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[ColourRevolt]

Allow me to reiterate what Paz utters as Snake is hauling her off to the landing zone:

Pain is an illusion... Pain is in the mind...

This is pure speculation, but I think this is foreshadowing either the hospital scene in The Phantom Pain or... perhaps -- just perhaps -- it's an indication that a huge part of the plot in TPP is nothing more than an illusion, or that the plot works in some sort of illusory way.

(The Phantom) Pain is an illusion... (The Phantom) Pain is in the mind...

 

[Erigu]

This wasn't too bad and may have even been planned.

Yet another age retcon though.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

Allow me to reiterate what Paz utters as Snake is hauling her off to the landing zone:

Pain is an illusion... Pain is in the mind...

This is pure speculation, but I think this is foreshadowing either the hospital scene in The Phantom Pain or... perhaps -- just perhaps -- it's an indication that a huge part of the plot in TPP is nothing more than an illusion, or that the plot works in some sort of illusory way.

(The Phantom) Pain is an illusion... (The Phantom) Pain is in the mind...

Now that you mention it, there was that theory that MGS5 was a propaganda film, was that ever disproved?

 

[Cubed]

So tired of people saying MGS4 just messed things up.

No, MGS2 did. Love the meta bullshit all you want, it doesn't change the fact that all the other MGS games are similar in tone and cohesive. MGS2 is the bastard, not 4.

I agree some of the hints are too subtle in MGS3, but the hints were certainly there that Para-Medic and Sigint could go on to be the Patriots. Obsession and a misguided sense of righteousness drove these people:

Sigint was obsessed with technology and obviously needed to utilize Zero's resources in order to satiate his fascination with arms and thought technology/arms would help control people for their own good. If the Patriots controlled the world, they could bring it together. I mean, he went to work for ARPANET after 3; nothing too mind-binding here.

Para-Medic was similar, but obsessed with genes and biology instead of military technology. She constantly refers to Naked Snake's genes and how special he is. Again, it's a small leap from this obsession to then using gene therapy and cloning to manipulate the battlefields for Zero and the Patriots.

Zero is more of a leap, but that's kind of the point of giving us MGSV... it really seems like even Kojima realizes the MGS4 Epilogue reveal was out of left field, but he wanted to shock us. Now he just needs to show the evolution of Zero. I don't think it's much of a stretch. The simple explanation that Zero needed a way to control the world's armies and governments in order to fulfill the Boss' goal works for most MGS fans.

None of this is that complicated. Just play through MGSV and then see how many "holes" there are. I feel the whole purpose of this game is to show the evolution, or devolution, as it were, of both Zero and Big Boss.

 

[pupcoffee]

I think we'll see him. But I think what Kojima is actually doing might be a response to the reaction to that... instead of trying to add credibility to this notion of "my goofy james bond loving CO became the evil puppetmaster of the entire series" by showing him as the main villain in this game, I think he may actually go the other way and say that Zero was never really a "bad guy" as such, he was just a misguided goofy bond fanatic who happened to be holding all the cards and hiring secret agents who he assigned bond girl names like "Pacifica Ocean" and simply had a disagreement in philosophy with Big Boss as opposed to plotting his demise.

Then something got out of hand, i.e Skull Face destroying Motherbase, and from that both sides blamed each other and that started the mess that is the series with both sides being driven by revenge and falling from grace respectively. If I remember correctly Zero got so upset over Big Boss's death that he had the A.Is created and leaving it in their hands was what brought the world to ruin by their own decision making not really him, so I really think there's two sides to the story and we might find that Big Boss and his followers (who conveniently were the only ones left to tell the tale of the war between Zero and Big Boss) might just end up being the less sympathetic side of the conflict than what were led to believe.

This is a pretty damn interesting theory! If Phantom Pan can retroactively make Big Boss in MGS4 seem less of a good guy (by showing that Zero actually was trying to stop Phantom Pain's super villain Big Boss from doing bad things) that'd be pretty amazing. It would completely flip the context of the "Big Boss kills Zero" scene too and make it so much darker. It would also make Ocelot more of a core villain again, if he's working for Big Boss and Big Boss is less heroic than we think.

And great catch r.e. Pacifica Ocean being a bond-like female name. Pacifica Ocean makes at least some sense considering she was hired by Zero, who we know totally is a goofy Bond fan who bases code names off of movies. It's hilarious that Zero kept using that "Zero" code name for the rest of the series just because he liked the reference to the movie The Great Escape.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

So tired of people saying MGS4 just messed things up.

