I wonder if this will hold true going forward. Manga isn't as old as comics, so most of the bigger creators are still alive. If Dragonball continues to be popular for the next 30-40 years, will you start to see new series by people other than Akira Toriyama?
What is it about western comics manga readers are turned off by? (& vice-versa)
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I wonder if this will hold true going forward. Manga isn't as old as comics, so most of the bigger creators are still alive. If Dragonball continues to be popular for the next 30-40 years, will you start to see new series by people other than Akira Toriyama?
Dragon Ball hasn't been published in close to 20 years. It is still popular in Japan. There have been re-releases (both partially and fully colored renditions with larger page sizes) and a few side stories from other authors.
I doubt there will be another "canonical" Dragon Ball comic from another artist. But a reinterpretation or side-story? Maybe.
Macmanus
Member
Image is where I find refuge. I have my local shop pull all #1's. I'm willing to give anything a go.
I personally view them as different things. So to me, the question is really asking about the difference between Marvel/DC v. Shounen Jump which I view as basically equivalent. That's a fine line I know.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Haly, you never responded to my Star Wars, James Bond, etc post.
The main issue for me is definitely the continuity issues in superhero comics. It's not just keeping up with everything though, it's how the business model basically dictates an infinite continuity. The "story" can never really end for mainstream superhero comics. They're always in limbo, with a reboot every 20 years or so to keep things fresh. They're not able to have a traditional "beginning, middle, and end" arc. Not in the long term anyway. Even individual arcs have to be open ended.
Shounen fight epics have a similar problem to a degree (which is why I'm done with those). Some of them will continue for 10 or 20 years, but they eventually end. Dragon Ball ended, One Piece will eventually end, Naruto will eventually end. And thus those stories are still able to have some kind of workable plot arc. Better yet, they aren't tangled into massive extended universes, so you don't have shit that happened in Green Lantern affecting what happens in Superman. Each manga is also pretty much controlled by one writer, whereas superhero comics have many different writers reinterpreting the same characters who all have to share universes.
I actually do read western comics, just not superhero comics. I stick to comics that are their own isolated stories with a focused creative staff. I'll buy stuff like Watchmen, V For Vendetta, and 300. After finishing DMZ I started Northlanders. After that I intend to start reading Chew. People are right that the variety of western comics is very understated. Every once in a while I'll check out a good individual arc of a superhero comic if it's collected in a trade book like Batman Year One or Wolverine Origin.
As for the main appeal of manga, what it get's down to I think is that it represents what American mainstream comics could have been had the Comics Code Authority never happened. That lost variety has returned to American comics, but it's so niche by this point no one notices it.
Shounen fight epics have a similar problem to a degree (which is why I'm done with those). Some of them will continue for 10 or 20 years, but they eventually end. Dragon Ball ended, One Piece will eventually end, Naruto will eventually end. And thus those stories are still able to have some kind of workable plot arc. Better yet, they aren't tangled into massive extended universes, so you don't have shit that happened in Green Lantern affecting what happens in Superman. Each manga is also pretty much controlled by one writer, whereas superhero comics have many different writers reinterpreting the same characters who all have to share universes.
I actually do read western comics, just not superhero comics. I stick to comics that are their own isolated stories with a focused creative staff. I'll buy stuff like Watchmen, V For Vendetta, and 300. After finishing DMZ I started Northlanders. After that I intend to start reading Chew. People are right that the variety of western comics is very understated. Every once in a while I'll check out a good individual arc of a superhero comic if it's collected in a trade book like Batman Year One or Wolverine Origin.
As for the main appeal of manga, what it get's down to I think is that it represents what American mainstream comics could have been had the Comics Code Authority never happened. That lost variety has returned to American comics, but it's so niche by this point no one notices it.
Are we talking about modern comics and modern manga? Because both became a thing around the same time.
This is a good point I never even thought of.
Consider a major comics publisher in America in the 70s printing something like... Skullman, Devilman, Drifting Classroom, Barefoot Gen, Tezuka's Ayako, etc.
I wonder where the American comic industry would have went.
captainnapalm
Member
Yeah, I mean it would be absurd to have to defend stuff like Preacher, Invisibles, From Hell, Sandman and Transmetropolitan on grounds of artistic merit or quality. They can stand toe to toe with pretty much anything in any medium.
