Ferguson: Police Kill 18yo Black Male; Fire Gas/Rubber Bullets Into Protesting Crowds

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TheChocolateWar said:
Here ya go my friend.

http://scholarship.law.missouri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2429&context=mlr
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Thanks. Will read over this. I wonder how many other states have similar laws about physically resisting an unlawful arrest. It seems like as a citizen, it would be extremely difficult to actually resist an unlawful arrest under these grounds without the presence of several witnesses that would be able to corroborate your story about the failure for police to identify themselves.
 
Tamanon said:
Did you want the leader of a country not to call for peace in his own country?
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No, I mean someone literally called out that quote pretty much word for word :p

Fake Edit: Found it!

FreedomFighter said:
You know he is.

He'll tell the negroes to sing negro spirituals, mention the obligatory police "bad apples", try to get people to focus on "healing and calm", say nothing about police posing as military troops, may even try to get people to trust police again... I don't know.

I hope I'm wrong.
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commedieu said:
You need facts to give fair analysis. From your posts, you're not clear on what happened. Instead, you're just rushing for alternatives to victim blame. Its been proven that your alternative nonsense is nonsense over and over again. The journalist didn't screw up. Mcdonalds didn't order the code red. THe cops are abusing people, as they have been during the entire thing.
..
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I think you misunderstand my posts. I have made no claims about whether or not the reporters screwed up. I am explaining the charges the police are claiming against the reporters and what needs to be proved.

Speaking of proof;

Prove to me, here and now, the regional manager did not call to complain about the journalists. If such proof exists, I am more than happy to eat crow.
 
Sixfortyfive said:
By reading your post.
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Oh yeah, I see it now. Because wanting this to be resolved at a local or state level by the people involved rather than throw fuel on the fire by turning it into a national political movement that'll galvanize all the wrong people for all the wrong reasons is fear, not common sense, and the most effective way to move forward is obviously for the president of the United States to start shouting about smashing a local police department with federal force.

If the president has to comment on an issue like this prior to its resolution, it's already a lose-lose.
 
commedieu said:
You need facts to give fair analysis. From your posts, you're not clear on what happened. Instead, you're just rushing for alternatives to victim blame. Its been proven that your alternative nonsense is nonsense over and over again. The journalist didn't screw up. Mcdonalds didn't order the code red. THe cops are abusing people, as they have been during the entire thing.


edit:

Obama, you're embarrassing. The problem with our country and getting killed all the time by a broken justice system, is that no one admits that it needs work. No one that matters.

He barely condemned anyone for arresting journalists? He didn't even mention arrests. "bullying"? The fuck...
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He said violence against police is unacceptable and rioting is unacceptable and THEN said police shouldn't use strong arm tactics. Dude is defending the establishment here.
 
Corronchilejano said:
Journalists going about their day -> Screwing up? Nope.
Police Officers doing an illegal detention that under the circumstances could have finished with a few people shot -> Screwing up? Yes.

I wonder if one of 'em was black now.
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As it turns out, yes, yes one of them was. The WaPo reporter I believe, the other I have no idea.
 
TheChocolateWar said:
I am not excusing the cops for abusing their power, I am giving a fair legal analysis of both sides liabilities. The police abused their powers, and I am not supporting police. Am I not allowed to show how both sides possibly screwed up?
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I'm not sure anyone is interested in your unsourced guesses, frankly. Unless you have evidence for your various assertions, I suspect we can do without them.
 
TheChocolateWar said:
I think you misunderstand my posts. I have made no claims about whether or not the reporters screwed up. I am explaining the charges the police are claiming against the reporters and what needs to be proved.

Speaking of proof;

Prove to me, here and now, the regional manager did not call to complain about the journalists. If such proof exists, I am more than happy to eat crow.
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You're the one who made the claim that the regional manager "may have" done it. The burden of proof is on you.
 
Soo they HAVE to release the murders name eventually....? I understand why they haven't.
I mean if they do there is no way he could work there anymore... Hell I bet he was within all the other cops working the past few days there... :/ Man I hope he gets time... :( But I really doubt it....
 
The analysis for whether the general manager could give consent is another legal issue as well. I wouldn't say that his position necessarily carries the ability to give consent to use the space. Although he does have apparent authority to grant people use of the space. But then the question becomes, did he? And if he did, did he exceed the scope of his employment?
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This is a ridiculous analysis. Provided they were paying customers, and there's no evidence that they were not, then the McDonald's corporation (or the individual franchisee) itself has given them de facto consent to be on the property by opening its doors for business. Based on this, your whole argument as to whether or not the manager has the "authority" to give consent for them to be on the property is irrelevant, but I wonder if you would feel the same way if the general manager was on record for asking them to leave? Would you ponder whether or not he had the actual authority to revoke their license to be on the property?
TheChocolateWar said:
Prove to me, here and now, the regional manager did not call to complain about the journalists. If such proof exists, I am more than happy to eat crow.
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Your asking him to prove a negative?
 
Burt said:
How did you get that out of what I said?

Edit: He was late because they were trying to decide tie or no tie. Not even kidding.
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It's not even you specifically, it's just that what you said has been said in the thread quite a bit but in my eyes it's more or less political hogwash and petty technicalities, like fat in a heart artery.

After a while I just distill it down like a bittersweet brew.
 
Zantetsuken said:
It would be nice if President Obama would show a little anger, just a little.
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If he budges an inch the headlines are going to be "do we really want an angry black man running our country? I mean, just look at how hard they took slavery. It's one thing having a person of color run the land of the free - but an uncontrollable savage?"" full stop.
 
-tetsuo- said:
What exactly were you guys expecting him to do or say?
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"The militarization of the police force in America has become grossly disproportionate to the threats and criminals they're tasked with apprehending."

