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[Mr.Wreckless]

He is allowed to do many things. He is not allowed to shoot someone fleeing off his property while begging for mercy.

This isn't rocket science.

I break into your house, punch your wife, kick your son in the head, then start running with a couple of your possessions. As soon as I turn my back to flee are you going to say "whelp, he is fleeing and I'm not in danger so it's best to let him go".

 

[LosDaddie]

Lets be honest here, the lives in question aren't worth very much. Not all life is valuable, especially when they willing invade a person's home to steal their possessions. This might have been an extreme reaction, but I won't be losing and sleep here unless an investigation shows something else happened to place blame on the home owner. Don't fucking break into peoples homes, it isn't hard.

Wow, apparently the couple had robbed the house two times before.

Yeah. Cant say I feel sorry for her, or that I'll lose any sleep over this story.

 

[NimbusD]

That's not the point. It doesn't matter if it's justified or not, it was an obvious high-risk situation that she voluntarily put herself in. Just because it was wrong to murder her doesn't mean she wasn't also incredibly stupid and partially at fault. Both sides can be wrong.

I don't get this. Obviously the girl is in the wrong. No one is saying she wasn't. No one. Justice was deserved, but murdering someone who's not an imminent threat and is in fact running away from you is fucking disgusting and not justice. How anyone could argue otherwise is mind boggling to me.

Not all situations are the same, yes a burglary can happen in a way that the home owner is justifiable in killing the intruders, but this doesn't seem to be anywhere near that. It's not even like it was in the heat of the moment where you could argue that he was going on instinct, the woman had time enough to tell him that she was pregnant and run away. He had time to consider that and say, "eh fuck it" and shoot her twice.

One of the saddest things about this is that people are cheering this guy on as if murder is an acceptable action for someone breaking the law because, uh, guns.

This is so sad.

 

[Cat Party]

In this thread we defend thieves who assault an 80 year old man.

:neogaf.gif:

I'm defending the rule of the law.

 

[DY_nasty]

Yeah he was so seriously injured that he was released from the hospital in less than a day.

worked for zimmerman

 

[alfredofroylan]

And the boyfriend or whatever left her behind?

 

[Toxi]

I break into your house, punch your wife, kick your son in the head, then start running with a couple of your possessions. As soon as I turn my back to flee are you going to say "whelp, he is fleeing and I'm not in danger so it's best to let him go".

If I kill him, I certainly am going to jail for it for my violent response.

Hard as it is to believe, killing someone is not something to be taken lightly.

 

[The Silver]

Robbing an angry old man multiple times? She was playing russian roulette and lost.

 

[sprsk]

Sorry to hear that.

Unfortunately, posters on GAF likes to hound on rape analogies and it's a sure fire way for people to dismiss your argument (by jumping to conclusion.)

No offense to you regarding my earlier comment.

Indeed, as someone who has been robbed a couple times i can tell you it was a bummer and a nuisance but definitely not like i had been violated and it didn't have any lasting psychological effects. I just got new locks and moved on. Though I'm not here to tell someone what they should feel, having been raped repeatedly could color your experience a bit, though.

At any rate it still doesn't justify whats going on here.

 

[Winterfang]

So it sounds like she was no longer on his property and that it could no longer be argued that she was a threat to him. Isn't that just manslaughter then?

I think Murder applies in this case. Multiple shots in the back are not something that usually happens on accident. Doesn't look like the old man cares, he wanted her dead.

Edit: Ooh they kept robbing the same man? Rookie mistake. Like Animals, being territorial is one of our more basic and aggressive instincts. Once they violated his space, they should had being prepared for the man to take certain actions against the intruders. It's still murder but they made a big mistake going there yet again.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Don't rob people's houses brehs. Sad story.

 

[TheContact]

I break into your house, punch your wife, kick your son in the head, then start running with a couple of your possessions. As soon as I turn my back to flee are you going to say "whelp, he is fleeing and I'm not in danger so it's best to let him go".

You forgot the part where you beg for your life and your child. Then I tell you to not move until cops arrive or I shoot. How is that outcome vs murder to you?

 

[clearacell]

Sorry to hear that.

Unfortunately, posters on GAF likes to hound on rape analogies and it's a sure fire way for people to dismiss your argument (by jumping to conclusion.)

No offense to you regarding my earlier comment.

No I get why people dismiss male rape victims, that's why it's difficult for those stories to come out because society responds in the manner of people in this thread. How can you seek help when no one thinks you can be a victim?

Anyways having had been robbed it's the same power struggle thing going on....you feel helpless, you feel violated, and to this old guy it's happened multiple times and they haven't been thrown in jail and they could possibly rob you again because you are an 80 year old, weak dude? I understand his mindset, personally I would have just held that pregnant lady at gunpoint and do a citizens arrest, but I am 30 years old and capable, not 80 and feeble.