But I'm not in favour for the kind of artistic snobbery that looks down on superhero comics as having no merit either. A lot of people who only read Western comics would not piss on a pile of superhero comics to put out a fire. They look down on it so much. Personally, I can enjoy the latest Wes Anderson or Terence Malick movie as well as rewatch Die Hard for the 12th time, if you catch my drift.
Most Marvel/DC is pretty straight genre stuff, with healthy doses of sci fi and fantasy. It's popular entertainment, but can also be done really cleverly and artfully. I mean people eat up the Marvel movies, yet I've ready so many superhero comics that deal with the genre so much better than what most of these movies can even come close to.
He was sarcastic, but I get the point in all three continents, lol. I love me some Euro comics, but I agree that once in a while I come across something that gets too "artsy" for me tastes.
Superhero stuff is completely unappealing to me. There's usually no real story there... it's just the same trope over and over again. But really, I think the biggest issue for most manga fans is the constantly changing artists, etc. Manga has a continuity that you just don't see in Western comics.
With that being said, when I was in college, a friend introduced me to Vertigo and I loved the stuff I read from BKV as well as Fables. Recently read some Preacher as well. I have yet to find any other American comic as interesting as the stuff that Vertigo releases.
Caveat, I don't read manga with any regularity now either (and haven't for the better part of a decade), but this was my mindset when I read a lot of it and was completely uninterested in Western comics (I'd never read a single one until Y The Last Man).
With that being said, when I was in college, a friend introduced me to Vertigo and I loved the stuff I read from BKV as well as Fables. Recently read some Preacher as well. I have yet to find any other American comic as interesting as the stuff that Vertigo releases.
Caveat, I don't read manga with any regularity now either (and haven't for the better part of a decade), but this was my mindset when I read a lot of it and was completely uninterested in Western comics (I'd never read a single one until Y The Last Man).
This is pretty big sticking point for me as well, and one of the most glaring flaws of superhero comics versus their Japanese analogue, battle shounen:
What a superhero fight typically looks like, from what little I've seen here and there:
Meanwhile, in Japan:
EDIT: With individual frames to make it more clear what I'm talking about:
(Obviously, not every manga artist can be Murata Yuusuke, but I feel that, in general, Japanese artists just have a better grasp of motion than their Western counterparts.)
That's mostly a consequence of the format. Comics in overall have less pages to work with compared to manga and graphic novels, so they need to compress the action into less panels. This led into a comic artists developing a different way of representing action scenes over the years, by making individual panels show as much movement as possible.
So I mentioned several pages ago now that my inability to appreciate western comics (specificaly meaning super hero ones) was because I cannot identify with the heroes themselves. However, I have no problem at all with Doctor Who (the show). My question is: are the Doctor Who comics worth reading?
When the topic of Star Trek or Star Wars or James Bond is brought up, no one is so obtuse as to defend the entirety of the property. Within each fandom are distinct groups who prefer these or those entries in the series, and aren't shy about vaunting it and disparaging rival entries/groups.
However, I don't get the same impression with superhero fans. When someone makes a sweeping remark about Bat or Supes, especially with regards to the whole "endless reboots" thing, comic fans seem to take it personally and are quick to point out that one doesn't have to read all of Batman, and that there are some very great Batman stories, etc etc, missing the point that it's the principle of the thing (with regards to reboots) that people have trouble with. And yet, many superhero fans here freely admit that most of the genre is trash. It's this sort of hypocrisy that I really find distasteful. It's like only superhero fans are allowed to criticize the superhero industry.
I know Astro Boy was created in the 50s, but it seems like the golden age of Manga was the 70s-90s. That's when most of the best selling series debuted. The equivalent period for American comics would have been the late 50s to early 80s.
I have no interest at all in American comics. So many reboots, universes, ...I like series you can pick up and just finish up, or a whole bunch of stuff that is standalone. Something like Watchmen would probably fit me better.
I read a bit of manga. But very few that interest me at the moment.
Franco-Belgian stuff on the other hand, that is heaven for me. So many amazing series from TinTin to the Smurfs to XIII to Spike and Suzy. So I own about 1200 of them.
It might also be a matter of convenience. Franco-Belgian comics are naturally everywhere here, but manga is too and translated into French/Dutch if I wanted that. Comics on the other hand are very niche products.
