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[Ties]

When GAF had the thing against the words "bitch" and "cunt" a while back, I was personally very adamant against it, for the very same reasons people have listed in the thread. Now, obviously the word "exotic" is nowhere near as loaded, but the logic I used to justify it in my head was all the same: that the words really weren't all that bad, can have harmless connotations, and that people simply should not be so sensitive.

And really, when it came down to it, I hated the idea that I might have carelessly offended people, and if I could somehow justify their continued use, then I would be saved from the shame and embarrassment of having done wrong. I eventually realized that if I made someone feel bad, regardless of my intentions, and it is within my power to make amends and not make them feel that way in the future, the only reason I would find it difficult would be a missplaced sense of pride, and an overzealous attachment to the idea that I was, and always have been, a good person.

Ding ding ding!

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

When GAF had the thing against the words "bitch" and "cunt" a while back, I was personally very adamant against it, for the very same reasons people have listed in the thread. Now, obviously the word "exotic" is nowhere near as loaded, but the logic I used to justify it in my head was all the same: that the words really weren't all that bad, can have harmless connotations, and that people simply should not be so sensitive.

And really, when it came down to it, I hated the idea that I might have carelessly offended people, and if I could somehow justify their continued use, then I would be saved from the shame and embarrassment of having done wrong. I eventually realized that if I made someone feel bad, regardless of my intentions, and it is within my power to make amends and not make them feel that way in the future, the only reason I would find it difficult would be a missplaced sense of pride, and an overzealous attachment to the idea that I was, and always have been, a good person.

Very good post. A lot of this does have to do with humans not wanting to have to admit negative things about themselves. It is what they call the first step of recovery.

 

[Two Words]

Why not? They're immediately judging me by assessing that holding a door for them is a questionable action despite the fact that it's perfectly normal and regular in every day life for the vast majority of society. They think I'm doing something unreasonable and saying I should feel bad for doing it. And again, it's not just me, society in general has standards of what is reasonable behavior and what isn't.

To be clear, I wouldn't be yelling at the people either, I would probably just ignore them.

The whole door holding thing would need better context. If it was a simple "somebody is right behind me and I don't want it to close on her", then yes the person is reacting badly. If it was you holding the door open for her as she was a distance away and you waited for her, then I can get her issue. Maybe she has a lot of guys do that and expect it to get somewhere with her. She shouldn't snap at you if she did, but I can get it bothering her.

 

[RockTurtle]

Its one thing for an individual to prefer or not like something. Its easy enough to just say, "Ok, my bad", regardless of how reasonable you feel the complaint was. But if this is gonna be an issue on a larger scale, and what these people are asking isn't just to not be called exotic themselves, but for everybody to stop using the word as a label for a person altogether, I'm gonna need more before I can drum up the empathy to get behind it.

For instance, you're entirely right that its very easy to just apologize to somebody who was offended you held the door open for them. There's no need to get defensive in such a case. Its also easy enough to not open the door for somebody who you *know* doesn't like to have the door opened for them, just as its easy enough to not serve somebody something with mustard if you know they dont like mustard.

However, if when telling you how you offended them by holding the door open, they say something along the lines of "You should stop holding the door open for people, we dont like that!", it becomes a different situation. It becomes more than just a personal preference and turns into somebody trying to speak for everybody else and change a common courtesy behaviour into a universally offensive one.

This is where I'm at with the 'exotic' thing. I'm very willing to not call somebody exotic who doesn't like it. But until its shown that this *is* a universally(or at least largely) offensive behaviour, I'm not sure its really something that people should stop doing altogether.

this this this this.

most posters here beating the drums that exotic is a definitely offensive thing, when it's not an absolute.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

The whole door holding thing would need better context. If it was a simple "somebody is right behind me and I don't want it to close on her", then yes the person is reacting badly. If it was you holding the door open for her as she was a distance away and you waited for her, then I can get her issue. Maybe she has a lot of guys do that and expect it to get somewhere with her. She shouldn't snap at you if she did, but I can get it bothering her.

I could understand it initially bothering her as well, but unless I followed it up with something that made it look like I had any other intent beyond the common act of holding a door for another human being, I don't know why they would even bother saying anything. That's just making snap judgments off a perfectly common daily interaction and assuming the worst of someone you don't even know. Which I think most people would agree is unreasonable behavior.

