Persona Community Thread |OT5| Pull up a chair! [NO PQ OR P4U SPOILERS!]

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Lemstar said:
Money-saving protip for Americans: get in on this:

gcu2.jpg
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I already am. ;)
 
Spectrasonic said:
This holiday season is going to be awesome.

Persona 4 Ultimax
Persona Q
Kingdom Hearts 2.5
Halo 1-4 Remastered
Last of Us Remastered
Dragon Age: Inquisition
Destiny
Evolve
Batman: Arkham Knight
Dangan Ronpa 2

That's a lot of games... and a lot of money.
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My list is similar to yours. I'm actually more pressed for time than I am for the money to be quite honest. As much as I'd love to be able to play all of these, my bachelor's comes first, I'm always stacked with work to do. This is the only reason why I miss my full time working days lol.
 
Acid08 said:
Fuse Black Frost for ultimate destruction.
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Haha I died on the boss so I just went and did that. :P

I love that you can rebuy persona's. It saved me from having to go grind for them.

Anyway, I've been using Eligor for awhile because he helped me easily beat two dungeons. Now it's time to try out Black Frost!
 
Canon said:
So is it a mystery who the English voice actor for Naoto is in Persona 4 (game)? I hope she comes back for Persona Q.
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As far as I know, Naoto's VA is still unconfirmed. But she sounds an awful lot like Nicole Karrer to me (I think the strongest evidence is her performance as Morgan from Fire Emblem Awakening)
 
names2hard4you said:
Does anyone mind explaining this to me, I've always wondered why VAs aren't credited in games sometimes (yet we are made sit through huge lists of developer personnel). Do the VAs not want to be credited?
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I'm not sure about the details but it has to do with her being part of a union. At least that's what I've gathered from listening to the previous slink podcasts.
 
names2hard4you said:
Does anyone mind explaining this to me, I've always wondered why VAs aren't credited in games sometimes (yet we are made sit through huge lists of developer personnel). Do the VAs not want to be credited?
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They're part of a union that tries to be 'fair.' So instead of a company hiring a VA only because they like the VA's previous works, without a name, the company would have to give everyone a shot at the position.
 
Hmm I see it makes sense, thanks for the clarification guys. Well at the end of the day, these people still get their pay checks (I would assume lol!) , and we get our games and that's what really matters.
 
names2hard4you said:
Does anyone mind explaining this to me, I've always wondered why VAs aren't credited in games sometimes (yet we are made sit through huge lists of developer personnel). Do the VAs not want to be credited?
Click to expand...

It has to do with the fact that their non-union in terms of the VAs that work on them. Since they're not a union job, they are not required to do credit them. Where as if it was a union project they would have to credit all actors and actresses in credits. Along with what people have said above, as they want a bit more of a fair shake on it.

As for the second question, well this goes both ways. A lot of non-union I bet would like to be credited as it's pretty hard to get up in industry as you are non-union and you make a lot less compared to Union. But on the other hand, which I think is the case for Naoto's VA, is the fact that you can get in trouble with actors union if you do non-union projects (with the exception of Financial core who can work both). It's a complicated issue, and while I wish that we did know who Naoto's VA was, I respect her if she wanted to keep it secret because of the above listed reason.

I don't have much experience with this, but this is what I've gathered from looking around about this from time to time.
 
Two Episodes in ONE DAY.... CAN IT BE POSSIBLE?

(YES)



(click image for episode link)

There are instructions in the actual audio as to how to sync up your movie and the audio.

So kick back, put on your favorite Dark Tranquillity t-shirt, and bare witness to how damn fabulous Mitsuru is. #swaggerjacker
 
Great explanation Red, thanks. I can relate to the whole thing in a way, when I worked full time and did supervising for a few months, there were all these procedures and protocol that I had to abide by for legal reasons. Godspeed to her in particular, in my opinion she portrayed Naoto rather well. Wouldn't mind hearing her voice in other games.
 
Levito said:
Two Episodes in ONE DAY.... CAN IT BE POSSIBLE?

(YES)



(click image for episode link)

There are instructions in the actual audio as to how to sync up your movie and the audio.

So kick back, put on your favorite Dark Tranquillity t-shirt, and bare witness to how damn fabulous Mitsuru is. #swaggerjacker
Click to expand...

