PC version is probably gonna have the same textures and geometry downgrades of the console release. I at least expect the lighting system and other effects of the demo to be still present on the PC version.
#DarkSoulsDowngrade and #YOULIED \\ a.k.a You got some splainin' to do, Namco
- Thread starter Havel
- Start date
PC version is probably gonna have the same textures and geometry downgrades of the console release. I at least expect the lighting system and other effects of the demo to be still present on the PC version.
and not one of them had the presence of mind to think "hey, something seems off here... like... this doesn't look the way I remember it looking in our previews before..."?
I can't believe almost none of them had the forethought to remember that shit. Sad state of affairs if so
Again...why should that matter at all in a review score? They are reviewing the finished product. They felt it was good. It's like a movie reviewer going back to a trailer and saying, "man, that trailer really made the movie look good, especially with that one scene that didn't even wind up in the movie...I better pull two stars off my review." Or, it would be like taking a game that had all kinds of development trouble, but turned out pretty good (like Metal Gear Rising) and then knocking the score down just because they had some issues.
The way this should be handled is you report on the issue separately and your review score is independent of it.
legacyzero
Banned
That's such a bummer, man. It looked AMAZING!
PetriP-TNT
Member
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
To be fair game does not deserve 9.5 with those kind of graphics like many sites are giving it! Don't care how good the gameplay is, there is also a portion of that score reserved for graphics and those are not 9.5 worth.
It was never going to push lighting like that on PS3.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
In my opinion you've got a bigger chance of the old textures returning than lighting/shadows, as that would be the easiest, most logical scaling downgrade. Removing specular/normal maps from textures and decreasing resolution would save a lot on processing cost. It's why when you take a PC/console game the boost to textures and effect layers is immediately noticeable.
I don't actually think that will happen though. A lot of that data probably doesn't exist or wasn't made for the full game, so they've settled on this quality.
Lighting is a huge one because it seriously seems like the light rendering engine itself was totally overhauled. Not a case of simplifying, but basically going "fuck it" and baking a ton of shadows instead of rendering everything in real time. I figure Dark Souls 2 PC will ship in the same state.
Hypothetically if Dark Souls 2 PC does launch with both the old textures and old lighting/shadow system, it will probably be the most impressive port quality turnaround from any developer ever
.
I love you too.
I don't actually think that will happen though. A lot of that data probably doesn't exist or wasn't made for the full game, so they've settled on this quality.
Lighting is a huge one because it seriously seems like the light rendering engine itself was totally overhauled. Not a case of simplifying, but basically going "fuck it" and baking a ton of shadows instead of rendering everything in real time. I figure Dark Souls 2 PC will ship in the same state.
Hypothetically if Dark Souls 2 PC does launch with both the old textures and old lighting/shadow system, it will probably be the most impressive port quality turnaround from any developer ever
.I love you too.
Exploding8
Member
This is depressing, especially because it looks like the changes are ones that will affect the PC version as well T.T
DarkoMaledictus
Tier Whore
Then on what is it going to push it? I bet pc is just a higher rez version of what we got on the consoles... going to be pissed if that is the case!
Tomb Raider says otherwise.
It's a real shame. Guess I should be glad it ended up at least on par with the first game if they really had to gut it right before release. There's some real questionable texture and model work in this game which I can only assume were hastily put in place of higher quality assets.
IonicSnake
Banned
I don't think anyone thought the PS3/360 version would look that good but it's like watching two entirely different games, it's not even close to the demo. They advertised that as a PS3, 360 and PC game, you would expect something that resembles that on all platforms.
In my opinion you've got a bigger chance of the old textures returning than lighting/shadows, as that would be the easiest, most logical scaling downgrade. Removing specular/normal maps from textures and decreasing resolution would save a lot on processing cost. It's why when you take a PC/console game the boost to textures and effect layers is immediately noticeable.
I don't actually think that will happen though. A lot of that data probably doesn't exist or wasn't made for the full game, so they've settled on this quality.