Edit: I dont mean having your house broken into and not seeing it happen, I mean getting robbed. Apparently these 2 people were still in his house and knocked him down, he saw them in the process.

Edited again for clarity -_-

 

[RSLAEV]

I break into your house, punch your wife, kick your son in the head, then start running with a couple of your possessions. As soon as I turn my back to flee are you going to say "whelp, he is fleeing and I'm not in danger so it's best to let him go".

Yes. Maybe you would call an ambulance for your punched wife and kicked son-or at least check on them to make sure they're okay.

 

[speculawyer]

In this thread we defend thieves who assault an 80 year old man.

:neogaf.gif:

Can you point to someone defending them?

Saying it is improper to shoot them is not defending them.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

Says someone who's CLEARLY never been raped.

You speak as if there isn't a basis for correlation between reactions to the two incidents but you would be wrong. Traumatic events such as robbery, assault, and abuse are fairly common catalysts for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. The experience doesn't have to be the same to have the same emotional outcome.

Call the police and your insurance agent.

Police can't undo the emotional trauma of a robbery. You lose more than the value of your possessions when someone violates your home. I went from sleeping 7-8 hours a night to sleeping 3-4 at a time max after my motorcycle was stolen and the problem didn't go away even though the bike was recovered.

 

[Bloodrage]

In this thread we defend thieves who assault an 80 year old man.

:neogaf.gif:

In this thread, sociopaths attempt to exercise the "right" to use revenge violence any given chance.

 

[LosDaddie]

Says someone who's CLEARLY never been raped.

Whoops

 

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

Touchy situation to have an opinion on but she shouldn't have invaded his home or this situation wouldn't have happened.

Dude is ice cold though and shouldn't have just murdered her like that.

 

[GaimeGuy]

In this thread we defend thieves who assault an 80 year old man.

:neogaf.gif:

In this thread we defend a ruthless unremorseful murderer.

:neogaf.gif:

 

[Minion101]

The robber knows where the old man lives and the old man must forever think about getting revenge shot.

 

[Yaboosh]

Don't rob people's houses brehs. Sad story.

Yep.

What he did was wrong, but it is dangerous shit to break into people's homes. I am victim blaming, but she clearly shares blame with Murdery McMurderson.

 

[Game-Biz]

All 3 people involved seem like really terrible people.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

The agressive strawmanning going on both sides in this thread is giving me a headache.

 

[Aurongel]

Honestly, they were taking their lives into their own hands the moment they broke into his home so I'm not completely heartbroken with this outcome. The victim pursuing them and killing her on a side street will almost definitely land him on the wrong side of the law as well.

Can't say I side with anyone here.

 

[shoplifter]

Police can't undo the emotional trauma of a robbery. You lose more than the value of your possessions when someone violates your home.

This.

We were robbed while at work. The guy(s) caved in the back door in broad daylight. It took my wife two months to be able to sleep at night. My kids still ask at least once a week if the bad guys are coming back eight months later.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for them. Don't rob people, don't get shot.

 

[Mr.Wreckless]

You forgot the part where you beg for your life and your child. Then I tell you to not move until cops arrive or I shoot. How is that outcome vs murder to you?

See the thing is, in order for you to be able to hold me at gunpoint while you go make a phone call I have to believe you will shoot me. After robbing you twice in the past I'd be pretty sure YOU wouldn't shoot me. I'd walk off laughing at you.

 

[OJdaKiller]

Says someone who's CLEARLY never been raped.

When dumbass comments backfire.

 

[Yaboosh]

Honestly, they were taking their lives into their own hands the moment they broke into his home so I'm not completely heartbroken with this outcome.

Same with if someone is trying to broker a massive drug deal and gets shot up in the process. Or a gang member getting shot over dealing in another gang's territory. The killing is murder, but the victim was engaging in some dangerous shit. I find it hard to feel as awful as if an innocent was killed.

 

[Mdeezy]

What a mean old bastard. Stuff you can get back.

 

[TheContact]

See the thing is, in order for you to be able to hold me at gunpoint while you go make a phone call I have to believe you will shoot me. After robbing you twice in the past I'd be pretty sure YOU wouldn't shoot me. I'd walk off laughing at you.

Come on. He could have held her at gunpoint and told her to come inside and wait until the cops come. She begged for her life. She believed she would be shot. You admit you wouldn't. What are you trying to get at here?

 

[NimbusD]

The OP article link isn't working and I can't watch the video right now. I see people mentioning that this couple robbed the same person twice, but how do we know that? Was he just robbed multiple times and assumed it was the same people?

 

[HiResDes]

What if they come back? He was getting robbed multiple times by them. The one that got away could still come back.

