Ferguson: Police Kill 18yo Black Male; Fire Gas/Rubber Bullets Into Protesting Crowds

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Really getting tired of people playing the "it's the south" card. You can't go to google and find a slew of bullshit like this happening elsewhere in the country. Fucking hell... NYPD anyone?

This shit is not going to end as long as people living in large cities continue with this bullshit fantasy that all the racists are in the "deep south." Lived in TN and FL, didn't get any slurs thrown my way until I lived in DC.

Yep.

I am lucky enough to have gotten 25 years in without knowingly being discriminated against (I live in Philly and have traveled up and down the East Coast) but I'm not about to sit back and act like shit isn't fucked up in tons of spots all over. Just because it hasn't happened to you or those around you doesn't mean it doesn't happen or is being exaggerated.
 
in U.S. cities its fairly good and IS a melting pot. outside of major cities it starts to depend on a lot of factors. this incident happened in MO, which is in the deep south, so while im not trying to generalize and give the south any more of a bad rap, its not the most racially open minded part of the U.S. a lot of historical prejudice is still alive and well, thats not to say that it isn't very diverse and a great place in certain areas though.

Missouri is in the deep south?

Have you looked at a map recently? Missouri is almost never considered part of any "depth" of the south.

It was associated more with the north during the civil war, in fact:

USA_Map_1864_including_Civil_War_Divisions.png
 
I'm now taking bets on how long it takes someone to link to the "Color of Crime" or some other source relying on it, to demonstrate how blacks are significantly more likely to commit crimes than whites.

The over/under is at 5 posts.
We need Dr. Cox - - <ahem> Bradlums back!
 
I'd presume 'Asian' excludes middle eastern, pakistani, bangladeshi, or anyone who looks like Muslim?

The census considers "white" to be European and Middle Eastern. People from South Asia are lumped in as "Asians".

It's kind of a weird set up actually.
 
Really getting tired of people playing the "it's the south" card. You can't go to google and find a slew of bullshit like this happening elsewhere in the country. Fucking hell... NYPD anyone?

This shit is not going to end as long as people living in large cities continue with this bullshit fantasy that all the racists are in the "deep south." Lived in TN and FL, didn't get any slurs thrown my way until I lived in DC.

that's fine but i have an opposite anecdote to counter yours. my point wasn't in throwing the south under the bus, it was that historically the south has been at the center of a lot of America's racial issues with black Americans. we can look at the great migration, civil rights, etc. its all based in part around the south's history with racism and the treatment of blacks. no one is saying that racism donst exist everywhere but if i was to tell a non-U.S. citizen what part of the country was likely to be the most racist by generalizing i would tell them the south.
 
Thanks I was just about to post this.

It says at the bottom right of the image Ferguson police dept. isn't that usually where the source is?

It seems so. If people want to stop being irresponsible and quoting the secondary source, I'd appreciate it. Can someone verify the statistics and quote the primary source? Always better that way, thanks.
 
maybe he wants totals, not percentages

for some reason

Yes. Because if a total of 4 arrests are made out of 21,111 people, and 3 are black that doesn't necessarily mean blacks are targeted.

The numbers would need to be run to figure all that out.

And I'm not defending anyone I'm just saying, if you can show the data as significant then there should be no doubt the police department is being racist.
 
that's fine but i have an opposite anecdote to counter yours.

What does your anecdote counter? You have an anecdote that proves that a racist power structure isn't in place in DC? LA? Chicago? NYC? Do share.

my point wasn't in throwing the south under the bus, it was that historically the south has been at the center of a lot of America's racial issues with black Americans. we can look at the great migration, civil rights, etc. its all based in part around the south's history with racism and the treatment of blacks. no one is saying that racism donst exist everywhere but if i was to tell a non-U.S. citizen what part of the country was likely to be the most racist by generalizing i would tell them the south.

And no one was asking for that generalization, you just volunteered it for who knows what reason. (while misplacing MO in the "deep south")

Where did most of the race riots occur in the 60's and 70's? How about the 80's or 90's? Wasn't the south. So making that "well the South is the most racist because of history" comment is an incredibly stupid nonstarter. Who gives a shit which area of the country is the "most racist." The country as a whole has a race problem that we're still working on solving, and again, this bullshit pretense where the race problem isn't really an issue in large cities is unhelpful, asinine and frankly, destructive to the cause.

This anger isn't all aimed at you, but for anyone who keeps towing that line. I've seen it repeatedly stated here, all the while we have threads on stop and frisk, Oscar Grant and Sean Bell. What sense does that make?
 
I didn't say they were investigating the riot,but it's a damned good reason to be involved with the shooting investigation.