I read a bit of manga. But very few that interest me at the moment.
Franco-Belgian stuff on the other hand, that is heaven for me. So many amazing series from TinTin to the Smurfs to XIII to Spike and Suzy. So I own about 1200 of them.
It might also be a matter of convenience. Franco-Belgian comics are naturally everywhere here, but manga is too and translated into French/Dutch if I wanted that. Comics on the other hand are very niche products.
captainnapalm
Member
Sorry, don't know. I haven't read any of those. IDW has a pretty solid reputation for doing licensed stuff, though, so it might be worth a try.
Parallax
best seen in the classic "Shadow of the Beast"
Its still a bit odd that distancing from capes is ok when people are too confused to even give them a shot. I like creator driven works and feel that some should stay gone rather than try to make a cash play on them (planetary is my number one "do not fuck with" book) but there is so much amazing storytelling within the capes genre that its odd to me to just write them all off. There are so many fans of the young justice show that would most likely enjoy the series it takes inspiration from.
I can only speak for myself, but it's less about not understanding the principle, but more about understanding it's not as big a barrier to reading the material as some believe. And I know that just from personal experience. If it really is such a problem that someone can't get into it, that's obviously their prerogative. But for those who have an interest but feel intimidated, I feel that as someone who was in their shoes not too long ago, I can at least try to put some of their fears at ease by relating how exaggerated the whole "infinite reboots, spinoffs, and universes" issue is.
And the sort of "hypocrisy" you're talking about exists in every fandom to some degree. Really unfair to call superhero fans alone out for it.
It's actually one thing that capes do share with Shounen manga: the constant distancing and the inability to recognize that there is some good to great storytelling in the genre.
I didn't, as I mentioned earlier:
I merely bringing this up here because this is a thread about comics and the discussion veered toward the superhero side of things. I recognize that it's omnipresent in all fandoms.Myself said:
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
If people disparaged Star Trek over the quality of the Aminated Series, you sure bet people would jump in and say you don't have to watch/read all of Trek.
I think you've got a real strawman going on, or perhaps you don't understand that you can like a thing for its good parts, and judging it by all of it is pointless. You contradict yourself above, saying that at least Trek/Bond fans wouldn't defend everything in the body of work, and then criticizing comics fans for doing the same thing.
Most of *any* genre is trash. it's Sturgeon's Law at work. You just seem to want to dismiss good superhero comics because they don't have a coherent canon, which as I said is true for any franchise property.
Trek/Star Wars/Bond and superhero comics are all *exactly the same* this way. Even the fans.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
You guys know you can just follow a specific writer and find some pretty self-contained, well-written stories about specific heroes/teams by just looking at their individual runs?
Like when people tell me that they don't like superhero comics because there's however many decades of stories, it makes me sad that someone would completely overlook the Ed Brubaker Captain America run (my favourite comic of all time) or Mark Waid's Daredevil just because the character has a long history that they don't want to get into.
Like when people tell me that they don't like superhero comics because there's however many decades of stories, it makes me sad that someone would completely overlook the Ed Brubaker Captain America run (my favourite comic of all time) or Mark Waid's Daredevil just because the character has a long history that they don't want to get into.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I agree with you, but the crossover stuff really turns me off. I quit Brubaker's Cap when Civil War invaded it.
Tight overall universe continuity w/annual crossovers sucks. I really like the Silver/Bronze Age model of comics being mostly self-contained with an occasional guest-star or reference.
Here are my posts in this thread, cutting out the stuff entirely unrelated to the topic at hand.
I have tried my best to keep my manga-biases out of my posts, so to accuse me of dismissing superhero comics with a strawman is rather offensive. For the most part, I'm trying to explain why manga-readers have hard time getting into superhero comics, and if it seems like I'm dismissing superhero comics in my latest posts, well, it's hard to convey an argument without understanding its main point, so it was a mistake on my part to not distance myself from it more.
You have convinced me of one thing though, which is that this "pick and choose" fandom thing is the inevitable final state of many large multi-media franchises. But this is merely an observation, and does not vindicate the phenomena at all. On the contrary, it's more evident to me now than ever that this is a recurring problem in American entertainment industries, where popular series are co-opted and turned into a brand name to sell more of that series, despite having long abandoned their roots, to the detriment of their respective industries because genres and mediums are misrepresented by these titanic cultural juggernauts to the point where true creativity is being overshadowed, as is evidenced by superheroes dominating the discussion in this and many other similar threads.