No, MGS2 did. Love the meta bullshit all you want, it doesn't change the fact that all the other MGS games are similar in tone and cohesive. MGS2 is the bastard, not 4.

I agree some of the hints are too subtle in MGS3, but the hints were certainly there that Para-Medic and Sigint could go on to be the Patriots. Obsession and a misguided sense of righteousness drove these people:

Sigint was obsessed with technology and obviously needed to utilize Zero's resources in order to satiate his fascination with arms and thought technology/arms would help control people for their own good. If the Patriots controlled the world, they could bring it together. I mean, he went to work for ARPANET after 3; nothing too mind-binding here.

Para-Medic was similar, but obsessed with genes and biology instead of military technology. She constantly refers to Naked Snake's genes and how special he is. Again, it's a small leap from this obsession to then using gene therapy and cloning to manipulate the battlefields for Zero and the Patriots.

Zero is more of a leap, but that's kind of the point of giving us MGSV... it really seems like even Kojima realizes the MGS4 Epilogue reveal was out of left field, but he wanted to shock us. Now he just needs to show the evolution of Zero. I don't think it's much of a stretch. The simple explanation that Zero needed a way to control the world's armies and governments in order to fulfill the Boss' goal works for most MGS fans.

None of this is that complicated. Just play through MGSV and then see how many "holes" there are. I feel the whole purpose of this game is to show the evolution, or devolution, as it were, of both Zero and Big Boss.

Nah, MGS4's a bastard too. I agree that MGS2 is where it started, but 4 went way further off the deep end. Also I'd argue that in terms of tone, mgs2 is so much closer to 1 than 4 is, it's not even funny.

 

[Mellahan]

Anyone catch the "V" symbolism with Paz? When she's strung up in the admin building, her body is positioned in a "V." Both arms up and outstretched.

Don't know if it was intentional. Heh.

 

[johnFkennedy]

Is there a scene after the credits? I hit the guide button as the credit were rolling and my xbone freaked out and turned itself off.

 

[raven777]

Is there a scene after the credits? I hit the guide button as the credit were rolling and my xbone freaked out and turned itself off.

yes.

 

[ColourRevolt]

Now that you mention it, there was that theory that MGS5 was a propaganda film, was that ever disproved?

Nothing can be proven or disproven until further evidence arises (i.e. when the game releases).

 

[pupcoffee]

Does anybody else think Skullface is just wearing a mask, for show?

 

[RyanardoDaVinci]

Does anybody else think Skullface is just wearing a mask, for show?

But he also wears a kato mask.

A mask upon a mask. How deep does it go?

MASKCEPTION!

 

[pupcoffee]

So tired of people saying MGS4 just messed things up.

I agree some of the hints are too subtle in MGS3, but the hints were certainly there that Para-Medic and Sigint could go on to be the Patriots. Obsession and a misguided sense of righteousness drove these people:

Sigint was obsessed with technology and obviously needed to utilize Zero's resources in order to satiate his fascination with arms and thought technology/arms would help control people for their own good. If the Patriots controlled the world, they could bring it together. I mean, he went to work for ARPANET after 3; nothing too mind-binding here.

Para-Medic was similar, but obsessed with genes and biology instead of military technology. She constantly refers to Naked Snake's genes and how special he is. Again, it's a small leap from this obsession to then using gene therapy and cloning to manipulate the battlefields for Zero and the Patriots.

Zero is more of a leap, but that's kind of the point of giving us MGSV... it really seems like even Kojima realizes the MGS4 Epilogue reveal was out of left field, but he wanted to shock us. Now he just needs to show the evolution of Zero. I don't think it's much of a stretch. The simple explanation that Zero needed a way to control the world's armies and governments in order to fulfill the Boss' goal works for most MGS fans.

None of this is that complicated. Just play through MGSV and then see how many "holes" there are. I feel the whole purpose of this game is to show the evolution, or devolution, as it were, of both Zero and Big Boss.

Whilst these aren't bad points considering where these characters ended up, MGS3 has a timeline at the end of the game that states that the US branch of the Philosophers became the patriots. It wasn't until Portable Ops and MGS4 that this got completely changed to Zero.

 

[Sevket-Erhat]

Does anybody else think Skullface is just wearing a mask, for show?