"I've been waiting for this!" Gonna dig into this for the insight on the fabulous.

Oh and for the rest of the commentary too of course.
 
CrazyTank940 said:
"I've been waiting for this!" Gonna dig into this for the insight on the fabulous.

Oh and for the rest of the commentary too of course.
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You've really been pushing the Mitsuru love lately, CT.

I think you've been around GAF too long. You and Buddha have become too embracing of the term waifu. :P
 
Levito said:
First podcast of today:



(click image for episode link)


Guess Who did this title card
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Oh man, that was a super cool episode. I really dug the reasonable and well informed arguments, and you guys were generally pretty fun to listen to. You were particularly on point with the cultural differences accounting for some of the more problematic aspects of his character (though poor writing in the camping trip is undeniable IMO). Overall, i'd say you guys covered pretty much everything I was hoping you'd cover. You should consider doing more of these character-based podcasts because they're pretty fun.

And yeah, I was the one brought up the P4G exclusive Yosuke/Kanji interactions. The interactions between Yosuke and Kanji are markedly less vitriolic/offensive in the Golden exclusive scenes. (To be specific, the beach, okina city, and valentine's day events) It's unclear if they were consciously trying to make the Yosuke/Kanji interactions less grating, but regardless, think Yosuke received an overall bump in quality in characterization in Golden.

In mean his rank 11 s.link is goddamn fantastic said:
jleaNEP.jpg
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One last thing. I hate to bring this up again but...

I'm still miffed that they cut out the romance with Yosuuke, because if Yosuke’s homophobia had to be in the game then I would rather it be a result of his massive insecurity, rather than it just being there to make Kanji the butt of some mean spirited jokes.

PS: Yosuke is the worst character of all time
 
I'm replaying through Persona 3 again after watching the movie, and I hate to say this, but after having beat the game before most of the story stuff feels tedious to me, and I try to skip dialogue as fast as I can.

It really makes me appreciate Golden's scene skip feature.
Bearing through it all was worth to see
Operation Babe Hunt again though. I really hope that makes it into Movie #2
 
Spectrasonic said:
They're part of a union that tries to be 'fair.' So instead of a company hiring a VA only because they like the VA's previous works, without a name, the company would have to give everyone a shot at the position.
Click to expand...

That's not really true at all. It's true that the reason is likely that she's unionized, but competition is not the issue at all.

Think of being non-union as being "off the grid:" you can effectively take any and all voice work you want, no matter how shady or how unscrupulous, but you're locked out of the higher echelon of jobs and aren't guaranteed any rights. Most of the professional productions for games are going to be fine, but a nonunion actor can basically treat the voice over market as the Wild West. There's actually nothing to stop you from making more than a unionized actor, though. You can also do union work while not being in a union, though you'll almost certainly need to have connections to do that.

Being in a union, on the other hand, gives you work benefits that generally go towards turning voice over into something you can make a living on, on top of access to the top-paying stuff like what Disney does. Off the top of my head, unionized work ensures you get a minimum of $200/hour (basically a minimum of $800 when you consider most studio sessions are blocked off by four-hour increments, even for fifteen-minute's work) and your typical work benefits like in any other line of work - insurance and whatnot. You're also guaranteed to have your name in the credits. The only problem is that, depending on the situation, accepting union work as a nonunion actor is a no-go and can land you in trouble. Persona 4 is likely one such case, so the anonymity is in all likelihood there to ensure she doesn't get blacklisted from everything.

But going back to competition, there's really nothing to stop those already at the top from continuing to get the majority of work. A lot of times, just like job openings, there's already someone in mind for a specific role, so even if they send out a casting call, it might just be a formality. The voice acting industry is notoriously hard to break into for that reason, assuming you want to go into animation or video games - there simply aren't that many projects to satiate everyone. Add to that the fact that clients are getting less and less patient with the internet - you're basically required to have a home studio setup that you can push auditions through within an hour or two of a job posting, in contrast to two-three years ago where you'd have at least a day.

