Why is racism in high fashion still wildly accepted?
- Thread starter Ken Masters
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Sorry, it's a pet peeve.
bigboss370
Member
wat
freenudemacusers
Member
it's a fairly accurate assessment of luxury growth, which is very substantial in areas like China and UAE.
And those army uniforms looks awful. They are sooooo 1950.
What do you mean "wat"? I stated how the luxury market has shifted and the knock-on effect it's had on marketing.
Happy to explain further if you're actually interested in consumer trends from these emerging markets and why brands are so eager to cater to them. Spoiler: they're spending way more money on this stuff compared to westerners.
triplestation
Member
It sure does say something about preference
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Yeah, that was such bullshit. Video games have you play as magic mushroom eating plumbers, space marines, and god-killing teenagers, but god forbid you're asked to suspend your disbelief as a black man.
Thread is a graveyard.
But doesn't skin tone determine what colours to wear, be it make up or clothes, what skin and hair products to use, etc.? I don't think the industry is racist per se, but when the majority of women who have enough money to consume fashion are white, I guess it makes sense to hire white models.
That said, I've been seeing more and more black models. Hispanic and asian, not so much.
But doesn't skin tone determine what colours to wear, be it make up or clothes, what skin and hair products to use, etc.? I don't think the industry is racist per se, but when the majority of women who have enough money to consume fashion are white, I guess it makes sense to hire white models.
That said, I've been seeing more and more black models. Hispanic and asian, not so much.
FortuneFaded
Member
Artists prefer a blanc canvas.
Ken Masters
Banned
What kinda percentage?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I'm sure it seems strange from a non-American perspective, but institutionalized racism was an important part of young America's balanced breakfast and continues to show up in its diet, so Americans tend to dwell on it.
I don't think they have fashion in Europe.
bigboss370
Member
the contention point is you calling people yellow and referring to western caucasians as "smart consumers" as oppose to other ehtnicities.
Ahh, okay.
The 'black/brown/yellow' comment was suppose to be satire against the way people in this thread are throwing around words like 'white' and 'black' without realising a 'white' westerner is miles different to a 'white' Russian (the person, not the delicious alcoholic beverage). The point being, a white consumer from London is miles different to a white consumer from Russia, just as a black consumer from New York is miles different to a black consumer in Nigeria.
White/black is far too board of a distinction to intelligently discuss the impacts of high fashion imagery because it's a worldwide puzzle, not a western one. To properly break down the issue you need to delve into larger cultural issues, not just colour of skin issues. In hindsight, I probably didn't get the nuance across in my post, so apologies if it caused offence.
As for 'smart consumers' - that's an industry term. It doesn't mean someone of a higher intelligence, it means someone who will buy a small amount of luxury items and make sure they can mix them in with several outfits made up of mostly mid-range items. This is something you typically see with western and, as of lately, Chinese consumers (who are very quickly catching up to the west in terms of fashion literacy).
The high net worth Nigerians, Russians, Arabs (and also more and more Brazilians) are far more 'blingy', meaning they chase the most luxurious, expensive, unique items money can buy and wear it head-to-toe. They don't come from a culture with an extensive high end heritage or an established upper class lifestyle, so they want to import it wholesale from the western world. The luxury industry is doing everything they can to capitalise on this and it's reflected more and more in their imagery.
I'm certainly not a fashion industry scholar, but I definitely feel there is a fair amount of racism there. In many industries, truthfully.
I think some people are viewing racism in very binary terms. It's either, all out, KKK/Neo Nazi level racism, or none at all. Over the past few hundred years, racism has evolved, and branched out in different ways. It's not as in your face as it once was, and that, I feel, makes it a lot more dangerous. Institutionalized racism, subtle racism, culturally accepted stereotyping and generalizations are all different forms of it. People don't have to go around wearing white sheets or burning crosses on people's lawns to be racist.
As far as fashion goes, I think we've all addressed that in the US (I can only speak on the US, because that's where I'm from, and have the most experience with), white is the default in pretty much all forms of media/art. Film, television, video games, literature, etc. If it's not expressly stated in a book, it's assumed that the protagonists are white. Hell, even when it is expressly stated (like Rue in the Hunger Games), many people just assume that the character is white. In film, television, and video games, which is a visual medium, the vast majority of protagonists are white, while minorities tend to fall into supporting roles most of the time, with very few exceptions.
