Ferguson: Police Officer Kills 18yo Michael Brown; Protests/Riots Continue

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Shaun King ‏@ShaunKing 28m
Update :: @GoFundMe is saying the Darren Wilson campaign doesn't violate their rules for hate & they're keeping it up. OK. Lines drawn.
 
Hannity still running with the broken orbital socket claim, not surprising, typical Fox News. I used to watch it for humor, but this blatant bullshit really just irritates me.
 
slit said:
So I'm listening to the Missouri Gov on MSNBC. How in the hell did this guy become governor of a state? I never heard so many "uh, uh, uh's" from a politician ever. Then he utters a bunch of words and says absolutely nothing! Just talking in circles.
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Have you never heard Obama speak?
 
slit said:
So I'm listening to the Missouri Gov on MSNBC. How in the hell did this guy become governor of a state? I never heard so many "uh, uh, uh's" from a politician ever. Then he utters a bunch of words and says absolutely nothing! Just talking in circles.
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Politicians are always like that when they're in the middle of a big shitstorm.
 
USC-fan said:
Was that proven incorrect?

We know for a fact "the side of Wilson’s face was swollen and that he required treatment at a hospital"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-said-happened-when-michael-brown-was-killed/

Does it really matter if it was broken or not?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n95mxT1AkpI

And yes it does matter. They're purposely using false information in order to make Wilson's situation appear more dire than it actually was in order to support their views about the situation. That's not ok.
 
thepotatoman said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n95mxT1AkpI

And yes it does matter. They're purposely using false information in order to make Wilson's situation appear more dire than it actually was in order to support their views about the situation. That's not ok.
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Fiction said:
Given the 'superman punch/charging like a rhino', beaten nearly unconscious rhetoric the right is putting out, yeah it matters.

Especially because he looked completely fine in the video that was taken right after the shooting.

And he went to the hospital, yes. 'Required treatment' is still up for discussion.
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Clearly he was hit in the face at least once.

There is just a lot of misinformation out there right now. Just have to wait for the facts.

By the law I do not think it matter if he face was swollen or had broken bones. Maybe someone can correct me. That is why i ask if it matters. Guess you guys are speaking more about some kind of PR angle.
 
thepotatoman said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n95mxT1AkpI

And yes it does matter. They're purposely using false information in order to make Wilson's situation appear more dire than it actually was in order to support their views about the situation. That's not ok.
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We still don't have a lot of the facts, but even if it wasn't fractured, the fact he was assaulted instantly escalates the situation where the cop is going to draw his weapon instead of a verbal altercation where it might have stayed put. It is all part of the context, but it's just too hard to draw any conclusions about this particular piece since we just don't have the evidence to go by. We likely won't be getting any evidence publicly until it goes to trial and they aren't going to let anything out publicly during the active investigation and grand jury proceedings. Of course it raises questions and only fuels speculation, but it's something we will unfortunately have to deal with for a while.
 
A lot of stuff seems to come out into the open and this thread moves like wildfire. I've kept up with some of it. What are the facts that we know about all of this? No bias, but we absolutely know for the truth.
 
Fiction said:
How is that NOT possible? And that's not misinformation, that's a witness statement.

ANYTHING AT ALL regarding what happened from the Officer's POV is actually hearsay at the moment. The only person to come forward with any information in that regard is a friend of friend of retold what she heard. And also 'unnamed sources'
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Eye witness testimony is notoriously bad, it shouldn't be taken as fact or irrefutable. Only hard empirical evidence should be considered.
 
Fiction said:
How is that NOT possible? And that's not misinformation, that's a witness statement.

ANYTHING AT ALL regarding what happened from the Officer's POV is actually hearsay at the moment. The only person to come forward with any information in that regard is a friend of friend of retold what she heard. And also 'unnamed sources'
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I havent read that. Do you have a link?

I saw one report googling that said the " door slammed into Brown and bounced closed." I havent seen where they are claiming this cause the injury to the officer face.

Also witness statement do not make it facts. I have seem many witness statements where they stated he was shot in the back. We now know for a fact that wasnt.

Agree we do not have the whole story at this point. A lot misinformation going around.
 
Fiction said:
'Required treatment' is still up for discussion.
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"Required treatment" is so ambiguous that I'm 100% certain that Officer Wilson "required treatment," even if it was nothing more than an ice pack or a kiss from the nurse on his boo-boo.
 