Then I'd probably find those fans just as annoying if I participated in their fandoms.
So I actually read through the whole thread now and there seems to be a lot of generalizing on both the manga and western comics sides. People really don't seem to be aware of the sheer variety that exists in comics from all regions. Western comics are not all superheroes. Manga are not all shounen fight epics and fanservice romance. Maybe I'm lucky enough to live near a comic book shop that stocks a god variety of both American comics and manga, but just one slow browse through a comic store can be mind blowing. Better yet, just take one look through the Manga Community thread here on GAF.
That seems to be the biggest problem with comics -- too many people generalize them and too few people understand their breadth. It'd be like saying summer blockbusters represent all film. Any of you guys see that report Fox news did on today's comics a couple years back? It reflected how the general public's perception of comics is largely stuck in the 60's. I guess the same happens for comic readers looking into another culture's comics. I don't know shit about European comics, Manhwa, or Manhua.
On art, I've pretty much given up on art an accepted how incredibly diverse it can be, on both sides. My problem with art preference is that the first comic book I really followed was Blade of the Immortal, and I don't know of many artists -- western or eastern, who can beat that.
I mean, this image is representative of the general quality of the comic. Just imagine roughly 200 issues/chapters of this:
That seems to be the biggest problem with comics -- too many people generalize them and too few people understand their breadth. It'd be like saying summer blockbusters represent all film. Any of you guys see that report Fox news did on today's comics a couple years back? It reflected how the general public's perception of comics is largely stuck in the 60's. I guess the same happens for comic readers looking into another culture's comics. I don't know shit about European comics, Manhwa, or Manhua.
On art, I've pretty much given up on art an accepted how incredibly diverse it can be, on both sides. My problem with art preference is that the first comic book I really followed was Blade of the Immortal, and I don't know of many artists -- western or eastern, who can beat that.
I mean, this image is representative of the general quality of the comic. Just imagine roughly 200 issues/chapters of this:
I can understand not being into Marvel/DC, but comics are so much more than that. I see a lot of people bringing up slice of life. In that case, I would suggest looking into Essex County, by Jeff Lemire. Not a super long read, and rather incredible.
Go to a comic book store or something. You will find a lot of intriguing, non-superhero stuff.
Go to a comic book store or something. You will find a lot of intriguing, non-superhero stuff.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
First, I get wanting a holistic fiction experience with an actual endinng. I prefer it myself.
I used the term strawman specifically to refer to how you want to judge superhero franchises for something they never attempted to be (finite, consistent, contained) *and( wanted to judge to fans of those franchises for not judging them the same way you do. It's like saying you like sci-fi films and then complaining that sitcom fans don't judge sitcoms by the same criteria. I think you've done a very poor job keeping your manga preferences out of the discussion, and even if you had but still used such a strawman, I don't know why pointing it out would be offensive.
Second, I think ascribing the franchise-bloat specifically to "western" media is another example of your bias. Didn't Space Crusier Yamoto and Godzilla do the same thing exactly? Anything that gets popular enough to go multi-media and lives long enough to be rebooted/"re-imagined" will have the same thing happen. I don't see how that's Western.
Last, I don't see Western comics being all photo-realistic obsessed, although that's certainly been dominant during periods of superhero comics. Again, I think that's your bias showing. Sandman, which I think you said you read, encompasses at least three distinct styles for instance. The majority of the run might fall under realistic, but the opening arc and the Wake were certainly not.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Not sure why so many are lumping in European comics with American comics. If anything Euro comics have much more in common with Manga then US comics.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I see them as particularly distinct from either, but I'd say they have more in common with American non-superhero comics than any manga that I have read.
Lynd7
Member
Modern manga basically started in the 40's with Osamu Tezuka and his contemporaries really making it into a huge medium, although there were other earlier creators. Like I said before, I think Manga matured and diversified much quicker than American comics thanks to the likes of people like Tezuka.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
This is why I find them similar, at least in the mainstream ones.
