Not to mention the fact that the word has a fucking history of violence attached to it. Hell, not even a history, there was a rise in the number of attacks on lgbt people in NY last year. Not to mention the state of things in places like Uganda, Jamaica, Russia etc.
Jonah Hill on Calling a Paparazzo "Faggot"
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Not to mention the fact that the word has a fucking history of violence attached to it. Hell, not even a history, there was a rise in the number of attacks on lgbt people in NY last year. Not to mention the state of things in places like Uganda, Jamaica, Russia etc.
Why? According to reports of the incident the paparazzo had been slinging sexual remarks at Hill all day. Hill intended to hurt the paparazzo and I doubt anyone would blame him for that.
The reason he's apologizing and putting this all out there is because, in the heat of the moment, he used a word which he recognizes as having a wider implication. He didn't just insult the paparazzo with his word choice and that's why he's disappointed in himself.
The woman in the car thread was just a racist showing her true colors. She was throwing out loaded language casually, just because she didn't like a random black guy in a car.
Not even sure how you'd compare that situation to Hill.
As noted earlier, the paparazzo had been sexually harassing Hill up to that point. Given the way human minds make associations, it's not entirely surprising that he reacted to sexual harassment with a sexually charged insult in response.
Again, that doesn't make it right, but it's a far cry from dropping that shit in casual conversation and acting like it's no big deal.
I would venture that most people, if pushed hard enough, would eventually hit a breaking point where they would snap and just respond with the absolute, most hurtful thing that popped into their head at the moment. You'd probably do it yourself.
Just because someone is capable of lashing out like that, doesn't make it willful or a pattern.
Don't think anyone is saying that he didn't know what it meant or how hurtful it was. Anyone who is even remotely aware of LGBT issues (let alone anyone who's active) knows how hurtful using it as a slur can be. But that just fits right in with the situation. He was being harassed. In an instant his mind went for the most hurtful response it could garner. Bam. Psychology 101.
Sticks (which you burn) -> Cigarettes (which are small sticks that you burn) -> Dicks (look like sticks) -> Multiple Dicks (aka two guys together)
Basic etymology of a slur.
perfectchaos007
Member
I completely bought the sincerity of his apology. Of course many skeptics will almost never accept any sincere apology because in the back of their head they're thinking "He's just acting" when delivering the apology. And Jonah is a great actor so I can see how people could have that line of thinking. But, I'm an optimist on this, and I thought his apology was well delivered and believable. I hope the LGBT community accepts his apology.
dem
Member
I'm about the same age as Jonah..
When I was growing up.. "Gay" or "Fag" was really the go to insult for everyone. You couldn't go a day without calling someone gay.
Everyone knows better now. I don't go around calling people gay as an insult anymore.. but In the heat of the moment.. i don't think I could guarantee I don't go to those words.
When I was growing up.. "Gay" or "Fag" was really the go to insult for everyone. You couldn't go a day without calling someone gay.
Everyone knows better now. I don't go around calling people gay as an insult anymore.. but In the heat of the moment.. i don't think I could guarantee I don't go to those words.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
It's the only way..lol.
FortuneFaded
Member
Fun(?) Fact: Beastie Boys' debut album was originally going to be called Don't Be A Faggot but the record company refused the name and they pressured their manager into forcing the band to choose a different title. They have since apologised for the title and for some of the lyrics of their earlier songs.
I think it's because homosexuals used to be burned at the stake. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_by_burning You're essentially saying that being gay is wrong, and the person should go die whenever you use it as an insult.
What's interesting about Jonah's insult is that the focus is on him having power over him sexually. Basically I'm not sure if his intention was to say the guy being gay was the insult. Rather he's saying the guy is gay and can suck his dick.
Of course words have weight and a history behind them. I guess I just find insults that revolve around having power over someone sexually...weird?
Sometimes people just get mad and talk shit and there is no deeper meaning though.
