Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
- Start date
More of an issue with Filters not applied uniformly (on Plasmas and passive LCD's) and the race to the bottom in the LCD sector. Price is mainly the factor here. Cheaper components are used, they cut costs at the manufacturing stage and at the assembly line.
Because people want cheap TV's.
Selling premium TV's at not so premium prices is the ideal for the consumer. But look how that turned out for Panasonic.
Everyone in this industry is bleeding money right now. Even Samsung.
And it looks like it will happen with OLED as well. LG is burning money left and right on it (it's like they don't even care) and slashed the OLED price 3000$ since the reveal. They are the only company at the moment that really banks on this technology. I pray to god it pays off.
If OLED doesn't take off in the next 2 years and I really mean takes off to the point where it dominates LCD's in sales and there is money to be made on these things, Panasonic and Sony will exit the TV business.
Samsung meanwhile puts all of their hope in edge lit UHD TV's but even that market will be hard to enter for the Koreans because the motherfucking Chinese already got a major head start and sold 3 million of their cheap TV's last year.
The future will be very interesting. Who knows maybe we will all by Hinsense, Huawei and Haier TV's in the near future.
Me? I'm good for the next 4 years with my 65VT60. I will take a wait and see approach. One thing is for sure. I saw a Samsung KE55S9C OLED at the store in a dark room. That thing beats the shit out of my plasma, is brighter and consumes less energy. Once they built a 75-85" for 5000€ I'm so in.
Anybody know where I can find the ST60 in a 60 inch? I tried to wait it out until my old TV started wearing out more, but it looks like they're hard to come by now and they're are yellow splotches and blue dots all over the screen on my old set. :-( I have come across the 55 and that's what size I have now, but think I should go up to 60 if I can since I'm going from a big ole rear projection to something taking much smaller space.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Way too early to decide at this point. We barely have any official prices for the new models. One to watch as far as price/performance would be Vizio though:
Cheers mate, but Vizio's aren't available in the UK as far as I am aware.
Vizio are US only.
polyh3dron
Banned
You can still get the VT60 and ZT60 at valueelectronics.com
I just got a 65VT60 from there a couple weeks ago. But hurry up because they'll be gone soon.
polyh3dron
Banned
Netflix SuperHD is probably better than your HD Cable, and Blu-ray is by far the best HD picture you will find. It's all about bitrates. A Panny plasma just makes you see the difference more than you would on your average TV.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Isn't the Korean Government support LG and Samsung with crazy amount of money every year?
Gonna call them up. How was the pricing?
polyh3dron
Banned
Not exactly cheap, but if you're outside of NY there's no sales tax and the white glove shipping is included so it turns out to be a good deal.
mitchman
Gold Member
The Samsung F9005 is reasonable priced and has an upgrade path for the future. I went for the 65" model 2 weeks ago, very happy with it.
Thanks, will look into it. Where did you purchase yours' from?
Unknown Soldier
Member
They do but Samsung makes record profits every year and they would even without Korean government handouts.
Rex_Harrison
Banned
Just curious if you'd actually buy the Evolution kit ? Because it's essentially a built in Google Chromecast @ 10x the price.
All it does is update the user interface ie menu screens, and make apps run faster. Chromecast only cost $30-$40. Samsung Evo kit like $300-$400.
I don't see the point of it. I really don't see the point of Smart TV's either, especially with things like Chromecast on the market. My PS3 has been able to do everything my "Smart TV" can for years now.
No offense but, it seems to me that the Evo kits were designed to target the " I have lots of disposable income and very little knowledge of electronics" crowd. Just like those $300 6ft HDMI cords.
Umm that Evo kit is mainly for HDMI 2.0. That is a pretty good reason.
mitchman
Gold Member
Elkjøp, Norway on sale.
mitchman
Gold Member
There's also h.265 and VP9 support, needed for 4k Netflix and 4k Youtube. HDMI 2.0 is obviously nice too, so yeah, I'll get it immediately when it arrives.
lostsupper
Banned
You've been spending too much time in places like this. For games, you can't do better than the W900.
You've spent so much time on blurry LCD's you can't see clearly. VT60 spanks the W900 for games because input lag is low AND it looks absolutely gob-smackingly beautiful.
Plasma for life, yo. And then onto OLED.
