Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!

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Superblatt said:
Just picked up a 20" BVM for $160 from a production studio here in Chicago. They told me they were firm on $200 until I walked in and negotiated it down. It's in fantastic shape with only 18,000 hours on it. Probably won't be able to hook it up until this weekend but I'm crazy pumped up. Will be looking to offload my '14" PVM if anyone in Chicago is looking. Pictures coming in the next few days...
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Do you or anyone else have any tips for finding these businesses that have PVM/BVMs and are trying to get rid of them? I BARELY ever see action on Craigslist, so eventually I paid top tollar on Craigslist. But I'd love to get another unit to possibly use with a cabinet or a backup. Not sure if there's any resource I'm missing, or maybe I should just look up these companies and try to find a sale.
 
Friend of Sonic said:
Do you or anyone else have any tips for finding these businesses that have PVM/BVMs and are trying to get rid of them? I BARELY ever see action on Craigslist, so eventually I paid top tollar on Craigslist. But I'd love to get another unit to possibly use with a cabinet or a backup. Not sure if there's any resource I'm missing, or maybe I should just look up these companies and try to find a sale.
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Best recommendation would be to look up local video production companies and ask them if they have any old monitors. I have a family friend and colleague who owns a large firm in Chicago that does this exactly, and she told me she had 4 PVMs they THREW AWAY last December. If I had only thought to call her earlier!

Btw, here's the pic of my new setup with the BVM. It looks amazing. This weekend I'll wire up my receiver so I can get sound. Can't wait.

4vp2cIe.jpg
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Nice setup!

EDIT: If anyone in the Phoenix AZ area needs shelving units, I have many DVD shelving units of various sizes. I'll give legit deals to Gafers, so PM me.
 
does anyone have or know about the Sharp CR25S10 CRT TV? does anyone know if it has component inputs? I'm trying to find a manual but I must suck because the user manuals don't say anything.
 
Emperor Bohe said:
does anyone have or know about the Sharp CR25S10 CRT TV? does anyone know if it has component inputs? I'm trying to find a manual but I must suck because the user manuals don't say anything.
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Nope, 2 composite inputs is all it has. Pretty much bottom of the barrel for retro gaming.
 
So I'm experiencing a weird issue with the BVM I picked up a few days ago. When I turn it on, there are wavy lines which is clearly bad interference of some sort. This exact same interference is visible when I turn on my NES or SNES via RGB.

But, here's the weird part. If I wait 5-7 minutes it goes away. It's almost like the BVM needs to warm up. What could be the issue here? Am I missing something obvious in the settings? Or, am I never supposed to turn it off?
 
Superblatt said:
So I'm experiencing a weird issue with the BVM I picked up a few days ago. When I turn it on, there are wavy lines which is clearly bad interference of some sort. This exact same interference is visible when I turn on my NES or SNES via RGB.

But, here's the weird part. If I wait 5-7 minutes it goes away. It's almost like the BVM needs to warm up. What could be the issue here? Am I missing something obvious in the settings? Or, am I never supposed to turn it off?
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Can you post pics of it or a video? Do you get it with no consoles connected or powered on?
Are you using official nintendo power supplies?
 
HaL64 said:
Can you post pics of it or a video? Do you get it with no consoles connected or powered on?
Are you using official nintendo power supplies?
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Yes, I am using official Nintendo power supplies, but I'm seeing this before I even turn on a system.

Pictures below. I tried to replicate what I see when I first turn it on, and then what I see once I turn on the NES via RGB. Keep in mind that this DOES go away in 5-10 minutes, maybe longer and then after that the picture looks great. I honestly don't know what I did wrong on hooking it up. I have the BNC connectors hooked up to the RGB slot (slot 6 for me) on the back of the BVM. Pictures below are in chronological order.

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<a href="http://imgur.com/4GUJDq7"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/4GUJDq7.jpg" title="Hosted by imgur.com"/></a>
PS4ZNFx.jpg
WH5VZvP.jpg
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Woah. That looks terrible.

You sure you are using a correct line of RGB SCART and BNC adapters? That shit aint normal.

That most definitely is not an issue with the console - that's your cables or, in most likelihood, your display.
 
richisawesome said:
Woah. That looks terrible.

You sure you are using a correct line of RGB SCART and BNC adapters? That shit aint normal.

That most definitely is not an issue with the console - that's your cables or, in most likelihood, your display.
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I know it's not the systems OR the cables as everything ran fine on my 14" PVM. As I stated earlier, this issue goes away 100% if I wait 10 minutes. This MUST be a setting issue on the BVM. Ideas, anyone?
 
Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask about this stuff, but I figured you guys would probably know the most about it:

If I'm going to do an RGB mod that requires soldering, what sort of soldering iron and solder would be recommended? I wanna do everything from RGB modding my SNES to putting together a supergun at some point... but I don't have any equipment as of right now.
 
Superblatt said:
I know it's not the systems OR the cables as everything ran fine on my 14" PVM. As I stated earlier, this issue goes away 100% if I wait 10 minutes. This MUST be a setting issue on the BVM. Ideas, anyone?
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I have not got a clue. I've never seen those kind of lines before on PVMs or on RGB CRTs.