Voice acting is highly competitive, and a pretty brutal beast. You really have to like doing it to get past the inevitable hardships you'd face. It doesn't help that if you don't know what you're doing, you can basically commit career suicide, such as becoming unionized too early. Basically you'd be too small to compete with the unionized heavy-hitters, while also locked out of the smaller work you could get more reliably, leaving you stuck and with no means of building a positive reputation. It doesn't help that the animation scene in New York - once a bastion of work in the '90s - is drying up, leaving only LA and Dallas. It's no wonder why Crispin Freeman, Sam Riegel and Cassandra Morris moved to LA from there, honestly.

...Sorry if that's a little long-winded, but I've been dealing with a lot of this stuff myself lately, now that it's summer and that I'm trying to get my foot in the door with entry-level voice work.

EDIT: Oh, and as far as I know, Catherine was the only unionized production Atlus USA ever did.
 
Persona 2: Innocent Sin
The Shadow Self Arc

So, I think I may have been unduly harsh on this arc. On the one hand, I don't feel it lives up to the Shadow Selves of Persona 4, nor to the Shadow Self of Persona 1, but on the other hand, Maki's Shadow Self is the center piece of Persona 1, and Persona 4 has years and years of experience under its belt. Both scenarios differ from Persona 2, which should be credited as taking the concept of Maki's Shadow Self, applying it to a whole party and laying the foundation for their return in Persona 4. I think aspects of the Shadow Self Showdowns were not properly built up to, and that this left some elements to fall flat or feel like they cheapened the entire effect, but at the same time I need to bear in mind that this is the first time the team had really tried its hand at anything like this, mistakes were bound to happen, and that it isn't all bad.

So here are my thoughts as regards rankings. I don't like ranking, since it doesn't yield much reasonable content for discussion, but I'll throw down my rankings all the same and pray I do a sufficient job of explaining my thoughts regarding them after ward:

Shadow Eikichi > Shadow Yukino = Shadow Lisa > Shadow Tatsuya > Shadow Maya.

Beginning from the bottom and working my way to the top so that I can dispense with complaints and move toward praise, I'm not much of a fan of Shadow Maya. Mostly because I felt that she felt less like Maya's Shadow and more like Maya's Foreshadowing of the Reveal. She didn't seem to have much to do with Maya, and seemed almost entirely built around the "orphanage" reveal, which I'm not a big fan of anyway. Maya also reacts least to her, and why not? We're never really given any indication that the sarcastic, judgmental, caustic Shadow Maya we meet is at all related to the cheerful, forgiving, and overwhelmingly positive Maya. Her character is perhaps twisted by rumors and expectations, which excuses her, but leaves me with little real cause to feel any impact from her. That said, Shadow Maya was an interesting concept, especially as an unnoticed party member with her own nasty outlook on things.

Shadow Tatsuya does confront Tatsuya, but the problem there sort of stems from the fact that there really isn't a lot to Tatsuya's character to build off of. The confrontation sort of circles around Jun, who I don't really like, but more importantly includes bits about Tatsuya's character that weren't really brought up prior to this point in any real way. I applaud it, all the same, for doing what it could to characterize the silent protagonist, and, when taken as a criticism of a PC who is just following player's commands it sort of works better. If they had done like in P1 and had Tatsuya's Shadow condemn or praise him based on the player's choices, it would've been even better, I think.

Shadow Lisa is built to fairly well. We know she's coming a long way off because of her posters in Muse, and Lisa's hatred of her father and standing out in general are discussed at length over the course of the game. Her affection for Tatsuya is an established and central part of her character, and attacking all of these is most certainly one of the best moves the game could pull. In a way, Shadow Lisa is the truest to the way Shadows would be portrayed later on in the series, and she almost feels more aggressive than Shadow Maya in the way she goes about replacing Lisa by spending time with her friends. The encounter is marred by the writers going just a bit too far by introducing the whole "drugs and sex" aspect and then not addressing it at all, but discounting this hazardous misstep, I feel that it really is a solid Shadow Self encounter in every other way.