Lighting is a huge one because it seriously seems like the light rendering engine itself was totally overhauled. Not a case of simplifying, but basically going "fuck it" and baking a ton of shadows instead of rendering everything in real time. I figure Dark Souls 2 PC will ship in the same state.
Hypothetically if Dark Souls 2 PC does launch with both the old textures and old lighting/shadow system, it will probably be the most impressive port quality turnaround from any developer ever
I love you too.
I highly doubt the PC version had the old textures, old lighting and shadows is still there, I hope.
Confidence Man
Member
Why not? It looked good but not that good.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Except it pretty much did, proven by the TGS demo running on PS3s.
Which is kind of the problem considering this was shown 6 weeks before launch as "PS3" footage:
But the game actually launched looking like this:
And there are still zero official shots of the game's final build anywhere.
vpance
Member
Confirmed real PS3s? Not PCs hidden in a cabinet underneath?
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
T
TrueMenace
Unconfirmed Member
I'm waiting for the PC version since I don't have a PS3 or 360 anymore (have a PS4).
They promised 60 fps, better resolution, and improved textures but they didn't say anything about lighting or overall better graphics. We'll know for sure if they gimped the lighting when the PC version is out.
They promised 60 fps, better resolution, and improved textures but they didn't say anything about lighting or overall better graphics. We'll know for sure if they gimped the lighting when the PC version is out.
jacksepticeye
Member
The funniest part is when the first reveal was shown people here on GAF weren't even all that impressed by most of what they saw visually except for the lighting on the bonfire illuminating the area, the torch and the specular red hallway sections.
Everything else people were saying "doesn't look that much different" and cleaimed textures were muddy. Now they've seen how terrible the retail version is by comparison the old build doesn't look so bad
Everything else people were saying "doesn't look that much different" and cleaimed textures were muddy. Now they've seen how terrible the retail version is by comparison the old build doesn't look so bad
As someone who only occasionally perused those threads and never got invested. Seeing it in person at a friends house yesterday, the game looked perfectly fine. With their tech and resources I doubt there was ever a chance in it looking better, they just decided to use some fancy PC builds for marketing.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Its crazy people still can't get it into their heads that PS3's were running those versions in many expos where many people including me played the MK demo.
GreatestHits
Member
That looks exactly like Dark Souls 1 to me. The downgrade here, to me, is from DS1 to DS2, not even considering the old revealed footage. That's depressing. makes me think after getting through new game plus on DS2 for the gameplay experience, that unless the gameplay is truly improved, I'll always go to DS1 for my fix.
vpance
Member
Well then. I blame the 360.
Best case scenario it'll look like TGS, but the original reveal no way.
Considering the 360 version runs up to 10fps better in some spots I'd say your blame is probably pretty misdirected.
Players and reviewers mentioned several times that the game runs better on 360.
You even have videos comparing the FPS of the two versions.
GreatestHits
Member
If these downgrades targeted that specific platform then the blame would be aptly directed. Just saying, we know nothing based on that
I hope so.
Although the 360 version tears, doesn't it? The PS3 version hasn't teared once while I play.
what
Since I guess what I said flew over your head: if they were targeted for the 360 then why does the 360 version outperform the ps3 version by such a wide margin?
vpance
Member
Maybe predowngrade it ran better on PS3? Unlikely I guess.
That's a real mystery then. Purposefully downgraded to sell a future next gen version is my last theory.
Garcia
Member
Yeah, that's what I think as well. This problem could have been avoided if they just completely ignored the PS3/X360 from the beginning. Had they aimed to launch it on PC/next-gen consoles it might have come pretty close to their original vertical slice.
What's most likely is that they couldn't maintain the lighting at acceptable framerates throughout the entire game. For all we know the few demos we saw were largely smoke and mirrors with most of the real game's dungeon gated off in game and not loaded into memory, thus allowing for more horsepower to be spent on the few areas that were being brought in.
Ugh can I get a refund from steam? Game sounds fucking terrible and here is the sad part...