It's bizarre.

Chacranajxy said:
Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask about this stuff, but I figured you guys would probably know the most about it:

If I'm going to do an RGB mod that requires soldering, what sort of soldering iron and solder would be recommended? I wanna do everything from RGB modding my SNES to putting together a supergun at some point... but I don't have any equipment as of right now.
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In my experience, get a low temp soldering iron (25w is mine) and test on a few items first. Get some fine point ends from amazon (they're cheap), but make sure they're the same wattage as you won't get an even heat.

Practice is what you need though. I used to be terrible at it - but now, my hand is dead steady. You just need confidence. Do NOT start with something expensive. Go to your local hardware store, buy a load of shit, and experiment.

Nowadays, soldering a new EEPROM or a SNES mod is easy as fuck - but it took a good amount of practice. Also, the less solder you use the better. Make a firm, decent connection the first time and you're sorted. Tip your wires first!!

edit: if you're soldering direct onto a PCB (making repros) you may need a higher temp iron, but for all hardware based mods, a 25/30w is more than adequate. if anyone wants to correct me, feel fine to do so.
 
richisawesome said:
edit: if you're soldering direct onto a PCB (making repros) you may need a higher temp iron, but for all hardware based mods, a 25/30w is more than adequate. if anyone wants to correct me, feel fine to do so.
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Most advanced thing I'd be doing would just be installing mod chips.
 
Chacranajxy said:
Most advanced thing I'd be doing would just be installing mod chips.
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Then my advice still stands.

Installed many saturn and PS1 chips using my trusty £10 25w iron and fine tips. Just.....do other mods first. Most modchips use very fine points and require pin-lifting. If you fuck it up, it's hard to rectify. Just experiment first.

My usual advice is to try building an LCD array or some direct audio outputs for a device (Game Boy). If you're in the UK, the parts from maplin cost merely a tenner (less, if you're using a game boy!). It's a great thing to experiment with.

As an example, I was out of the modding scene for years, and to get back into this I did this:

jb15UzrUicD12l_e.jpg


Not a particularly hard mod - but it got me back into the game. Start simple, work your way up.
 
Yeah, I'll probably try dicking around with a controller and wiring up arcade buttons to it. I've got some trash laying around that I can probably sacrifice to this cause.
 
Chacranajxy said:
Yeah, I'll probably try dicking around with a controller and wiring up arcade buttons to it. I've got some trash laying around that I can probably sacrifice to this cause.
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Yeah! My first mod was wiring up a SNES pad with a USB PCB. Was a bit hacky, was a bit shit, but either way it worked alright!

The issue is that usually to begin with you're terrified of making a mistake. Eventually you get over that and it's like, fuck - this is easy. In fact, on a similar point (as much as some posters will hate me) I just ordered a load of EEPROM chips with SNES rom hacks on them to then solder in as repros. It's awesome.
 
Superblatt said:
With only 18,000 hours?
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I'd say it's not a failure because of usage, but because of age. Maybe a faulty, leaky capacitor slow to charge somewhere? A common failure with CRT is a delayed picture at boot: the screen takes longer and longer to start, several minutes, then fails to start at all. Your problem, while different, may be related. In any case this is not something you can fix yourself unless you know what you are doing. You are better off calling the TV repair man who has tools to check stuff like this.

Don't even try to open it. Even unplugged, CRTs store some deadly current. And it's not an hyperbole.
 
Khaz said:
I'd say it's not a failure because of usage, but because of age. Maybe a faulty, leaky capacitor slow to charge somewhere? A common failure with CRT is a delayed picture at boot: the screen takes longer and longer to start, several minutes, then fails to start at all. Your problem, while different, may be related. In any case this is not something you can fix yourself unless you know what you are doing. You are better off calling the TV repair man who has tools to check stuff like this.

Don't even try to open it. Even unplugged, CRTs store some deadly current. And it's not an hyperbole.
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Fantastic. That means I bought a dud. Lovely.
 
Peagles said:
I thought it was supposed to be in excellent shape? Can you get a refund?
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I doubt it. I just checked and it does say 18,000 hours. Physically looks great. Once it warms up the issue goes away...but it's obviously a bad sign. I knew I should never have bought this in the first place. Gut feeling was it was too good to be true.
 
Khaz said:
I'd say it's not a failure because of usage, but because of age. Maybe a faulty, leaky capacitor slow to charge somewhere? A common failure with CRT is a delayed picture at boot: the screen takes longer and longer to start, several minutes, then fails to start at all. Your problem, while different, may be related. In any case this is not something you can fix yourself unless you know what you are doing. You are better off calling the TV repair man who has tools to check stuff like this.

Don't even try to open it. Even unplugged, CRTs store some deadly current. And it's not an hyperbole.
Click to expand...

Yup, you can die working on a crt.
 
richisawesome said:
Yeah! My first mod was wiring up a SNES pad with a USB PCB. Was a bit hacky, was a bit shit, but either way it worked alright!