Or something.

You know, something substantive.

Not "America needs to heal I guess... democracy... peace and shit..."
 
EatinOlives said:
You're the one who made the claim that the regional manager "may have" done it. The burden of proof is on you.
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Schrodinger's cat my friend, until something is disproven or proven, it may both be and not be. I did not claim that the Manager did call the police. Nor did I claim he did not. Therefore he both may have and may not have. If you want to claim he did not, then the onus of proof is on you. I made no claim, either positive or negative.
 
NullPointer said:
Now is not the time for healing.

But now IS the time for those open and honest investigations. And its also the time for the cops of Ferguson to stand down and return to their responsibilities of protecting the community, not arming against it.
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Exactly.

How is this community going to "HEAL" from this? These guys shooting them with wooden bullets today, are the same ones that will be patrolling tomorrow? They are hiding the shooter name out of fears that someone might go Police on him. There is an abuse and over use of force. Reporters have been arrested. This is all severely illegal in our country. And this motherfucker mumbles through it.

Bleh, If I wasn't convinced that he is a puppet for the 1%, i'd be slightly more upset. But little to no compassion, and he was more detailed and ginger with the ISIS story. Where the real story is, they got there too late. And half the people were already gone.
 
marrec said:
"The militarization of the police force in America has become grossly disproportionate to the threats and criminals they're tasked with apprehending."

Or something.

You know, something substantive.

Not "America needs to heal I guess... democracy... peace and shit..."
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Do you not see how this would have the gun nuts int eh country going berserk?
 
TheChocolateWar said:
Schrodinger's cat my friend, until something is disproven or proven, it may both be and not be. I did not claim that the Manager did call the police. Nor did I claim he did not. Therefore he both may have and may not have. If you want to claim he did not, then the onus of proof is on you. I made no claim, either positive or negative.
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Are you purposely being obtuse or are you that clueless as to the tone of your posts?

EDIT: Nevermind tone. How about what you actually said:

TheChocolateWar said:
The news articles I have been reading stated the reason for the initial detention was a failure to identify, and the final charge was trespass. I would argue the initial detention was valid, and there was good reason to believe there was criminal trespass. McDonalds is not a place you can set up your own personal business.
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I like to think Obama heavily tones down anything he says. You can tell whenever you read going ons in more private settings that he has really strong feelings on certain subjects but has to appear impartial and calm about them, which is unfortunate.

Like, going into the Gaza thread there was an article about him basically chewing out the Israeli president but of course he has to appear that he's fully behind them and only slightly disapproving of what they're doing
 
TheChocolateWar said:
Schrodinger's cat my friend, until something is disproven or proven, it may both be and not be. I did not claim that the Manager did call the police. Nor did I claim he did not. Therefore he both may have and may not have. If you want to claim he did not, then the onus of proof is on you. I made no claim, either positive or negative.
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I'd read what the mods have to say about your posting in this thread if I were you:

besada said:
I'm not sure anyone is interested in your unsourced guesses, frankly. Unless you have evidence for your various assertions, I suspect we can do without them.
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-tetsuo- said:
Do you not see how this would have the gun nuts int eh country going berserk?
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Whoooooooo gives a shit?

He's said much more inflammatory stuff about gun nuts following the Newtown shootings anyway. If he cannot take a stance on anything for fear of reprisal from the right then he needs to shut the fuck up.
 
Not sure if he posted this earlier but:

Antonio French ‏@AntonioFrench 11s
After a night in the #Ferguson jail, I'm free. My staffers who were also arrested last night are also free. Thank you for all the support.
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neoism said:
Soo they HAVE to release the murders name eventually....? I understand why they haven't.
I mean if they do there is no way he could work there anymore... Hell I bet he was within all the other cops working the past few days there... :/ Man I hope he gets time... :( But I really doubt it....
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If/when he's charged it becomes public knowledge.
 
TheChocolateWar said:
Schrodinger's cat my friend, until something is disproven or proven, it may both be and not be. I did not claim that the Manager did call the police. Nor did I claim he did not. Therefore he both may have and may not have. If you want to claim he did not, then the onus of proof is on you. I made no claim, either positive or negative.
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I have never seen that used as an argument before, holy fucking shit.
 
ElectricBlanketFire said:
Are you purposely being obtuse or are you that clueless as to the tone of your posts?
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I think people are misreading my posts. I am as anti-authoritarian police as can be. I am more fair administration of justice for both sides, not roasting one side over the spit of public conscience and ignoring the possible follies of another. Not that the reporters did anything wrong. I do not know. But to say they did not without all the facts and completely ignore one side's claims because they are contributory in fault? That I cannot abide.

Did the police mess up? Yes, they did, and if I were barred in Missouri I would be the first in the court. Did the reporters mess up? I do not know. There is not enough evidence for me, or anyone, to say.

ElectricBlanketFire said:
EDIT: Nevermind tone. How about what you actually said:
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"A good reason to believe" is not the same as "objectively true".
 
TheChocolateWar said:
I think people are misreading my posts. I am as anti-authoritarian police as can be. I am more fair administration of justice for both sides, not roasting one side over the spit of public conscience and ignoring the possibly follies of another. Not that the reporters did anything wrong. I do not know. But to say they did not without all the facts and completely ignore one side's claims because they are contributory in fault? That I cannot abide.

Did the police mess up? Yes, they did, and if I were barred in Missouri I would be the first in the court. Did the reporters mess up? I do not know. There is not enough evidence for me, or anyone, to say.
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Blaming the victim while trying to be devils advocate is an express trip to a ban.

Trust me on this and stop.
 
This is what happens when you create a political culture where people can't be candid and call it how it is.

People would be upset at HOW the message came across rather than WHAT the message IS.
 
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