I know, but your presumption that they are primarily concerned with the fact that there was a riot reflects your preoccupations. You keep trying to change the subject from the death to the rioting, as if the rioting is a bigger issue. I don't know why you're more preoccupied with people rioting over yet another young black man being killed than you are about the fact that yet another young black man has been killed. But you are. If you weren't, you wouldn't keep trying to present that as the issue here.

It seems more likely, given the fact that in 2012 forty-two percent of the FBI's total civil rights caseload involved color of law issues including excessive force, false arrest and fabrication of evidence and failure to keep from harm, given that the federal government is already monitoring thirteen municipalities because of widespread abuses of the aforementioned, given that there have been dozens upon dozens of black men killed in similar fashion in the last few years and this has resulted in a situation where the police investigation is going to be viewed as inherently untrustworthy, it makes more sense to argue that this is about a) making sure that the local investigation is trustworthy, b) lending credibility to whatever findings that the investigations ultimately come to. The riots fit into that analysis, but it's reductive to attempt to claim that the riots are why the FBI is coming.
 
Really though this could have happened almost anywhere. I'm not sure there's anywhere this would have happened that it would have really been shocking.
 
I know, but your presumption that they are primarily concerned with the fact that there was a riot reflects your preoccupations. You keep trying to change the subject from the death to the rioting, as if the rioting is a bigger issue. I don't know why you're more preoccupied with people rioting over yet another young black man being killed than you are about the fact that yet another young black man has been killed. But you are. If you weren't, you wouldn't keep trying to present that as the issue here.

It seems more likely, given the fact that in 2012 forty-two percent of the FBI's total civil rights caseload involved color of law issues including excessive force, false arrest and fabrication of evidence and failure to keep from harm, given that the federal government is already monitoring thirteen municipalities because of widespread abuses of the aforementioned, given that there have been dozens upon dozens of black men killed in similar fashion in the last few years and this has resulted in a situation where the police investigation is going to be viewed as inherently untrustworthy, it makes more sense to argue that this is about a) making sure that the local investigation is trustworthy, b) lending credibility to whatever findings that the investigations ultimately come to. The riots fit into that analysis, but it's reductive to attempt to claim that the riots are why the FBI is coming.


So you don't believe the riot has anything to do with their involvement in the investigation? Because as far as I know/remember up until the riot (yesterday) the county and the city were the only ones involved.

Do you really think a riot in a major city isn't going to force FBI involvement in the exact thing that caused it (the murder)?

And I'm not changing the subject to anything. I'm addressing posts as I see them.
 
Why are you even aiming for someone's head with a rubber bullet? Seems dangerous thus contradicting the point of using rubber bullets in the first place as well as ineffective.

Could be he did aim at the head, or was he in a crowd rioting or whatever? Maybe they just fired into the crowd or something. I don't know.
 
So you don't believe the riot has anything to do with their involvement in the investigation? Because as far as I know/remember up until the riot (yesterday) the county and the city were the only ones involved.

Do you really think a riot in a major city isn't going to force FBI involvement in the exact thing that caused it (the murder)?

And I'm not changing the subject to anything. I'm addressing posts as I see them.

Special Agent Cheryl Mimura, a spokeswoman for the FBI's St. Louis office, said they have been keeping an eye on the case since since the beginning.

"We've been reviewing the matter (since Saturday), today we officially opened an investigation into a potential civil rights violation," she said, noting that the decision was not motivated by community outrage. "Regardless of the media attention or the public&#8217;s attention to this matter, this is something that we would routinely do."

Source
 
Could be he did aim at the head, or was he in a crowd rioting or whatever? Maybe they just fired into the crowd or something. I don't know.
Both of these are pretty dangerous and foolish. Shooting rubber bullets indiscriminately into a crowd is not a good idea unless you goal is to hurt people.
 
Why does your anecdote counter? You have an anecdote that proves that a racist power structure isn't in place in DC? LA? Chicago? NYC? Do share.

well i live in Chicago, its highly segregated in some parts of the cities but the suburbs are fine and so are a lot of neighborhoods in the city. i was never called a slur while livng in the city, but have in MD and SC. so anecdotes seem useless in proving a point about racism. and i can tell you DC, LA, CI, are all likely more socially liberal than most southern cities at least on the surface. and no im not saying racism power structures dont exist in these cities, idk why you took it as some absolute.



And no one was asking for that generalization, you just volunteered it for who knows what reason. (while misplacing MO in the "deep south")

Where did most of the race riots occur in the 60's and 70's? How about the 80's or 90's? Wasn't the south. So making that "well the South is the most racist because of history" comment is an incredibly stupid nonstarter. Who gives a shit which area of the country is the "most racist." The country as a whole has a race problem that we're still working on solving, and again, this bullshit pretense where the race problem isn't really an issue in large cities is unhelpful, asinine and frankly, destructive to the cause.