Again, if I could be allowed to speculate;

Wilson and Brown get into an argument/scuffle, Wilson grabs Brown, Brown pushes off.
Wilson opens door, hits Brown, but Brown is really Colossus so it bounces off, hits Wilson in the face.

Brown begins to run, Wilson gets out, trips, smacks his face. Shoots randomly, like when Brad Pitt shot by accident in Mr. and Mrs. Smith.

Brown turns, goes WHOA HOLD THE MAYO, Wilson goes pewpewpew.
 
USC-fan said:
I havent read that. Do you have a link?

I saw one report googling that said the " door slammed into Brown and bounced closed." I havent seen where they are claiming this cause the injury to the officer face.

Also witness statement do not make it facts. I have seem many witness statements where they stated he was shot in the back. We now know for a fact that wasnt.

Agree we do not have the whole story at this point. A lot misinformation going around.
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Yes their is a lot of misinformation going around because the police department in Ferguson actively tried to help cover for the police officer in this case. You also have conservative media portraying mike brown as a black version of the hulk.
 
Fiction said:
We don't know for a fact that he wasn't. /sigh

The witness say he was fired at while he was running, jerked, turned around, put his hands up, and was shot several more times. The bullet that hit his arm the coroner said could possible have been when he was facing the officer, but it could possible have been when he was running.
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I've seen this come up so many times. You are all saints for patiently explaining it over and over and over and over. I would've given up long ago.
 
Fiction said:
Like a friend of a friend recounting what the guy who pulled the trigger said or a few unnamed sources?

I just wonder why these shady accounts of what happened are more substantial than the 6 or so unrelated witness's who came forward and all basically say the same thing, including someone who live tweeted the damned shooting.
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Jmanunknown said:
What if you have lets say at 4 or 5 witnesses who all say similar things plus you have a guy who live tweeted the shooting.
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I'm not saying anything about who is more credible or substantiated. There are numerous factors on why eye witness testimony should always be scrutinized. Everyone sees an event through a different prism. Things like this happen very quickly and details are easy to miss or misinterpret. People have adrenaline pumping, they may have other distractions or fear for their own safety that effects their ability to process the info. People will naturally try to fill in the gaps which they didn't fully catch, it's a natural human process and it doesn't mean they are biased or trying to push an agenda, just that the brain can fill it in and seem real to them.

It doesn't mean eye witness testimony should be ignored, just that it should come under heavy scrutiny. When there are numerous accounts, there are bound to be many contradictions between all of them, but it can be useful to look at the points of agreement between all testimony (assuming they haven't talked to each other about it and seeded idea's to one another) for a broad understanding of the situation.
 
BronsonLee said:
Again, if I could be allowed to speculate;

Wilson and Brown get into an argument/scuffle, Wilson grabs Brown, Brown pushes off.
Wilson opens door, hits Brown, but Brown is really Colossus so it bounces off, hits Wilson in the face.

Brown begins to run, Wilson gets out, trips, smacks his face. Shoots randomly, like when Brad Pitt shot by accident in Mr. and Mrs. Smith.

Brown turns, goes WHOA HOLD THE MAYO, Wilson goes pewpewpew.
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If this were the case and Wilson just fired randomly after getting hit in the head I feel like his aim would be far less accurate and we'd probably have bullet holes in at least one spot near the scene.
 
Kind of off topic, but I was watching Training Day and I couldn't help but think how Denzel's line probably pretty much sums up the Ferguson PD's mentality
"I'm the police, I run shit around here. You just live here!"
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There has been discussions that officers are trained to shoot to stop a threat rather than shoot to kill. I believe the meaning of shoot to stop a threat can also involve actions the prevents a suspect from dieing.
 
Orthogonal said:
I'm not saying anything about who is more credible or substantiated. There are numerous factors on why eye witness testimony should always be scrutinized. Everyone sees an event through a different prism. Things like this happen very quickly and details are easy to miss or misinterpret. People have adrenaline pumping, they may have other distractions or fear for their own safety that effects their ability to process the info. People will naturally try to fill in the gaps which they didn't fully catch, it's a natural human process and it doesn't mean they are biased or trying to push an agenda, just that the brain can fill it in and seem real to them.