Rex_Harrison
Banned
So Sony can get HDMI 2.0 on their 4K sets with a free firmware update but Samsung requires you to buy a $400 Evo Kit ?
What am I missing here ?
PoweredBySoy
Banned
Since making that post I've come to my senses. I think I was probably just drunk or something.
Wanting the Samsung F8500 now. And wondering if it really is worth double the price of their F5500.
Nothing. That's exactly what is happening from what I understand.
Samsung gonna Samsung
In other news Killzone PS4 looks jaw dropping on my w900. Plays like butter too. Dat lack if lag!
AlimNassor
Banned
No it doesn't. Please provide proof. Because VT60 does not have low input lag. Then again it's hard to tell considering how smug and elite Plasma owners are.
Haint
Member
Black level isn't a concern, your S1 is shit as it's an '09 in the epicenter of Panasonic's Rising Blacks Fiasco. The W900 should be at least 2x darker in that regard. I can't speak for your other concerns though.
Mattlikewhoa
Member
While shopping (and looking at the current 4K offerings) I was offered that upgrade kit for free if I bought the current model.
That being said, I have a history with this store (and the sales associate).
FairXchange
Member
Why you knockin' plasma owners for? We're just all really excited we have the best picture quality for the best price, is all.
I'm just joshing you, but in all seriousness, my Panasonic S60 is downright gorgeous in my viewing environment, and it enhances my experience with my PS4/Xbox One and Blu-ray watching. All for just over $750 at the time of purchase. You simply can't get this level of image quality for the price. Plasmas have a vocal fan base for very good reason, I can only imagine how good the VT and ZT panels look in people's living rooms.
Rex_Harrison
Banned
For a gaming TV the W900a wins hands down. The importance of input lag is completely over exaggerated IMO. Sure 80ms+ would suck but 50ms and under is hardly noticeable to me, and I tried a pretty wide range of sets last year, ranging from 16ms to 50ms. My VT60 has about 45ms of input lag, compared to the W900's 16ms, it has about 3X more lag. That sounds terrible right ? Well it's not, I've been doing as well if not better in BF4 than I was when I had a W800a for a week.
I say the W9 is better for gaming mainly for the fact that you don't have to worry about IR or burn in, so you could game for 12 hours straight ( not that I do, just saying ) with big bright HUDs and not even think twice about it. Also, you're not sacrificing that much PQ. The VT60 and ZT60 are capable of producing very accurate and realistic looking colors and images. That doesn't mean shit when you're gaming because there really isn't a color standard that game developers follow. The ultra low input lag is just icing on the cake.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
I searched around & found some numbers & Panasonic 2009 models weren't all that great.
They had about the same black levels as a Samsung & Sony LCD around the same year.
I still think the only new plasmas worth buying are the Pioneer Elites & the Panasonic VT/ZT line.
Those two lines of TV took a pretty large leap in PQ from every other plasma ever made.
Outside those two, people way overestimate regular plasma over quality LCDs.
mitchman
Gold Member
LG and Sony has a HDMI chip that can be clocked higher thru a firmware upgrade. HDMI 1.4 vs 2.0 are signal identical, just clocked differently.
What the firmware won't fix on the Sony sets is h265 and VP9 support which is very likely going to require a hardware upgrade.
PoweredBySoy
Banned
I do do a lot of gaming, but then I also watch a lot of blu-ray as well, so I kind of need the best of both - or at least a really good compromise. My main concern with LCD are edge light-bleed and cloudiness. I don't think I could ever un-see those things while watching a movie. Viewing angle is also somewhat important as well, as sometimes I like to lay on the floor.
I still think plasma can probably offer the best pq, especially given my environment (and it's fun to play the plasma bro-card at times), but I am sort of interested in checking out an LCD.
I'm really not at all concerned about burn-in. IR is sometimes distracting, but I don't think I could ever damage the tv. One time my wife left the Netflix page up overnight, and to my surprise there was only some minor IR as a result. Sometimes game HUD's get a little worked in, but after a couple hours of different content it's gone.
PoweredBySoy
Banned
Yeah. =( At the time it was their new NEO pdp and I bought the hype.
A regional chain in my area (American TV) is going out of business, starting tomorrow. I'm going to head in first thing in the morning and see about replacing my current TV (Toshiba 46XV645U) with a 55-60 inch for under $1,000.