Call the police

 

[Deleted member 17706]

That's a straight up revenge killing, waaaaay disproportionate to the crime committed.

Old guy is a menace to society if he's willing to behave that way.

What if they come back? He was getting robbed multiple times by them. The one that got away could still come back.

Nope. You don't get to just kill people because you are afraid of them. That's not part of the societal contract.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Dumb old man is going to die in prison. WTF is wrong with people?

 

[KHarvey16]

Basically in the US you have licence to kill anyone who robs your house even if they are no threat anymore and running away.

No you don't.

I break into your house, punch your wife, kick your son in the head, then start running with a couple of your possessions. As soon as I turn my back to flee are you going to say "whelp, he is fleeing and I'm not in danger so it's best to let him go".

I might be more concerned about my injured wife and child but that's just me. Clearly your quest for punishment is more important.

 

[satori]

Did he just announced he has 20 large in that safe? Good lord old man you are full of no fucks were given.

 

[lucebuce12]

The OP article link isn't working and I can't watch the video right now. I see people mentioning that this couple robbed the same person twice, but how do we know that? Was he just robbed multiple times and assumed it was the same people?

He says they had robbed him twice before, apparently they were face-to-face during the robbery, he told them to check out the garage, take what they want, they didn't expect anything to happen so he got a gun, they started running and he shot the woman twice.

 

[yellow submarine]

You do realize that people turn to crime mostly out of desperation right? It's like they thought it would be fun to break into some dude home. Poverty, lack of education, these things lead to crime. Just because they steal things doesn't make them automatically worthless to society. It means society failed them.

Independent of this particular issue: Sometimes, society failed them. Other times, people are just brigands. If only they tugged harder on their bootstraps etc.

 

[hwalker84]

edit:

Looking into the story it seems like they may have robbed him twice before and he was tackled and held down when he opened the door. Opinion changing.

 

[Toxi]

This reminds me of that home invasion entrapment double murder thread where people kept trying to convince me that the two dead bodies were criminals and should be put to justice.

At least, that's the only reason I can imagine for why they'd be talking more about them robbing a guy than him shooting them.

 

[Winterfang]

That's a straight up revenge killing, waaaaay disproportionate to the crime committed.

Old guy is a menace to society if he's willing to behave that way.



Nope. You don't get to just kill people because you are afraid of them. That's not part of the societal contract.

I wouldn't go that far, he seems like a menace to the people that keep breaking into his house and stealing his stuff. He is going to jail anyway, he won't be a menace to anyone else.

 

[PhantomHound]

Would this count as a double murder because she is pregnant? Or would it depend on how old the fetus is?

 

[Amir0x]

wow he's not even remotely remorseful. I mean from his own words, it's clear he should be charged.

This is not about breaking into people's houses. It's about the fact she was fleeing, and she was begging for her life, and he decided to shoot her in the back anyway even when she was no danger to him. it's a crime, and fucked up, and just because you don't like robbery (and no one does) doesn't make it OK.

 

[Aurongel]

This reminds me of that home invasion entrapment double murder thread where people kept trying to convince me that the two dead bodies were criminals and should be put to justice.

The Byron Smith killings aren't even comparable because they were premeditated and this was not.

In the eyes of the law, that is a big, big distinction.

 

[kurtrussell]

Meh. Whether or not she deserved it, she was well aware of the risk when she decided to break and enter. She was doubly moronic for doing it whilst pregnant.

Whether what happened is ultimately right or wrong, the fact remains that she picked a soft target that for all she knew could have a heart attack and die from shock of the robbery. She showed no concern for the potential implications of her crime, so why should everyone expect the 80 year old man to?

Regardless, if I was going to rob a house, I sure as shit wouldn't choose one in a state where I knew it was acceptable to shoot intruders.

 

[Kettch]

Police can't undo the emotional trauma of a robbery. You lose more than the value of your possessions when someone violates your home. I went from sleeping 7-8 hours a night to sleeping 3-4 at a time max after my motorcycle was stolen and the problem didn't go away even though the bike was recovered.

If you think shooting and killing a pregnant woman in the back is going to help you sleep better, you have some serious unrelated problems.

 

[Tallshortman]

Terrible decisions by everyone involved. Don't fucking rob people and not expect some to react by shooting, especially if you're going to rob the same fucking person multiple times. With that said, the guy should be prosecuted for manslaughter.

 

[Bloodrage]

This reminds me of that home invasion entrapment double murder thread where people kept trying to convince me that the two dead bodies were criminals and should be put to justice.

To be fair, they were still criminals. But it was also premeditated murder.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Everyone loses in these kind of pursuit shooting scenarios. The robbers invited disaster on themselves no matter their motivation. But in this culture the old man will be seen by many as not merely defending himself but a righteous hero delivering justice.