Most systems don't require mods to use SCART output. The PC Engine stuff and the NES certainly do, though.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Ban Puncher
Member
I need an RGB 21 pin JPN cable for a Master System I picked up last week. Works with my Mega Drive/Genesis cable but the separate 3.5mm jack for audio means I get no sound. Sent an email off to retro_console_accessories a few days ago to see if an 8-pin DIN mono MD cable would be something they would stock.
lostinblue
Banned
They do, But I also haven't seen them on sale for years.
I only see HDMI on sale these days.
I have a Master System cable from her, she definitely used to make them.
Ban Puncher
Member
I'll continue to lurk the eBay store then.
baphomet
Member
Yea, I bought one within the past few weeks.
Holly shit. I just did a search. I never thought they'd become a rarity.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Has retro_console_accessories ever sold a PS1 RGB cable with separate audio jacks? Had some sync issues playing a game yesterday, and figured that yeah, it's time to get something other than some bottom of the barrel crap. But at the same time, I dunno if running audio through the XRGB's RGB port is going to degrade it.
Official first party AV cables for any console are pretty much impossible to find after the first few years of its lifespan. After that you have to make due with low quality knock-offs, or custom-made ones.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I got a brand new, boxed set directly from the Nintendo online store just a few months ago for ~$20 (which I still thought was a little high, but whatev), but I just checked now and it seems as if they're sold out.
Got my 1st party PS3 component cables from Best Buy even more recently than that, but it seems as if they're sold out of that now too. Hmm.
Polioliolio
Member
If I file down the square plastic ends, can I use my Wii Component cables on my Super Famicom?
baphomet
Member
Lol, no.
IrishNinja
Member
you never know until you try~
Polioliolio
Member
So that unique shape isn't just to get me to buy new cables from Nintendo?
Because Top Loading NES to Gamecube all share the same AV cable, at least.
edit: What cables do I need, my homies... Clue a fella in.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Those connectors have different pin layouts and carry different signals.
AV Famicom / SNES / N64 / GCN
Wii / Wii U
The old systems don't output the YPbPr signals used for component video. (Remember that the GCN had a separate video out port for component.)
Going to have to be more specific as to what you're trying to do.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
AV-Famicom won't carry S-video either.
Polioliolio
Member
Oh, thanks for the information.
Well I have a CRT with RGB component ports on it. I sort of imagined I could just pick up a component cable for the rgb-out-of-the-box-systems on the front page, but seems it might not be that simple.
RGB is not the same as component, even though the RCA jacks are coloured red, green and blue. You'd need a converter box to convert the RGB signal to YUV (component).
In America, RGB was not really a standard for consumer-grade TVs. If you plan on going RGB, you'll need SCART cables. Then, you'll either need a SCART-to-HDMI upscaler to plug it into an HDTV, or you'll need a special broadcast monitor like a PVM and have a SCART-to-BNC cable.
RGB is kind of madness if you're in America. You need to do a lot of research and buy special equipment if you planning on going with RGB.
RGB is kind of madness if you're in America. You need to do a lot of research and buy special equipment if you planning on going with RGB.
"RGB component" is ambiguous. As the others have already said, RGB and YCbCr (commonly referred to as "component") are not the same. No consumer TV in NTSC-land does that kind of RGB natively (ie. 15 kHz RGBs).
You can get a RGB to component active converter that will allow you to use any console that supports RGB into the component inputs of your CRT.
Polioliolio
Member
Okay.. this clears a lot of things up for me.
So I need the converter.. or a scart cable and scart compatible television or monitor.
You also need an RGB SCART cable for each system you want to use.
Don't worry. The rabbit hole never looks that deep and then oh god, oh god no, I'm falling help SOMEBODY HELP MEeEeEeEeEeEeeee...
I love it down here.
lostinblue
Banned
The cheap ones are everywhere but they lack shielding big time.
My GBS 8220 was very grainy and just loosing sync everytime... At first I thought the component in was burned, this because I had used RGBS and RGBHV modes before, never bothered with component, but since I plug so many stuff onto the TV and only have one input... Why not?
Then I asked a friend for his Wii component cables (gameware) and they are mighty fine.
But game doesn't sell them anymore, all they sell now is this:
http://www.game.co.uk/en/gameware-c...=&categoryIdentifier=10456&attributeValue1=63
Conspicuously cheap might I also add, but I might bite.