Of course words have weight and a history behind them. I guess I just find insults that revolve around having power over someone sexually...weird?
Sometimes people just get mad and talk shit and there is no deeper meaning though.
"It's too much fun! haha! Even though I'm in the wrong? It's other people who should have to change their way of living so I can keep saying my fun word! LOL!"
You're acting like a child. Be an adult, realize that what you're saying is absolutely narrow minded and foolish and make the change to make it stop. Make yourself a better person. Otherwise? You're going to have a real hard time in the work place if you think you can call your coworker a "faggot" when he doesn't get his TPS reports in.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
"It's fun and harmless" type of arguments are just excuses, because I haven't said this word as an adult, and I doubt I ever will again. What's the difficulty others have with doing the same?
Honestly as a black male born and raised in NYC, just going off that video alone, I wouldn't instantly brandish that woman as a racist nor am i saying that video absolves her of potentially being a racist either. (The same way i wouldn't instantly brandish Jonah Hill as a complete homophobe.) I'm saying is that It's just easy to label her as one.
Again just off the video, i saw an immature woman who was upset and didn't know how to handle the situation and let someone mildly provoke her into looking like a bigoted asshole (whether she truly is one or not)
Jonah Hill let some paparazzo get under his skin and he called him a faggot. He didn't properly handle the situation and let someone mildly provoke him into looking like a bigoted asshole. Does this mean that Jonah Hill sits around on his free time sipping brandy contemplating how much better the world would be without gay people? Of course not. It was in the heat of the moment and he was upset. He admitted as much. It certainly doesn't make him right but it also doesn't necessarily make him a homophobe which most people here seem to understand. The same line of thinking should apply to the woman in the parking lot
She was ignorant and immature, the same way Jonah's response was ignorant and immature
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I think the common explanation is that it was a term used to describe an annoying woman (either because they were baggage, or because old women carried benches of sticks) and was then applied to men consumed effete.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I'm not saying that the word isn't offensive, I'm just not convinced that we should be 'banning' any words, for fear of where that may lead. Then again I am all for restricting the free speech of people like the West Boro Baptist church so I am probably just a hypocrite.
How on Earth do people come up with these leaps? No one banned Hill from using a homophobic term; he apologized because he realizes it makes him look like a homophobic asshole and he feels bad about it.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I'm consistently amazed at how these conversations always end up at this irrelevant place.
Nothing is banned, but people have responsibility and judgment.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I don't think the point of this is really to "ban" words, so much as make people aware of how they can be interpreted. I understand that some may chalk up such desires to hopeless naivete, but the endgame of most concerns in regards to political correctness is just to encourage empathy. The goal isn't to make me bitterly make a token concession as I roll my eyes because I can't say "faggot" anymore while remarking that over sensitive namby pambies have stolen another word from us. I can still say the word if I insist on doing so. The goal is simply to try to get me to think "I didn't know that my generic word for asshole was offending people in this manner; I'm going to try not to say it from now on."
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
That video is almost 5 minutes long
The LGBT community will be relieved to hear this.
Right and she doesn't start really losing her resolve up until half way through it when she gets up close to insult him and start letting the n word fly a few times. Everything before that is just bickering and bantering which clearly shows how immature she is in not knowing how to properly handle the situation.
The whole exchange came across to me like when a younger brother is doing the stupid "I'm not touching you" thing and then the older brother suddenly lashes from sheer annoyance even though it's clearly uncalled for.
Captain Europe
Member
No one is spewing hate, some people just think less of him and that is their prerogative.
I certainly have been pissed off to the point once where I wanted to use language to hurt that person, but never slurs that degrade entire groups of people. It just sounds like a bunch of excuses to me.
Homophobia/racism isn't an either or thing, there's lots of shades in between.
Captain Europe
Member
A fag is a cigarette, faggot is a UK dish and originally a word that was used to degrade women, and later gay/bi men.