1. Creator owned - Both Japanese/France/italian comics are largely owned by their creators.
2. Limited run series
3. Wider choices of subject matter
4. Wider acceptance by the general public.
One Piece, Dragon Ball, Akira, and many more have a lot in common with with french comics. Maybe it's just me by see a lot of similarities.
BTW murata has a livestream. He streams himself working on actual One Punch man pages.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nebu-kuro1
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
And a lack of a comics code, too, I am sure.
1950s comics in the US got fairly varied, before the clampdown. Not just what the code prohibited, but the publishers most willing to make interesting stuff had their cash cows killed, and went they folded their breadth of output was lost, too.
That doesn't matter, because it's not how the medium presents itself to outsiders. It's no coincidence that every time this topic pops up, people come in talking about their distaste for reboots and superhero comic fans chiming in to say that that's not the alpha and omega of comics and it's not really why people enjoy comics in the first place. It may be that, as fans, you guys have reached a compromise with the big publishers so that you can remain comic book fans without being driven insane, but this is invisible to outsiders. Do not forget what the thread topic is about, which is exploring the reasons why some manga readers avoid comic books, and vice versa.
I am trying to explain the perspective of the manga reader, not arguing that it is objectively correct.
This is accurate, I apologize for that.
You cannot even compare superhero comics and manga in this way. While you might be right that in some distant future, we'll see One Piece/Naruto/Bleach rebooted, this is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, which is that superhero comics, as they are now, are rife with reboots. This is how things are in the present day. I make no claims as to whether or not will remain the same in the future, nor do I see any point in considering such hypotheticals.
You're thinking of The Kindly Ones, which was the penultimate collection, and went completely off the rails for the arc that deserved photorealistim the most, possibly even moreso than The Wake. That made me really angry honestly. There are times when photorealism is appropriate for the subject matter and times when it's completely extraneous.
Winterfang
Banned
Harder to find it free online
Not enough waifus
Too little incest
Not enough waifus
Too little incest
I kid, I kid.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Those first three apply to non-superhero American stuff as well, and I'd add that the genre choices, tone, and art styles are more similar between Euro comics and US comics. Crime and Sci-Fi comics in particular.
I'd say this is mostly due to the influence of those Euro creators on the indy scene in the US. If Brian K Vaughn hasn't read French noir and sci-fi, I'd be very surprised.
Frustrated_Grunt
Member
With the big 2 industries at least, I enjoy being able to pick up a self-contained story for any western comic series. You can drop in and out anytime you want, only needing a paragraph or two of exposition that's on the first page of every comic book (for Marvel at least).
I also feel like there's more variety in the art in western comics.
I used to read Manga all the time in high school, but now it's only for special circumstances, like if one of my friends really recommends it to me or something.
I also feel like there's more variety in the art in western comics.
I used to read Manga all the time in high school, but now it's only for special circumstances, like if one of my friends really recommends it to me or something.
Fbh
Member
I like both.
But as far a western comics go I only like to stick with the ones that focus on one single story (say, the walking dead).
I find it sort of annoying how so many superhero comics have like 10 paralel stories/universes running at the same time. You can't just have one Batman story as there is one Berserk story... no, there is Batman, The Dark Knight, Batman and Robin, Batman
etective Comics, Batman Incorporated, Batman Arkham Unhinged, etc.
It's annoying to keep up with and I sort of don't care enough to start reading each of the 30 different storylines to see which one I like.
It also sort of reduces the impact of events.
In single story mangas/comics it's easier to care: "Omg, the one and only goku died" or "omg this one character in watchmen died"
In superhero comics I just don't care: "OMG Peter Parker died... sort of... one of his versions... I mean... there are still like 20 other versions of him that are alive... but this Peter Parker of this universe died...though they might reboot this franchise by next year.. but still OMG"
But as far a western comics go I only like to stick with the ones that focus on one single story (say, the walking dead).
I find it sort of annoying how so many superhero comics have like 10 paralel stories/universes running at the same time. You can't just have one Batman story as there is one Berserk story... no, there is Batman, The Dark Knight, Batman and Robin, Batman
etective Comics, Batman Incorporated, Batman Arkham Unhinged, etc.It's annoying to keep up with and I sort of don't care enough to start reading each of the 30 different storylines to see which one I like.
It also sort of reduces the impact of events.
