paranoia, depression, happiness and so on, ALL within ONE day.
Think of it as Bipolar Disorder except it happens daily (or even hourly in more extreme cases) . I theorize that Alec had BPD. I say this because of the DBT treatment he was going through and the statements his sister, Zoe, and co-workers describe his behavior as erratic, crazy and controlling. Zoe also mentioned that he threatened suicide when they broke up. People with BPD have higher chance of suicide and suicide attempts. These people also really fear abandonment so that would help explain his behavior when they broke up. Not to mention people with BPD have trouble maintaining long term relationships. DBT has strong empirical support for effectively treating patients with BPD, so that also goes along with Alec making a good recovery after years of treatment.
To me, it all starts to make more sense, so here goes my theory. Alec had BPD, and most likely other mental disorders. Alec has a hard time maintaining relationships and expressing his feeling in healthy ways. Zoe meets Alec in 2012 and they hit it off. Soon she discovers he is controlling and the relationship turns toxic. She leaves the relationship for her own mental health. (TBh with you guys being in a relationship with someone with BPD really sucks so I cant blame her here). Later on, Alec seeks out professional mental help and makes good progress years later and both family and co-workers see a new more happy side of Alec according to their statements. Then, Zoe releasee personal details about their relationship on Twitter and how toxic it was. Alec is put in a bad spot and didn't have the strength or support to pull through and committed suicide.
I am not the one to advocate that mental disorders is an excuse to treat people horribly but these are damaged people who are made by their environment and family they grew up with. These people deserve help to get better and not shamed for the whole world to see. Alec never had a chance sadly.
TheWanderingOgre
Member
Vigilancy and revenge seem the rule of the day instead of law and justice.
TheWanderingOgre
Member
Has anyone asked this type of person what would they do and expect of society if they are accused of whatever?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Evil, talentless hack. Trying to knock someone down to get ahead themselves.
Disgusting.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
"climbing the indie gaming scene"
Said no parent, teacher or guidance counselor ever when it comes to career talk.
nush
Member
That guy didn't even show a bit of remorse. In fact he apparently retweeted something about gamergate yesterday. It's as if people like him just have their fingers in their ears and refuse to take them out.
How many more victims have to go down, Ryan?
You've got to click through to the main Twitter profiles instead of just reacting to the tweet. In classic projection/deflection "These people have something to hide" Both her and her husband work for.. Riot Games!
That Riot Games
Riot Games settles lawsuit for sexual harassment, discrimination
The company is looking to move forward after a turbulent year. - September 1, 2019 - WIN.gg
win.gg
Inside The Culture Of Sexism At Riot Games
Throughout her three years at Riot Games, the company behind League of Legends, Lacy made it her mission to hire a woman into a leadership role. Lacy had heard plenty of excuses for why her female job candidates weren’t Riot material. Some were “ladder climbers.” Others had “too much ego.” Most...
kotaku.com
infinitys_7th
Member
Well, that sort of destroys her whole spiel about how "scared" and "helpless" she was during and after their interactions.
off duty ninja
Member
I've been avoiding this thread because it is a pretty sensitive subject for me and hits pretty close to home. I just can't stand seeing someone's mental illness and suicide being co-opted by the very people that pushed him to it. Sure, at the end of the day he made a choice but for all these people to now try to spin this as just one last lashing out from a serial abuser... it just makes me sick.
This highlights the pain that so many men feel. We're fucking invisible. We're just supposed to suck it up and push on.
I deactivated my twitter this morning, not that anybody cares enough about me to #metoo me or anything but I can't continue to support the platform that is allowing this shit to occur.
I decided to see if Anita or anybody else has any self awareness but it seems they're all on something about stopping GG 2.0. I saw them talking about this in the Night in the Woods reddit and that was one of the top comments:
You mean to tell me some vengeful bitch tried to start a #metoopointO by calling out her mentally ill ex and... Oops, the mentally ill ex killed himself?!
Now you have the fucking nerve to call for de-escalation and sensitivity?! We wouldn't want any of the "survivors" of this terrible experience to feel bad or anything.
This highlights the pain that so many men feel. We're fucking invisible. We're just supposed to suck it up and push on.
I deactivated my twitter this morning, not that anybody cares enough about me to #metoo me or anything but I can't continue to support the platform that is allowing this shit to occur.