It sucks balls!
I can't find proper RGB cables for PSone and PS2 too, mine is too thin.
I think retro console cable retailers don't consider them retro enough to build cables for them already or something.
I just bought official Wii component cables for 10USD here in Hong Kong! Store still seemed to have lots left.
Shadow Hog
Member
I've used one set of PS2 and two sets of Wii component cables from Monoprice. Aside from one of the Wii ones having some audio crackling issues, I've not really noticed any problems. *shrug*
Pretty sure retro_console_accessories on eBay does do PS1 RGB SCART cables every now and then.
DracoBlade
Member
I just got this sucker along with retro_console_accessories cables (after watching Adam Koralik's video) and highly recommend it!
What have I been missing all my life!? I had no idea the visual quality of SCART RGB let alone when its upscaled to HDMI...wow. I'll post some bad photos comparing S-Video and this converters performance if people are interested in seeing say Super Nintendo or Neo Geo CD games would look like.
lostinblue
Banned
Mine work on any TV mostly fine, a little noise but fine. It's the scaler board that dislikes them.
I was thinking specialized sites with store, I tend to avoid ebay for custom stuff but yeah, you are right, I should delve into that.
I just got this sucker along with retro_console_accessories cables (after watching Adam Koralik's video) and highly recommend it!
What have I been missing all my life!? I had no idea the visual quality of SCART RGB let alone when its upscaled to HDMI...wow. I'll post some bad photos comparing S-Video and this converters performance if people are interested in seeing say Super Nintendo or Neo Geo CD games would look like.
I don't mean to be a dick, but that scaler is demonstrated in this video to be very weak. It smudges scrolling images. It appears to me that dynamic resolution takes a dive on it.
Bar81
Member
What would you pick Euro spec RGB cables versus JP spec RGB cables? Mine are all JP spec and with the XRGB Mini it's pretty straightforward to play on a current gen TV.
SCART (ie. Euro) is the de facto standard. Only those XRGB devices come with JP21 input. If you have anything else than a XRGB there is no point in ever bothering with JP21.
Yes, I have one of her "sync on luma" Playstation cables.
theSlacker
Member
Yeah, I have no idea why that particular video is so highly rated, I assume it's because he has a following and a lot of other videos that are informative as well. Not that I don't see the value of those converter boxes for people that don't have the room/want to find an natively RGB capable television, but making claims that those specific boxes that he is backing in that video are just as good or better then playing on "an old big fat tv" or that going straight scart into a tv would "never look this good" is factually wrong.
Not saying that you should regret your purchase, DracoBlade, since it is defiantly better then going component into a modern tv, just commenting on the video. That converter box is a good choice for people that don't want to pay a ton for a Micomsoft one, like the framemeister, and is also easier to use.
I'd love to know how this device compares with the one that TheWraith bought recently (I have also ordered one BTW, it's on its way to me). Of course, none of these will be as good as an XRGB mini, but for casual uses they are worth checking out (in my case I am interested in them for capture purposes, with an Elgato Game Capture HD).
Bar81
Member
de facto standard in Europe, but obviously not in Japan where the systems are actually designed and made.
No because JP21 is a mostly historical standard, it's basically the Japanese equivalent of EGA. Japan stopped using it a while ago. On the other hand SCART is still a relevant standard, Europe still puts SCART inputs on their TVs.
Yeah, I generally like the information that adam provides on games and hystorical accounts on systems, but his technical information can be lacking. Its just like you said in this case. His statements about this HDMI upscaler being better than going the SCART route and/or using a CRT is completely off base.
Its a cheap way to convert RGB to an HDMI standard signal at the loss of degraded picture quality. People shouldn't expect too much more than that.
Polioliolio
Member
So since I don't have the room or money right now to go whole hog on the upscaling thing I bought one of these...
got it in today, and surprise...doesn't work...audio sounds good but the image isn't holding and keeps jumping.
Tried with a PCE Duo-R and Genny Model 2....
Any thoughts or ideas should I try to tinker with it, or wait for China to send me another one?!!?
I will say the few times the image stayed still it did look nice.
Ew, I tried one of these once (something similar). It was a piece of crap. It only displayed in black and white and had some other issues. Sent it straight back to amazon and got my money back.
Shadow Hog
Member
I could almost understand the point of a device like that if it supported S-Video, since ports for those are getting harder to come by. But composite-only?