I guess his face was burnt somehow

 

[squadr0n]

Is there any easter eggs hidden in ground zeros, espically the extra missions? For example on the xbone mission. Theres a kojima productions logo without the fox in the oval. Theres a spotlight that shines the logo and if you line them up Kaz says something.

 

[ShinoguTakeruKoeru]

Is there any easter eggs hidden in ground zeros, espically the extra missions? For example on the xbone mission. Theres a kojima productions logo without the fox in the oval. Theres a spotlight that shines the logo and if you line them up Kaz says something.

To reveal the logos for KojiPro and KojiPro LA? Yeah, that's goofy.

I just finished the Déjà Vu mission, loved all of the MGS1 references (Finding the pistol under the truck for starters, didn't click with me until I remembered the initial SOCOM), and Kiefer Snake and Downes Miller's readings of all the lines. I can only imagine how much goofier Sugita makes Kaz sound in this.

Does anybody who beat the Xbox missions know if there's Snatcher arrangements in the mission BGM? MGS1 music got new treatments in Déjà Vu, so what about Snatcher or MGR BGM?

 

[Tookay]

Now that you mention it, there was that theory that MGS5 was a propaganda film, was that ever disproved?

And there was a theory that MGS3 was a time travel story or memory simulation.

I think everybody's looking way too hard at this.

Kojima has enough on his hands trying to tie up Big Boss' story... I don't see how introducing something this complex (or a doppleganger) makes it any easier.

 

[Sevket-Erhat]

Is there a scene after the credits? I hit the guide button as the credit were rolling and my xbone freaked out and turned itself off.

Anyone care to analyse after the ending scene? I could not make out who was talking really

 

[TalonJH]

I actually enjoyed the hell out of Ground Zeros. It makes me even more hype for The Phantom Pain. It was a little jarring seeing Kojima's new approach to cutscenes. Sadly I feel like they've given up some of the Kojima/Japan craziness.

 

[TalonJH]

Anyone care to analyse after the ending scene? I could not make out who was talking really

I'm pretty sure it's Skull Face.

 

[Love Deterrence]

Yeah, I am still having such a hard time dealing with Zero basically being the ultimate villan of the whole series, but we never really see that in his character at all in MGS3, and they never have shown him in a MGS game since then.

I think we may get a closer look at that in The Phantom Pain. Kojima has stated that Big Boss' relationship with Zero will be portrayed, however, it will not be the main focus.

Anyone care to analyse after the ending scene? I could not make out who was talking really

Looking to locate Zero (Cipher), Skull Face questions Paz, asking if she felt her sacrifice would save the world. She wants to know if it will save Big Boss to which Skull Face replies "It may." Paz then asks if he would kill Zero. Skull Face responds, making it clear that it wouldn't be for her. Paz submits and (presumably) gives Skull Face info on Zero's whereabouts. "Zero is..." (And I believe that's it, right?)

 

[brian!]

Yeah, I am still having such a hard time dealing with Zero basically being the ultimate villan of the whole series, but we never really see that in his character at all in MGS3, and they never have shown him in a MGS game since then.

it probably began here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv4EwjuSMVU

 

[luckygodzilla]

I actually enjoyed the hell out of Ground Zeros. It makes me even more hype for The Phantom Pain. It was a little jarring seeing Kojima's new approach to cutscenes. Sadly I feel like they've given up some of the Kojima/Japan craziness.

start the main mission again, go prone, and roll back and forth on the ground for about a minute. Trust me, the crazy is still there, you just have to look for it.

 

[Alienous]

The weirdest part of that whole thing, to me, was Sigint becoming the DARPA Chief like you can just turn one person into another person retroactively. Like "Hey, we have two black dudes! We can definitely get away with merging them into one character!"

They tell you SIGINT joins ARPA in the Snake Eater credits. That was probably always the plan.

 

[Yoda]

Yeah, I am still having such a hard time dealing with Zero basically being the ultimate villan of the whole series, but we never really see that in his character at all in MGS3, and they never have shown him in a MGS game since then.

One of the problems with the MGS series is the need to connect all the characters merely just to connect them. The decision to make Zero the mastermind of the patriots was simply due to the fact Kojima wanted everything to end in MGS4 (yeah we know how that turned out). Problem being MGS3 did set the foundation for what would become the pseudo New World Order organization (patriots) but it had absolutely no meat to it. Its another problem that they jump all over the place time-line wise. Zero was literally one of the only characters who could have been the mastermind given what was established in the series lore (a poor choice imo, at least in the context MGS4 gave it).