 

[Two Words]

I could understand it initially bothering her as well, but unless I followed it up with something to show it was something more then the common act of holding a door for another human being, I don't know why they would even bother saying anything. That's just making snap judgments off a perfectly common daily interaction and assuming the worst of someone you don't even know.

Assuming you held it open for her with her at a distance, I gotta agree that it is kind of annoying, assuming I am not carrying anything. By distance, I mean like 5 seconds away or something. As a guy, it doesn't happen to me often, but when it does I always feel like "don't worry man, I got it". I imagine women have that happen to them a lot more and might feel the same way. So sure, she shouldn't snap at you, but I can understand her frustration even if it is a common courtesy.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Its one thing for an individual to prefer or not like something. Its easy enough to just say, "Ok, my bad", regardless of how reasonable you feel the complaint was. But if this is gonna be an issue on a larger scale, and what these people are asking isn't just to not be called exotic themselves, but for everybody to stop using the word as a label for a person altogether, I'm gonna need more before I can drum up the empathy to get behind it.

For instance, you're entirely right that its very easy to just apologize to somebody who was offended you held the door open for them. There's no need to get defensive in such a case. Its also easy enough to not open the door for somebody who you *know* doesn't like to have the door opened for them, just as its easy enough to not serve somebody something with mustard if you know they dont like mustard.

However, if when telling you how you offended them by holding the door open, they say something along the lines of "You should stop holding the door open for people, we dont like that!", it becomes a different situation. It becomes more than just a personal preference and turns into somebody trying to speak for everybody else and change a common courtesy behaviour into a universally offensive one.

This is where I'm at with the 'exotic' thing. I'm very willing to not call somebody exotic who doesn't like it. But until its shown that this *is* a universally(or at least largely) offensive behaviour, I'm not sure its really something that people should stop doing altogether.

Thank You! Pretty much how i feel about this one.

 

[Two Words]

Its one thing for an individual to prefer or not like something. Its easy enough to just say, "Ok, my bad", regardless of how reasonable you feel the complaint was. But if this is gonna be an issue on a larger scale, and what these people are asking isn't just to not be called exotic themselves, but for everybody to stop using the word as a label for a person altogether, I'm gonna need more before I can drum up the empathy to get behind it.

For instance, you're entirely right that its very easy to just apologize to somebody who was offended you held the door open for them. There's no need to get defensive in such a case. Its also easy enough to not open the door for somebody who you *know* doesn't like to have the door opened for them, just as its easy enough to not serve somebody something with mustard if you know they dont like mustard.

However, if when telling you how you offended them by holding the door open, they say something along the lines of "You should stop holding the door open for people, we dont like that!", it becomes a different situation. It becomes more than just a personal preference and turns into somebody trying to speak for everybody else and change a common courtesy behaviour into a universally offensive one.

This is where I'm at with the 'exotic' thing. I'm very willing to not call somebody exotic who doesn't like it. But until its shown that this *is* a universally(or at least largely) offensive behaviour, I'm not sure its really something that people should stop doing altogether.

Would you call somebody exotic if you don't know how they will take it?

 

[Lesath]

this this this this.

most posters here are beating the drums that exotic is a definitely offensive thing, when it's not an absolute.

And how often must you use the word "exotic"? Are you ever forced into the situation where you would need to? Really, holding a door open isn't really an apt comparison, because everybody capable of walking in two legs in any sort of civilized area is faced with the choice every single day, whereas people have gone through decades of their life without having to resort to "exotic" when describing people.

 

[ishibear]

this this this this.

most posters here beating the drums that exotic is a definitely offensive thing, when it's not an absolute.

No we are not. Stop playing victim, we are not attacking you for using the term altogether.

I don't see how it's hard to read "We don't like being called exotic" as it is instead of filling in all this bullshit so you have a reason to argue an argument that's not there. Nobody said it applies for everyone.

 

[NEOPARADIGM]

No, exotic is like calling someone strange.