Played and loved all the kings field games over.. And over again, played all the other from software games and loved them including armored core and chromehounds... Also played the hell out of demons souls and dark souls..
Fuck you from software and the new director for...
-enemy despawn
-pulling a large publisher move by not delivering on promised graphics.
-fucking warping to locations? Your games are about atmosphere and exploration.. Unless its mild warping as kings field had it late in game...
Enemy despawn is a huge fucking issue for me..
Playing the game I actually think the game is designed well around warping. You still have to explore areas for the first time to get to the bonfire to warp with, but if the game didn't have warping I would honestly be pissed off with the way they designed the levels.
The enemies are tougher than before and slogging through an enemy ridden area each time you need to backtrack would drive me crazy (it's different than DeS and DS1, it really is). Plus, you have to go back to Majula each time you want to level up or reinforce your estus flask so you basically need warping since each of the locations in the game spiral away from Majula.
As for despawning, I also hated it at first but find it to be kind of well-implemented here. The enemies, like I said, are tougher. After a certain point early in the game you might be pissed slogging through 10 difficult enemies just to reach the boss gate. The game also uses this as a way to force you to fight for your right to grind. You can reset the enemy spawns at a bonfire using an item you get in-game, which will let you grind. Otherwise, you have to be mindful of your enemies and not bask in the luxury of being able to grind whenever you want.
They're new mechanics and I was extremely hesitant to accept them, but so far from playing, they work well enough.
I haven't had to grind once and I'm already at a higher level than I ever was in DS1.
Ingueferroque
Banned
Of course not.
It will be higher resolution and framerate, I expect it to have some additional shading effects, but the stripped assets and lighting is going to remain the same.
Why hasn't this information been leaked yet? People have seen it.. I'm going to feel ripped off if it turns out to be another shit port that looks worse then what was promised.
I haven't cancelled my pre-order yet..
I saw a GAFfer's footage today and the cloak looked good to me.
Going OT for a bit, but I still don't understand why they did this. I mean ffs you can warp to any bonfire anyways so what's the point in forcing us to sit through 2 loading times to get back there to level up?
GreatestHits
Member
I think what I said flew over your head. Because they were targeting the platform, as in, tweaking FOR the platform. All I'm saying is just because it was 10 FPS higher doesn't mean it absolves it from being the cause of all this. That's it.
It does seem like an arbitrary mechanic.
So what you're saying is that the version that doesn't run at an average of around 26 FPS is more likely the reason the effects were cut...?
Magic 8-ball says outlook not so good, man.
I don't have the game so I'm just guessing but maybe important changes happen in Majula (maybe even something as simple as important dialog) as you progress through the game and they wanted you to notice these when you return after a journey to *insert area here*.
Garcia
Member
That's exactly what I keep asking myself. Besides, why wouldn't they add a full HDD install for consoles?? It is an open ended world! Playing the disc version is a test of your patience.
It pretty much is.
You are the Dark Souls 2 hype killer lol
Alebrije
Member
Yep , its sad. the analogy with the hamburguer fits because the final produc tastes same as the original ( fun) but looks considerable worse.
My only answer is that Namco and From just went for the money on this game , obviously its a business they need to male money but they knew a graphical downgrade wont stop the people to purchase the game.
Japanese developer does not rely much on graphics ( Kojima is an exception ) , Capcom´s Drangon Dogma is other example of regular graphics. But in this game Namco/From created exepectactions with the videos released before launch so for me what they did is similar to false/ fake marketing.
FairXchange
Member
Individual enemies will stop spawning after about 15 repeated kills.
You kill enemies enough times in an area and they won't come back, I believe.
Garcia
Member
Aww,
. But you know, the game stands out by its online mechanics alone. Helping people out to kill bosses and clean out whole areas is pure joy. You eventually tend to ignore its ugliness because of how engaging the Co-op mechanics are. We are really going to have a great time when this gets released on Steam and that is a very good reason to remain hyped for the game. 