This anger isn't all aimed at you, but for anyone who keeps towing that line. I've seen it repeatedly stated here, all the while we have threads on stop and frisk, Oscar Grant and Sean Bell. What sense does that make?

and yes the country as a whole has a racism issue but ill gladly take living in a major U.S. city over some rural area somewhere in the U.S. although im sure with that statement someone will crucify me for making generalizations about rural areas.. my point was that socially, it seems that the idea of a melting pot holds truer for major cites, not saying they don't still have major issues, but it seems more diverse and eclectic groups of people and lifestyles are accepted in these major cites and as a result are treated better as whole. im not denying these places still don't have issues but to say that every place in the U.S. is on the same level in terms of racial equality or acceptance seems a bit disingenuous.
 
So you don't believe the riot has anything to do with their involvement in the investigation? Because as far as I know/remember up until the riot (yesterday) the county and the city were the only ones involved.

Do you really think a riot in a major city isn't going to force FBI involvement in the exact thing that caused it (the murder)?

And I'm not changing the subject to anything. I'm addressing posts as I see them.

Nope. The FBI is usually involved in incidents like this. They can take over the investigation if they believe the local government can't handle it. FBI handles corruption and potential race related crimes and here it may involve both.
 
that's fine but i have an opposite anecdote to counter yours. my point wasn't in throwing the south under the bus, it was that historically the south has been at the center of a lot of America's racial issues with black Americans. we can look at the great migration, civil rights, etc. its all based in part around the south's history with racism and the treatment of blacks. no one is saying that racism donst exist everywhere but if i was to tell a non-U.S. citizen what part of the country was likely to be the most racist by generalizing i would tell them the south.

While I don't consider Missouri or more specifically Saint Louis to be part of the south I think that the argument isnt even applicable to the current situation. Ferguson and the surrounding area are not really representative of Missouri or St. Louis as a whole. The area this is all taking place in is a sort of wasteland wrapped up in an enigma, even by St. Louis standards. Not just the city of Ferguson but all of North County. Im not sure how it happened but the whole of North County has become this place that the rest of St. Louis ignores and/or avoids. There are no notable restaurants or businesses or anything of note. It has always been a really depressing place to me in that it just feels like it is dying a slow death. People stay away from East St. Louis because it is dangerous. People stay away from North County because they like to pretend it doesn't exist. Basically if you don't live in North County you don't go to North County, unless you have to go to the airport.
 
Special Agent Cheryl Mimura, a spokeswoman for the FBI's St. Louis office, said they have been keeping an eye on the case since since the beginning.

"We've been reviewing the matter (since Saturday), today we officially opened an investigation into a potential civil rights violation," she said, noting that the decision was not motivated by community outrage. "Regardless of the media attention or the public’s attention to this matter, this is something that we would routinely do."

Source


Well, I stand corrected then. Thank you.
 
Both of these are pretty dangerous and foolish. Shooting rubber bullets indiscriminately into a crowd is not a good idea unless you goal is to hurt people.

But what if a riot group is throwing bricks/bottles/etc at officers injuring them while they are just protecting private property and maintaining order what do you think they should do? I would say tear gas to get the group to disperse and have police presence on every corner of the rioting area.
 
While I don't consider Missouri or more specifically Saint Louis to be part of the south I think that the argument isnt even applicable to the current situation. Ferguson and the surrounding area are not really representative of Missouri or St. Louis as a whole. The area this is all taking place in is a sort of wasteland wrapped up in an enigma, even by St. Louis standards. Not just the city of Ferguson but all of North County. Im not sure how it happened but the whole of North County has become this place that the rest of St. Louis ignores and/or avoids. There are no notable restaurants or businesses or anything of note. It has always been a really depressing place to me in that it just feels like it is dying a slow death. People stay away from East St. Louis because it is dangerous. People stay away from North County because they like to pretend it doesn't exist. Basically if you don't live in North County you don't go to North County, unless you have to go to the airport.

damn thats depressing.
 
But what if a riot group is throwing bricks/bottles/etc at officers injuring them while they are just protecting private property and maintaining order what do you think they should do? I would say tear gas to get the group to disperse and have police presence on every corner of the rioting area.

But what if the police were threatening, yelling obscenities, calling people animals so they can have a reason to shoot somebody. Or what if they actually shot at peaceful protesters and started the riot theirselves. What if citizens are actually trying to protect themselves from a violent heavily armed gang?
 
Oh look, some good apples engaging the community in a way that will deescalate tensions, Clearly theyve been well trained in public relations, courtesy and service.

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