There hasn't been one way or the other and I think that's what this thread is really about. I don't want to sound like some "entitled" gamer but I would just appreciate full disclosure on what is and what is not a timed exclusive. Sony gave that to us today. Microsoft did not.
Sony and MS on the term 'Exclusivity'
- Thread starter sn00zer
- Start date
There hasn't been one way or the other and I think that's what this thread is really about. I don't want to sound like some "entitled" gamer but I would just appreciate full disclosure on what is and what is not a timed exclusive. Sony gave that to us today. Microsoft did not.
burnside13
Member
I've read exclusives as we know them will probably be a thing of the past in the next few years. Gaming will be all the better for it.
I don't really care for getting all divisive over the terminology. If you're on neogaf you know what's happening, the average consumer will get fooled by marketers tactics.
I don't really care for getting all divisive over the terminology. If you're on neogaf you know what's happening, the average consumer will get fooled by marketers tactics.
Femmeworth
Banned
The title is a bit misleading, I thought someone had interviewed both of them or they had made statements. How meta.
And you can always weasel yourself out semantically, no?
Like, 'Tomb Raider is exclusive to XB1' -> 'Tomb Raider is exclusive to one specific console' -> In the scope of video game consoles, TR will be exclusive to XB1'. Which leaves PC version possible.
So it can be said that the question is how prominent is that the second interpretation and if it's possible semantically or with how people parse the sentence. Game is exclusive to [Brand of console]. By listing that brand of console you possibly change the truth conditions of the sentence to be true as long that that specific console is the only console that has the game.
Yeah, it's weird. And i can't see something like HBO announcing a new show 'only on HBO' to be interpreted as the show airing on regular network TV after 6months or being anywhere else that doesn't in the end make money for HBO.
Like, 'Tomb Raider is exclusive to XB1' -> 'Tomb Raider is exclusive to one specific console' -> In the scope of video game consoles, TR will be exclusive to XB1'. Which leaves PC version possible.
So it can be said that the question is how prominent is that the second interpretation and if it's possible semantically or with how people parse the sentence. Game is exclusive to [Brand of console]. By listing that brand of console you possibly change the truth conditions of the sentence to be true as long that that specific console is the only console that has the game.
Yeah, it's weird. And i can't see something like HBO announcing a new show 'only on HBO' to be interpreted as the show airing on regular network TV after 6months or being anywhere else that doesn't in the end make money for HBO.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
I don't remember hearing Sony say fake exclusivity, always console exclusivity (meaning also on PC) or first on PS4.
Then you have Bloodborne and Wild which are definitely PS4 exclusive.
Then you have Bloodborne and Wild which are definitely PS4 exclusive.
John Caboose
Member
They both want to say "exclusive" as many times as possible. Be it "exclusively first on consoles" or "console exclusive" or "exclusive content" or whatever else.
It's a good idea to just assume that most non first-party games are eventually coming out for PC and/or the other console.
Getting up in arms about this stuff like in the Tomb Raider thread of yesterday is just... I dunno. Pretty pathetic.
It's a good idea to just assume that most non first-party games are eventually coming out for PC and/or the other console.
Getting up in arms about this stuff like in the Tomb Raider thread of yesterday is just... I dunno. Pretty pathetic.
This seems to just turned out to be a huge misunderstanding but still funny
STILL my dream
Exploratory
Banned
Post #6. That's from today. I'm not going to go through E3 and find every example though.
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=873482
The fact that a gaming enthusiast forum is often confused and baffled by what "exclusive" means just proves that the term is being abused. Exclusive by definition means:
an item or story published or broadcast by only one source. putting modifiers on that like "timed" or "console" just negates the actual meaning of the word. The fact that modifiers are even being applied to the word just baffles me.
It should go back to only being used for things that are permanently locked down to a specific platform. This deceitful BS only makes revile the companies using it a little more each and every time I hear it.
an item or story published or broadcast by only one source. putting modifiers on that like "timed" or "console" just negates the actual meaning of the word. The fact that modifiers are even being applied to the word just baffles me.