DracoBlade
Member
No no your no dick lol. To be honest I haven't really noticed myself any problems of that sort (though they are probably there) playing SNES/NEO GEO but again I've just started my dive into RGB/SCART and for the price I would still recommend it. In the future I may look into other options though I really wanted to start Lord Darcia. Also the video actually betrays how it looks in real life due to youtube/capture render methods I'd imagine.
I would definitely consider myself casual in the RGB game at the moment, and there's no way in hell I'll be able to afford frameisters anytime soon lol. I'll try to post some pics when I can and maybe you guys can evaluate it from there.
Friend of Sonic
Member
Yep, I got a PS1 one anticipation of the PSIso project or whatever it's called taking off.
Have you considered getting a PVM?
Does anyone have experience with RGB on PS1/PS2? I'm still trying to figure out which cables I need to get RGB from my PS2 onto a Sony PVM.
According to RetroRGB: "None of the Playstation systems output csync. If you only plan on using RGB SCART (240p + 480i), you'll need to add a sync stripper to the cable."
Retrogamingcables sells a SCART to BNC adapter that has a built-in sync stripper, but has specific power requirements for the stripper to work: "Requires a EuroSCART which is wired for +5 to +12 volts on pin 8 to power up the LM1881 sync stripper circuit. Otherwise the adapter will not work". Where would I find such a thing?
Is it even worth going through all this trouble? Plugging in a component cable would be a heck of a lot easier, but I'm not sure if the image quality would suffer.
According to RetroRGB: "None of the Playstation systems output csync. If you only plan on using RGB SCART (240p + 480i), you'll need to add a sync stripper to the cable."
Retrogamingcables sells a SCART to BNC adapter that has a built-in sync stripper, but has specific power requirements for the stripper to work: "Requires a EuroSCART which is wired for +5 to +12 volts on pin 8 to power up the LM1881 sync stripper circuit. Otherwise the adapter will not work". Where would I find such a thing?
Is it even worth going through all this trouble? Plugging in a component cable would be a heck of a lot easier, but I'm not sure if the image quality would suffer.
Thanks! This factoid was unknown to me, so i contacted the maker of the Hanzo, he cant help me with that product at the moment, can anyone else suggest a VGA>Component sync combiner?
theSlacker
Member
I'm pretty sure that that retrorgb article is only talking about csync. There are a lot of monitors that will only accept csync so that stuff about needing a sync stripper only applies to you if you have one of those moniters. As far as I know Sony PVM and BVM accept all kinds of sync and not just csync so do not require a stripper. Likewise if you have a PVM then you don't need to get that scart to BNC cable that has the built in stripper, just the normal one. Got your PVM model number so I can check to make absolutely sure?
The only thing to look out for with the ps1 RGB cables is if you want to play light gun games, where you will need a special one that you can plug the light gun into. If not then I think that ebay seller has a bunch that should work.
Edit: Checked around and guess I was mistaken, many BVMs and PVMs may require sync strippers for certain things so really would need the model of yours to know.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Component gives you slightly worse color, but it does allow for higher resolutions.
If you're playing a 480p PS2 game, then component is better.
If you're playing a 240p/480i game, then RGB is better.
Dunno what cable you should get. I picked up a JP format cable from retro_console_accessories and it works fine with an XRGB.
baphomet
Member
Wait, If you already have a Hanzo, a Kenzei is the sync combiner. I think I wrote that wrong. Same guy makes them though. I actually just got my Dreamcast running through my mini a few days back. Looks and works great.
Nimlothaule
Neo Member
People say there is difference between the quality of color on component vs. RGB, but I am hard pressed to notice a difference myself. I would describe the difference as theoretical at best. I have used the component output on PS2 with a PVM and 240p content looks as good as RGB.
I recommend the component cable out of shear practicality. You will need to buy BNC endpoints in order to plug the ends the cable in, but it maybe easier and cheaper than using SCART/RGB21. Also the component cable can technically be used to output RGB, but since it is Sync-On-Green, its pretty much useless.
This is blatantly wrong, you should not use a sync stripper unless your target output really can't deal with a non pure sync signal. I have never used any sync stripper at all with my PVM.
I don't even know why retrogamingcables sells a SCART to BNC cable with a built-in sync stripper, that seems completely pointless, and can potentially cause you problems in the future if your source device does not provide a +5V power input (ie. NTSC Saturn). Do not buy that!
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