In single story mangas/comics it's easier to care: "Omg, the one and only goku died" or "omg this one character in watchmen died"
In superhero comics I just don't care: "OMG Peter Parker died... sort of... one of his versions... I mean... there are still like 20 other versions of him that are alive... but this Peter Parker of this universe died...though they might reboot this franchise by next year.. but still OMG"
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
First, thanks for acknowledging, that's specifically what I meant by strawman. As I said, I don't begrudge you your preferences (I generally share them), I just found it weird to apply them to others.
As for me, I don't mind reboots in theory, and like a zillion versions of things. But what I don't like (to the point of giving up) is the emphasis on a shared universe, to the point where every book has to adhere to a tone and a timeline. Some of my favorite superhero comics are 1960s Superman comics, which technically exist in a shared universe had almost nothing to do with it in any given story, and was it's own little Superverse with its own insane internal logic. Very entertaining to read, impossible in the modern paradigm.
My point about franchise-bloat is that when something is expected to be ongoing *and* apprears in multiple media, that will happen, and it's not a "western" thing, it's a thing (and I gave two Japanese examples). I know of a million more Western examples, but then again, I'm not immersed in Japanese culture. That I could name a couple with the little exposure I've had tells me it's a phenomenon that is not "western."
As for me, I don't mind reboots in theory, and like a zillion versions of things. But what I don't like (to the point of giving up) is the emphasis on a shared universe, to the point where every book has to adhere to a tone and a timeline. Some of my favorite superhero comics are 1960s Superman comics, which technically exist in a shared universe had almost nothing to do with it in any given story, and was it's own little Superverse with its own insane internal logic. Very entertaining to read, impossible in the modern paradigm.
My point about franchise-bloat is that when something is expected to be ongoing *and* apprears in multiple media, that will happen, and it's not a "western" thing, it's a thing (and I gave two Japanese examples). I know of a million more Western examples, but then again, I'm not immersed in Japanese culture. That I could name a couple with the little exposure I've had tells me it's a phenomenon that is not "western."
I read American comics, following about 20 ongoings now.
Mostly superhero comics (in fact, only 1 that's not), but I still enjoy them nonetheless.
However, the amount of series that I read is a drop in the bucket compared to the number of Japanese comics I read.
The lack of variety is my main problem with the US comic industry.
I know there aren't only superhero titles, but of course it's the majority. The few non-superhero stories are still mostly serious titles as well.
I don't know about every single comic released in a month, but to my knowledge, there are no slice of life titles, no sports titles, no cooking titles, few pure comedy titles (that aren't action titles), few romance titles, and so on.
Most everything is based around fantasy or sci-fi, some crime titles, and little else.
And to my knowledge, there are no US titles (serious or fanservice) that are strictly about things like LBGT characters, or other "touchy" themes. Maybe there'll be a few characters in larger stories, but not the sole focus.
Mostly superhero comics (in fact, only 1 that's not), but I still enjoy them nonetheless.
However, the amount of series that I read is a drop in the bucket compared to the number of Japanese comics I read.
The lack of variety is my main problem with the US comic industry.
I know there aren't only superhero titles, but of course it's the majority. The few non-superhero stories are still mostly serious titles as well.
I don't know about every single comic released in a month, but to my knowledge, there are no slice of life titles, no sports titles, no cooking titles, few pure comedy titles (that aren't action titles), few romance titles, and so on.
Most everything is based around fantasy or sci-fi, some crime titles, and little else.
And to my knowledge, there are no US titles (serious or fanservice) that are strictly about things like LBGT characters, or other "touchy" themes. Maybe there'll be a few characters in larger stories, but not the sole focus.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
The US industry is pretty fucked.
There's a lot of what you are looking for, but not as ongoing titles. Anthologies or stand-along graphic novels.
Unfortunately, even as a fan I find them hard to find. Non-genre stuff is hard to market effectively and the non-serial nature means that you can't just find a monthly stream of it.
One of my all-time favorite comics is slice-of-life, I named my son after it.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1277252.The_Complete_Alec
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7518210-alec
That looks fantastic. And a very good point.
There's a lot of what you are looking for, but not as ongoing titles. Anthologies or stand-along graphic novels.
Unfortunately, even as a fan I find them hard to find. Non-genre stuff is hard to market effectively and the non-serial nature means that you can't just find a monthly stream of it.