It should go back to only being used for things that are permanently locked down to a specific platform. This deceitful BS only makes revile the companies using it a little more each and every time I hear it.
MGS5 XB1 EXCLUSIVE!!! Oh, how we laughed when Larry tried that one.
I seriously don't see how anybody could ever trust Microsoft's use of the word 'exclusive' at this point after the Dead Rising 3/Ryse and now apparently Tomb Raider shit.
Their smoke and mirrors over the past year have soured me on them completely.
I seriously don't see how anybody could ever trust Microsoft's use of the word 'exclusive' at this point after the Dead Rising 3/Ryse and now apparently Tomb Raider shit.
Their smoke and mirrors over the past year have soured me on them completely.
In Service
Member
PR teams are going to do what PR teams do. You can't have an inquest over every PR release.
If you're concerned, address your comments to the DEVs and ask them to comment immediately after a MS or Sony announcment. Better chance of getting a comment out of the devs even if we accept that MS/Sony will try and lock them down.
Oh wait, this is GAF, maybe we do that
If you're concerned, address your comments to the DEVs and ask them to comment immediately after a MS or Sony announcment. Better chance of getting a comment out of the devs even if we accept that MS/Sony will try and lock them down.
Peaty. Of the nature of peat.
Moneyhatting does give a net increase of budget. They don't just take all the money, spread it out on the boardroom table, and writhe around in it naked.
Well, except at EA. They probably do that there.
Devilgunman
Member
I don't think Sony care about 3rd party exclusive anymore. PS4 is flying off the shelf and as long as there are games for it, exclusive or not, everything is fine.
eyeball_kid
Member
P.T. Barnum, the infamous circus showman and huckster.
I hope that Sony continues with the clarity on this issue. The "exclusive(*)" stuff just makes the companies look juvenile and a little desperate, and to mislead the public and your customers just for a quick PR beat is not a great long-term strategy.
It's weird how many seem to have forgotten about that
Console war. Console war never changes.
travisbickle
Member
Enter Tomb Raider 2 was anounced exclusive for XB1 next holiday.
Which if you look at that, looks like TR is only on XB end of story. Which turns out not to be totally true and its a timed exclusive.
I said in the last thread, "exclusively" is an adverb so better placed next to the verb "coming" in that sentence.
"exclusively coming holiday 2015 on xbox."
Very PR, I've heard companies say "exclusively available [date] for [console]" before too.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Yes, I've just watched that part in the conference and it was refreshing to see. No muddied waters and no confused or conflicting messages. The complete opposite of this Tomb Raider bullshit.
Yeah confused by the whole thing too, I think it is timed for now, simply because I just can't see MS making it crystal clear it's exclusive when asked, but they're just using the same specific wording which can be taken in many ways.
Surprised at Spencer too, the dude who was seen as "white knight", (Not that I ever believed it but at E3 he seemed promising), basically just said "The deal with TR2 is between us and CD". So that's it? The plan is to sell consoles and TR2 by being misleading and deceptive. Microsoft honestly can't help themselves to act this way anymore can they?
Microsoft being Microshit I guess, doing this hasn't done them any favours, it's just damaged their already not in he best of shapes rep again, and it was "deduced" or "leaked" it may be timed on the same day, so they didn't even get away with deceiving the Internet anyway.
Surprised at Spencer too, the dude who was seen as "white knight", (Not that I ever believed it but at E3 he seemed promising), basically just said "The deal with TR2 is between us and CD". So that's it? The plan is to sell consoles and TR2 by being misleading and deceptive. Microsoft honestly can't help themselves to act this way anymore can they?
Microsoft being Microshit I guess, doing this hasn't done them any favours, it's just damaged their already not in he best of shapes rep again, and it was "deduced" or "leaked" it may be timed on the same day, so they didn't even get away with deceiving the Internet anyway.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
That's the way it should be imo.
Anything less than that is false advertisement in my eyes.
dragonelite
Member
This kinda...