There's racist undertones here and undertones of objectification as well, but all the same I think it means a bit more than "strange"; think "exotic car" for example - an exquisite, inherent beauty, even majesty is implied (Lamborghini vs., say, Yugo). The intent of its use is generally so positive, in fact, that in a sense it is the superior term to beautiful, as it would seem to mean beautiful and decidedly rare or unique, an exotic jewel.

As I said above I was taught a long time ago not to use it, and I file it away somewhere near "oriental" in my head, but just making a point, it means a bit more than "strange" or "foreign."

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Why not? They're immediately judging me by assessing that holding a door for them is a questionable action despite the fact that it's perfectly normal and regular in every day life for the vast majority of society. They think I'm doing something unreasonable and saying I should feel bad for doing it. And again, it's not just me, society in general has standards of what is reasonable behavior and what isn't.

To be clear, I wouldn't be yelling at the people either, I would probably just ignore them.

Oh cuz she might be having a bad day or whatever. I mean, we're talking about strangers, right? Who knows why a stranger react a certain way.

But once I cause discomfort or unpleasantry to someone, my reaction is usually to apologise and not try to justify my position defensively. I have no idea why someone would be offended by door-opening or certain words or even how I look at them*.

Btw I didn't assume you'd be yelling or be aggressive at all! I think you come across as a pretty decent fellow who likes to go out of his way to do nice things for other people. But yes, it's like, it's an illogical position to expect that everyone would react positively back at a given gesture, is all. So the rational thing, for me, is to let go of my pride and acknowledge and respect the other person's feelings, even if the person's feelings/ response do not make much sense to me.

It's like you say, maybe the two of you are simply not compatible, so in any case, no skin off your bones, right?

Lesath's post is glorious btw.

(*as HR person I've come across an employee who filed a complaint cuz another employee was looking at them 'funny'. it was a mess.)

 

[kamorra]

Just because some here started talking about the use of cunt.
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=494772

 

[THRILLH0]

Because the world only operates on literal definitions?

I've occasionally seen the odd hot Indian woman in a sari being told, "oooh, you're so exotic". Do you know what that really says: "you are a weird oddity in this area and/or my impression of you is defined entirely by your ethnicity".

Bullshit.

 

[stufte]

There's racist undertones here and undertones of objectification as well, but all the same I think it means a bit more than "strange"; think "exotic car" for example - an exquisite, inherent beauty, even majesty is implied (Lamborghini vs., say, Yugo). The intent of its use is generally so positive, in fact, that in a sense it is the superior term to beautiful, as it would seem to mean beautiful and decidedly rare or unique, an exotic jewel.

As I said above I was taught a long time ago not to use it, and I file it away somewhere near "oriental" in my head, but just making a point, it means a bit more than "strange" or "foreign."

This is my thought on it as well. I'd never call anything but a car or location "exotic" but I've never heard it expressed as a negative.

 

[Seanspeed]

Would you call somebody exotic if you don't know how they will take it?

When do you ever know how somebody will take anything? Somebody here reported that a girl got offended after being called 'cute'. Should we all stop calling girls 'cute' now?

 

[Sketchbag]

Because, at least, sometimes that person isn't actually foreign. So by implying they are you are marginalizing them.

That's understandable. However, we know what we all mean by exotic and foreign mixed together. Life experiences hasn't dealt that person enough time to be acclimated with that "race" so it's foreign, exotic, etc..

What? Of course there's something wrong with it! Especially if they're born in the same country as you and aren't a foreigner! That's so ignorant.

See above.

You are identifying the other for no reason. Saying someone looks different to you (not better as beauty suggests) is not a compliment.

There are lots of people attracted to foreign people. Look at how many people love an accent. We can say exotic is bad and all but for some reason people are harping to "why does it matter where they're from?" Well, a lot of the attraction people have is because of that.

 

[Sketchbag]

You're building good empirical evidence with every post

No one's building empirical evidence. We're discussing whether or not exotic is offensive or rude. I am simply stating that just because there is a negative aspect to a descriptor (like all descriptors) it doesn't merit outrage due to it being relatively benign.

 

[Lesath]

Just because some here started talking about the use of cunt.
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=494772

I personally do not base my morality on NeoGAF's moderation policy. More power to you if you do, I guess.

