Air dodge landing lag is separate from normal landing, though. And landing lag from aerial moves is also separate from air dodging -- each aerial move has its own amount of frames of landing lag. So... I don't get this sentiment? How do you even draw this conclusion? Changing a move's landing lag like Forward Air on DK has no bearing on how much landing lag you will have for air dodges.
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 8: Put mii in, coach
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
Air dodge landing lag is separate from normal landing, though. And landing lag from aerial moves is also separate from air dodging -- each aerial move has its own amount of frames of landing lag. So... I don't get this sentiment? How do you even draw this conclusion? Changing a move's landing lag like Forward Air on DK has no bearing on how much landing lag you will have for air dodges.
BassForever
Member
Depending on who you ask or where you go, it ranges from "FREAKING NINTENDO IS RUINING OUR FAVORITE FRANCHISE" to "there is a lot of potential here and the game is in alpha lets wait and see"
Clearly you're not very good at playing with items. The randomness isn't as much of a factor as you would think. Just like in 1v1 where you have to know how all your possible opponents play, and how to play against them, in items play, knowing how each item acts, and quick reads and reactions are the real deciding factors.
No, that is not...look, clearly you don't play FFA, but trust me, strategy and skill are just as important, if not more important, in that mode. Each of the modes is very different, and requires different strategy, but they do require strategy.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
There's no point making the game faster than Brawl if moves, throws and even aerial games get punished with a cool-down period; that's something most people are going to notice, regardless of casual/competitive. It should get ironed out, or at least get a way to negate said lag.
Video of all final smashes for smash 4 so far:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFHLF7P7UCY
(except samus)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFHLF7P7UCY
(except samus)
But then we'll have a repeat of brawl. D:
Kidding aside, things are looking better this time around so it'll be interesting to see how the games turn out.
BassForever
Member
Hey you guys didn't tell me they fixed DK's Konga Beat final smash
It now does what it should have always done aka hit any foe in the circle, in brawl it shot out two random shock waves that you couldn't control and often would just fly away from any of the other characters. Has anyone posted video of someone getting all greats because it seems to increase the range if you do more greats in a row.
It now does what it should have always done aka hit any foe in the circle, in brawl it shot out two random shock waves that you couldn't control and often would just fly away from any of the other characters. Has anyone posted video of someone getting all greats because it seems to increase the range if you do more greats in a row.
That's not exactly how it is.
If you're still in an aerial animation and land on the ground, you will have a cool down period. If you land a hit, great, but you won't be able to follow up on the hit well. If you miss, you will get punished. This effectively makes aerial moves much more preferably used further up in the air and causes things to have a more ground based approach when approaching an opponent on the ground.
Grabs are really weird. You can't really follow up on it anymore it seems. Maybe it is there way of stopping chain grabbing? I'm not sure. It allows you to put an opponent in the air and that is about it.
BassForever
Member
Honestly if they're idea is to make throws have more knock back to make the good for killing like they were in Smash 64 then I'm all for it. At worst the loss of chain grabs should mean that walk off stages will be legal because that generally seemed to be the biggest issue people had with them.
liquidekkah
Member
KittenMaster
Member
Can you explain a lot of the more advanced strategies that go on in FFA that I'm not aware of or don't understand?
They would still be banned, as edgecamping would be an even more desirable tactic due to the throws' increased killing power
theprodigy
Member
on the contrary, this means walkoffs are even worse because everyone can sit on the edge and camp
It's obviously better to provide feedback now then it is to wait until it's far too late to change anything
but I'm sure you know that already and you just want it to disappear
see: Wii Fit Camper at the invitational (not really advanced, but nonetheless a clear tactic and a very different strategy)
I don't know if this has been mentioned but I've seen plenty of air moves that have Melee-like recovery speeds on landing. It could be that they're designing the game so not every move is viable a person's length off of the ground.
It was clarified above.
Landing lag after landing on the stage in general = bad, as it reduces your overall movement. However, landing lag after air dodging = good, as it deters players from evading air combos, because if they do, they can be punished for doing so.
They're not as strong as Smash 64 at all. Smash 64 throws KO'd well below 150% on most of its stages. They have really high base knockback rather than knockback growth. Higher growth means they'd KO better at the higher percentages rather than the current way they are with the high base.
Of course, not all the throws have high base (see: Kirby's Uthrow) but high base knockback was definitely a thing for Marth's Dthrow and Fthrow, as far as what I could glean from the match footage. Fox's Dthrow is another example of high base knockback that we saw during when PPMD was playing him.
Could you provide a link for these videos? Not that I disagree with you, I'm just interested in seeing this.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Interesting.
So Lucas and Lucario were included before their games were even released (the latter had his Movie though so he was known to the public), Ike had just debuted in his first game (and his sequel wasn't out for about two years) and Wolf just had Star Fox Assault which made him relevant again.
It's about creating and taking advantage of opportunities. A lot of it depends on how your opponents play, and whether you're doing stock or time. You can Camp on the outskirts and Snipe with projectiles or items. You can Control the battle, using characters who have wide area hitboxes to take on all sides. You can use spacing to Bait attacks, then let someone else Punish, so that you can take them out. Kill Stealing is a huge part of FFA. You can get a good kill off of most characters grabs. It's also good to toss others into the fray. If the battle devolves into two separate fights, grab your opponent and throw them into the other fight, then Snipe or Bomb the entire group. The most important thing about FFA is to remember you're fighting three other people. Tech Chases and Edge Guarding are opportunity actions, not primary options. A successful edge guard is one of the most Punishable actions in FFA play.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I really don't think each Mii would take up a "slot". It'd be just a single "Mii" slot but you can scroll through created Miis on the character picture, I reckon. It's not like the three archetypes are fixed - you still have to customize them, so there's no point in separating them into three slots.