But its easy to say because im pretty sure i will own both consoles or have both console in the household, little brother wants a ps4 soon.
Darkstorne
Member
Look at it this way, when pressured for comment Xbox execs including Spencer are refusing to drop the "for holiday 2015" addendum. They refuse to clarify, and refuse to reword the obviously deliberately ambiguous statement.
If this was a full, permanent, exclusive for the Xbox, do you think they would be this ambiguous and evasive? Of course not. They'd be more than happy to smile and say "Yes, this is exclusive to Xbox. It won't be releasing on any other platform than Microsoft's". Instead they're squirming around, refusing to elaborate or explain what they mean, and refusing to drop the "for holiday 2015" line.
EdwardTeach
Member
I thought Sony were very clear, which is a good thing.
Yeah Sony were pretty clear yesterday with the new stuff shown
https://twitter.com/PlayStationEU/status/499246339805687808
One thing I learned from all these years is, if the sentence contains other stuff along with the word "exclusive", than it's probably a PR way of saying timed/conditional exclusive.
So maybe we need to define a new word that defines "lifetime exclusivity" no matter what other things you put.
Here's a suggestion: alwexclusive
"Uncharted 4 is alwexclusive to PS4, launching in 2015."
Ok, that's not going to stick.
- "Exclusively on [console], in 2014" -> It will come to other platforms in 2015
- "Will launch excusively for [console]" -> It will come to other platforms after launch.
- "Exclusive on [console], in Japan" -> It will come to other platforms outside of Japan.
So maybe we need to define a new word that defines "lifetime exclusivity" no matter what other things you put.
Here's a suggestion: alwexclusive
"Uncharted 4 is alwexclusive to PS4, launching in 2015."
Ok, that's not going to stick.
Give Microsoft time, I'm sure they will secure a way to make these titles as 'exclusive' as well
Darkstorne
Member
Perma-exclusive. Would be as hilarious as the perma-death term =)
Death isn't really death in video games unless it's perma-death. Exclusive isn't really exclusive unless it's perma-exclusive.
Maybe they are still figuring out the details like they did with Titanfall. I remember when Titanfall full lifetime exclusivity was announced some people were sure we'd see Titanfall 2 this fall on PS4. No matter what companies say, it will always be spun into something different. All we know is that TR is coming holiday 2015 (November 2015 - January 2016) and it's gonna be exclusive for at least that time frame. Everything else is just speculation. First to console (used by both at GC) means PC first or same day. And then timed exclusive. Pretty much every indie game will end up on all platforms. They are too niche to be more than timed exclusives. See Below.
Sony is definitely listening and changing to minimise negative f/b whereas it seems MS just like shooting themselves in the foot (even arrogant at this stage after all they've messed up on).
I said before, 'releasing 2015 exclusively on Xbox' does not mean the same as 'exclusively on Xbox releasing 2015' - for me that's the givaway that it's a timed exclusive.
I said before, 'releasing 2015 exclusively on Xbox' does not mean the same as 'exclusively on Xbox releasing 2015' - for me that's the givaway that it's a timed exclusive.
I don't see where the problem is here, Tomb Raider has been announced as an exclusive for xbone at no point have any details came out to point towards a timed exclusive. I think there is more confusion around the people claiming Silent Hills is an exclusive ps4 title, PT is an exclusive marketing campain in association with Sony not and is in no way a reflection of the game as KojPro are multiplatform only. Just seems more people are more butthurt than confused.
The word exclusivity has been on an interesting ride since the announcements of XB1 and PS4.
I made a thread about the term "exclusive console debut" a while back and how Sony wasnt being upfront about how exclusive certain games were. This was especially true when it came to indie titles. This carried into E3 2014 with line after line about exclusive content, pre alphas etc.
Enter Tomb Raider 2 was anounced exclusive for XB1 next holiday.
Which if you look at that, looks like TR is only on XB end of story. Which turns out not to be totally true and its a timed exclusive.