One of my all-time favorite comics is slice-of-life, I named my son after it.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1277252.The_Complete_Alec
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7518210-alec
That looks fantastic. And a very good point.
curlyfriski
Banned
Speaking of hipster shit...
For anyone who is sick of "generic" manga art, please check out Taiyou Matsumoto's work. He's an excellent example of the diversity there is in manga if you venture away from the familiar names. You might have to spend a bit of time wading through trash to find the worthwhile stuff, but that's true of any medium.
ShinRPGamer
Member
I can't really speak about European comics, if only because I haven't read much of them. But American Comics, particularly superhero comics I just can't get into for a variety of reasons.
Character Designs: All the men have ridiculous amounts of muscle and wear Spendex and a cape while the women all the breasts above a C-cup and wear Stripperiffic outfits. Very little variety overall and makes can easily amount to palette swaps.
Continuity: Okay so their is one world where things take place? Okay. No wait, you're telling me they are now multiple universes with different events going on at once...erm okay... Hold on now you're saying that this long story they made that took them 5 years is now being retconned and didn't happen. Oh geez thanks for wasting my time then.
Art: Western comics in general tend to look worse than Manga if only because Manga is less likely to look saturated and confusing to follow. In addition, many series in Western can switch from one author to another, and the visuals can change too much.
Bang for you buck If I recall correctly one issue that costs 2.95 will only have 30 pages. This one I might be off my mark on.
Genre: Most of American comics are superhero comics as stated above.
Here's what makes Manga so appealing in my mind.
Genre[/B: ]Shouen not your thing? How about some Shoujo? Prehaps some Slice of life or Horror? There's a lot more variety here.
Continuity: Usually just one straightforward continuity. Exceptions only occur when a story needs to have alternate timelines.
Character Designs: Far more variety. Even a Manga with the most absurd designs have more variety than comics.
Price: general rule is that a Manga with 180-200 pages will be 11-12 dollars in North America. That same value for American comics will only get you 120 pages. Again the latter part of this argument might be off my mark.
Character Designs: All the men have ridiculous amounts of muscle and wear Spendex and a cape while the women all the breasts above a C-cup and wear Stripperiffic outfits. Very little variety overall and makes can easily amount to palette swaps.
Continuity: Okay so their is one world where things take place? Okay. No wait, you're telling me they are now multiple universes with different events going on at once...erm okay... Hold on now you're saying that this long story they made that took them 5 years is now being retconned and didn't happen. Oh geez thanks for wasting my time then.
Art: Western comics in general tend to look worse than Manga if only because Manga is less likely to look saturated and confusing to follow. In addition, many series in Western can switch from one author to another, and the visuals can change too much.
Bang for you buck If I recall correctly one issue that costs 2.95 will only have 30 pages. This one I might be off my mark on.
Genre: Most of American comics are superhero comics as stated above.
Here's what makes Manga so appealing in my mind.
Genre[/B: ]Shouen not your thing? How about some Shoujo? Prehaps some Slice of life or Horror? There's a lot more variety here.
Continuity: Usually just one straightforward continuity. Exceptions only occur when a story needs to have alternate timelines.
Character Designs: Far more variety. Even a Manga with the most absurd designs have more variety than comics.
Price: general rule is that a Manga with 180-200 pages will be 11-12 dollars in North America. That same value for American comics will only get you 120 pages. Again the latter part of this argument might be off my mark.
SliceSabre
Banned
This post does it very good job of summing up my feelings.
I don't understand how a story suddenly becomes a "waste of time" because of what some later story does. For me, if I enjoyed it, then it was time well spent.
This is a good question. I get not liking crossovers or retcons or whatever, but those things don't really matter if you just want to read the odd X-Men story or especially if you're reading lesser known characters.
curlyfriski
Banned
The idea of superheros (secret identities, costumes, fighting for justice) never appealed to me. Plus the knowledge that the stories are going to reset themselves at some point in the future bugs me.
Marvel has never had a universe reboot. There's also non-Marvel/DC heroe books like Savage Dragon and Invincible.
Not picking on you, but I just noticed that even with all these comic fans in here, none of us bothered to point this out before and your post just kind of gave me an "in" to say something.
Superhero comics are full of waifus. DC just revamped one of their most popular ones.
She even looks 15 now despite being in grad school! Perfect waifu material!
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