KittenMaster
Member
I already know all of this though. Every FFA mode in any game I've played was about being on the outside taking advantage of players infighting or killing off weakened players. What you described doesn't sound much different. I feel like character balance other than making sure a character has things suited for FFA and can escape bad situations in FFA is less important than it would be for high level 1v1 or team play due to the ambushing nature that FFA games have.
liquidekkah
Member
Save 'N Quit
Banned
Luigi's new FS looks like such a step down from his old one :/
ShockingAlberto
Member
I imagine that's the point. Negative Zone was a really ridiculously strong Final Smash in most circumstances. Unless everyone's fresh, you could easily use it to clear the board.
Plus, I mean, it's a really dumb final smash. Switching it to something from his game makes more sense. It's why I'm pissed they're still using Giga Bowser.
I don't feel like absolutely everything should be from the games. Since it's unconnected to the home series I feel Smash should be able to take creative liberties for the sake of making a character more interesting to play as.
He was unlockable in Brawl, he's probably unlockable here.
He was unlockable in Brawl, he's probably unlockable here.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Wouldn't worry, he was secret in Brawl, he's probably secret here.
There is a video showing WFT air dodging on the 3DS version and subsequently experiencing noticeable landing lag when hitting the ground. Apparently, this didn't exist in Brawl.
Smash 4 most certainly has landing lag in general though, and this is something I have experienced directly as I played 14 matches on Wednesday at the Best Buy event. I played Pikachu for about half of those matches, and every time I would contact the ground after performing a neutral A or down A, I felt "stuck" for a few milliseconds before I was able to do anything again. I noticed it in the very first match and it became increasingly annoying.
RomanceDawn
Member
The only sad part about the digital event is that I *KNOW* that the reaction for zelda Wii U would have been just as big as twilight princess in 2004, and it makes me sad that there is no crowd cheering
No there was and I was witness to it in person. While the Smash tourney goers waited in line, they watched it from their phones and the whole street of Nintendo fans went absolutely bonkers!
ShockingAlberto
Member
How are people getting in 14 matches at Best Buy?
I had time for, like, one. After four hours of waiting.
I had time for, like, one. After four hours of waiting.
This can't be true. There's an icon for the Wii Classic Controller Pro on this screenshot of the character select screen from the demo here:
http://www.twitch.tv/liquidkdj
"What did they improve in smash 4 from brawl?"
".....next question"-KDJ
"What did they improve in smash 4 from brawl?"
".....next question"-KDJ
Air dodge landing lag is separate from the example you gave. Moves like Pikachu's Neutral Air have their own set amount of landing lag frames and this has existed since even Smash 64. What it sounds like people are experiencing is that moves that used to have low landing lag in previous games (like Pikachu's neutral air) now have more landing lag, preventing them from being able to be used low to the ground comfortably and in a fluid way.
That's what players are complaining about and want changed. They would essentially want Pikachu's neutral air (per your example) to have less landing lag, not to the point where it doesn't exist but back to what it was like in Brawl or even Melee would be fine.
I think you understood my earlier explanation but I just wanted to be sure by clarifying it further.
People absolutely want the air dodge landing lag to stay the same, it's moves like Pika's neutral air that people would want to be changed.
And FWIW, I would be careful about what you read on Smashboards in the Smash 4 subforums. There's a lot of newer players in there that are posting and less of the more knowledegable players that could articulate these things. And it's not even just newer players, it's also more casual players who have even less understanding all together. No offense to them, but yeah, don't put too much stock into what some of them say unless you know for sure they would know. Not all of smashboards is filled with members who know the nitty gritty on Smash mechanics.
Late but thanks for the write up. Really glad to see that the reaction has been so overwhelmingly positive to the Invitational within Nintendo (NoA or Nintendo in general?). I'd really love to see these expand and become more regular. Tie some announcements to the games like DLC characters and host these events throughout a regular generation and I'd say you'd already be onto a great way to keep visibility up and give everyone their Smash fix.
The comment about the game screaming for dash dancing really makes me hype as fuck.
But that's sort of the point. Being able to escape bad situations, or create opportunities, or take advantage of opportunities in FFA is not something every character does equally. The fact that some characters are better at some things than others in a given situation is what balance means. Just saying, "okay, the character has one attack that hits all sides, they're good," doesn't cut it.
I don't think so. I didn't notice that in the 3DS version.
Brings a tear to my eye to hear that!
here's a shaky cam of people at the NYC Nintendo store flipping out
turn down the sound
theprodigy
Member
http://www.twitch.tv/liquidkdj
"What did they improve in smash 4 from brawl?"
".....next question"-KDJ
Reggie would be proud of that non-answer /s
ShockingAlberto
Member
By and large, this is going to be the competitive response to Smash 4.http://www.twitch.tv/liquidkdj
"What did they improve in smash 4 from brawl?"
".....next question"-KDJ
http://www.twitch.tv/liquidkdj
"What did they improve in smash 4 from brawl?"
".....next question"-KDJ
I'm here for the melee gameplay. Always entertaining.
ShockingAlberto
Member
You can. I do it all the time. I don't recall if it was patched in or anything, but you just drag the cursor using the analog stick to the bottom-right corner when it's showing you Mii Plaza on the TV, switch the screens, and it will put the Wii U menu on the TV.
Yup! You can navigate both the menu and the wara wara plaza as well. It's not as quick and intuitive, but hey that's what the Gamepad is for (especially with the quick launch update)
edit: beaten lol
I wish it had caught the beginning of the zelda reveal! Still good, though.
I'm so glad I was at home w/ no one around because i fell out of my chair and started crying!