I have my issues with FOX, but I have to give them credit that when it comes to diversity, their shows tend to have a nice mix. Brooklyn Nine Nine, Sleepy Hollow, Almost Human, etc. Not only do they have a diverse cast, they actually treat the characters like characters, and not like stereotypes. Most of the time, when a show has a representation of a minority, it's horribly stereotypical. But I digress.
Back to my main point of white as default: producers of clothing, film, television, etc, are under the impression that their audience cannot relate to "the other." They seem to think that if the main character of a show/movie/book/game/etc is a minority, their white audience will balk and go elsewhere. I'd personally find that incredibly offensive if I were a non-minority. The industry has decided that you are all racist, and are pandering to your racism by only presenting you with one culture, and, whether purposefully, or out of ignorance, demonizing and stereotyping the other cultures/races. It breeds misunderstanding and fear/ignorance of what that culture is really like. There have been examples of that ignorance in this very thread.
Most of us can relate to human beings. Regardless of nationality, race, ethnicity, what have you. The person is more important that the surface aspect of who they are. Seeing a black, white, Asian, Latin, etc, person, wearing certain clothing, or being a lead character in a show, has no bearing on most people's purchasing decisions, but the suits that run these companies have gotten it into their heads that that is the case.
Fashion is notoriously insular, and superficial, and I feel that, yes, because of underlying racism, minorities are under-represented. Just because the racism may not be malicious or intentional, doesn't make it any less racist in my book.
I don't know if I've actually made my point or not. Sorry.
EDIT:
The thing is, institutionalized racism is still a huge part of American culture, and that's precisely the problem, and precisely why the discussion of racism is occurring more and more. The same thing with sexism. Racism and Sexism are a huge part of American culture, and has been for many, many decades. It wasn't wiped out because the 60's happened. It's still a nasty part of our present day world, and thankfully, people of all races and genders are realizing this and starting to speak up about it. Nobody is dwelling on anything. We are talking about events that are affecting lives in the here and now, not just "ancient history."
I think some people are viewing racism in very binary terms. It's either, all out, KKK/Neo Nazi level racism, or none at all. Over the past few hundred years, racism has evolved, and branched out in different ways. It's not as in your face as it once was, and that, I feel, makes it a lot more dangerous. Institutionalized racism, subtle racism, culturally accepted stereotyping and generalizations are all different forms of it. People don't have to go around wearing white sheets or burning crosses on people's lawns to be racist.
As far as fashion goes, I think we've all addressed that in the US (I can only speak on the US, because that's where I'm from, and have the most experience with), white is the default in pretty much all forms of media/art. Film, television, video games, literature, etc. If it's not expressly stated in a book, it's assumed that the protagonists are white. Hell, even when it is expressly stated (like Rue in the Hunger Games), many people just assume that the character is white. In film, television, and video games, which is a visual medium, the vast majority of protagonists are white, while minorities tend to fall into supporting roles most of the time, with very few exceptions.
I have my issues with FOX, but I have to give them credit that when it comes to diversity, their shows tend to have a nice mix. Brooklyn Nine Nine, Sleepy Hollow, Almost Human, etc. Not only do they have a diverse cast, they actually treat the characters like characters, and not like stereotypes. Most of the time, when a show has a representation of a minority, it's horribly stereotypical. But I digress.
Back to my main point of white as default: producers of clothing, film, television, etc, are under the impression that their audience cannot relate to "the other." They seem to think that if the main character of a show/movie/book/game/etc is a minority, their white audience will balk and go elsewhere. I'd personally find that incredibly offensive if I were a non-minority. The industry has decided that you are all racist, and are pandering to your racism by only presenting you with one culture, and, whether purposefully, or out of ignorance, demonizing and stereotyping the other cultures/races. It breeds misunderstanding and fear/ignorance of what that culture is really like. There have been examples of that ignorance in this very thread.