Absolutely.
I just don't think a derogatory term aimed at one particular person in the heat of the moment should instantly be reflective of how a person might feel about those people as a whole which it seems people are applying this train of thought to the Jonah Hill situation but not the women in the parking lot.
I'm not even saying people are wrong for doing so. I just find it kind of interesting and brought it up to have a conversation/discussion around it. To me both people were just immature more than they were racist or homophobic.
Captain Europe
Member
I wouldn't call Jonah a homophobe for one fuck up, but that lady in the parking lot seemed like a full on racist to me.
Then Eminem is a cruel man too. Stop using this word to discriminate or insult others, it's not that hard.
Captain Europe
Member
Eminem is an idiot.
Mighty Chin
Banned
11 Pages? Jonah Hill is evil!
He's been using the same excuse for a decade too. "I don't mean it that way, it's just an insult to me"
My ex-'best friend' said the same thing before I said I had enough of his nonsense.
It's just a cop-out for guys like him or even guys like 'Eminem', Jonah Hill, etc.
I weep for the state of reading comprehension in this world.
Jonah Hill never even almost said anything like "this is just an insult". But in fact, he said the exact opposite.
ab.aeterno
Member
"Have a thicker skin/just deal with it" is a terrible response to persecuted minorities dealing with hateful slurs. It's a bullshit argument.
The thicker skin I have now for dealing with bullshit I only got through surviving an adolescence of pain, depression, and loneliness. Not all gay teenagers are as lucky to see adulthood.
reminded me of the Louis CK bit about it
Fair enough.
My interpretation of how society functions at large in regards to the n word is that if you say it and you're not black then it must be because you're a racist just for even using it (i.e. the paula deen fiasco) and im not making any excuses for the words use but that kind of thinking just strikes me as short sighted. Tempers flare and things happen in the heat of the moment. Its quite possible that one might say the word and simply be using it to purposely upset and offend the person that its aimed at; not necessarily have it be a gross representation of how they feel about an entire group of ppl. I feel like its only right for ppl to at least briefly entertain that
Its like if i got into a bad argument with a woman and i call her a bitch and someone sees that and then says that i must not have respect for women if im calling her a bitch and that could be true but it could also be that i treat women with the utmost respect and in this situation, with this particular woman i dont respect her thus im calling her a bitch just to purposely offend her
Jonah is a cool dude and I'm happy he legitimately owned up to his mistake and didn't bullshit around the issue.
Sure, being famous and all probably pressures you into "saving face" and all that for the sake of your public image, but that doesn't make it any less sincere/genuine. He could have justified himself, but he didn't. He accepted the possibility that people won't accept an apology and didn't try to gain anyone's support on the issue. Instead he tells people not to do the same mistakes he did. That takes some serious courage to do.
Sure, being famous and all probably pressures you into "saving face" and all that for the sake of your public image, but that doesn't make it any less sincere/genuine. He could have justified himself, but he didn't. He accepted the possibility that people won't accept an apology and didn't try to gain anyone's support on the issue. Instead he tells people not to do the same mistakes he did. That takes some serious courage to do.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
They don't say it with the vitriol a homophobe would, however. Not even close.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Fun Facts:
-Paula Deen had a record of treating her black employees in demoralizing ways. She had a house slave-themed banquet, had darker-skinned black people prevented from directly interacting with guests, and has incidents noted off-camera between tapings that are also at least quasi-racial. She has a history of reinforcing her beliefs, directly or indirectly, so yes, she is a racist. There's no other side to entertain because it doesn't exist for her, not anymore.
-"Bitch" and "nigger" are not exactly the same. They both can refer to groups of people, and both are meant as demoralizing, but that's about it. "Bitch" refers, as we use it in today's society, to a person's attitude. It's also become more socially accepted to call men "bitches", so it's becoming a more gender-neutral slur, but a slur nonetheless.