I don't have any real complaints with the quality of the TV I have, so I'm not worried about getting a top of the line set. Also, I don't care about 'smart' features, 3D, etc., I just want something to play games and watch movies on.
I'm guessing Plasma would be my best bet, based on what I've read, but does anyone have additional advice on what sort of specs I should be paying extra attention to?
Thanks for any help!
I don't have any real complaints with the quality of the TV I have, so I'm not worried about getting a top of the line set. Also, I don't care about 'smart' features, 3D, etc., I just want something to play games and watch movies on.
I'm guessing Plasma would be my best bet, based on what I've read, but does anyone have additional advice on what sort of specs I should be paying extra attention to?
Thanks for any help!
mitchman
Gold Member
They are, sort of, but the low yield on the panels during production has caused the manufacturers to seek a stop gap technology in the mean time. OLED might still be 3-5 years away from being mainstream due to these problems.
I have the LG 7600 and its fantastic, according to the display lag website it says its 35ms, however its been testing by many on the avforums to actually be 16ms with PC input is labeled, then game mode selected (while using the HDMI PC port)
I notice no delay at all (and you wouldnt with 16ms), only issue I have and its minor is that of all LED tvs, trying to balance the backlight to achieve a bright enough screen and dark enough blacks, vibrancy is awesome and I have a good backlight balance.
Although even though the TV is only a year old, Im still intrigued what my next upgrade would be worthwhile? It likely needs to be 4k? - Have little to no input lag, no ghosting, and vibrant quality colours and awesome blacks WITHOUT backlight (my tv has LED local dimming but its a NO for gaming)
With all that said, am I looking at an OLED 4k low lag input TV somewhere in the near future?
I notice no delay at all (and you wouldnt with 16ms), only issue I have and its minor is that of all LED tvs, trying to balance the backlight to achieve a bright enough screen and dark enough blacks, vibrancy is awesome and I have a good backlight balance.
Although even though the TV is only a year old, Im still intrigued what my next upgrade would be worthwhile? It likely needs to be 4k? - Have little to no input lag, no ghosting, and vibrant quality colours and awesome blacks WITHOUT backlight (my tv has LED local dimming but its a NO for gaming)
With all that said, am I looking at an OLED 4k low lag input TV somewhere in the near future?
thebigkahuna
Member
If you have a comfortable income than absolutely it is worth it. I have been hearing talk that the F8500 will soon come down in price sometime in March. Samsung has their annoying UPP (unilateral pricing policy) still in effect but once they drop their policy the prices should dip considerably.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
I couldn't get an answer in the computer thead, but does anyone know why my PC looks washed out on my BenQ projector? The Ps4 and xbone look fine - everything looks washed out when I use my PC though 
IblisGinjo
Member
I couldn't get an answer in the computer thead, but does anyone know why my PC looks washed out on my BenQ projector? The Ps4 and xbone look fine - everything looks washed out when I use my PC though
What's the model of the BenQ projector & what video card are you using? I think someone mention the same thing on a website when I was researching projectors about an AMD card doing that but I'm not sure.
I couldn't get an answer in the computer thead, but does anyone know why my PC looks washed out on my BenQ projector? The Ps4 and xbone look fine - everything looks washed out when I use my PC though
Sounds like maybe your projector is expecting full range RGB, but your PC is only sending limited. When this happens, dark colors end up looking gray, and I've run into this problem on several TVs when connecting my PC.
You can either set your display to expect limited RGB, or force your video card to output full range RGB. IIRC, AMD has this as a setting in the control center. For my Nvidia card, this application was the solution.
Rex_Harrison
Banned
Most TV's with an HDMI port can do that ( at least the newer ones, last few years or so ). It's called HDMI CEC. You can control any HDMI CEC compatible device with your TV remote. It's pretty cool.
Unknown Soldier
Member
A lot of people don't realize that the Xbone is just using HDMI CEC to control your TV as well. There is absolutely nothing interesting about what the Xbone does in that regard.
Haint
Member
They were actually very great initially. 0.008fL blacks and the 50" could hit windowed white peaks of ~90fL (bright as fuck). That's incredible CR performance even by today's standards. Problem is Panasonic over shot the voltage adjustments which led to the black level doubling, then tripling, then who knows at presumably preset hour counts. If not for that software mistake, they would still be great panels unmatched in CR by any LCD save for perhaps a few FALDers.