I decided to see if Anita or anybody else has any self awareness but it seems they're all on something about stopping GG 2.0. I saw them talking about this in the Night in the Woods reddit and that was one of the top comments:
You mean to tell me some vengeful bitch tried to start a #metoopointO by calling out her mentally ill ex and... Oops, the mentally ill ex killed himself?!
Now you have the fucking nerve to call for de-escalation and sensitivity?! We wouldn't want any of the "survivors" of this terrible experience to feel bad or anything.
EightBit Man
Member
So skeletons in their closet? Not surprised.
infinitys_7th
Member
I think this is a fundamental flaw with a lot of people's reaction to these things. People like you being on those platforms dilutes these mobs to an extent. You commenting can disrupt their flow and can even let you turn their nonsense against them to diminish their influence.
Giving up just gives them more power and control.
zeioIIDX
Member
This is why I'm never for airing your fucking issues out on social media like this. That's fucking irresponsible. You don't know HOW a person is going to handle being put on blast for something they've done. Very fucked up situation. Go to the proper authorities and send that shit through the proper channels, don't just go stand in front of thousands of people online and make allegations, that's serious stuff and, in my opinion, needs to be handled properly. Fucking hell...
KiNeMz
Banned
I bought it when it first came out. Didnt click with me. Wonder if I can get a refund on the game and just keep the music.
Godzilla Emu
Banned
Gutted. That's made an incredibly sad situation even sadder, for me.
This was the soundtrack to my early 20s:
The 1UP crew (along with Garnett Lee's podcast with Shane & Luke Smith (now with Bungie...? and co)) got me through some hard times while I was forced into a senior software development position, which put me under an extreme amount of stress at the time.
It's sad to know that Ryan is insecure about his manhood fifteen years later; he was a supremely talented dude.
Edit: LOL. Patrick Klepek makes a cameo in that video. I guess that says everything. Perhaps, it was a good thing that 1UP died while it was still great.
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off duty ninja
Member
I just used it as a news feed anyways. I stopped participating "socially" long ago. No reason to let them count me as a user anymore. I can get my news elsewhere.
Monkeygourmet
Banned
Unfortunately this cult doesn’t care and throws their own to the wolves when it deems fit.
Most have skeletons in their closet and seem to operate on allowing people to express these feelings / history then using it against them when they become of no use.
It’s disgusting.
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KiNeMz
Banned
I wonder if the rights or proceeds for the music go to Alec or his family. Is the soundtrack avaialble to purchase? It would be amazing if Alec had the last laugh in terms of purchases.
Monkeygourmet
Banned
It’s also ironic that depression and the admission of it and seeking help is highly advocated from these assholes.
Yet, this is a trap.
If you don’t fit the criteria or they wish to crucify you publicly because of agenda - it will be used against you.
This is not only extremely unhealthy but a sick approach to dealing with mental health issues.
Yet, this is a trap.
If you don’t fit the criteria or they wish to crucify you publicly because of agenda - it will be used against you.
This is not only extremely unhealthy but a sick approach to dealing with mental health issues.
nush
Member
DryPancakes
Banned
Agree, that is a remnant of their weak mindset, namig a "problematic" place is too triggering, there's no enforced victimhood here.
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EightBit Man
Member
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
If you have the stomach for it (more on that later) Scott Benson, Holowka's former collaborator on NITW has penned an excruciatingly lengthy piece on Medium, link is here if you are interested in the gory details what a "monster" he was....
I must admit to nearly bursting a bloodvessel reading it, so I really ought to go back and check I'm not missing anything before I give a really considered opinion.
Gut reaction though is that Benson is a pretty despicable, pathetic, character. That's what stands out to me after reading, not Holowka's many failings.
The gist of it is him describing a 6 year relationship with Holowka over which: "He was, depending on when you asked, my friend, my collaborator, a nightmare, the origin of my PTSD, and the reason I was in therapy. Sometimes all of those at the same time."
I'm not going to recount more than that in terms of specifics, because the important stuff lies in what Benson doesn't say, do, or did. I'm just going to bullet-point it out, or I'll be hear all night.
* Most notably at no point does he take any responsibility for his own conduct, or the implicit bias of having his wife involved in the mix.