But I noticed something this time about Sony's conference that for the first time they dropped the "exclusive console debut" and just said "come first to console". They actually made it very clear after a montage about what games were exclusive and which were not. far different than their earlier PS4 conferences.
Got to 33:29
I'm not sure what made Sony change the wording, I do wonder if there was backlash from last E3 about 'exclusive content' and such. I think MS will follow suit in the future make it clear which are timed exclusives and which are not after this hub bub. Both companies have been criticized for their use of the word exclusive, but I think Sony caught on after this E3, and MS just saw it business as usual, especially after Sony's earlier showings.
Microsoft must've said "first to console" like 15 times during their conference. They also bookmarked exclusives and console exclusives the same way Sony did. So there really isn't any difference in how they've using this language. TR ends up being a special case because Sony doesn't have any exclusive 3rd party titles that are timed exclusive.
I suppose you can't *really* state something is perma-exclusive with total certainty; I suspect Microsoft were expecting Mass Effect to be permanently exclusive at first, but times and deals changed. Rights transfer, companies get bought, agreements are made. Generations down the line, back catalogues are revisited in a different light. Sword of Vermilion isn't exclusive to Genesis any more!
That's somewhat the point, though. It's not been explicitly stated that it's a timed exclusive - but the people involved are out and out refusing to phrase things in unambiguous ways that make it fully clear that it's not a timed exclusive. You have to inquire why they won't do that.
FranXico
Member
Updated from 4 months ago.
Just a heads up, The Golf Club is not an Xbone exclusive, it will also release on PS4 later this month (pending certification).
So its purely speculation based on nothing? The advertising seems pretty clear, coming 2015 exclusively on xbox all other games that were timed exclusives were advertised as so, Square have even made a statement saying that they are working in partnership with xbox on this game and that ps4 can look forward to a seperate game. If the game does well I would not put it past square releasing a definitive remastered edition for the ps4 to get past any exclusivity clauses held between themselves and microsoft though.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
They didn't pay SE all that money to start telling us the truth. The entire point of the exclusivity is to make people think they need an Xbox to play Tomb Raider. Let us know that we can wait and they'll waste whatever ungodly sum they had to cough up.
Canis lupus
Member
Yep, that was pretty refreshing seeing Jim Ryan say that on stage.
I guess this is as good a place as any to post this.
Updated from 4 months ago.
Is there a site that updates this?
Has Microsoft acknowledged what the exclusivity around TR is? No. That's what the OP is talking about. MS can't even be bothered to actually state whether it's timed or not for it.
And this, in a nutshell, is why people will be critical about MS for this move. The only reason to be so vague about things is because the actual truth is something they don't want getting out. And frankly, why support a company that pulls that BS?
I'm sure I'll get "all other video game companies do this". They don't. As seen by the evidence in this thread.
the squirming when directly asked directly points to the fact its timed, and its done to trick people.
why would Spencer say "In Holiday 2015, Rise of the Tomb Raider will be exclusive to Xbox. That's the comment." when asked about full exclusivity? Surely he could just say it is only coming on xbox one rather that repeating holiday 2015 everytime the game and exclusivity is mentioned. This is from a CVG interview "Asked to clarify the specific terms of the Rise of the Tomb Raider deal, Spencer wouldn't be budged on the "Holiday 2015" line." Do you need anything else to start thinking it is a timed exclusive?
Gorki247
Member
I suspect that TR is definitly meant to be a full exclusive but it hasn't been fully agreed or signed off yet behind the scenes.
Maybe there is a condition tied to a full (console) exclusive; like a sales target, and unless that's fulfilled it's only timed. That would explain the vague message and why they won't just come out and say it.
Maybe there is a condition tied to a full (console) exclusive; like a sales target, and unless that's fulfilled it's only timed. That would explain the vague message and why they won't just come out and say it.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Sony have an exclusive title = Everything is great, good on them
Microsoft have an exclusive title = Evil, pure evil
Microsoft have an exclusive title = Evil, pure evil
demosthenes
Member
I thought so to.
gross over simplification.
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