Most of us can relate to human beings. Regardless of nationality, race, ethnicity, what have you. The person is more important that the surface aspect of who they are. Seeing a black, white, Asian, Latin, etc, person, wearing certain clothing, or being a lead character in a show, has no bearing on most people's purchasing decisions, but the suits that run these companies have gotten it into their heads that that is the case.
Fashion is notoriously insular, and superficial, and I feel that, yes, because of underlying racism, minorities are under-represented. Just because the racism may not be malicious or intentional, doesn't make it any less racist in my book.
I don't know if I've actually made my point or not. Sorry.
EDIT:
The thing is, institutionalized racism is still a huge part of American culture, and that's precisely the problem, and precisely why the discussion of racism is occurring more and more. The same thing with sexism. Racism and Sexism are a huge part of American culture, and has been for many, many decades. It wasn't wiped out because the 60's happened. It's still a nasty part of our present day world, and thankfully, people of all races and genders are realizing this and starting to speak up about it. Nobody is dwelling on anything. We are talking about events that are affecting lives in the here and now, not just "ancient history."
Delsin is a weird example. He's supposed to be Native American but he doesn't look it at all. Neither does his brother. Wouldn't be an issue except Betty (a minor character and a part of his tribe) looks very much Native American. It's like the main characters are Native American in name only, with no explanation why they look so white (biracial parents or something).
Native Americans can look white. They're often an 'invisible' minority.
Ken Masters
Banned
Because they wanted a character that would sell, would have been much braver of them going with original design
crazy monkey
Banned
and former MISS WORLD.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
I don't know if people go "wild" for it but we are talking about a predominantly white industry which as part of its nature is concerned with the superficial. I don't find it surprising, really.
Who's going to challenge it? It doesn't seem like it'd be high on the lists of grievances from the African American community with respect to racism or discrimination, even if the specific topic was the workplace in the fashion industry, and I expect anyone that practices it would use a but-what-about-these-black-supermodels defense.
Who's going to challenge it? It doesn't seem like it'd be high on the lists of grievances from the African American community with respect to racism or discrimination, even if the specific topic was the workplace in the fashion industry, and I expect anyone that practices it would use a but-what-about-these-black-supermodels defense.
edmuretully
Banned
because people who are tall and fair-skinned are more accepted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I5sCa090rw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I5sCa090rw
Hah, everything is racism these days.
Yup. I'm a graphic designer and nobody wants me to use black people in their brochures, websites etc. It still doesn't mean that they are racist. If I have to read some fashion magazines, I prefer white models too. Just deal with it.
Yup. I'm a graphic designer and nobody wants me to use black people in their brochures, websites etc. It still doesn't mean that they are racist. If I have to read some fashion magazines, I prefer white models too. Just deal with it.
mullet2000
Member
As someone who grew up in an area with a high percentage of native Canadians in my area, Delsin looks Native just fine.
His brother a little less so, for sure. He himself does though. Keep in mind a very large number of the native population is mixed at this point.
Fenderputty
Banned
I didn't catch this thread until today and ive read from page one. I kept hoping it would get better as the purge continued but alas ...
Ken Masters
Banned
Wow
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Is your plan to go into quiet threads and start new shit for giggles
Ken Masters
Banned
Look at Bollywood in India, the actresses that are worshipped are lighter skinned then 90% of the population
Vermillion
Banned
Huh. Why do you prefer white models?
Fenderputty
Banned
I personally like how he adds, "just deal with it" as if discussing race topics is whining.
Truly. The same in Colombia. It's easy to forget the huge impacts that colonialism and the institutions that were created in those times have informed the development of entire cultures and nations. Makes you wonder how much more diverse the world could have been.
They can look white if they are mixed with white but native americans originally have a very distinct look different from europeans.
victreeb3l
Member
Dude you gotta see how messed up the skin lightening commercials are. For both men and women.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMPkYY49zik
This series of ads is also hilarious because of how overdramatic and ridiculous it is lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgx6xrc0gBs
Uhhhh...whaaaaaatttt
You do realize that there was substantial heterogeneity between tribes, right?
If you can point me to pictures from the 19th century where tribes had similar looks to europeans then I am willing to say I am wrong.
I always sort of appreciate these threads for rooting out some of the bad seeds on GAF.
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