* In fact if you actually read carefully, he's not present to witness much in the way of misbehavior, because Holowka is in Montreal whereas Benson and his wife are in Pittsburgh.
* Despite by his own admission having minimal skills and experience going into game-dev, he talks about the project as if he's painting the sistine chapel. The stench of self-importance is absolutely choking especially if you've ever worked on a game. He talks as if he's trapped together with Holowka, when the obvious reality is that at any point he could simply minimize his involvement or simply step-away.
* The reason I suspect he didn't is simply down to the fact that (1) he lacked the skills to do anything else, (2) and was relying on Holowka to do the actual work of making the game. Of course this is twisted in his narrative to Holowka entrapping and exploiting him.
* It doesn't help when Benson frequently makes passive-aggressive comments about Holowka being wealthy, it reeks of envy.
* Let me stress this again: this guy is blaming a man who lives in another fucking country for giving him PTSD.
"I began going to therapy weekly. I got on anxiety meds. The therapist was shocked at how much responsibility for Alec’s moods and actions I’d taken. He hammered home over and over how I’m not responsible for what Alec did. I knew that. I did. But I still feel that I am responsible for all of what Alec did, I feel it somewhere, quietly, even now, as I write this. It’s absurd. That’s one of the things abuse does to you. "
What. The. Fuck?
Hey Scott, here's a thought, what's really absurd is that you still aren't taking responsibity for your actions. You are still displacing it all onto a dead man.
This by the way is just referencing the first third of this narcissistic epic. And I'm done. Its just unbearable.
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Doomtrain
Gold Member
So, someone died in part because of Scott's actions, and Scott's response is to write multiple statements attacking the deceased.
On a similar note, I've been disappointed to watch people like Derek Yu throw Holowka under the bus over the past few days as well. Yu has made some of my favorite games, and finding out what kind of person he is is heartbreaking.
On a similar note, I've been disappointed to watch people like Derek Yu throw Holowka under the bus over the past few days as well. Yu has made some of my favorite games, and finding out what kind of person he is is heartbreaking.
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GreyHorace
Member
I'll ask again for posterity's sake, do all these soyboys shop at the same store?
Kenpachii
Member
Hows this shit even legal, he basically is asking them to be harassed and attacked.
Halo is Back
Member
Thanks but I won’t read that garbage. It is extremely cowardice and disgusting to post an expose article just shortly after the man died. I can’t take anyone seriously who dose that.
I will stand by my statement that Alec among other BPD patients don’t deserve to have their personal lives to be displayed for the world. They deserve treatment and the chance to be better people. The great thing is that there is hope for recovery with this disorder.
OutrageousFacts
Banned
They're men.
You have 2 options:
1.) Don't defend them. Watch as their lives are ruined.
2.) Criticize what happens to them and be called alt-right/MRA.
Authoritarians have created an atmosphere in which male victims of the 'Court of Public Opinion' can't win. It's shockingly similar to witch trials during the middle ages: women accused of being witches were drowend in rivers/lakes. If they survived, it was proof that they're truly witches. If they died, they're proven innocent. Basically a lose-lose scenario.
If #metoo won't put an effort into helping victims of abuse come forward WITHOUT creating new victims due to the CoPO, they have failed as a positive movement. Men aren't as worthless as media and public discourse leads one to believe - but only typing that has many on the Authoritarian side of things call me alt-right/MRA. Fuck you.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
They don't go to the same store.
I'll ask again for posterity's sake, do all these soyboys shop at the same store?
They all sleep over in each other's beds and share the same clothes.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Honestly, I do recommend you read it.
For me it was an eye-opener that anyone would be so delusional to think that this in any would justify their actions and attitudes.
Its baffling, its so transparent, especially to anyone inside the business.
By way of example, check this out:
"Alec had prestige and money. He had what seemed to be a ticket to making your game dev dreams come true. He had a long pattern of picking someone he was really interested in, immediately suggesting they make a game together, making them dependent on him, and then later abandoning it and them, often in really shitty and harmful ways to add insult to injury. "
I mean honestly, are we supposed to accept he (Holowka) was gaming's Willy Wonka? And Scott is poor downtrodden Charlie Bucket?
What sort of pathetic, spineless, loser mentality is this?
It’s the mentality of a male intersectionalist. It’s easier to be a victim of various hierarchical structures than to be strong and independent.
- Status