It doesn't mean eye witness testimony should be ignored, just that it should come under heavy scrutiny. When there are numerous accounts, there are bound to be many contradictions between all of them, but it can be useful to look at the points of agreement between all testimony (assuming they haven't talked to each other about it and seeded idea's to one another) for a broad understanding of the situation.
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Well that puts the "scuffle at car, early shot, Brown running, shot, Brown surrender, flurry of shots" at the top of the list, as that's where most of the witnesses line up.

You can argue about the details in those actions, but the broad picture is clear by your standards. Anything else at this point has been hearsay.
 
Fiction said:
Considering we have ONLY HEARSAY from Wilson, you wouldn't be arguing so passionately for his side if you were truly just about logic and facts.
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Who said I was arguing for Wilson's side. My posts have remained neutral on the matter. I don't understand why everything has to be about being on one side or the other and if I don't fully support the view of one position that I am somehow defending or arguing for the opposite.
 
Fiction said:
Again, if you were truly about the 'facts' we wouldn't be having this conversation. And yes, you have been arguing from 'Wilson's side', what with bringing up things that have only been hearsay at this point and focusing on the nonexistent damage to the guys face.
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Uh no, I never stated Wilson was hit in the face. We know from witness testimony that there was a physical altercation at the car. How or why it was provoked is not fully understood, but that is enough to escalate the situation and become an assault on the officer.
 
Orthogonal said:
Uh no, I never stated Wilson was hit in the face. We know from witness testimony that there was a physical altercation at the car. How or why it was provoked is not fully understood, but that is enough to escalate the situation and become an assault on the officer.
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You're assuming an assault on the officer can only be made during the escalation.
 
Mr.Awesome said:
It's just a troll from anonymous. Likely using a bunch of fake ccs and a lot of the money isn't real. Their goal was to rile up Twitter and Tumblr and it worked.
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chronos4590 said:
I dont know if anyone has posted anything regarding this but

Darren Wilson the officer that shot Michael Brown down has a Gofundme support page, and it already has $165,896 of 200,000 needed goal within 4 days...


tumblr_nao80iqcuW1qzytyoo1_500.png

I've seen around the web like tumblr and twitter going around trying to bring this pages attention to gofundme.com themselves to report this page. It violates their Terms of Service and gofundme also get 5% of the tens of thousands of dollars being donated.

I think it would be good to keep spreading the word around and make sure this gains attention and report this page. As for a message you can personalize it how you want but this response is the one i've seen being used

" Your Terms of Service prohibit “items that promote… hate, racial intolerance, or the financial exploitation of a crime.” Take a look at the comments that come with the donations on this page and tell me that doesn’t violate your terms. “Support Officer Wilson” is a thin veil for people rewarding Wilson for killing a black kid."
It only takes a minute to do. I'm a bit shocked that the website hasn't taken personal action on this, but with enough messages hopefully they actually do.

Edit: I'm sorry here is the Link to contact the site http://www.gofundme.com/mvc.php?route=contact/form&pid=500_When_should_I_report_a_campaign
As well as the link for the support for the officers page, you should be able to report straight from here too
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Saw it posted in the comments section of one of my local new's FB posts. *sigh*
 
Orthogonal said:
I'm not saying anything about who is more credible or substantiated. There are numerous factors on why eye witness testimony should always be scrutinized. Everyone sees an event through a different prism. Things like this happen very quickly and details are easy to miss or misinterpret. People have adrenaline pumping, they may have other distractions or fear for their own safety that effects their ability to process the info. People will naturally try to fill in the gaps which they didn't fully catch, it's a natural human process and it doesn't mean they are biased or trying to push an agenda, just that the brain can fill it in and seem real to them.

It doesn't mean eye witness testimony should be ignored, just that it should come under heavy scrutiny. When there are numerous accounts, there are bound to be many contradictions between all of them, but it can be useful to look at the points of agreement between all testimony (assuming they haven't talked to each other about it and seeded idea's to one another) for a broad understanding of the situation.
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I really hope that you still feel this way the next time someone charged with a heinous crime isn't white.
 
Fiction said:
I find it really, really suspicious when people go to great lengths to discount things in order to paint the cop as an innocent victim in this case. Considering the behavior of not only the officer but the entire police force, the witness statements, the autopsy, and the suspicious complete vanishing of the officer, it's sad when people run around in circles to defend him.
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What in the world.....

No reason to get upset. Never said any of that...
 
