Are you the white Uncle Ruckus?
Don't trust them new whities over yonder...
Why is racism in high fashion still wildly accepted?
- Thread starter Ken Masters
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Don't trust them new whities over yonder...
Oh if we're talking about main characters/protagonists then whites are certainly well over represented. Minorities, particularly Asians, are usually cast in the token-buddy-of-non-white-origin role from what I've seen.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
It'll go up for sure. My entire life in Vancouver is listening to south asian and east asian guys go insane over Canucks
Not really, I just don't like smug white superiority.
I have a Filipino friend who says he wishes he was white. Doesn't matter that he's successful, good looking, charming, cool as hell, etc... he has some sort of strange white envy. I just don't get it.
Not true! Kirby is pink and Yoshi is green
Examples? I can't think of many except for the generic "tough Black soldier" in every war game. Even beloved characters of color like Avery Johnson or Barrett Wallace tend to border on the stereotypical.
To answer OP's question - the reason you're seeing so few minority models is because of the direction high end luxury is moving.
These brands aren't interested in selling $3000 handbags to Americans or Western Europeans anymore (which are overall the more progressive nations) - they want to sell $30,000 handbags to the massive amount of wealth coming from the Chinese, Nigerians, Russians and Arabs. These guys are spending a lot of money buying into the 'traditional' western luxury dream and are generally less tolerant of non-white models.
They buy a Rolls Royce car because it's British and having one means they are more British. They buy a Hermès bag because it's French and having one means they are more French. A brown or black model spoils that fantasy for them.
The brands do not care about the progressive middle class white girl walking down Madison Avenue with a copy of Vogue in her handbag and a freetrade coffee in her hand. She might buy one $600 diffusion line item per season at best.
Tl;dr cultural insecurity among the ultra high net worth from developing nations.
These brands aren't interested in selling $3000 handbags to Americans or Western Europeans anymore (which are overall the more progressive nations) - they want to sell $30,000 handbags to the massive amount of wealth coming from the Chinese, Nigerians, Russians and Arabs. These guys are spending a lot of money buying into the 'traditional' western luxury dream and are generally less tolerant of non-white models.
They buy a Rolls Royce car because it's British and having one means they are more British. They buy a Hermès bag because it's French and having one means they are more French. A brown or black model spoils that fantasy for them.
The brands do not care about the progressive middle class white girl walking down Madison Avenue with a copy of Vogue in her handbag and a freetrade coffee in her hand. She might buy one $600 diffusion line item per season at best.
Tl;dr cultural insecurity among the ultra high net worth from developing nations.
For video games at least, the over-representation of whites, even in the case of secondary characters holds true. (Same for Asians actually.)
SteveWinwood
Member
This thread sure is something.
Sleeping Dogs
Beyond Good and Evil
Prince of Persia
Just Cause
Crysis 3
Shadowman
Shadow Warrior
There is some more to add to the small list.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
That's very interesting. I can see that. Those who really buy into old school luxury are kind of in the "America in the 1950s" level of economic development, and they tend to be more racist (except to white beauty standards).
"Luxury" is a modernist ideal. Not post-modernist, like those of us in long-since-developed nations.
In Asia it's associated with death.
There was already a discussion in this thread starting on page 2 about standards of beauty in relation to skin tone.
AwakenedCloud
Member
It takes all kinds to make something like this.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
There are a few others but it's nowhere near 20% of games. Same goes for film, television et.
How that guy came to the conclusion that minorities are over represented is something else.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Subculture of American blacks? What subculture do you mean?
Louis Vutton is owned by the conglomerate LVMH, which is a large scale European company pushing "luxury goods" to the global market. IMO, it's somewhat expensive goods for the quality you'll receive, but there's a quality standard LVMH upholds. It's not as blatant a "high luxury" push as Michael Kors but it's expensive goods for mass produced items.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I think he has a point. There are probably proportionately more blacks on TV, film, etc than in the American population.
And there are probably proportionately less Latinos and Asians.