Shadow Yukino is great in general because Yukino herself is an excellent character. Her rough and tumble life is addressed prior to the showdown, but in an ambiguous way that makes Shadow Yukino's specific mockery much more understandable. Especially since Yukino is an older character. Indeed, the breaking of Yukino is done well enough that, even though the player is unlikely to care about her dead boyfriend, they may well still be affected by the loss because they feel for Yukino. Her Shadow's words are made believable by the fact that Yukino hints at this dark side frequently, when she isn't openly addressing it in the character of Anna. If there is a downside to Shadow Yukino, other than that the player can only experience half of her encounter, it'd be the sort of crazy kiss with Anna. It's just a bit much in a scene that doesn't need it, but since that's only in the "bad" route I'm not overly upset, either.

Shadow Eikichi is fucking awesome and the game's writing at its best. It's funny, because on the one hand, Shadow Eikichi doesn't talk much about Eikichi, but on the other hand, everything he says and does is EXACTLY about Eikichi and it hits him dead on. Miyabi was introduced as a pudgy, kinda homely girl who had once been romantic with Eikichi. Eikichi, in turn, turned out to have once been a pudgy, homely, dorky kid. He spends a fair amount of time talking up how hot Miyabi was back when they dated, unaware that she's right next to him when he's saying this stuff. When she's kidnapped by the New Boss or whoever, and they mock her and call her names for being fat, Eikichi comes to her defense in a big way. That scene is enhanced by the later knowledge that Eikichi himself used to be fat, and had to endure the scorn of others. And it all comes together when Miyabi, now hot and tall and thin through the devices of the Masked Circle is seen in the arms of Shadow Eikichi. She turned to evil for his sake, and after the encounter Eikichi tells her he never cared about her weight, but that she hadn't cared about his.

Personally, the entire story of Eikichi and Miyabi is the most Persona-y part of the game. It's a story of two kids with very human problems that are exacerbated by supernatural forces. It's full of heart and sincerity, the kind of problem you expect that anyone can relate to or feel for regardless of their own issues. It rings real and true in a way I don't actually think much else in this game does (in part from design, since "is this for real?" is a part of the game.)

The Shadow Self encounters, in spite of my bitching and moaning about this or that frustrating snag, do help to develop the cast. They do add depth to them, whatever other faults I may find. I don't think the idea was executed perfectly in most cases, but I think it's unfair and unrealistic of me to expect perfection at every turn. Perhaps the best part of the Shadow Selves, though, is the way they tie into the game's central thread of rumors becoming reality. Sumaru City is going insane with lie after lie becoming the truth, and with people adopting masks to hide the things they don't like about themselves through the power of Joker and the Masked Circle, but along the way the cast is forced to face beings who are almost antithetical versions of themselves: Shadows who claim to be the true self, but embody the traits each most despises about themself. The heroes, armed with Personas, masks of their own that embody the power and strength of their characters, actually manage to discern the truth from the lies and accept their Shadow Selves. On a day when fucking Hitler comes back from the dead with a mech army wielding the Lance of Longinus on a Space Ship, when they could easily get away with saying "You're not me!" and if they believed it strongly enough make it so that those Shadows ceased to exist through the power of these rumors become reality, they actually stand up to their inner selves and accept them.

Thematically, it's really quite brilliant.
 
PK Gaming said:
Oh man, that was a super cool episode. I really dug the reasonable and well informed arguments, and you guys were generally pretty fun to listen to. You were particularly on point with the cultural differences accounting for some of the more problematic aspects of his character (though poor writing in the camping trip is undeniable IMO). Overall, i'd say you guys covered pretty much everything I was hoping you'd cover. You should consider doing more of these character-based podcasts because they're pretty fun.

And yeah, I was the one brought up the P4G exclusive Yosuke/Kanji interactions. The interactions between Yosuke and Kanji are markedly less vitriolic/offensive in the Golden exclusive scenes. (To be specific, the beach, okina city, and valentine's day events) It's unclear if they were consciously trying to make the Yosuke/Kanji interactions less grating, but regardless, think Yosuke received an overall bump in quality in characterization in Golden.



One last thing. I hate to bring this up again but...

I'm still miffed that they cut out the romance with Yosuuke, because if Yosuke’s homophobia had to be in the game then I would rather it be a result of his massive insecurity, rather than it just being there to make Kanji the butt of some mean spirited jokes.

PS: Yosuke is the worst character of all time
Click to expand...

I'm watching The Shield right now, and your post is reminding me of a certain cop in it. If only Yosuke was similar to him! :-P
 
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