The issue is that usually to begin with you're terrified of making a mistake. Eventually you get over that and it's like, fuck - this is easy. In fact, on a similar point (as much as some posters will hate me) I just ordered a load of EEPROM chips with SNES rom hacks on them to then solder in as repros. It's awesome.
Click to expand...

Dammit my first hack was soldering one of these retrousb chip in an SNES pad too! definitely a wonky job, I ain't opening that controller ever again lol.

This is good advice, definitely mess around with old electronics, solder random stuff on it, unsolder chips, etc. You will get to know your tools and build up confidence and steady hands. You won't only need a soldering iron, you will want desoldering copper braid and/or pump, pliers of various sizes and use, some flux (that magical liquid which turns a hot mess into a dream job) and other stuff I don't think of yet. Oh and a third hand. And a fourth. So many times I wished I had someone to hold that damn cable while I was busy with the soldering iron in one hand and the lead in the other, over an unstable tiny board that wouldn't stop wobbling as I was breathing over it.

My advice would be to do it like batman: use prep time. Read about your project again and again, mentally process what you have to do at each steps, visualise how you would do it with your hands, what tools, etc. At first I was eager to get on it and have things done, using the how-to as a step-by-step process that I could follow blindly. I ended up forgetting something crucial most of the time because no matter how detailed the procedure is, there is always something unclear, or missing.
 
Khaz said:
My advice would be to do it like batman
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This is how I started out, and to some extent how I still work, even though I've done a lot of projects now. I've never done any lasting damage even if I have wired the odd thing wrong on occasion. It's good advice.
 
Superblatt said:
I doubt it. I just checked and it does say 18,000 hours. Physically looks great. Once it warms up the issue goes away...but it's obviously a bad sign. I knew I should never have bought this in the first place. Gut feeling was it was too good to be true.
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Well if they new this was a problem before selling it to you, they are dicks.
Either way, you should get it recapped. Call a tv repair man. They can recap for you.
The cost can vary there. I know of of a guy in Paxton, IL who could recap arcade monitors for cheap. He might be able to help.
 
HaL64 said:
Well if they new this was a problem before selling it to you, they are dicks.
Either way, you should get it recapped. Call a tv repair man. They can recap for you.
The cost can vary there. I know of of a guy in Paxton, IL who could recap arcade monitors for cheap. He might be able to help.
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Just sent you a pm. I need options.
 
Dwayne said:
Isn't 18,000 hours quite a long time? Like it was turned on 40 working hours a week for 8+ years.

I agree with the earlier conclusion, just an old capacitor that takes some time to warm up.
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Everything I've read says 18,000 is not much. Many BVMs have over 100,000 hours and are still going strong.
 
So, I have a BNC--> SCART breakout cable for the PVM, but the one I bought is so dang short. What's the best option for extending it? I tried finding some female-> male BNC cables to work as an extension, but I was having trouble locating them.
 
Friend of Sonic said:
So, I have a BNC--> SCART breakout cable for the PVM, but the one I bought is so dang short. What's the best option for extending it? I tried finding some female-> male BNC cables to work as an extension, but I was having trouble locating them.
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I run a long SCART cable between mine and my switch, works a dream. Are you using a switch or just a single console?
 
Peagles said:
I run a long SCART cable between mine and my switch, works a dream. Are you using a switch or just a single console?
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I am using a switch, so maybe the best thing is to find a female-Male cord. Good call ! It irks me the seller I bought from didn't make it a 6 foot cable, especially with how much it costs, but oh well.
 
Friend of Sonic said:
I am using a switch, so maybe the best thing is to find a female-Male cord. Good call ! It irks me the seller I bought from didn't make it a 6 foot cable, especially with how much it costs, but oh well.
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Did you get a female end SCART to BNC or the male end one? Mine's female so I just run a male male SCART cable to my switch which is also female. I'm sure a female male SCART cable is find-able but male male is common as muck, fortunately for me.
 
Wished people would sell SCART to RCA cables instead. Putting BNC ends on those cables is very unpractical and prevents you from using it with component switches and other non-PVM equipment, while RCA to BNC adapters are cheap and easy to find. I have a ton of these things I bought for 75 cents each.
 
antibolo said:
Wished people would sell SCART to RCA cables instead. Using BNC directly is very unpractical and prevents you from using it with component switches, while RCA to BNC adapters are cheap and easy to find.
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considering the vast majority of people are using these specifically with hardware that accepts bnc connecters that makes it kinda pointless. not to mention bnc to rca adapters are just as cheap as rca to bnc.
 
televator said:
It takes 480p? Hmmmm.... interesting. It doesn't deinterlace unless you tell it to?

This set interests me more than the pvms. The size and features are atractive.
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Not to mention that the set itself is a lot less ugly than the PVMs. I know these are for professional use, but that doesn't mean it's gotta look like butt.
 
ZealousD said:
SNES mini has best RGB output but you have to mod it to do it.
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Bingo. I made a lot of stupid console buying decisions as a kid... and when I discovered S-video, I felt like I made a stupid decision buying the SNES mini.

Well, look who has the last laugh now, former me!
 
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