"Nigger" may originally have referred to a person's attitude as old dictionaries put it, but in today's society, and since American slavery, it's been used to demean black people based solely on the color of their skin. You can't change your skin color, but you can change your attitude. It's easy to see that one carries more weight (generally speaking, individually it can be the complete opposite) than the other despite both being slurs.
-Knowing these facts, it's not likely that in today's world if someone catches you calling a woman a "bitch" they will think you despise and hate all women with a seething passion, but if you call a black individual a "nigger" they will probably think you are a racist.
If you don't want to be misconstrued as a racist and still want to dig at a person you've got a problem with, stay away from insulting people based on their skin color or ethnicity.
It's really that simple.
->>EDIT: Personally, if you're from the streets or into hiphop culture and you use "nigga", there is no problem there, regardless of skin color. Just my honest opinion. In those circles it has a quite different connotation.
People who take issue to that, just don't get it.
I think he has handled this quite well, in that he indeed managed to turn his mistake into a teachable moment. The word "faggot" still has a lot of currency in our lexicon, as it has managed to be more enduring than outward homophobia itself. It is not possible to divorce it from homophobia, no, but it has also been somewhat generalized, and it feeds on our overall conceptions of masculinity/femininity (which themselves are tied to our conceptions of sexuality, yes) for mileage and power.
It's a word so full of hate, but one that manages to infiltrate conversation all too casually. It personally does not surprise me to hear of a situation where someone was harassed, angered, and hurt, and while searching for a hurtful word to throw in response, latched onto "faggot" - even though they're, in actuality, basically free of any homophobic impulse. I can imagine even very decent people going there, and Jonah Hill's apology seems both sincere enough and useful enough that I'm more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
It's a word so full of hate, but one that manages to infiltrate conversation all too casually. It personally does not surprise me to hear of a situation where someone was harassed, angered, and hurt, and while searching for a hurtful word to throw in response, latched onto "faggot" - even though they're, in actuality, basically free of any homophobic impulse. I can imagine even very decent people going there, and Jonah Hill's apology seems both sincere enough and useful enough that I'm more than willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
What's really interesting to me is how easily people use the word typing in this thread, people who I'm sure wouldn't say it out loud. Not criticizing anyone to be clear, I just find it interesting.
I don't blame you, because in a way, I agree. Looking at my post above, in retrospect, I don't feel completely comfortable having used the word twice, even when I could have typed "that word" or something along those lines to get the same meaning across.
Never got deep in the Paula Deen stuff other than her admitting to using the word in regards to being robbed but fair enough, if she's a racist, she's a racist.
Clearly bitch and nigger are on 2 different levels. The word nigger has centuries of hate attached to it which makes my point all the more salient, if you're having an argumentive conversation around race and your intention is to purposely offend someone who in this case is black, what word is gonna better help you do that? It's the trump card as far as slurs go. Hell, I'd be more surprised if she didn't say it Like I've said, i'm not arguing against the idea that she very well may be racist but to me what was in that video looked like a focused attempt to offend the guy in the car because he was pissing her off. It certainly doesn't make it right but it doesn't instantly make her a racist either. Regardless, what she is without question is an immature woman with bad judgement
What makes someone racist to you? How far does a person have to go?
Its very situational. Similarly would she have been looked at as less racist if she didnt scream the word? If she only said it once?
A lot of that video was just back and forth bickering from both parties. The verbal tradeoff clearly escalated on her end but it looked like a dumb attempt to piss him off
Shit like donald sterlings conversation is racist
Shit like mel gibson telling his gf that he hopes she gets rapes by a pack of niggers is racist
A lot of that video reads like an angry woman who had nothing better to say. Again, its no excuse nor does it remove the idea that she may be racist.
ab.aeterno
Member
I can only speak for me, but I have no problem with the word used in discussion about the word. It just doesn't make sense to me to tiptoe around the word we're discussing. To me, we're speaking academically.
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