 

[Rest]

No

You've been there every time someone has used the term around me? Are you following me around?

 

[Broder Salsa]

Yeah I agree and all, but Fanta Exotic is fucking fantastic.

 

[THRILLH0]

If everybody else looked like them, you wouldn't think she was pretty?

Is there an issue with finding uniqueness attractive?

 

[RockTurtle]

It seems like such an odd way to describe someone. You're basically just saying they're foreign and you're ignorant.

Exotic is not something I'd ever use to describe a person. Whenever I've seen it used it's been a signifier that the person using it is a racist.

No, exotic is like calling someone strange. While some people don't mind it -- you're welcome to call me strange, or a freak -- many people do.

Exactly.

No we are not. Stop playing victim, we are not attacking you for using the term altogether.

I don't see how it's hard to read "We don't like being called exotic" as it is instead of filling in all this bullshit so you have a reason to argue an argument that's not there. Nobody said it applies for everyone.

ok . i never said i was being attacked. i am not playing victim. i am arguing that a lot of people are telling us to accept that the word is not appreciated. and that's ok. we accept that. you don't like the word. but then you have others saying the words means one thing and applying that as the entire basis behind the word. that it is strange. that it is weird.

and, as noted above and you yourself quoted someone saying, if you use the word you have some racist motive behind it, or you are ignorant, or you are referring to them as a freak . so no ishibear, i am not playing victim.

i am pointing out that people want us to accept the OTHER more negative meaning of the word outside of its common usage (which is positive) and then you say i am bringing up an argument that is not there?

 

[Sketchbag]

No, exotic is like calling someone strange. While some people don't mind it -- you're welcome to call me strange, or a freak -- many people do.

My wife calls me all sorts of names. If you called me by any of them, we'd have a problem. If you know a girl, and you know or believe she'll be fine with being called exotic, go crazy. But calling women you don't know exotic leads to a risk of you hurting someone's feelings, which I presume is not what you want to do in that situation. You'd think basic enlightened self-interest would come into play here, but some people would rather do whatever they want, regardless of who gets hurt by it -- including them -- because they are unwilling or incapable of understanding that we don't all respond the same way to the same things.

Couldn't any descriptor basically fall into the category of "don't say that when you introduce yourself? "Beautiful" and "pretty" are pushing it since, well, it gives off the creepy vibes.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

When do you ever know how somebody will take anything? Somebody here reported that a girl got offended after being called 'cute'. Should we all stop calling girls 'cute' now?

Point flew over your head, I think? Or maybe we're reading things a different way :x

What I read is "Some people might not react how you want them to. So, if you've caused someone's day to become slightly worse than better (as you had intended), just shrug it off and maybe apologise."

I didn't see "Dont ever use the word Exotic again! We'll arrest you and put you into word-prison!"

But. You know, idk. People has people's feelings.

 

[Seanspeed]

Point flew over your head, I think? Or maybe we're reading things a different way :x

What I read is "Some people might not react how you want them to. So, if you've caused someone's day to become slightly worse than better (as you had intended), just shrug it off and maybe apologise."

I didn't see "Dont ever use the word Exotic again! We'll arrest you and put you into word-prison!"

But. You know, idk. People has people's feelings.

Well Messo says in the OP:

"By definition of "exotic", you're saying they look or act out of the ordinary than from what group of people they are part of.

It really doesn't sound that good towards a person. Might have good intentions, but doesn't come across to the person on the receiving end."

So I was working under the assumption here that this was being deemed an offensive term in general and not just for very specific cases.

 

[kamorra]

I personally do not base my morality on NeoGAF's moderation policy. More power to you if you do, I guess.

This post is pretty offensive. Check you moral compass again.

 

[Lesath]

This post is pretty offensive. Check you moral compass again.

I am sorry. I assure you, I will not respond to your posts in the future.

 

[kamorra]

I am sorry, I assure you. I will not respond to your posts in the future.

Thanks, I'm not sure why I deserved the hostility in the first place but since you won't be able to answer I'll refrain from asking.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Well Messo says in the OP:

"By definition of "exotic", you're saying they look or act out of the ordinary than from what group of people they are part of.

It really doesn't sound that good towards a person. Might have good intentions, but doesn't come across to the person on the receiving end."