They can make him a solid choice if the explain how he establishes his power and why he becomes such an enemy to Big Boss because right now the motives don't seem all that great.

 

[Alienous]

So tired of people saying MGS4 just messed things up.

No, MGS2 did. Love the meta bullshit all you want, it doesn't change the fact that all the other MGS games are similar in tone and cohesive. MGS2 is the bastard, not 4.

I agree some of the hints are too subtle in MGS3, but the hints were certainly there that Para-Medic and Sigint could go on to be the Patriots. Obsession and a misguided sense of righteousness drove these people:

Sigint was obsessed with technology and obviously needed to utilize Zero's resources in order to satiate his fascination with arms and thought technology/arms would help control people for their own good. If the Patriots controlled the world, they could bring it together. I mean, he went to work for ARPANET after 3; nothing too mind-binding here.

Para-Medic was similar, but obsessed with genes and biology instead of military technology. She constantly refers to Naked Snake's genes and how special he is. Again, it's a small leap from this obsession to then using gene therapy and cloning to manipulate the battlefields for Zero and the Patriots.

Zero is more of a leap, but that's kind of the point of giving us MGSV... it really seems like even Kojima realizes the MGS4 Epilogue reveal was out of left field, but he wanted to shock us. Now he just needs to show the evolution of Zero. I don't think it's much of a stretch. The simple explanation that Zero needed a way to control the world's armies and governments in order to fulfill the Boss' goal works for most MGS fans.

None of this is that complicated. Just play through MGSV and then see how many "holes" there are. I feel the whole purpose of this game is to show the evolution, or devolution, as it were, of both Zero and Big Boss.

Of all the shit that's flung at MGS4's plot I enjoyed the revelation of who the Patriots were. Both Big Boss and Zero covertly bear witness to the American government doing some fucked up conspiracy level shit and become disillusioned. Big Boss splits off, Zero uses his influence to assume control.

Eventually, as we see in MGS2, the AI used by Zero to manage worldly affairs becomes autonomous, and begins to view human culture as decadent. The AI works independently of Zero, and therefore Zero (like Big Boss) dies doubtful that he did any good.

 

[TickleMeElbow]

Don't know if this was mentioned yet, but I was replaying the main mission and found that you can find and extract the escaped prisoner hiding in a corner before you rescue Chico (before he's caught by the guards and is set to be executed).

Thought that was a cool detail by the developers.

 

[matrix-cat]

I haven't unlocked all the tapes yet, but this is what I've gleaned about Skull Face's backstory so far:

- He's from a country that doesn't exist any more, meaning it was conquered/lost its sovereignty in war and was swallowed up by the nation that defeated it. He was visiting his parents in the factory at which they worked when it was bombed, and it sounds like everyone but him was killed in the ensuing fire (that's where he lost his face).

- He has some kind of history with Big Boss. He tells Chico something to the effect of 'your boss and I go way back'. I'm leaning towards the idea of him being someone we haven't seen before (think Cunningham from Portable Ops), but you never know with Kojima. The fact that he seems to have lost his face when he was young leads me to believe that he isn't any character we've seen 'recently' in the series.

- He's a Cipher agent, but he definitely isn't loyal to them. In fact, he has one hell of a grudge against Zero, so it'll be interesting to see where that comes from and what his motivations are. He doesn't seem to have anything against Big Boss, as far as I can tell; he seems to treat BB as collateral damage in the strike on Mother Base (which I assume was on Zero's orders). It seems like he'll be a third party in the Zero/Big Boss war in TPP.

I was pretty disappointed that there was almost nothing in GZ that we hadn't already seen in the trailers, but the cassette tapes provide a wealth of information to obsess over until the full game comes out. All kinds of neat stuff, like that Zero apparently hasn't been seen in person by anyone except Paz since the LET project, or Huey really looking like he might be a double agent for Skull Face. I'll have to go back and find the rest of those tapes.

 

[Alienous]

Also, regarding Zero, he has as much reason for 'turning bad' as Big Boss does. Assuming he doesn't kill himself at the end of Snake Eater, he'd almost surely become a destructive force.

"I promised Sokolov I'd get him out. He's dead, because of the government. I was manipulated to command Snake to kill The Boss, because of money."

That's enough of an excuse to go apeshit. Instead Zero, being the tactician he has, uses his high ranking military position to, over the course of decades, gain influence over the US government.