Orthogonal said:
We still don't have a lot of the facts, but even if it wasn't fractured, the fact he was assaulted instantly escalates the situation where the cop is going to draw his weapon instead of a verbal altercation where it might have stayed put. It is all part of the context, but it's just too hard to draw any conclusions about this particular piece since we just don't have the evidence to go by. We likely won't be getting any evidence publicly until it goes to trial and they aren't going to let anything out publicly during the active investigation and grand jury proceedings. Of course it raises questions and only fuels speculation, but it's something we will unfortunately have to deal with for a while.
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The "swollen face" thing came from the ferguson police chief a week ago at the time of the robbery video release.

It's not new information and nobody thought to focus much on it, probably because of how crazy it sounds to go to the hospital over something like that, making it either look like Wilson is trying to play up the evidence, or is a big wimp that can barely handle anything. I think tons of people have taken a bump to the cheek and had it swell up a bit, and never went to a doctor because of it.

Sure it's possible that his entire face was blown up like you sometimes see with boxers and UFC fighters, but it's not hard to imagine they might play up a tiny bump on the cheek being a "swollen face" to serve a narrative. Many people, including myself, were going off the assumption that no picture means no serious injury. It being a orbital fracture changes the whole thing just as much as a picture of his face looking like a blowfish would, because it does make it become an undeniably a serious injury with no picture needed.
 
TheBryanJZX90 said:
I really hope that you still feel this way the next time someone charged with a heinous crime isn't white.
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Seriously? What is it. Why does my integrity and motivations have to be called into question by simply making a neutral and rational analysis. I guess I will steer clear of this thread for now.
 
thepotatoman said:
The "swollen face" thing came from the ferguson police chief a week ago at the time of the robbery video release.

It's not new information and nobody thought to focus much on it, probably because of how crazy it sounds to go to the hospital over something like that, making it either look like Wilson is trying to play up the evidence, or is a big wimp that can barely handle anything. I think tons of people have taken a bump to the cheek and had it swell up a bit, and never went to a doctor because of it.

Sure it's possible that his entire face was blown up like you sometimes see with boxers and UFC fighters, but it's not hard to imagine they might play up a tiny bump on the cheek being a "swollen face" to serve a narrative. Many people, including myself, were going off the assumption that no picture means no serious injury. It being a orbital fracture changes the whole thing just as much as a picture of his face looking like a blowfish would, because it does make it become an undeniably a serious injury with no picture needed.
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He's a cop that had an altercation on the job which became a crime scene. It's likely there were EMTs around and/or union reps that would persuade him to get it "checked out to make sure".

I don't think it says anything about the situation one way or another.
 
sk3 said:
He's a cop that had an altercation on the job which became a crime scene. It's likely there were EMTs around and/or union reps that would persuade him to get it "checked out to make sure".

I don't think it says anything about the situation one way or another.
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It's standard procedure to take photos of I injuries and almost essential in a case like this. If those photos existed we'd have seen them by now. They don't exist.
 
sk3 said:
He's a cop that had an altercation on the job which became a crime scene. It's likely there were EMTs around and/or union reps that would persuade him to get it "checked out to make sure".

I don't think it says anything about the situation one way or another.
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Yeah, I might have been too harsh in my possible theories, but the main thing is that I'm much less likely to jump to any conclusions with a "swollen face" than I am with a more provable and serious injury.
 
Orthogonal said:
Seriously? What is it. Why does my integrity and motivations have to be called into question by simply making a neutral and rational analysis. I guess I will steer clear of this thread for now.
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I showed your bias, you ignored it and then kept saying you're making a neutral and rational analysis.
 
Fiction said:
I am not upset. It's simply suspect when people start coming into the thread bringing forth the same 'points' that Drudge and Fox News are bringing up. Especially for those of us who've been following this since the beginning.
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I have no idea what "points" those are. Seem you have already made up your mind. People can be open minded and wait for the facts. I do not see the point to rush to judgement.

Guess you are talking about was he beat up or not. Which i think doesnt matter. Since he was not being "beat up" when he was killed Mr. Brown. Doesnt matter if he was beat up by "the hunk" or superman.....lol

The real question is what happen after he got out of the car. You cant go shoot someone if they are running away from you. Doesnt matter how "bad" they beat you up.

The thing about this story that gets me is how poor the St Louis police. No cam in car and no tasers.
 
I'm tending to believe the Brown case at this point, at least until more comes out, but that youtube video is way too far back to tell if the cop had an injury or not,

Also I think accusing people of ulterior motives is bullshit as well.
 
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