So I was working under the assumption here that this was being deemed an offensive term in general and not just for very specific cases.

Oh I read that as "for me (in this case, Meso),.... exotic sounds problematic"

I didn't see it as an authoritarian advice for all mankind type of thing.

Like, I think, there are a few people in the thread that says they don't mind the word or some even likes to be called "exotic"? If I'm not mistaken.

 

[Mr-Joker]

If someone in Britain calls me exotic I would be offended as I was born and raised in Britain, plus I don't like being reminded of my Pakistani roots.

 

[Sketchbag]

Point flew over your head, I think? Or maybe we're reading things a different way :x

What I read is "Some people might not react how you want them to. So, if you've caused someone's day to become slightly worse than better (as you had intended), just shrug it off and maybe apologise."

I didn't see "Dont ever use the word Exotic again! We'll arrest you and put you into word-prison!"

But. You know, idk. People has people's feelings.

I never understood this argument. It seems more self-righteous than sincere. If I legitmately said that the post I am quoting (yours) legit hurt my feelings and I feel bad, would you sincerely apologize or fake it?

 

[Rest]

ok . i never said i was being attacked. i am not playing victim. i am arguing that a lot of people are telling us to accept that the word is not appreciated. and that's ok. we accept that. you don't like the word. but then you have others saying the words means one thing and applying that as the entire basis behind the word. that it is strange. that it is weird.

and, as noted above and you yourself quoted someone saying, if you use the word you have some racist motive behind it, or you are ignorant, or you are referring to them as a freak . so no ishibear, i am not playing victim.

i am pointing out that people want us to accept the OTHER more negative meaning of the word outside of its common usage (which is positive) and then you say i am bringing up an argument that is not there?

I'm not attacking you, I don't really care if people use the word exotic if it's not illintentioned. I was just sharing my own experience, and I've never been around anyone who ever said it that meant anything other than "you're not white."

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

I never understood this argument. It seems more self-righteous than sincere. If I legitmately said that the post I am quoting (yours) legit hurt my feelings and I feel bad, would you sincerely apologize or fake it?

Apologise of course! And sincerely :O

And I've done so in the past, and on GAF

There was a thread about something or other, I forgot now. But a poster, Authentic M, got a bit riled up cuz of the tone in my posts, and I have no idea why he'd say I was passive aggressive cuz I talk the way I talk and I can't perceive how I come across to other people. In my head, I was okay? But obviously it ruined his day a bit, so I apologise.

Twice. Or thrice, maybe. I cant remember haha...

:x

 

[Lesath]

I never understood this argument. It seems more self-righteous than sincere. If I legitmately said that the post I am quoting (yours) legit hurt my feelings and I feel bad, would you sincerely apologize or fake it?

As you said, the feelings would be legitimate. I might not understand how you might have been offended, but I understand how it feels to be hurt, and therefore I would regret it. The apology would be sincere.

 

[Sketchbag]

Apologise of course! And sincerely :O

And I've done so in the past, and on GAF

There was a thread about something or other, I forgot now. But a poster, Authentic M, got a bit riled up cuz of the tone in my posts, and I have no idea why he'd say I was passive aggressive cuz I talk the way I talk and I can't perceive how I come across to other people. In my head, I was okay? But obviously it ruined his day a bit, so I apologise.

Twice. Or thrice, maybe. I cant remember haha...

:x

You do know how ridiculous that is right? You would sincerely apologize for a post you wrote with confidence and it hurt my "feelings". Isn't that an over reaction and really just mooting your own point?

As you said, the feelings would be legitimate. I might not understand how you might have been offended, but I understand how it feels to be hurt, and therefore I would regret it. The apology would be sincere.

You do not have to apologize for every thing. That way of thinking will cause nothing but confusion.

 

[Seanspeed]

Oh I read that as "for me (in this case, Meso),.... exotic sounds problematic"

I didn't see it as an authoritarian advice for all mankind type of thing.

Like, I think, there are a few people in the thread that says they don't mind the word or some even likes to be called "exotic"? If I'm not mistaken.

It pretty plainly states 'a person', so talking in general, not just for himself.

I don't like being reminded of my Pakistani roots.