Not games, though.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Honestly they're targeting their market, which is white people with money.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
It's a thread about racism in OT, which like clockwork, turns into a Twilight Zone episode like always lol.
This is completely ignoring other factors that could be at play like, say, culture. The NFL and NBA are dominated by african americans. Are you saying this is a 'problem'?
That's some strong minority support from an Asian company
Examples of Asians in video games? Just off the top of my head I'd say about Diablo 3, The Walking Dead, Tomb Raider and Killer Instinct. I mean, Asians make up less than 5% of America. I'd hazard to guess that the ratio of Whites to Asian characters in video games is less than 16:1.
It's a bit different talking about video games though because that's media which stretches America, though I don't think it's a stretch to say that Americans makes up a large percentage of those game's userbases.
I'm not trying to say that there are too many or that they're in leads, or that there should be more whites, but we're talking about a population that is somewhere between 70%-80% white, 5% Asian and 13% Black. I definitely do not consume a ton of varied media but from what I do the representation does not appear to be 8:1:.5.
theignoramus
Member
well that's fine to be blissfully ignorant of subtle racism, but when I see a whole shelves of beauty, cosmetic, fashion or even cooking or gardening magazines with covers that dont reflect the racially diverse society we live in, I cant help but notice it and think there are some nasty, none too subtle connotations about race and beauty.
You seriously can't be trying to say white people had it worse than blacks, right?
:lolol this site is fucking weird.
DoktorEvil
Banned
I often forget that new rich loves buying status goods and old money loves sentimentality and long term quality. Your post is very astute.
Those nations have just accumulated large sums of wealth because of the economic climate change. It does stand to reason that the new money would have their ideals and insecurities of how the rich should live.
There are also all the anime games that are actually depicting Asians yet whites assuming they must be white because white skin.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Bowser is Koopa in Japan, which is the Japanese name of gukbap.... so I'm gonna go ahead and say Bowser is Korean. FACT.
Yes
DoktorEvil
Banned
Taking about racism in General is a hard conversation to have. People define racism in his/her life differently, and I don't see how that conversation can be had without clear definitions of what's racist and what isn't.
IMO, Neo Nazi groups and the KKK are racist, having a magazine with all white models is not necessarily racist.
I don't appreciate the slight. I think you should ask yourself why you feel the need for beauty, cosmetics, and fashion to showcase that this specific product is for this specific race or ethnicity, even thought that product may not be useful to an individual.
theignoramus
Member
The NFL may be dominated by African Americans but that isnt reflected in the way the NFL "package" is marketed.
No, actually. They're mostly targeting the brown, black, yellow and (Russian) white. These guys come for the ready-to-wear but also the far, far, far more lucrative accessories, bags, bespoke and hard luxury.
Western white people are usually 'smart consumers' meaning they stop at the diffusion and ready-to-wear, making them less attractive customers than they used to be.
Does anyone have a study that actually calculates what the ratios of representation are in American TV shows, or movies?
It would be helpful to actually understand what the general trend is right now.
An aggregate of all forms of media would be a good start before discussing what to do about proper representation of races in media.
It would be helpful to actually understand what the general trend is right now.
An aggregate of all forms of media would be a good start before discussing what to do about proper representation of races in media.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
Couldn't find anything scientific or concrete but this is pretty close.
As far as TV goes Latinos/asians are very underrepresented, african americans are underrepresented, but not as bad as asians and latinos.
and white males are heavily over represented.
Of course. I think it's a historical legacy of the US for the way it is. People tend to see things in only white or black. For example, if it's time for a non-white James Bond, the default choice becomes black, without ever questioning/thinking why he can't be Chinese, Hispanic, Middle Eastern, Indian etc.
The most underrepresented group in the US is now Hispanics, in virtually all areas (politics, sports, media, culture) etc.
Edit: as for black overrepresentation, I don't think it's necessarily a problem because there is a huge difference in the way a black person is shown, as opposed to a white person. For example, having 4 main lead white chatacters on a television show and two token black chatacters may seem like representation, but are they equal?