 

[Alienous]

I haven't unlocked all the tapes yet, but this is what I've gleaned about Skull Face's backstory so far:

- He's from a country that doesn't exist any more, meaning it was conquered/lost its sovereignty in war and was swallowed up by the nation that defeated it. He was visiting his parents in the factory at which they worked when it was bombed, and it sounds like everyone but him was killed in the ensuing fire (that's where he lost his face).

- He has some kind of history with Big Boss. He tells Chico something to the effect of 'your boss and I go way back'. I'm leaning towards the idea of him being someone we haven't seen before (think Cunningham from Portable Ops), but you never know with Kojima. The fact that he seems to have lost his face when he was young leads me to believe that he isn't any character we've seen 'recently' in the series.

- He's a Cipher agent, but he definitely isn't loyal to them. In fact, he has one hell of a grudge against Zero, so it'll be interesting to see where that comes from and what his motivations are. He doesn't seem to have anything against Big Boss, as far as I can tell; he seems to treat BB as collateral damage in the strike on Mother Base (which I assume was on Zero's orders). It seems like he'll be a third party in the Zero/Big Boss war in TPP.

I was pretty disappointed that there was almost nothing in GZ that we hadn't already seen in the trailers, but the cassette tapes provide a wealth of information to obsess over until the full game comes out. All kinds of neat stuff, like that Zero apparently hasn't been seen in person by anyone except Paz since the LET project, or Huey really looking like he might be a double agent for Skull Face. I'll have to go back and find the rest of those tapes.

I haven't heard the tapes in about a week, but I remember Skull Face saying something that alludes to Big Boss not listening. Something like "So, you can listen, unlike your Boss" to Chico or Paz.

Skull Face also calls Snake 'Big Boss', his US military designation. This and the XOF connection (the members of which seem American) suggests to me that Skull Face might've been a former military comrade of Jack's (before he was Snake) who was abandoned by Jack, and perhaps the US government. Which is why he creates a mirror US special ops organization.

However, he has had indirect communication with Zero, and wants to kill him. I'm feeling like this could be a Skyfall-like Javier Bardem twist.

 

[infinityBCRT]

Well, Big Boss was once an awkward mamma's boy who loved hiding inside cardboard boxes above all else and had a weird fetish for firearms. So we'll just have to wait and see how Zero turns out...

It's been a while since I've seen that Big Boss == awkward and has fetish for firearms theory. At least back in the day, people who said this usually didn't like Big Boss or MGS3. To me, the dude just is a gun nerd. If you think that's a fetish, then you could also say we all have a fetish for video games.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

The weirdest part of that whole thing, to me, was Sigint becoming the DARPA Chief like you can just turn one person into another person retroactively. Like "Hey, we have two black dudes! We can definitely get away with merging them into one character!"

Eh, Paramedic is the only one that bothers me.

 

[KittenMaster]

I think the thing that was a bit excessive for me concerning the above characters was

Spoiler

that there really wasn't any reason for them to be the patriots, or even Ocelot and any other MGS3 character really. It seems like only Zero took a real political ruler position while the rest continued to be spies and scientists.

 

[Alienous]

I think the thing that was a bit excessive for me concerning the above characters was

Spoiler

that there really wasn't any reason for them to be the patriots, or even Ocelot and any other MGS3 character really. It seems like only Zero took a real political ruler position while the rest continued to be spies and scientists.

They aligned themselves with the side that didn't fuck over Big Boss.

 

[beastmode]

The "Elminate the Renegade Threat" side-op has a pretty cool story. If you interrogate the targets, one will ask if you too are a "phantom" and the other says "a phantom comes." Kaz is in disbelief with Snake's actions if you extract them, but in the post-credits blurb he finds out they have PTSD and have taken to self-mutilating. They've even removed their namesake body parts, now replaced with prosthetics.

 

[Palette Swap]

The "Elminate the Renegade Threat" side-op has a pretty cool story. If you interrogate the targets, one will ask if you too are a "phantom" and the other says "a phantom comes." Kaz is in disbelief with Snake's actions if you extract them, but in the post-credits blurb he finds out they have PTSD and have taken to self-mutilating. They've even removed their namesake body parts, now replaced with prosthetics.

Now that's pretty awesome.
I was going to extract them but after putting the first to sleep, Kaz essentially told me I had to kill them to complete the mission.

Fucking Kaz, man.