I'm sorry to hear that man.

 

[Seanspeed]

EDIT

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

You do know how ridiculous that is right? You would sincerely apologize for a post you wrote with confidence and it hurt my "feelings". Isn't that an over reaction and really just mooting your own point?



You do not have to apologize for every thing. That way of thinking will cause nothing but confusion.

Eh, I donno if I'd call someone else's approach to life as "ridiculous". For me, it is more important that your feelings are acknowledged than bullheadedly argue with you why I did not mean to offend you.

Maybe it looks "ridiculous" to you, but to me, it is more irrational the other way around.

As for my post that I write with confidence, I do not think I'm nullifying my own approach. I still espouse what I wrote, but I apologise for causing you some offense, and I would refrain from imposing you with my 'way of thought' in the future. It does not mean that I will change my perspective, but it means I will acknowledge that whatever I had said might be difficult for others to agree with and I will listen to what the person has to say in return and if the person says, our approaches are incompatible, I will, of course, give the person her/his space.

 

[Two Words]

When do you ever know how somebody will take anything? Somebody here reported that a girl got offended after being called 'cute'. Should we all stop calling girls 'cute' now?

Why don't you answer the question?

Is there an issue with finding uniqueness attractive?

No. But don't expect people to take your attraction to their uniqueness as a compliment.

 

[t-storm]

Yes, being referred to as exotic. If that's your biggest problem that you take offense to, sounds like you got a great life!

 

[genjiZERO]

That's understandable. However, we know what we all mean by exotic and foreign mixed together. Life experiences hasn't dealt that person enough time to be acclimated with that "race" so it's foreign, exotic, etc.

OK, but that person being ignorant isn't an excuse for being offensive, and implying that someone who is not a foreigner is in fact a foreigner is offensive.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

It pretty plainly states 'a person', so talking in general, not just for himself.


I'm sorry to hear that man.

Yeah, but isn't it like "in his opinion, ... blahblahblah"? As in "in my opinion, I see people who use the word exotic as problematic because it makes a person feels foreign"?


Like I said, maybe we're reading it a different way :x

I see where you are coming from though, but yeah, I dont feel the same tone coming from Meso's post.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Why are people so bothered about not being able to use certain words to describe other people? Just don't do it, it's really easy.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Why are people so bothered about not being able to use certain words to describe other people? Just don't do it, it's really easy.

We're running out of words lol

But seriously is there any other word that describes Adriana Lima more perfectly than "exotic"

 

[Two Words]

We're running out of words lol

But seriously is there any other word that describes Adriana Lima more perfectly than "exotic"

Beautiful?

 

[Sketchbag]

Eh, I donno if I'd call someone else's approach to life as "ridiculous". For me, it is more important that your feelings are acknowledged than bullheadedly argue with you why I did not mean to offend you.

Maybe it looks "ridiculous" to you, but to me, it is more irrational the other way around.

As for my post that I write with confidence, I do not think I'm nullifying my own approach. I still espouse what I wrote, but I apologise for causing you some offense, and I would refrain from imposing you with my 'way of thought' in the future. It does not mean that I will change my perspective, but it means I will acknowledge that whatever I had said might be difficult for others to agree with and I will listen to what the person has to say in return and if the person says, our approaches are incompatible, I will, of course, give the person her/his space.

The bolded is why I consider these arguments to be more self-righteous than sincere. I have never met anyone with this outcome who isn't somewhat pragmatic.

It's ridiculous because the offense is ridiculous. Would be like apologizing that I hit a red light after driving past 4 green lights in a row--it's just so ridiculous.

No argument is taken seriously if the author apologizes for it and says, "I'm sorry you find it offensive"--unless it's in a glib, sarcastic manner.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Beautiful, pretty, attractive, etc. Exotic is a weird term that growing up I identified it to mean "interesting and foreign".

 

[Doc Holliday]

Beautiful?

Meh, not as good. A lot of things are beautiful.

I choose to use the Webster Dictionary description in this case.

: strikingly, excitingly, or mysteriously different or unusual

 

[A Link to the Past]

Meh, not as good. A lot of things are beautiful.

I choose to use the Webster Dictionary description in this case.

That definition sounds like fetishism, honestly.