Laieon
Member
No? I don't think I ever said that, but to claim that whites were never enslaved is pretty ignorant. There's a vast difference between "Whites had it worse than blacks" and "Whites were never enslaved". Blacks without a doubt had it worse in NA.
I'm not sure if Prince of Persia counts. Many Iranian people identify as white, and the Prince is always really light skinned. He can pass for European in every game (or movie, lol). Just Cause is the same scenario.
It's great that Beyond Good and Evil, Crysis, Shadowman, and Shadow Warrior had protagonists of color, but that's an unfortunately short list.
DoktorEvil
Banned
I remember reading something in an academic journal where it showed that in the scope of human history, all groups have had a period of slavery that displaced people from their land of origin.
RockTurtle
Member
Replace James Bond with a CGI model that changes race depending on the local demographics of the movie theatre. Problem solved ( ≖‿≖
theignoramus
Member
Because the cumulative effect of so little diversity is the reinforcement of a eurocentric standard of beauty, which can harm the self esteem of young black, brown, or asian kids who internalize that standard
DoktorEvil
Banned
So putting diversity in campaigns for products that would not be beneficial to them is your solution to self esteem issues?
You don't get it because as a mixed person you have part of the benefit of it(the light skin). There isnt a single ethnic community in the western world where lighter skin is not a distinct advantage. It's almost like a tall guy wondering why short guys have envy for it. Even when you are black other black folks will treat you differently if you have lighter skin. Look at the old pictures at hbcus. As late as the 70s Howard was paperbag checking folks.
Well, race is a social construct, without much bearing on biology. Because it's an ever-expanding label, it's pretty hard to define what "white" means.
I would personally define a white person as any person with light skin who is not ethnically East Asian. This includes most Europeans as well as many Middle Eastern and West Asian people. Two centuries ago, the Irish were not considered white people. Now, the Irish are often seen as the whitest people. Often, being a Spanish speaker is enough to make somebody not be seen as white by some people. In the future, that might not be the case at all.
While I would personally consider Omar Sharif, Freddy Mercury, and Cameron Diaz to be white, I'm not sure how they would identify themselves. Race is not based on genetics or ethnicity, and is often a matter of personal agency.
Them's fightin' words.
It seems like the trick is to punch and move your head out of the way at the same time.
So anything less than Nazis and the KKK isn't really racist?
Well that kind of explains your "assumptions" about black people wearing "streetwear."
theignoramus
Member
we were discussing the impact of fashion industry racial bias, which you were casually indifferent (or ignorant) about. Now you want to shift the discussion to solutions and posit that more racial diversity doesnt benefit these industries in any way, therefore it's absurd to demand it. Okay. I would counter that argument with the idea that more racial diversity wouldnt harm them in any meaningful way because models with Caucasian features would continue being the most prominently featured models
travisbickle
Member
Probably because access to the fashion industry as a model is limited, predominantly, to children of rich, white American families.
A lot of the models you see outside of the norm are picked from the street, those who don't perceive themselves as model material. Someone from my school became a model, I'm British and her parents are Chinese immigrants. She was "spotted" while on a day trip in London, because her shop-owning parents weren't sending her to modelling agencies and paying her to attend shows, and they weren't pleased when she said she wanted to pursue it as a career.
A lot of the models you see outside of the norm are picked from the street, those who don't perceive themselves as model material. Someone from my school became a model, I'm British and her parents are Chinese immigrants. She was "spotted" while on a day trip in London, because her shop-owning parents weren't sending her to modelling agencies and paying her to attend shows, and they weren't pleased when she said she wanted to pursue it as a career.
zeopower6
Member
Yeah, that much is true. Sometimes the models who have it 'run in the family' are the 'Victoria Beckham's kids' types who just sort of get forced into it at an early age while the ones that are a bit 'different' are the ones who are kind of just around some place shopping when a photographer or agent sees them and realizes they have potential or whatever.
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