 

[Erigu]

Kojima has enough on his hands trying to tie up Big Boss' story... I don't see how introducing something this complex (or a doppleganger) makes it any easier.

Oh, it doesn't. Never got the impression that stopped Kojima from piling up poorly thought plot points though. I don't imagine he'll be much more successful at tying up Big Boss' story than he was with Solid Snake's.

 

[John_B]

After completing the main mission yesterday, I'm very positive in regards to the mechanics and the visuals.

It's not a proper MGS experience though, and it feels much more like a heartless technical demonstration with some heavy cutscenes thrown in. If you go and look at the Phantom Pain demonstration of the beginning of that game, everything is very carefully crafted like in most of the beginnings of MGS games. In GZ you just spawn at a cliff side. Not much dialogue or introduction. It totally lacks the seasoning that gives MGS soul.

Phantom Pain will be a different matter, the seasoning will be in full effect, the scale even greater, the detail likely much better, and having confirmed the game will play very well and the visuals are great, I'm sure it will be an amazing game.

 

[casmith07]

MGS4 really mucked things up.

I can't remember but did the game ever address how the public reacted to(or how the Patriots covered up) Arsenal Gear crashing into Manhattan and the former President lying dead in the streets while wearing a Doctor Octopus exoskeleton?

It was all a training scenario for Raiden to become a member of FOXHOUND.

 

[BloodMoney]

has anyone come across a revolver in GZ?

 

[casmith07]

I was pretty disappointed that there was almost nothing in GZ that we hadn't already seen in the trailers, but the cassette tapes provide a wealth of information to obsess over until the full game comes out. All kinds of neat stuff, like that Zero apparently hasn't been seen in person by anyone except Paz since the LET project, or Huey really looking like he might be a double agent for Skull Face. I'll have to go back and find the rest of those tapes.

I think Huey is simply just like his son -- an aloof, nerdy, gullible, "beta" for lack of a better term. Which is fine, because he's the scientist/R&D guy.

 

[psychotron]

On my second time through, I'm noticing how the game adapts to what's currently going on. On my first time through, I rescued all the prisoners, then Chico. On my second, I rescued Chico first, and the other prisoners kept yelling at me to help them and putting their arms through the bars.

Then when running to the chopper with Chico, I was in alert status and basically had to throw him on the chopper kicking and screaming, and his cassette tape fell on the ground. The second time I was not in alert status, was able to sit him down, talk with him and have him give me the tape willingly. Very cool, and makes me excited for Phantom Pain.

 

[SephCast]

has anyone come across a revolver in GZ?

Yep, but I don't remember where or how haha. I also may be imagining this, but I think I remember seeing one last night. Sorry, I'm not much help.

 

[RyanardoDaVinci]

has anyone come across a revolver in GZ?

There's a non-lethal shotgun pistol.

It's available in every mission, either as a starting weapon, hidden somewhere, or a Rank reward. I think it's kept in the back of one of the trucks in the GZ mission.

 

[iMax]

So they snuck a snuke up her snizz?

 

[jsnepo]

It was all a training scenario for Raiden to become a member of FOXHOUND.

I remember the Manhattan incident being mentioned during the briefing of Act 1. I think the incident was a huge factor in the rise of the war economy.

I also agree that it was MGS2 that ruined any potential Solid Snake story arcs. Well at least the plant chapter did. The tanker chapter is still one of the greatest chapters in Metal Gear Solid history.

 

[Coconut]

I remember the Manhattan incident being mentioned during the briefing of Act 1. I think the incident was a huge factor in the rise of the war economy.

I also agree that it was MGS2 that ruined any potential Solid Snake story arcs. Well at least the plant chapter did. The tanker chapter is still one of the greatest chapters in Metal Gear Solid history.

The war economy was/is always taking place the manhattan thing was a cover to create a place to develop the GW operated metal gear submarine thing.

 

[jsnepo]

The war economy was/is always taking place the manhattan thing was a cover to create a place to develop the GW operated metal gear submarine thing.

What? The incident I was referring to was Arsenal Gear crashing into Manhattan.

 

[Coconut]

What? The incident I was referring to was Arsenal Gear crashing into Manhattan.

Ah sorry I thought you were referring to the oil tanker thing.

 

[TalonJH]

start the main mission again, go prone, and roll back and forth on the ground for about a minute. Trust me, the crazy is still there, you just have to look for it.

I'll have to try that.